Anyone follow WTM history guidelines EXACTLY for 5th grade?

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I'm torn for 5th grade for next year. I think I am trying to decide between History Odyssey and following exactly what the WTM books says.

 

I think my daughter would benefit from having the checklist that History Odyssey provides, and I know I would benefit from having the resource at my fingertips, but at the same time, I wonder if we should just bite the bullet and try the WTM way. (I know I can make my own checklist for my daughter, so that she knows the routine of reading, writing down facts, finding the location on the map/globe/atlas, etc.)

 

So, if you have done the WTM way, how did it work for you? Did you miss having a curriculum? In what ways did you tweak it, if any?

 

Any tips would be extremely helpful!

[Forgiven]

:bigear:

[2_girls_mommy]

Yes, we have done it exactly as written from the 2nd edition for 5th grade this year since about Oct., with one exception. The exception for us is that on the timeline she is supposed to color code her entries (one color for political things, one for important people, etc.) and I forgot to implement that at the beginning of the year, so I decided it would be easier to introduce that at the beginning of next year. The main difference between the 2nd edition and the 3rd is that my dd is outlining directly from the KHE, not from other sources, instead of writing a list of facts from the KHE then outlining something different. It has worked great for us. I like seeing what my dd comes up with to write about for her summaries. She occasionally reads a big book on a topic and then "freezes up" and gets a bit of writer's block on what to write, but she always ends up doing a good job. She is able to write longer passages more quickly this year, so I am seeing her improve in the block area. I also like outlining directly from KHE because I don't have to go searching for different things for her to outline from. We always have it. We have also been working on memory lists directly out of WTM 5th grade too. We have the Geography Coloring Book, and it has a fair bit of reading to go along w/the history too, so I like it. So far so good.

 

I found printing out CHOLL alongside helped too. Doing history this way is a bit boring after SOTW over all of the years, and it has me less involved once the initial teaching was over. So the books from CHOLL gave her a good lit reading list to go along w/history and made it a bit more interesting. We have still done several videos on our history topics and some projects from SOTW for fun too.

[2_girls_mommy]

Oh and a checklist is easy to create. Day 1: read KHE, do the outline, enter dates on timeline, choose topic for research.

 

Day 2: at library find books, beginning reading, and do Geography coloring book

 

Day 3: finish reading and write short summary for notebook.

 

Or something like that. WTM gives a couple of breakdowns of how to do it 2 or 3 days.

[Cosmos]

redsquirrel has made some good posts on this topic. If you do an advanced search for "human odyssey WTM" and author "redsquirrel", several good threads will come up.

 

Good luck in your decision!

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Yes, we have done it exactly as written from the 2nd edition for 5th grade this year since about Oct., with one exception. The exception for us is that on the timeline she is supposed to color code her entries (one color for political things, one for important people, etc.) and I forgot to implement that at the beginning of the year, so I decided it would be easier to introduce that at the beginning of next year. The main difference between the 2nd edition and the 3rd is that my dd is outlining directly from the KHE, not from other sources, instead of writing a list of facts from the KHE then outlining something different. It has worked great for us. I like seeing what my dd comes up with to write about for her summaries. She occasionally reads a big book on a topic and then "freezes up" and gets a bit of writer's block on what to write, but she always ends up doing a good job. She is able to write longer passages more quickly this year, so I am seeing her improve in the block area. I also like outlining directly from KHE because I don't have to go searching for different things for her to outline from. We always have it. We have also been working on memory lists directly out of WTM 5th grade too. We have the Geography Coloring Book, and it has a fair bit of reading to go along w/the history too, so I like it. So far so good.

 

I found printing out CHOLL alongside helped too. Doing history this way is a bit boring after SOTW over all of the years, and it has me less involved once the initial teaching was over. So the books from CHOLL gave her a good lit reading list to go along w/history and made it a bit more interesting. We have still done several videos on our history topics and some projects from SOTW for fun too.

 

 

Thanks for the info! I like the idea of doing the outlining directly from the spine text. We will be using the Usborne one, though, so I'll have to take a look and see if it lends itself to that.

 

What is CHOLL? (I can't find the abbreviation list on the new forum.)

 

redsquirrel has made some good posts on this topic. If you do an advanced search for "human odyssey WTM" and author "redsquirrel", several good threads will come up.

