Post-Miquon, Key to Math, Long Division, etc...

[Farrar]

Lots of math questions!

 

I'm trying to figure out the next step for my 8 yo with math. Within the next couple of weeks, we will have finished both Miquon and the first Beast Academy book. Awhile back, I posted this thread and got good advice. I'm still so sad about the end of Miquon that I want to get teary. I'm really quite serious when I say I wish it would just go a little farther.

 

We are definitely going to continue Beast Academy and have the second book at the ready. It has been a good second program for us and I'm excited to have found it. I think it could easily be "enough" except that the thing that made Miquon work for us was the ability to change gears. This ds has a real aversion to mastery so juggling different things feels like a good idea for him. Miquon was perfect in that the threads made it easy to jump around. But, alas... Instead, I think we'll just have different resources.

 

I have some individual C-rod based books and I can pick bits from his brother's CWP book and from Primary Challenge Math, but that's all just bits and pieces.

 

I am pretty well sold on the idea that the Key to Math books may be a good fit for him. Here's my question though... What order would I tackle them in more or less. I assume that Fractions and Measurement would be a good opener, but someone else suggested Geometry as well? Would that be too hard or about right or what? And how about Decimals? Can it be done alongside too? I like the idea of having lots of them going at once because it would mimic the way we did Miquon.

 

Also, I feel like there is at least one big topic that he's missing. Miquon doesn't introduce long division really. It walks you up to division of three-digit numbers by single digit numbers, but it never introduces the traditional algorithm. And it's a topic that he needs more practice with anyway. Perhaps if Beast Academy 4 comes out early enough next year, that will introduce it for us? I'm wondering if there are individual resources for this topic that anyone would like to suggest? Or am I not thinking about this in the right way? I felt like Miquon let us jump around willy nilly but I could trust that the sequence would check all our boxes in the end. As we move away from that and try to recreate that atmosphere with a variety of resources, I'm concerned more about missing something.

 

Thanks! I'm trusting the Hive will have some more good advice.

[Farrar]

Also, with the Key to Math books, do you need the answer key and guide or not?

[Farrar]

Well, obviously I was too wordy. :tongue_smilie:

 

Anyone?

[wapiti]

Personally, while I think the Key to books are great for drill, I don't see them as developing concepts well (example - Key-to on division of fractions: "multiply by the reciprocal," nothing on the concept whatsoever). If you are looking for instruction on concepts, I think you'd find the Key to books a big disappointment following Miquon. On the other hand, if you need practice on procedures to complement concept instruction from another program, Key to may be great, i.e., boring, but useful. (On the boring scale, it's at the opposite end from Miquon.)

 

I think of Key to Fractions and Decimals as 4th/5th grade level. My ds did the fractions books last fall at school and I think he managed to do so without any of it actually entering his brain.

 

I get mixed up, but I think you didn't like MM? The Blue book on long division may be what you're looking for on the steps.

 

FWIW, for length comparison, in total, there are about 120 pages in both the four Key to Fractions booklets and in the two main chapters on fractions in MM5.

[nansk]

1. The Key To Books also have answer keys. I think you have to buy them separately.

2. You made a good point about the long division. Can you teach the topic on your own, based on what his brother has learnt in Singapore Maths? Or you can use Math Mammoth for that topic.

3. My dd is in SM3 and has been able to do some exercises from the first two Key To Fractions books. You are right that your 8 yo can also do the Key To Measurements book. I think Decimals can wait until Fractions is done, and Percents thereafter. I have all the Key To Books and I intend to use the Algebra and Geometry books in 5th-7th grades.

Hope that helps.

[Farrar]

I can't see this child getting into the MM again. I use it with my other son though. I think the way that MM builds concepts through practice of small steps is really great, but this kid needs to see the big picture and play around with things first. All the incrementalness won't work for him. Plus, MM really pushes mastery all the time and I think he senses that and it stresses him out. I feel the same about Singapore. And MEP didn't work for him either... I had hope, but he totally bombed out of it when I tried to use it to review concepts. It was not a happy math.

 

I've been back and forth about the Key books... I've heard a lot of people say that, but I've also heard people say almost the opposite. And I think the format may work for him. And I feel confident with the concepts that I can help him build on the conceptual end. There's nothing quite like Miquon, that's for sure. I keep wishing though...

[nansk]

If you are looking for instruction on concepts, I think you'd find the Key to books a big disappointment following Miquon. On the other hand, if you need practice on procedures to complement concept instruction from another program, Key to may be great, i.e., boring, but useful.

While that is a valid point, I found that the simple, easy, incremental practice in the Key To Fractions books gave confidence to my math-averse dd.

