Assigning a Spanish grade based on hours

[Shelly in VA]

My high school aged teens have been learning Spanish with Tell Me More for the past 2-3 years. I have pretty much just let them work for a set amount of time daily, then I occasionally have them take a progress test to make sure that they are trending upward in level. That worked well, until this year for dd18 (a senior). Her progress test scores were pretty flat through the fall, and she told me that she was doing her Spanish, but that the difficulty of the tests varied, so she wasn't concerned with the scores. After a while, though, I stopped buying her excuses :o, especially as ds16 has scores that are continuing to advance through the TMM levels. A month or so ago, I asked dd to show me her planner, and it turns out that she has only been doing Spanish ~2x/week, while telling me she was doing it nearly daily. In her planner, she tracks time spent on Spanish, and I had previously told the kids that we would roughly follow Carnegie units with the Spanish, so that ~135 hours over the course of the year would be considered a full year of work. So, here we are, 3/4 of the way through the year. She should have ~100 hours, and she has only logged 60. :cursing:

 

So - how do I reflect this on her transcript? Do I give her a D for the fall semester? Do I let her double up and then adjust the grade depending on where she ends up? And, if I do that, is there a standard formula for converting hours to grades? I'm thinking along the lines of 135 hours is an A, 120 hours (~10% less than 135) is a B, 108 hours (~20% less than 135) is a C, 94 hours (~30% less than 135) is a D.

 

Yes, I know, totally my fault for not putting my thumb on her more through the fall. I take responsibility for that. It came about in large part b/c dh wanted me to back off and let her "own" her work more, as she is 18, and I could see his point. Although I'm not completely surprised that she did this. She has picked one subject each year of high school so far that she "forgets" to do consistently, and then she ends up dreadfully behind in that one. Not sure what that psychology is, or if I did the right thing by listening to dh telling me to back off on my first-born (he thinks it increases her perfectionist tendencies). As a first-born myself, I tend to raise my eyebrows and think, well, that's just the way it goes, deal with it. Then I feel guilty for not being a kinder, gentler mom. :crying:

 

Also, she is theoretically going to college in the fall. If she and I survive that long. Haha.

 

Thank you for your input!

[Corraleno]

So - how do I reflect this on her transcript? Do I give her a D for the fall semester? Do I let her double up and then adjust the grade depending on where she ends up? And, if I do that, is there a standard formula for converting hours to grades? I'm thinking along the lines of 135 hours is an A, 120 hours (~10% less than 135) is a B, 108 hours (~20% less than 135) is a C, 94 hours (~30% less than 135) is a D.

 

 

Grades and hours are two completely separate things. :confused1:

 

In some courses, where there is not a standard body of material that equals one credit in that subject, hours can be used to determine credit, but the grade is based on assessments. You mentioned that she takes "progress tests" — that's what the grade is based on. It makes no sense to base a grade on hours — a student who whipped through a standard HS text in 90 hours and got 100 on every test would not get a D, he would get an A. Conversely, a student who spent 140 hours with the same text and got Ds on every test would not get an A just because he spent more time.

 

Also, IMO, math and foreign language are two subjects where "1 high school credit" should represent coverage of the standard material. E.g., my DS is teaching himself Turkish using a standard college textbook; if it takes him 2 years to get through Volume 1, that's still 1 credit for Turkish 1 — I wouldn't give him 2 credits for it just because he put in more hours. He currently invests 300 or more hours for each credit in Latin and Greek (through Lukeion) — he still only gets 1 credit each year, and his grade his based on his homework and tests.

 

Jackie

[klmama]

I think Corraleno is right. You really can't give her a grade based on hours for foreign language. If she's only covered the material for half the course, that's half a credit, regardless of if it took her 60 hours or 120. Does she need another full credit for college entrance? If so, it looks like intensive Spanish time for her.

 

 

[jhschool]

You can track hours for something like Tae Kwon Do, I think.

If you put in a Carnegie Unit's worth of Tae Kwon Do I would be

fine giving an A in P.E. and giving 1 credit for it.

 

For Spanish, which is an academic subject with a body of knowledge,

I would give 1 credit when they finish the Level I book. The grade would

depend on whether they mastered the material.

 

What grade would she get if you gave the final exam now?

She might have learned tons in her 60 hours. You can give her the

grade she gets on her final exam regardless of hours, I think.

[Shelly in VA]

Thanks for the input. I guess I should have explained the Tell Me More progress tests in more detail. The TMM program doesn't give quizzes or exams over a set amount of material, or over a chapter or unit, per se. When you take a progress test, it gives you a score that shows your level of proficiency. So, for instance, my son's scores over this year have been: 2.9, 3.0, 3.3, 3.6, 3.8. He is clearly progressing through the material, and at the end of the year I expect that he will be about one grade level above where he started in the fall, so I will give him credit for one year of Spanish. My daughter's scores over that same time period, though, are 5.4, 5.5, 5.3, 5.3, 5.4. That's what I meant when I said her scores had flatlined. To me, those scores indicate that she has not progressed at all through the material. So that's the core issue, really, is that not only is she not putting in the time she should be, but that is reflected in her mastery of the material. It is more like a placement test, where at the beginning of the year she would have placed at a mid-5 level, but at the end of the year, she's still at a mid-5 level, as if she hadn't actually studied or learned anything new.