 

Good luck in your decision!

 

 

I'll research that. Thanks!

[RootAnn]

Classical House of Learning (Literature?)

A WTM'er who put together several FREE lit guides to go along with SOTW. There are two separate grammar stage guides & a logic stage guide for each SOTW (at least for the ones she has done so far). Check 'em out. There's almost always something there that you can use (read aloud suggestions, book list, narration pages, etc.).

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Classical House of Learning (Literature?)

A WTM'er who put together several FREE lit guides to go along with SOTW. There are two separate grammar stage guides & a logic stage guide for each SOTW (at least for the ones she has done so far). Check 'em out. There's almost always something there that you can use (read aloud suggestions, book list, narration pages, etc.).

 

 

Wow! That's impressive! Thanks for sharing.

[mlbuchina]

Yes, we have done it exactly as written from the 2nd edition for 5th grade this year since about Oct., with one exception. The exception for us is that on the timeline she is supposed to color code her entries (one color for political things, one for important people, etc.) and I forgot to implement that at the beginning of the year, so I decided it would be easier to introduce that at the beginning of next year. The main difference between the 2nd edition and the 3rd is that my dd is outlining directly from the KHE, not from other sources, instead of writing a list of facts from the KHE then outlining something different. It has worked great for us. I like seeing what my dd comes up with to write about for her summaries. She occasionally reads a big book on a topic and then "freezes up" and gets a bit of writer's block on what to write, but she always ends up doing a good job. She is able to write longer passages more quickly this year, so I am seeing her improve in the block area. I also like outlining directly from KHE because I don't have to go searching for different things for her to outline from. We always have it. We have also been working on memory lists directly out of WTM 5th grade too. We have the Geography Coloring Book, and it has a fair bit of reading to go along w/the history too, so I like it. So far so good.

 

I found printing out CHOLL alongside helped too. Doing history this way is a bit boring after SOTW over all of the years, and it has me less involved once the initial teaching was over. So the books from CHOLL gave her a good lit reading list to go along w/history and made it a bit more interesting. We have still done several videos on our history topics and some projects from SOTW for fun too.

 

 

Based on this, I went back and read through the history sections in both editions. Does anyone know why SWB changed from just doing the outlines to doing a list of facts and then outlines?

 

Thanks for posting this explanation, 2_girls_mommy. It is so helpful to see how other's have done this.

[2_girls_mommy]

From what I understand (and this has been debated on here) the KHE went briefly OOP before the 3rd edition was printed. So it couldn't be the spine anymore. But it came back out shortly after, so I decided to stick w/the original at least for now. I have read that some texts lend themselves better for outlining as a spine, and I may look into those for later years if need be, or begin having her outline from various library books. But for the first year, KHE has been good for locating the main points for an outline

[mlbuchina]

From what I understand (and this has been debated on here) the KHE went briefly OOP before the 3rd edition was printed. So it couldn't be the spine anymore. But it came back out shortly after, so I decided to stick w/the original at least for now. I have read that some texts lend themselves better for outlining as a spine, and I may look into those for later years if need be, or begin having her outline from various library books. But for the first year, KHE has been good for locating the main points for an outline

 

 

Now that you mention it, I think I remember something about that. There was also something about differences between a white cover and an orange cover...?

 

I have the KHE and the UIHW, so I guess I will just have to look through them and see which I think she would have a better time learning it with.

 

Thanks again!!

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I have the UIHW, but not the KHE. I guess I'll either use the UIHW and do it the way it's recommended in the 3rd edition, or purchase the KHE at some point. I also really, really like the look of the CHOLL!

 

So many options!

[mlbuchina]

Correction. I have the Usborne IL Encyclopedia of World History. I looked through both of them, and the Kingfisher looks like it would be much easier to outline. Also, it seems to cover more than the UEWH. The UEWH looks like it has more of the key dates in the little boxes on the page, while with the KHE you have to get a lot of the dates from the text.

 

I really like the idea of having the outlines coming from the spine, and then writing about the picked topic from the other books. However, do you think that the idea of outlining the outside source is to prepare the student to be able to eventually write the paper from an outline?

