CountryRose Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 We plan to use Jacobs Geometry next fall for our soon to be 10th grade DD. Has anyone used the DVD's or taken classes taught by either Derek Owens or Dr Callahan? If so, would you mind sharing what you liked/disliked about your experience? I really don't want to make another expensive math mistake! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen the RD Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 We plan to use Jacobs Geometry next fall for our soon to be 10th grade DD. Has anyone used the DVD's or taken classes taught by either Derek Owens or Dr Callahan? If so, would you mind sharing what you liked/disliked about your experience? I really don't want to make another expensive math mistake! Thanks. My 9th grade dd is in her 2nd semester of geometry w/Derek Owens. She LOVES his teaching style/approach. He adds humor, history, and interesting tidbits to his lessons. She logs into his website and accesses her videos which generally cover one concept. So she might watch as many as 4 or 5 videos, but they are pretty short. I'd say she spends about 90 minutes daily doing her work. When she's finished, she scans the work and emails it to him. He does the grading, which is great for me. I think geometry is very tricky to grade, so I'd rather have his expertise. He is very personable and accommodating. I have nothing but high praise for him. I do not know anything about Dr. Callahan. HTH, Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 Thank you Jennifer! His sample videos did look good. And I'm sure I wouldn't know how to grade the proofs. :huh: But it's just SO expensive. Do you know what is the difference in using the DVD's or going through the website? We have co-op classes on Friday, so she wouldn't be able to log on that day if it's a set time. I do have to say I was impressed with his worksheets and his sample video. It was like being in an actual classroom. Hmmm, decisions decisions..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 My children have used DO Prealgebra, Precalculus, and Physics. If I were to homeschool geometry again, I'd definitely go with DO. The problem I had with teaching geometry was the grading because a proof can be written lots of different ways. DO does all the grading. Also, DO is secular (important for me), and from what I understand, Dr Callahan is not. ETA: I recently discovered that not all of DO's courses are completely secular. There is some religious commentary towards the end of the physics course. Both the prealgebra and precalculus courses we used were totally secular and so I would expect the geometry course to be secular as well--but I haven't used it so I don't know. If totally secular content is important to your family, I'd recommend asking Mr. Owens about it prior to purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 Thanks for your response Kai. That was the biggest issue for me. I've heard that grading proofs can be a challenge. So that would be a big plus for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen the RD Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Thank you Jennifer! His sample videos did look good. And I'm sure I wouldn't know how to grade the proofs. :huh: But it's just SO expensive. Do you know what is the difference in using the DVD's or going through the website? We have co-op classes on Friday, so she wouldn't be able to log on that day if it's a set time. I do have to say I was impressed with his worksheets and his sample video. It was like being in an actual classroom. Hmmm, decisions decisions..... I think he only "sells" his physical science program on DVD, so far. I think he's working on Pre-Algebra. Everything else that I'm aware of is distance learning or a live class in several Atlanta locations. You pay a $15 registration fee which gives you instant access to the site, then give him a start date. He then bills $58/month until your dc finishes the course. So if your dd finishes in 7 months then you only pay $58 X 7. You have access to the videos 24/7. They are not live courses. You see a blackboard and hear him talk/teach. Therefore, your dc can do these courses anytime, not by any set schedule. For us, that has been a perfect fit. Oh and BTW, my dd is also using the physical science program which I did purchase. It has also been great. We really love Derek; he's one of the best math/science teachers I've ever seen. Let me know if you have any other questions. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I can't speak to Geometry, but we used Derek Owens for Physics. I will add my thumbs up for him. You may read my review here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 I think he only "sells" his physical science program on DVD, so far. I think he's working on Pre-Algebra. Everything else that I'm aware of is distance learning or a live class in several Atlanta locations. You pay a $15 registration fee which gives you instant access to the site, then give him a start date. He then bills $58/month until your dc finishes the course. So if your dd finishes in 7 months then you only pay $58 X 7. You have access to the videos 24/7. They are not live courses. You see a blackboard and hear him talk/teach. Therefore, your dc can do these courses anytime, not by any set