[wapiti]

If you can cover the concept end, and you're using Beast anyway, then the Key books might work fine, the only question being when do you alternate, since it sounds like he's wanting variety.

[nansk]

the way that MM builds concepts through practice of small steps is really great, but this kid needs to see the big picture and play around with things first. All the incrementalness won't work for him.

In that case, the Key To books may also not work for him.

...And I think the format may work for him. And I feel confident with the concepts that I can help him build on the conceptual end...

What I would suggest is that you buy just the first Key To Fractions book to try. If he does well with it, you can get the other books as he needs them.

[Farrar]

If you can cover the concept end, and you're using Beast anyway, then the Key books might work fine, the only question being when do you alternate, since it sounds like he's wanting variety.

 

Yes, that's my hope. I think my biggest fear is that there's something other than long division that I haven't thought of that we'll miss somehow. But if BA4 comes out by fall or early winter and assuming it will cover long division since that's usually a fourth grade topic, then it would be fine. I just feel uneasy about those "ifs."

[wapiti]

Speaking of incremental-ness, I confess that do skip tons of pages in MM, just not in certain sections, but in the repetitive ones - like in MM6, where ds is working now - he needs to review some things, but the amount of practice is not right for him.

 

It would be nice to have a totally streamlined program. I love that I can make MM work, but I have friends who would have a harder time trying to do that with their advanced kids. Plus it would be a lot simpler. I printed out all these pages and find myself taking them out of the binder as we go along, jumping to the chapter review, LOL. This ds (bright but still working up to what should be his correct level, i.e., underachieving) has no patience for anything, which I am planning to fix with Aops, LOL - as soon as he does a little bit more on a few topics. Factoring in two days, percents in a week, negative numbers in two days.... a lot of wasted paper, as sometimes I assign just a couple problems on a page and sometimes I assign zero.

[Farrar]

I do the same for my ds who uses MM. I find it's the set up more than anything else that intimidates my Miquon-lover. He just freezes up. With my ds who does MM, I'll be like, do this row and then I'll be like, okay, that's good, next thing. With my Miquon-lover, he gets all anxious just *seeing* those crowded pages. Oh well.

 

I put just the Key to Fractions in my RR cart... I'm just so sad that we leave Miquon behind soon. I can't say that enough.

[wapiti]

I think my biggest fear is that there's something other than long division that I haven't thought of that we'll miss somehow. But if BA4 comes out by fall or early winter and assuming it will cover long division since that's usually a fourth grade topic, then it would be fine. I just feel uneasy about those "ifs."

I don't think you'll miss anything - you're a hands-on mom deep in the thick of math curricula :). You certainly won't miss any major topic, and you can always check a scope and sequence to make sure you've added all that's necessary. If it works out that you can stay with BA all the way through, that should cover everything anyway.

[maize]

I do the same for my ds who uses MM. I find it's the set up more than anything else that intimidates my Miquon-lover. He just freezes up. With my ds who does MM, I'll be like, do this row and then I'll be like, okay, that's good, next thing. With my Miquon-lover, he gets all anxious just *seeing* those crowded pages. Oh well.

 

I put just the Key to Fractions in my RR cart... I'm just so sad that we leave Miquon behind soon. I can't say that enough.

 

 

 

We use MM in a non-sequential manner--I use the light blue series, but don't work straight through a book. Rather we do a page or two from one section, then a page or two from another. Eventually we cover the whole book. I wonder if you could use Singapore in a similar manner? The pages are nice and friendly, unlike MM. It is possible this way to skip around in topics like Miquon, but still make sure you cover everything. I clip the corner of each page we have finished so it is easy to see what has been done and what hasn't. With MM, I also cross out extraneous practice problems, or skip whole pages if they aren't necessary for a particular child.

[Lots of boys]

just wanted to say I dread the day we finsh up Miquon too :(

[Farrar]

 

 

We use MM in a non-sequential manner--I use the light blue series, but don't work straight through a book. Rather we do a page or two from one section, then a page or two from another. Eventually we cover the whole book. I wonder if you could use Singapore in a similar manner? The pages are nice and friendly, unlike MM. It is possible this way to skip around in topics like Miquon, but still make sure you cover everything. I clip the corner of each page we have finished so it is easy to see what has been done and what hasn't. With MM, I also cross out extraneous practice problems, or skip whole pages if they aren't necessary for a particular child.

 

I've done that a little with the CWP a year behind. From when I've seen the workbooks and textbooks, it feels to me like it wouldn't work super well though.

 

I wish I could make MM or MEP or SM work for this kid. If only.

[letsplaymath]

This might help with long division:

• The Cookie Factory Guide to Long Division