 

That's also why I looked for a non-traditional way to award a grade, because I don't have chapter tests or other measuring points.

 

Hope that explains the situation better!

[In The Great White North]

What's the range on these numbers?

[Corraleno]

My daughter's scores over that same time period, though, are 5.4, 5.5, 5.3, 5.3, 5.4. That's what I meant when I said her scores had flatlined. To me, those scores indicate that she has not progressed at all through the material. So that's the core issue, really, is that not only is she not putting in the time she should be, but that is reflected in her mastery of the material. It is more like a placement test, where at the beginning of the year she would have placed at a mid-5 level, but at the end of the year, she's still at a mid-5 level, as if she hadn't actually studied or learned anything new.

 

 

If she is still at exactly the same level she started at, and she hasn't progressed at all in the last year, then I don't see how you can give her a credit for Spanish, let alone a grade, no matter how many hours she put it. If this was an Algebra II course, and she ended the year exactly where she started, having not learned any algebra, would you still give her credit for Algebra II on her transcript, with an A because of the hours she put in?

 

If she needs the Spanish credit to graduate, I'd make her actually do the work, and set a standard (in advance) for what level she needs to be at in order to get credit. If she doesn't need it, maybe you can just drop it. However, some colleges have been known to rescind acceptances if students slack off and get poor grades in their senior year, so that's something to take into consideration as well.

 

Have you looked online for HS Spanish I & II tests that you could use to determine a grade? If you really have no way of grading her work, then I would just give a Pass/Fail grade.

 

 

ETA: The TellMeMore website says "you can access result grids demonstrating your child's progress with completed lessons, exercises & test scores, and time spent learning Spanish." Are there really no grades, or at least "percent correct" scores, for the exercises or tests?

 

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

I just spoke to someone at TellMeMore via chat, and they said there are quizzes where you can print out the results and use them for a grade. (And students can go back and retake the quizzes even if they've already gotten past that point and didn't print the quiz the first time.) They also said that there are hardcopy tests with an answer key that you can print out and grade.

 

Jackie

[kiana]

If she really hasn't progressed at all, I would not award credit. I wouldn't award an F either, just nothing. Treat it as extracurricular. Now if she suddenly starts working her butt off and progresses, then I'd award credit. But as of right now, I would say no credit.

 

If this causes issues b/c she applied to college saying she was taking Spanish, I'd give a W and say she dropped it. Essentially, she did.

[Jenny in Florida]

If she really hasn't progressed at all, I would not award credit. I wouldn't award an F either, just nothing.

 

That's how I handled a subject my son was supposed to be self-studying. He dropped the ball. I bugged him about it a few times, then just told him we were scrapping it. I'm not listing it on the transcript at all.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

I have never given a grade for number of hours.

I have given ONE grade, to be averaged with others, for completion of a text.

 

For example: during fall semester I'll sometimes set a goal to be on a page number or certain chapter at the end of the semester.

By Dec 15th read through page 500 of "xyz" book. Then on Dec 15th the %complete becomes one assignment grade that will be averaged with other assignments.

 

My kids know that is an easy 100 and can be used to balance a low grade.

 

We've used this for all foreign languages. When my dd did spanish 2, it was a hodge podge of different materials. I did take into account the number of hours and take into account an "E for Effort". Thankfully, SOS averaged grades for me.

[Shelly in VA]

I just spoke to someone at TellMeMore via chat, and they said there are quizzes where you can print out the results and use them for a grade. (And students can go back and retake the quizzes even if they've already gotten past that point and didn't print the quiz the first time.) They also said that there are hardcopy tests with an answer key that you can print out and grade.

 

Jackie

 

 

Thanks; I'm going to have to chat with them. The only "quizzes" I have found are the progress tests, and they aren't printable. Someone earlier mentioned a grid showing progress, and while there is a grid on the screen when you are working, it just shows filled in boxes when an activity or section is completed, but it doesn't show any sort of score or assessment. Maybe I have an older version??? I'll try to clear this up with a rep; I hope I have access to tests and just haven't been able to find them!

[Shelly in VA]

If she really hasn't progressed at all, I would not award credit. I wouldn't award an F either, just nothing. Treat it as extracurricular. Now if she suddenly starts working her butt off and progresses, then I'd award credit. But as of right now, I would say no credit.

 

If this causes issues b/c she applied to college saying she was taking Spanish, I'd give a W and say she dropped it. Essentially, she did.

 

 

Good advice. She does not NEED this on her transcript; the school she is attending requires 2 years of a foreign language, and she has that. They also have incoming students take a language placement test, and they start their foreign language work based on that, not on transcript credits, so while it would be in her best interest to keep up with the Spanish, if she doesn't, she'll simply start at a lower level in the fall.

 

Thanks for the suggestion to just not include it at all (if she doesn't start working). I never considered that as an option, until this weekend when we were with friends whose public school son, a college bound senior, is taking just 3 classes right now because he has dropped everything else. I was stunned; I had no idea you had the option of taking classes in high school! I guess things have changed since I was there... That said, I still want her finishing the year with a full course load; seems like the best use of her time!

 

Thanks for the input.