schedule. For us, that has been a perfect fit. Oh and BTW, my dd is also using the physical science program which I did purchase. It has also been great. We really love Derek; he's one of the best math/science teachers I've ever seen. Let me know if you have any other questions. Jennifer Thanks Jennifer. That's a good idea about possibly doing the course in less time to save money. I do like that she can do the lessons anytime. She has so many outside activities that having one set time for math would be hard to do. (DO should give you a discount for being a spokesperson for him.) :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 I can't speak to Geometry, but we used Derek Owens for Physics. I will add my thumbs up for him. You may read my review here. Thanks for the link. It sounds like he is really willing to go the extra mile for his students. I really like that he does the grading, has the student workbook for taking class notes, and is available to address parents concerns. I appreciate your reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 OK Ladies, I've got so really good feedback and comments about DO. Has anyone used Dr. Callahan? Any positives/negatives you can share? I appreciate all the comments so far. You ladies are awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I am also leaning toward DO for Geometry. But I also wonder how the other programs work when it comes to parents grading proofs? This includes Dr. Callahan, Math without Borders (David Chandler), AoPS, etc... Do parents just wing it when it comes to grading proofs? Although I'm not a mathematician I did well in geometry 'way back' in the day. Still, I'm not confident I could grade proofs fairly, consistently or correctly. I actually thought of asking this question in thread all its own to hear the different responses from the many parents who grade their own child's work. Maybe I will just to get a wider response. Hm... I am also not conviced at all the web based programs could grade proofs correctly such as TT or Kinetic Books, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 I am also leaning toward DO for Geometry. But I also wonder how the other programs work when it comes to parents grading proofs? This includes Dr. Callahan, Math without Borders (David Chandler), AoPS, etc... Do parents just wing it when it comes to grading proofs? Although I'm not a mathematician I did well in geometry 'way back' in the day. Still, I'm not confident I could grade proofs fairly, consistently or correctly. I actually thought of asking this question in thread all its own to hear the different responses from the many parents who grade their own child's work. Maybe I will just to get a wider response. Hm... I am also not conviced at all the web based programs could grade proofs correctly such as TT or Kinetic Books, etc... I agree with you about the web based programs' ability to grade proofs correctly. That is one big plus for choosing DO. I am really leaning toward that DO. It's quite a bit of money from our homeschool budget, but it sounds like it will be worth it in the long run. Thanks for your response Derek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I asked Dr. Callahan the question about grading proofs with his program. Here is his response: Derek, The way the text handles proofs is quite different. Instead of long proofs, they tend to be broken into stages of a though f (or however long they need to be). The result is that there is not as much confusion as you might expect. So here is how we grade. - Each problem on the test comes straight out of the book - The solutions manual is used to grade the tests. - Each problem is graded either right or wrong - not partial credit. - Any problem missed is reworked by the student for some partial credit back. The reason for this method --- you learn from your mistakes. Second benefit is that grading is easier. So, if there is that one problem that they got different from the book, then the rework is a time to look at it. If it applies, full credit should be given. At times we get parents who ask about these problems to out support line at support@askdrcallahan.com. But there is very few of those. So for you it might show up 2-3 times per the course - so very doable. Hope this helps. dwc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 I asked Dr. Callahan the question about grading proofs with his program. Here is his response: Derek, The way the text handles proofs is quite different. Instead of long proofs, they tend to be broken into stages of a though f (or however long they need to be). The result is that there is not as much confusion as you might expect. So here is how we grade. - Each problem on the test comes straight out of the book - The solutions manual is used to grade the tests. - Each problem is graded either right or wrong - not partial credit. - Any problem missed is reworked by the student for some partial credit back. The reason for this method --- you learn from your mistakes. Second benefit is that grading is easier. So, if there is that one problem that they got different from the book, then the rework is a time to look at it. If it applies, full credit should be given. At times we get parents who ask about these problems to out support line at support@askdrcallahan.com. But there is very