Still trying to understand test scores

[cdwise]

We recently did a full neuropsych eval and finally got results. His WISC scores show 95th % in perceptual reasoning and 9th % in processing speed. We're planning to go to public school next year, and so I'll have to do an IEP. As I understand it he would need to score in the 98th% to be considered gifted. And I'm not sure about the low end. Does anyone know the cut off scores or percentiles for special education? FSIQ is 108 while GAI is 117. I think these mean average to above average intelligence. Is he 2e? Is he just learning disabled? Is he actually NOT learning disabled, but my expectations for him are too high? I'm still having trouble attaching meaning to his test scores.

[brownie]

I think 9% would usually qualify for an ADHD diagnosis. At least 5% did for us. If so, the neuropsych could have given you that diagnosis. There is some disagreement beyond that. Some people will consider a significant enough gap (maybe 2 standard deviations) between GAI and any other component to be a learning disability but it's not agreed upon. The ADHD is probably your best bet at getting an IEP. Brownie

[Tokyomarie]

The 9th %ile processing speed is a huge difference in comparison to the 95th %ile in perceptual reasoning. However, the WISC-IV alone should not be used to make diagnoses. The profile that emerges when the WISC scores are put together with achievement tests and tests that measure auditory skills, visual skills, visual/motor integration, memory, and learning is what is important.

 

Since the tests for processing speed rely on abilities with a paper and pencil, if there are visual/motor integration difficulties and/or difficulties with the physical aspect of handling a pencil, that will lower scores.

 

Did the examiner do any computer-based tests for ADHD?

 

What conclusion did the evaluator come to as to the meaning of the score spread on the WISC-IV? What were his overall conclusions?

 

I will say, in my state, scores that are at or below the 9th %ile are definitely noticed by school evaluators.

[cdwise]

We actually have a diagnosis of dyslexia, dysgraphia and Asperger's. I'm just trying to understand which test scores measure that. Maybe what I'm trying to understand is the severity or where he fits in relation to other kids with learning disabilities.

[Tokyomarie]

We actually have a diagnosis of dyslexia, dysgraphia and Asperger's. I'm just trying to understand which test scores measure that. Maybe what I'm trying to understand is the severity or where he fits in relation to other kids with learning disabilities.

 

 

Skilled reading requires strong function in these areas: phonological/phonemic awareness, decoding/phonics, fluency, vocabulary, and reading comprehension strategies. The first three are foundational to being able to correlate oral language to print language. These are some tests which are indicators of skill in these areas:

 

Phonological/phonemic awareness: CTOPP, LAC-3

Decoding/phonics: tests which emphasize single word reading such as "Word Reading" and "Pseudoword Decoding" on the WIAT-3; dictated spelling tests assess phonics encoding, which is part of this skill set

fluency: made up of accuracy and rate, tests like the GORT-5 assess this function

Vocabulary- not strictly a reading function, but as students progress through the grades, vocabulary development suffers when there is a lack of exposure to print, especially if the child is not read aloud to from good literature. Various tests assess receptive & expressive vocabulary (ie Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test, the Vocabulary section of the WISC-IV)

Reading Comprehension is dependent upon all of the above, plus vocabulary and a knowledge of sentence and paragraph structure (Reading Comprehension on WIAT-3, Passage Comprehension on WJ-III, and others- older children should be assessed a sentence, paragraph, and essay levels)

 

Besides these functions, many dyslexic students also have difficulty with quick letter, number, and or word retrieval which will influence their ability to read fluently. Rapid Naming tests (included in the CTOPP and RAN/RAS) assess these skills.

 

Dysgraphia is a fairly broad category. Tests for visual-motor integration (such as the Beery-Buktenica VMI) coordination (such as pegboard tests), copying & memory (such as Rey Complex Figure Test) combined with language output tests such as oral expressive language testing and sentence and paragraph composing tests (on the WJ-III, WIAT-3, and TOWL) give details on written output difficulties. They help us understand to what degree the output difficulties are related to physical handwriting difficulty vs. language output difficulty.

