S/O Talk me out of Waldorf: Art Thread

[freeindeed]

Good work for all!!!

 

BG's--totally fine--completely fulfills the assignment! The main thing for her now at this stage is just to experience a color and working with the materials. Let her continue as she is doing, with as many or as few strokes as she chooses, in a single color. I personally would try to keep her to single color work for the next few weeks at least.

 

Her composition is very interesting, with some dynamic placement of her lines and good contrast between negative (white) and positive (red) spaces. Think of it with a nice glass frame and chrome edges in a modern art museum. In fact, maybe you want to frame it and put it up in your house.

 

B--I especially liked the sky work, very dramatic with the sense of turbulence, and some white showing through is an advanced technique, good job there, the bits of red in it added something good, and I also liked the way some sky work overlapped with the sail. I also especially liked the balance between the dark and the colored part.

 

D--Nicely done flames! and I liked that they stood out most as a focal point of interest. Horizon line well placed for the subject--high as D did and appropriate for the hills and need for the bush to show, or low, gives more interest than placing it in the very center.

 

I'd like to see them work on very similar pictures over again, if they are willing.

 

But first would suggest the following for both:

 

Divide paper into 3 sections top to bottom when in portrait position by drawing line with ruler or folding. Plan to do this exercise twice (at least), once with the sections equal in size, once with each one a different size (they all go all the way top to bottom, so I mean same or different as to width), and done once where the paper will be kept in portrait position when working with it, once with it turned to landscape.

 

In each section there will be 2 primary colors, starting with only one at the top and another at the bottom and then blending them as the meet in the middle. So, for example, one section will have red at one end, blue at the other and they will blend into violet in the middle with more red violet as it goes toward the red side and more blue violet as it goes toward the blue side. There will also be a section with red at one end and yellow at the other, and a section with blue at one end and yellow at the other. So the end result will have each primary color used twice, and each secondary color will appear once with a gradual blend in each direction going toward the primary colors that make it.

 

If this seems like it would be too hard to do all at once on one sheet of paper, use 3 separate sheets to do each of these blends.

 

Experiment with how much wetness and how much paint it takes to get a good effect (perhaps make one of the 2 with less paint for a more pastel look as on D's picture, and one with much more heavy amount of paint, perhaps even more and darker that on B's picture. Which direction feels easiest to work? Does it work best to make brush strokes parallel to the end of the paper, or toward the center where the paints will blend? You will need to figure out how to feather out one color into white from each direction, or how to blend into the color coming from the opposite direction. How does this feel? Does it work better to start with a lighter color (yellow) and then do the darker one (red or blue) or the other way around, or does it not matter?

 

 

And at the end look at them in different directions and from different distances to see how the blends look. If the single divided paper method was used, compare the effects of the sections being different sizes versus all the same size.

 

Work carefully. This can produce a very attractive result if well blended and if the lines between sections are kept straight, but it is hard to do it well. It may take more than one week, and they may want to do it more than just twice, either now, or return to it in a few months or so.

 

BTW, you can also do a similar exercise to create personal color wheels, which can then be put up to use for considering what color to use where on future pictures. Personal color wheels do not have to be perfectly round, or even round at all, just show the pure colors of the paints you have and how they blend from one to another.

-------------------

 

Do you have any tissue paper--the sort that is for art or gift wrapping and is a bit stiff, with bright colors but a bit translucent, not the stuff one wipes noses on? It might come in use.

 

We tried the exercise with folding the paper in three parts (for D and B.) They both did sunset scenes. For BG, I just let her paint a few strokes as she wished. Then the next day I just let them all paint freely, and they enjoyed both exercises. :) Here is the link: http://freeindeed-redkitchen.blogspot.com/2013/04/homeschooling-life-and-mini-vacation.html

Thank you again for doing this, Pen. Also, when we get our tax refund, I am going to purchase some beeswax so BG can start molding it. Can't wait!

[Pen]

We tried the exercise with folding the paper in three parts (for D and B.) They both did sunset scenes. For BG, I just let her paint a few strokes as she wished. Then the next day I just let them all paint freely, and they enjoyed both exercises. :) Here is the link: http://freeindeed-re...i-vacation.html

Thank you again for doing this, Pen. Also, when we get our tax refund, I am going to purchase some beeswax so BG can start molding it. Can't wait!