few of those. So for you it might show up 2-3 times per the course - so very doable. Hope this helps. dwc Hmmm, correct me if I'm wrong. If I understand this right, the student just needs to memorize the problem from the book in order to pass the proof part of the test? No thinking, no logic, no other way than his way. Is this how Geometry should be taught? I thought the student was supposed to be encouraged to logically figure proofs out for him/herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Hmmm, correct me if I'm wrong. If I understand this right, the student just needs to memorize the problem from the book in order to pass the proof part of the test? No thinking, no logic, no other way than his way. Is this how Geometry should be taught? I thought the student was supposed to be encouraged to logically figure proofs out for him/herself. Well, I can say I am not thrilled with his response. It all sounds too cookie cutter and formulaic to me. Basically one correct approach exists and its the books. It also seems as though he skirted my question regarding 'how to grade proofs' when there are many possible correct answers. In the course description it also states that "This Geometry course is not proof intensive..." -- http://www.askdrcall...eometry-bundle/ Based on this I'm pretty sure it would not be a first choice for us, especially when considering the cost. I would most likely rather pay extra with DO and get a real teacher to grade the proofs. That is unless I decide to grade them myself. I am still considering both options. But DO geometry is sounding better all the time! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 Well, I can say I am not thrilled with his response. It all sounds too cookie cutter and formulaic to me. Basically one correct approach exists and its the books. It also seems as though he skirted my question regarding 'how to grade proofs' when there are many possible correct answers. In the course description it also states that "This Geometry course is not proof intensive..." -- http://www.askdrcall...eometry-bundle/ Based on this I'm pretty sure it would not be a first choice for us, especially when considering the cost. I would most likely rather pay extra with DO and get a real teacher to grade the proofs. That is unless I decide to not grade them myself. I am still considering both options. But DO geometry is sounding better all the time! ;) Yea, I think you're right! I have everything I would need to go with Dr Callahan except for the Teacher's Guide for $12 and the DVD set for $108. So I was really hoping that he woud be the one for us. However, I was leaning toward DO because I like his sample lessons, his treatment of proofs, his availability to answer student questions, having the grading done by an expert, yea he's sounding better all the time. Sometimes we have to do what's best for our children even if it does cost us more money. Thank you for helping me make my decision! I appreciate all you help. :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 OK Ladies, I've got so really good feedback and comments about DO. Has anyone used Dr. Callahan? Any positives/negatives you can share? I appreciate all the comments so far. You ladies are awesome! But I also wonder how the other programs work when it comes to parents grading proofs? This includes Dr. Callahan, Math without Borders (David Chandler), AoPS, etc... Do parents just wing it when it comes to grading proofs? Although I'm not a mathematician I did well in geometry 'way back' in the day. Still, I'm not confident I could grade proofs fairly, consistently or correctly. I actually thought of asking this question in thread all its own to hear the different responses from the many parents who grade their own child's work. Maybe I will just to get a wider response. Hm... Yea, I think you're right! I have everything I would need to go with Dr Callahan except for the Teacher's Guide for $12 and the DVD set for $108. So I was really hoping that he woud be the one for us. I'm chiming in about Callahan, since I didn't notice anyone else mention using him. Our Geometry course was bumpy, but I don't think it affected the body of instruction my son received: Jacobs on its own added Callahan tried Derek Owens changed to Teaching Textbooks Here is a summary of Callahan that I wrote almost 2 years ago (when it was fresher in my mind): I've used Dr. Callahan for geometry. My ds had no end of problems with Jacobs' Geometry because his brain just didn't think the same way, even though I could follow Jacobs just fine (he's a math kid, I'm a mom who's comfortable with math, but we just don't think alike). When we added Callahan, we were already in chapter 3 or something, and maybe it would have helped if we'd started with him in the beginning, because I felt confused. It did help when we started watching his videos on the computer, because we had more control to move around and find the right spot to start & stop. (I found them almost impossible to navigate from a DVD player.) My ds liked them. They didn't add much time to his day, and there was some humor. I "think" they added an extra teaching point on one of the more difficult-to-catch points in each lesson, but I don't know for sure since Dr. Callahan didn't really "say" that -- he just jumped in and did a couple of