 

Tests of social perception and social language are part of an evaluation for Aspergers. Higher level receptive and expressive language functions (such as those required for literature analysis) are dependent upon social perception and may be depressed.

 

In general, greater discrepancies between oral language ability and written language ability indicate greater difficulties due to dyslexia. Processing speed and working memory scores at the very low end also indicate that the student will have greater difficulties with traditional academic tasks because it takes them more time to complete their work with greater effort and they are more likely to have difficulty with traditional memory tasks, even when they have strong problem solving skills.

 

The further below the 40th %ile a test score falls, the further behind the child's age peers one is functioning. Even when there are few scores that fall below the 25th %ile, when there are a lot of scores that fall below about the 45th percentile, combined with quite a few scores that fall above the 90th %ile, the discrepancies between the highs and the lows mean that the child will likely suffer from a lot of frustration in various tasks. He'll be more aware of his difficulties and his inability sometimes to carry out a task he can envision in his mind.

[Tiramisu]

I love Marie's post.

 

I will add that we had some significant differences among scores on the WISC (99th%ile down to 6th%ile)--a few years ago we only did the WISC without any other tests. It took until we did the full neuropsych evaluation last year that included some of the tests that Marie referred to, which are used to diagnose dysgraphia, for us to find out we are dealing with visual and visual-motor issues. It really helped explain why some scores on the WISC were so low. Ironically, people here pointed out that the low test scores were in areas that relied heavily on vision, but I thought, "Her vision is fine." Duh.

 

This time around the NP decided not to do a full IQ test at all. I don't know if she was cutting corners or if she thought the visual and visual-motor weaknesses impacted the scores to such a degree that they weren't really valid. At our initial consultation she said she wouldn't have even have given us a GIA based on what she saw on the earlier WISC, much less a FSIQ. I'm throwing this out there because dd doesn't technically qualify for a dyspraxia diagnosis but still has enough trouble in those area to really affect the WISC scores. I can only imagine what this would mean for someone with true dysgraphia/dyspraxia.

[cdwise]

 

The further below the 40th %ile a test score falls, the further behind the child's age peers one is functioning. Even when there are few scores that fall below the 25th %ile, when there are a lot of scores that fall below about the 45th percentile, combined with quite a few scores that fall above the 90th %ile, the discrepancies between the highs and the lows mean that the child will likely suffer from a lot of frustration in various tasks. He'll be more aware of his difficulties and his inability sometimes to carry out a task he can envision in his mind.

Thank you for this, and for all of your explanation. The neuropsych went over it with us via skype, and it's still hard for me to process the information. I've never done public school or had experience with special ed so trying to get mentally ready for next year, I'm going over and over these numbers and not so sure what they mean. But the 40% and under 25% help a lot. He has lots of subtest scores under the 25%ile.

 

I still have a lot of feelings/issues related to the process of getting him help, and even with a neuropsych report, I still doubt whether or not I'm making his difficulties up in my head. I had so many teachers and and other well meaning people tell me things like "kids learn at different rates," "He's SO bright--you shouldn't be worried!" I'm not in denial about his disabilities, it's just I had to go through so much to finally get the diagnosis and without anyone but me thinking there was something really amiss. By 2nd grade, I just started out the year by meeting with his teachers and telling them how to teach him--that was really weird. They followed along with what I said, but didn't have much input of their own, and certainly didn't give him the help he would have needed to succeed. After the fact, they were great filling out neuropsych reports, but all of it was at my direction.

 

I've had at least three M.D.'s (two of whom were friends) totally dismiss my concerns, one even joking that I'm neurotic. Another friend who's a school administrator told me that the world needs more gardeners and I shouldn't stress out. So yeah, I'm just hoping to go into an IEP meeting with solid proof and with an ability to back up what I'm saying. Thanks everyone for the input.

[Tiramisu]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

You know your ds best and now you have the report to back you up. Because of you, your ds will get the help he needs.