 

 

With BG, again, just continue exploring single colors is good.

 

For D and B for the next week and a few beyond that, I'd suggest continuing to work on color blending. Try to work toward a very gradual blend, such as in the photo of sky and water, where the sky looks very blue toward the top of the page, and then graduates into almost white in the distance (downward on the page), or where the water looks blue-grey in the distance, and then blends in a gradual way into a brownish look toward the shore ( I mean on your own photos of the week). There is not a line of change, but rather a subtle transition, and this is a frequent thing that is copied in painting. In any case, the ability to do it, requires much mastery of paint, paper, and brush, and so makes it a useful exercise toward much else, even if they never would want to make such a picture.

 

If using all the primary colors, this week, maybe try for a more subtle sky/sunset. Try to make the blending as fluid as possible, gradual transitions (gradients) from one color to next, try not to make it look like color stripes.

 

 

Next week, maybe try a rainbow, where the only colors on palette/in jars are yellow, blue, red, and the rest get blended from those via the painting work they do on the paper. Try to mainly achieve the rainbow effect on the paper, where the only colors on palette/in jars are yellow, blue, red, and the rest get blended from those via the painting work they do on the paper. There is usually a somewhat gradual change (gradient) to get between those primaries, which generally passes through the orange and green secondary colors, and then usually there is a purple to indigo down at the bottom...

[Pen]

PS A bit of D's sunset in the blue part started to get into some more of the blended look as did some of the oranges part, but could go farther with that working on control and gradualness. It is true that in real sunsets, there are sometime clear lines of color, but this is more an exercise, not so much trying to make a picture--sort of like scales for music.

 

Only the top of B's seahorse picture shows, where there is only blue and blue green, but that has the blended look. What are the colors you are using? Where B has yellow and blue overlapping in his main picture it looks muddy rather than green, but maybe that is the way it come through via computer. Did it look green in real life? Similarly the red & blue seem dark, but not purple. ???? If the pigment colors won't actually blend to form the secondary colors, then this exercise will not work properly. Maybe you could try yourself and see if you can get a good green and purple from your primaries.

[Pen]

http://painting.about.com/od/colourtheory/ss/blending-paint-colors.htm shows colors blended--probably oil or acrylic--but to give an idea

[Pen]

http://painting.about.com/od/colourtheory/ss/blending-paint-colors.htm shows colors blended--probably oil or acrylic--but to give an idea

[Pen]

http://painting.about.com/od/colourtheory/ss/blending-paint-colors.htm shows colors blended--probably oil or acrylic--but to give an idea

[Pen]

http://painting.about.com/od/colourtheory/ss/blending-paint-colors.htm shows colors blended--probably oil or acrylic--but to give an idea

[Pen]

http://painting.about.com/od/colourtheory/ss/blending-paint-colors.htm shows colors blended--probably oil or acrylic--but to give an idea

[Deee]

Hi Pen,

I haven't forgotten, and your efforts are not wasted, Im just away from the internet for a little while (staying at my mother's - a tech-free zone!). Thank you for the colour wheel instructions - they are just what I needed! We're on school holidays this week, but will do the colour wheel next week and I'll report back. FWIW, I have both stockmar sets: 3 and 6 colours.

D

[Pen]

Sorry about the double posts. Thought it was not going and kept trying again.

 

Look forward to reports, Deee!

 

Thinking about rainbow--the positive thing about it is that B and D seem to want to paint some actual thing, not abstract colors. Problem as I was thinking about it is that the last colors on bottom, violet and indigo cannot be done by blending two primaries on either side...one would have to at least put an extra band of red to work from. Indigo doesn't usually mix from the basic primaries at all--but oddly, where B had overlapped red and blue, as it came through on my computer it did look quite indigo.

 

I don't know, maybe they could try a blended color wheel themselves.

[freeindeed]

Thank you, Pen. We have had a crazy week this week, so we will try these new ideas next week.