problems -- and I didn't really do the whole lesson with my ds. So it's a mixed review. I was glad to have them at the time, since ds gets bored with just textbooks, and they didn't weigh him down too much. I was even gladder when we heard about Derek Owens, because his videos are longer (though they take up more time and cost a little more, since it's just a monthly subscription so no re-sale of course). I did get a couple of minor things from Callahan. His explanation of how his students could correct their test for half credit is still something I use. But Derek Owens is giving you something thorough and well thought out and responsive, whereas Callahan's seemed disorganized and very, very brief. In either case, I just had to get used to correcting proofs, since I didn't want to pay for the service. It wasn't as hard as correcting some of Chemistry has been! Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I'm chiming in about Callahan, since I didn't notice anyone else mention using him. Our Geometry course was bumpy, but I don't think it affected the body of instruction my son received: Jacobs on its own added Callahan tried Derek Owens changed to Teaching Textbooks ... I did get a couple of minor things from Callahan. His explanation of how his students could correct their test for half credit is still something I use. But Derek Owens is giving you something thorough and well thought out and responsive, whereas Callahan's seemed disorganized and very, very brief. In either case, I just had to get used to correcting proofs, since I didn't want to pay for the service. It wasn't as hard as correcting some of Chemistry has been! Julie Thanks for this review Julie! Can you please clarify one thing? I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say either way you had to learn to correct proofs. DO corrected them for you as you mentioned. So why did you have to also correct them yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Thanks for this review Julie! Can you please clarify one thing? I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say either way you had to learn to correct proofs. DO corrected them for you as you mentioned. So why did you have to also correct them yourself? I didn't pay for Derek Owens to correct my son's work at all. It cost about half that way. I suppose I misspoke there, sorry. I do think you could completely outsource to DO, but I haven't had experience with that. My outsourcing experiences have almost always left me with thinking I want to homeschool, not be tied to someone else's judgment. However, I've had to just bite the bullet with college courses! Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeaTotaler Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 We haven't used DO Geometry but ds is currently in his Physics class and I would highly recommend him. I somehow struggled through Geometry with ds. I had a friend (former engineer) check his proofs if I wasn't sure about something. However, in hindsight, I should've outsourced it to DO. We are going through Alg 2 on our own but i plan to outsource PreCalc next year in 10th, most likely with DO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 I'm chiming in about Callahan, since I didn't notice anyone else mention using him. Our Geometry course was bumpy, but I don't think it affected the body of instruction my son received: Jacobs on its own added Callahan tried Derek Owens changed to Teaching Textbooks Here is a summary of Callahan that I wrote almost 2 years ago (when it was fresher in my mind): I've used Dr. Callahan for geometry. My ds had no end of problems with Jacobs' Geometry because his brain just didn't think the same way, even though I could follow Jacobs just fine (he's a math kid, I'm a mom who's comfortable with math, but we just don't think alike). When we added Callahan, we were already in chapter 3 or something, and maybe it would have helped if we'd started with him in the beginning, because I felt confused. It did help when we started watching his videos on the computer, because we had more control to move around and find the right spot to start & stop. (I found them almost impossible to navigate from a DVD player.) My ds liked them. They didn't add much time to his day, and there was some humor. I "think" they added an extra teaching point on one of the more difficult-to-catch points in each lesson, but I don't know for sure since Dr. Callahan didn't really "say" that -- he just jumped in and did a couple of problems -- and I didn't really do the whole lesson with my ds. So it's a mixed review. I was glad to have them at the time, since ds gets bored with just textbooks, and they didn't weigh him down too much. I was even gladder when we heard about Derek Owens, because his videos are longer (though they take up more time and cost a little more, since it's just a monthly subscription so no re-sale of course). I did get a couple of minor things from Callahan. His explanation of how his students could correct their test for half credit is still something I use. But Derek Owens is giving you something thorough and well thought out and responsive, whereas Callahan's seemed disorganized and very, very brief. In either case, I just had to get used to correcting proofs, since I didn't want to pay for the service. It wasn't as hard as correcting some of Chemistry has been! Julie Oh no Julie! Don't tell me correcting Chemistry is hard! DD will be taking that in the fall too! :willy_nilly: (Deep breath.) I think I can, I think I can. At least she will be doing the Chem labs with a co-op group. