Math Sequence Question

[goldberry]

We are using Teaching Textbooks. Our plan is Alg I 9th (already doing), Alg II 10th, Geometry 11th, then Algebra at the community college senior year.

 

Teaching Textbooks recommends Alg II before Geometry.

 

Isn't it hard to go a year without Algebra while doing Geometry, then go back to Algebra? Or am I not remembering Geometry? Do they still do some algebra? Or is that just not a concern?

[Pawz4me]

May I ask where you got your info that TT recommends Algebra II before Geometry? This is the info from the FAQ section, which to me doesn't really read as a recommendation one way or another, but is simply a listing of things to consider --

 

Well, opinions on this differ. One risk of taking Geometry in between the two algebras is that the student might forget a lot of the Algebra 1 he learned during the year he spends on geometry. Also, if a student has done well with Algebra 1, why break the positive momentum?

 

On the other hand, since the PSAT has geometry on it, students who take Algebra 1 in the 9th grade may want to take Geometry in the 10th if they plan to take the PSAT in the 11th grade. You should know, however, that the purpose of the PSAT is to provide a warm-up to the SAT and to identify potential National Merit Finalists. Since there are other ways to prepare for the SAT (such as checking out a library book that contains several practice SATs), and since very few students ever become National Merit Finalists (about 2 or 3 in each large high school), the argument for taking Geometry before Algebra 2 is not overwhelming.

[goldberry]

May I ask where you got your info that TT recommends Algebra II before Geometry? This is the info from the FAQ section, which to me doesn't really read as a recommendation one way or another, but is simply a listing of things to consider --

 

 

 

Thanks, I don't remember seeing that. So what's the best way to go then, so they don't forget too much? Does anyone every break Geometry up, say 1 semester of Geometry and then 1 semester of Alg II for two years? Or is that unheard of?

[swimmermom3]

This is not the opinion of a professional math teacher, only that of a mom with three kids.

 

All of my kids have done the Algebra I then Geometry sequence. I would agree that one of the negatives of this arrangement is the lack of practice for the new Algebra skills. My youngest took a math test at his ps this last week and found that he recognized certain types of problems that were predominantly from the end of Foerster I Algebra, but wasn't always sure how to solve them. He is currently taking a Geometry course and it has been almost a year since he has seen some of those concepts.

 

The flip side of that equation is that Geometry between the two algebras allows for an extra year of maturity that I think is helpful in tackling Algebra II for the average math student.

 

My plan for my youngest, if he had not gone to ps for his freshman year would have been to do Geometry and Algebra II side-by-side, taking two years. We have talked a bit about this before on the board; I am just not sure where the links are. I had used Saxon prior to Foerster so my son is fairly comfortable with Geometry which is built into Saxon. I think presenting Geometry alone to my older kids signified that it was more difficult than it actually is.

 

I also am unsure as to the wisdom of Geometry right before Pre-calculus or whatever advanced math it is that you are going to take.

 

Sorry if this is disjointed as I am really supposed to be doing something else. :tongue_smilie: Wherever you place Geometry, I would really recommend that you keep up with Algebra practice. After my son's test, he decided that he would use the summer to review Algebra I so he felt really comfortable moving into Algebra II.

 

Math is the one subject that in a perfect world, I would teach year round. That summer gap is too long and too many skills are lost.

 

Good luck with your decision. Based on my experiences with my own kids, I am kind of opinionated about when Algebra II and Chemistry should be taught. Even six months of mental maturing can make a huge difference between struggling and seeing the light.

[Jann in TX]

It is a concern.

Geometry will only use Algebra 1 concepts. This gives you more than a full year to NOT use Algebra 2... You would have to conciously review-- and that is something that few really keep up with.

 

I did Geometry after Algebra 2 and I had to drop my Pre-Calc course because I was not current on my Algebra 2 (and I was a gifted math student)-- the Geometry text I used had Algebra review-- but it was only basic Algebra 1...). I self studied Algebra 2 again then continued my math in college.

[swimmermom3]

It is a concern.

Geometry will only use Algebra 1 concepts. This gives you more than a full year to NOT use Algebra 2... You would have to conciously review-- and that is something that few really keep up with.

 

I did Geometry after Algebra 2 and I had to drop my Pre-Calc course because I was not current on my Algebra 2 (and I was a gifted math student)-- the Geometry text I used had Algebra review-- but it was only basic Algebra 1...). I self studied Algebra 2 again then continued my math in college.

 

Jann said it far more succinctly. For my youngest, going from Algebra II to Geometry would be a backwards step in the level of challenge. Does that make sense? Again, I am addressing average experiences.

[goldberry]

Thanks for this input! I think I may go with a semester of Geometry, then Alg II for 10th, and then same thing in 11th.

 

DD and I already had a giant debate because she doesn't school in the summer, but I am going to have her do math lessons. I'm being reasonable and letting her take a day off if she has an activity that day. She is angry, but this thread makes me more sure of my decision.

[AngieW in Texas]

I think it's far more difficult for most students to do precalculus after not doing any algebra at all for one year than it is to do Algebra II after one year of limited algebra (because most geometry courses have some algebra review in them).

 

It's a lot easier to do some basic algebra review while doing geometry than it is to do algebra II review. There's just a whole lot more out there for reviewing algebra I.

 

That year of geometry between algebra I and algebra II also helps by giving students another year to mature.

 

If you are really concerned about going one full year between algebra I and algebra II, then I would do geometry and algebra II together over two years. You can switch back and forth at the end of each chapter or at the end of each week or however you choose to do it. You could even choose to do geometry every MWF and algebra II every TTh until you finished off the geometry and then do just algebra II until it's finished. That would get you further along in geometry for the PSAT that counts (October of 11th grade).

[swimmermom3]

Thanks for this input! I think I may go with a semester of Geometry, then Alg II for 10th, and then same thing in 11th.

 

DD and I already had a giant debate because she doesn't school in the summer, but I am going to have her do math lessons. I'm being reasonable and letting her take a day off if she has an activity that day. She is angry, but this thread makes me more sure of my decision.

 

 

A couple of thoughts:

 

1. You might find more continuity (?) if you devote 3 days a week to algebra and 2 days a week to do geometry over the two year period. You will still end the year with roughly half a credit each. You can move to two days a week in geometry and three days a week for Algebra II the following year to balance things out. I guess I am wondering if alternating semesters is really going to accomplish the job of keeping the algebra fresh.

 

2. The one summer I had an older child work on his math, we only worked on 5-6 problems a day. It was enough to not have the brain dump and not too much to have my son really think it was worth fighting about.