[Pen]

Here's a link to some pictures that have blending Waldorf style (it is fairly basic to all sorts of styles from classical to impressionism to current day abstract). If it is the same for you as for me, the top 4 at left show different things that can be done with blending (sky/hills/fir trees in close to a rainbow of colors; to sky/water/mountains in mainly blue tones) 3 down from right shows a color wheel--done on the whole page without the colors labeled as a reference tool.

[Pen]

If the link does not work, what I did was google "Waldorf Watercolor" and the top choice was Images.

[Pen]

This, for painting examples, also seems to have a lot: for general in all media: http://www.waldorfto...allery/main.php Sometimes something to look at can help give ideas--even without direct copying as in a Waldorf class, it might help give ideas for Bug, Doodle or other people trying this out.

[freeindeed]

OK, Pen, don't give up on us! We didn't paint this past week, either. But this coming week, I promise we will!!!

[Pen]

As the weather is turning warm, we are not doing much here... Maybe it is best for other times of the year?

 

If you want an art appreciation to go along with the work on color blending, you might want to look at almost any Vermeer replica--the light that he is famous for has much subtle blending, and then for a very different time and style, at a Marc Chagall painting which depicts Noah and a Rainbow (the rainbow is done in white, but there is color and color blending in most of the rest of the painting). I cannot recall the name (in fact never knew it in English) but it has both Noah and Rainbow in it in the language I did run into it in.

[freeindeed]

We got back to painting this week. :hurray:

We painted rainbows. Here's the link. Scroll down through the pics and you'll see it: http://freeindeed-redkitchen.blogspot.com/2013/05/homeschooling-and-life-may-6-10-2013.html

[freeindeed]

We painted again this week. We are REALLY enjoying it! Here's the link: http://freeindeed-redkitchen.blogspot.com/2013/05/may-20-26-2013.html

[TraceyS/FL]

We painted again this week. We are REALLY enjoying it! Here's the link: http://freeindeed-re...20-26-2013.html

Can i just say I love the pics of Doodles with her face covered. It makes my life seem so normal! :p

 

I'm looking forward to starting some painting here in the coming weeks - I think we might try some tomorrow as a holiday treat!

[freeindeed]

Can i just say I love the pics of Doodles with her face covered. It makes my life seem so normal! :p

 

I'm looking forward to starting some painting here in the coming weeks - I think we might try some tomorrow as a holiday treat!

 

 

Ah, yes, the joys of preteen girls. ;)

[stripe]

I finally got the book from the library. My first impression was that it looked totally awesome and I could never implement it. Sigh. I think I should send my kids to art classes.

[Pen]

Some of you might be interested in this Coursera class.

[silver]

We started out today with the yellow lesson. I tried it out as well. Mine is on the right, my son's is on the left. I'm pretty sure I didn't soak the paper long enough. I was too afraid of making the paper fall apart, but I don't think the paint spread as well as it's supposed to (making the brush strokes more obvious). I'll soak the paper longer next time.

 

our paintings

(please ignore my dirty rug)

[freeindeed]

We started out today with the yellow lesson. I tried it out as well. Mine is on the right, my son's is on the left. I'm pretty sure I didn't soak the paper long enough. I was too afraid of making the paper fall apart, but I don't think the paint spread as well as it's supposed to (making the brush strokes more obvious). I'll soak the paper longer next time.

 

our paintings

(please ignore my dirty rug)

 

You both did a great job!

Here's the link to ours from this week (scroll to the end of the post): http://freeindeed-redkitchen.blogspot.com/2013/05/homeschooling-and-life-may-28-may-31.html

[Pen]

I was able to make Stripe and Freeindeeds last week pictures come up. Maybe on a less busy internet day I'll be able to get Free's newest ones.

 

I'm feeling stymied wanting to write the right thing from a Growth Mindset point of view. Is "Great Job, All of You!" okay? Or is it the wrong sort of thing in re Growth Mindset comments?

 

How about, "Keep on working at it and also having fun with it!" The "really enjoying it!" is great!"

 

and also "You will get a feel for the amount of water by doing it a number of times. At different times you may want different effects, so to experiment and see what leads to what is helpful, and if you have a high quality paper it is hard to make it fall apart, even if you soak it for a good 10, maybe 15, minutes or so. Different paper will take water differently. Different brushes will hold paint differently too. And wet on dry is also an important technique. "

 

or suggestion? "Try different directions also, for example, having the yellow at the top and stroking downward, or stroking horizontally, and you can also use the brush to add extra plain water if you want to. It is not necessarily bad to have obvious brush strokes. You may want that look. In any case, the more you do it, the more you will gain control and be able to get what effect you do want. But art is often a combination of the planned and the accidental."