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Well we did it! I enrolled my DD in Derek Owens Geometry. Will give an update in a few days and let you know how it's going. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Well we did it! I enrolled my DD in Derek Owens Geometry. Will give an update in a few days and let you know how it's going. :) Cool, CountryRose! I really look forward to hearing how this goes. I think this may be ds12's first class online. Thanks for reporting back. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Hi Guys, Just wanted to report back and let everyone know how the Derek Owens' Geometry classes are going. We weren't able to start in July as planned. My DD got a new laptop computer this summer which has Windows 8. Mr. Owens had to reformat(?) the videos so that she could view them on her computer. Mr. Owens rocks! He bends over backwards to accommodate his students. My DD who hates math, loves his classes. He makes Geometry easy for her to understand and if she does have a question he responds to his emails in an acceptable amount of time. I plan to use him for the rest of her high school math classes. Our DD will be very well prepared for college math classes! Thank you to everyone who replied to this post! I really appreciate all of your feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Oh no Julie! Don't tell me correcting Chemistry is hard! DD will be taking that in the fall too! :willy_nilly: (Deep breath.) I think I can, I think I can. At least she will be doing the Chem labs with a co-op group. :glare: Just don't try to correct it and then an advanced math at the same time. Take a break between the two otherwise vision impairment or sanity loss may occur. (Ask me how I know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Candid, I have really lucked out this year. I'm using Derek Owens for Geometry. He teaches, grades the homework and tests, and is there to answer any questions that my DD has about her Geometry lessons. For Chemistry, she is doing a co-op class. Her teacher has a degree in Chemistry and grades the lab notebook, conducts the lab classes, and gives and grades the test. She is also available at a local college on Wednesdays if the students need extra help. My DD made a 98% on her first test. Wow, I think I'll just sit back with a nice tall glass of iced tea and a good book! Who would have thought high school would be so easy? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRose Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Candid, I have really lucked out this year. I'm using Derek Owens for Geometry. He teaches, grades the homework and tests, and is there to answer any questions that my DD has about her Geometry lessons. For Chemistry, she is doing a co-op class. Her teacher has a degree in Chemistry and grades the lab notebook, conducts the lab classes, and gives and grades the test. She is also available at a local college on Wednesdays if the students need extra help. My DD made a 98% on her first test. Wow, I think I'll just sit back with a nice tall glass of iced tea and a good book! Who would have thought high school would be so easy? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Candid, I have really lucked out this year. I'm using Derek Owens for Geometry. He teaches, grades the homework and tests, and is there to answer any questions that my DD has about her Geometry lessons. For Chemistry, she is doing a co-op class. Her teacher has a degree in Chemistry and grades the lab notebook, conducts the lab classes, and gives and grades the test. She is also available at a local college on Wednesdays if the students need extra help. My DD made a 98% on her first test. Wow, I think I'll just sit back with a nice tall glass of iced tea and a good book! Who would have thought high school would be so easy? :) I outsourced physics to Mr. Owens this year: I still have Calculus, but I think I can handle that without climbing the walls like last year with Chemistry and Pre Calc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Thanks for this review Julie! Can you please clarify one thing? I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say either way you had to learn to correct proofs. DO corrected them for you as you mentioned. So why did you have to also correct them yourself? I thought I'd add to this. I just signed DD up for DO Geometry because she is struggling in her honors class and I think she needs more instruction. I just heard back from them when I emailed for clarification. They do not grade the exercises from the textbook. For each section in the book there are additional homework problems that you print from the website, averaging about 10 points each, kind of like a quiz. You send those in and they correct those for part of the students grade, to be combined with the tests. The parent still needs to grade the exercises from the book so you still need to learn to correct proofs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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