 

Or ideas that go beyond the book such as: "You are also not limited to just a brush, for example, you can use other materials like a paper shop rag or a plastic bag and see what effect you get with those if you rub them on the paper or push down and lift off. "

 

Please let me know what sort of comments, if any, are helpful in re Growth Mindset or otherwise.

[freeindeed]

The kids and I appreciate the encouraging words. We also appreciate the thoughts you give us on ways to explore different techniques and improve our painting.

[silver]

All of those comments are good. :) The reassurance that I won't destroy the paper by soaking it and that brush strokes are okay. The suggestions are also helpful. I hadn't thought about using just water on the brush to help make the gradient. Reading it all makes me want to paint again right now!

[birchbark]

Sorry to bump this old thread, but since I mentioned using tempera paints for watercolor earlier, I thought I'd better pop back in and report. Don't bother with tempera. We tried it, and it stains! Stick with real watercolors. :)

[silver]

Resurrecting this thread. We took a break for a long time because art on Friday means that art gets dropped when we're traveling or when there are doctor or dentist appointments.

 

Anyway. We tried to do a yellow and blue makes green mix on the wet paper project today. We got good gradients on both the yellow and blue. But the middle. Eh. It's more gray than anything. I think I used the wrong blue perhaps (I'm sure anyone who has tried mixing paint knows that some colors just don't mix well). But I'm wondering if I'm just not getting this wet-on-wet process. Are there supposed to be puddles of water on the paper? Or is it just supposed to be drippy wet? Or less than that? I find my paint doesn't spread very much on the paper. Is that related to the paint or the paper or both? Were we not supposed to do gradients and instead supposed to do a bright wash of yellow on most but not all of the paper, followed by a bright wash of blue?

 

At least my son enjoys painting without my instruction with his crayola water colors. I just feel like I'm not doing this wet on wet painting guidance any justice.

[silver]

I have been making sure there are no puddles, but our work doesn't look like the grapes from your link. Maybe we need wetter brushes. I think we may try again next week since we won't be doing as much "normal" school.

[silver]

I don't have fancy stockmar paints or anything. But I do have watercolor paint from a tube (which is what we use for wet on wet, the crayola paint is the "just for fun" paint). I put some in a baby food jar and mix with water so that it isn't a gooey solid. Should it be 1/2&1/2 water and paint? Because I tend to have more paint than water.

 

For colors, we used ultramarine blue and medium yellow. They yellow looks good, I'm thinking the blue is the problem. But the other blue we have is a deeper/darker blue.

[Pen]

I tried to make a reply but it got erased so I'll try again, but shorter in case it happens again. You probably want more water than paint in your mix. It should be opaque but quite liquid for the wet on wet Waldorf-ish type work.

 

Yes, you do need to have the paper so it is not puddly. I like to smoothe outward from the center using my hands on a "shop rag" (like a heavy duty reusable paper towel) which both soaks up excess water and also gets rid of ripples or bubbles.

 

You need your primary colors to form a triad, that is to be equidistant as around a color wheel--at hue intervals of 60 degrees.  Ultramarine blue may be closer to ultramarine violet than to a blue that would be at 60 degrees from your yellow, thus the ultramarine blue you have may be closer to directly opposite your yellow in hue or in other words a complementary or near complementary color which will indeed result in a neutral when the two are mixed (a grey or muddy color).  If it makes a neutral you like, make a note of that for future reference, and try for a different set of primaries to get ones that are triads and where mixing them will yield the secondary colors of green, orange, purple.  For starters, try your other blue and see what happens.  You could try just a dab from the tubes mixed on a palette to see what color you will get before you do a whole watercolor with them.

 

If that sounds too complicated you might try to buy a set of three paints where it as been worked out for you in advance that you will be getting hues that form a primary triad and where the chemicals and pigments are known not to do anything funny and unexpected when mixed.

[Pen]

"Windsor" or phthalocyanine blue are sometimes tube paint names for blues that work as primary to a yellow that looks to your eye like a basic yellowy yellow. But it can vary a lot from company to company which color names actually will fit to make triads. 

 

Complementary colors like blue and orange when mixed give the grey or muddy colors.

[Pen]

Colors that are sort of not quite complementary but also not in a triad will tend to give various earthy variants on neutrals, and many interesting colors can be found by mixing such combinations--but not the pure secondary type green that one thinks one will get if one mixes yellow and blue.  If one is closer to the triad then the complement, then one can get some interesting variants on the secondary colors like more yellowy greens, or more blue greens for example.

[silver]

Okay. So I'm doing fine with the paper (we haven't had puddles and our paper has been smoothed with a sponge). I need more water with the paint. And I should try a different blue/yellow combo. Good to know because we're going to try this one again today.

[silver]

"Windsor" or phthalocyanine blue are sometimes tube paint names for blues that work as primary to a yellow that looks to your eye like a basic yellowy yellow. But it can vary a lot from company to company which color names actually will fit to make triads. 

 

Complementary colors like blue and orange when mixed give the grey or muddy colors.

 

It was the blue! When I choose which blue to use, I had relied on the label color and the fact that a waldorf mama blog had recommended ultramarine. I went on the website for the company that makes the paint we have and was able to find what they sell as a triade. Well, the correct blue to use has a label that makes it almost look purple. But it paints as more of a turquoise (or the cyan of printer ink). I had my son paint yellow on 2/3 of the paper and the new blue on 1/3. Then I had him mix them together and he immediately said, "Green!" Before he was not sure what to even call the color he got in the middle of his paper.

 

Thank you for your help!

 

ETA: Looking at our previous work, we had been using the "correct" blue before. But then we took such a long break in painting that I had to mix up new paints and I used the wrong one last week. I've now marked the tubes that are the correct triade so that I won't make that mistake again.

[Pen]

In Stockmar, for typical Waldorf-ish watercoloring, "ultramarine blue" is often used as part of a primary triad. But it is not necessarily the same as what has same name in your set, and the Stockmar yellow may also be different than your yellow.  Different artists may work out different triads they like to use, and it can give a unique flavor to their work, especially if they choose a group where each color is a bit off from what we usually think of as "primary" red, yellow, blue.

[birchbark]

I put some in a baby food jar and mix with water so that it isn't a gooey solid. Should it be 1/2&1/2 water and paint? Because I tend to have more paint than water.

 

Ah yes. The ratio. Can someone comment on this? I have bottled watercolors similar to Stockmar. (The "Stone" brand from Paper Scissors Stone.)  And can you save the mixed watercolors for future use?

[silver]

I had watched a video in hopes of being able to tell what the ratio/consistency should be. The lady in the video made a larger jar of water/paint and poured a smaller amount to use for the session into another jar. She said she puts the larger jar into the fridge and that it keeps for a while.

[Pen]

I don't know about the Stone brand. With Stockmar, I can pour some water into a small ( pint size or roughly same metric size) canning jar or similar container--say about 1/3 up or a little less with water, and then dip a 1" or so brush into the Stockmar bottle and transfer small amounts of paint till I get the consistency I want. It does not take a lot of paint, but because that is the way I have always done it, I cannot give any information on exact ratios. I would say not more than 3 brush dips about half way up the brush and then swirled out into the water is the maximum needed. I am not actually sure there is an exact ratio because the feel of what one wants will also depend on opacity of final painting desired, how wet or dry the paper is, how absorbent or not the brushes are and so on. Even with the liquid paint, for us it is a lot more water than paint.

 

I have never had the paint go bad even without refrigerating it (but we are in a cool climate so maybe that would be different elsewhere) sooner than it has been all used up or has gotten its colors so mixed that new is needed.

 

When using a palette I use a 1/4" brush and dab a single stroke of color into each color well to work with from there, reloading only when the color runs out.

[Pen]

Adding: When I use watercolors my own choice is for a fairly transparent result that I can layer to get more intense color. I am not trying to have watercolors come out looking thick and opaque like oil, acrylic or tempera paints would.  But that is a personal choice.  Some people use watercolor thick enough that it comes out looking a lot like oils.