 

Goodness! Both would work just as well as the other, I expect. I may just have dd9 look at them and pick which one she would like to use.

 

I like the looks of CHOLL, too, and have been downloading like crazy. :D

 

ETA: Comparing the two editions of WTM, I also noticed that in the current one memorization has been left out (or is not as detailed). I'm glad I have both editions, as I like the guidance for that.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I think the one I have collecting dust is the Usborne Internet-Linked Encyclopedia of World History. I got it when I purchased SOTW 1, but have never really used it. We've been working off and on at SOTW 1 for about 3 or 4 years now! We keep taking breaks and then returning to it. Now that both of my girls are a little older, they can actually do the summarizations orally to me, and it's much less frustrating! In the past it was like pulling teeth! Of course, now we're taking a break to do a US History unit study. :p

 

I definitely have my homework cut out for me trying to make a decision!

[Forgiven]

I feel like I need to get the second edition of TWTM now. I only have the third. I don't remember reading anything about memorization in the logic stage history.

 

Thanks to the OP for this thread and to the others that replied. You've all got my wheels turning. ;)

[Giraffe]

Classical House of Learning (Literature?)

A WTM'er who put together several FREE lit guides to go along with SOTW. There are two separate grammar stage guides & a logic stage guide for each SOTW (at least for the ones she has done so far). Check 'em out. There's almost always something there that you can use (read aloud suggestions, book list, narration pages, etc.).

 

Thank you! I've been downloading my little heart out!

[AMJ]

:bigear:

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but where are you all getting these wonderful icons?

 

And I'm all ears on this, too.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I think with the new format, there's an emoticon above the text box. (I'm on my phone right now.)

[mlbuchina]

I feel like I need to get the second edition of TWTM now. I only have the third. I don't remember reading anything about memorization in the logic stage history.

 

Thanks to the OP for this thread and to the others that replied. You've all got my wheels turning. ;)

 

Really, there isn't that much that is different between the two. The difference is the references to the KHE were taken out, and the list of spines to chose from was added in. Then, instead of the example of outlining from the KHW, the example of listing the important facts from the UIWH is given with outlining from an outside source put as the last step. I think the memorization was taken out because the source of the lists is in the back of the KHE. As a PP said, the KHE had gone out of print at the time of the third edition. There is a third edition of the KHE out now, so either WTM edition will work.

 

Does your library have a copy of the WTM 2nd edition? You could just get it from there and make a note of the memorization.

 

Now that I have looked at both, I'm not sure which way I want to go. :rolleyes:

[2_girls_mommy]

It is nice to compare the 2 though. There is a science thread now, so I probably shouldn't get into it in this one. But I saw a big difference in the logic stage biology suggestions. 2nd edition used several books as spines that you would use. I guess they had the science experiments in them in the way the grammar stage suggested books did. But the 3rd edition has a list of science kits and microscopes that really add up. So being able to see both ways helped me to put them together to see a bigger picture... I do like having both for history too. But I don't think it is necessary either.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

It is nice to compare the 2 though. There is a science thread now, so I probably shouldn't get into it in this one. But I saw a big difference in the logic stage biology suggestions. 2nd edition used several books as spines that you would use. I guess they had the science experiments in them in the way the grammar stage suggested books did. But the 3rd edition has a list of science kits and microscopes that really add up. So being able to see both ways helped me to put them together to see a bigger picture... I do like having both for history too. But I don't think it is necessary either.

 

I hope you replied in the science thread, too! I totally was going to go a different way for history AND science, but you all make it seem like I can do it TWTM way! :D

[2_girls_mommy]

I was nervous last year when planning this year. I read and discussed it in length here at that point and earlier this year after we began to see how others were doing it. I have found the history has been really simple to execute and effective. For example, DD just took the Exploratory Latin Exam (like a couple of hours ago LOL) and it contains a lot of geography, mythology, and Roman cultural stuff which we hadn't touched much on since 1st grade w/SOTW 1 and a bit in LCI last year, until we started WTM logic history and CHOLL ancients this year. I think just from glancing at her exam that she did well, so I think the methods work for retention as well as building skills in writing and organizing, at least for us.

[mlbuchina]

It is nice to compare the 2 though. There is a science thread now, so I probably shouldn't get into it in this one. But I saw a big difference in the logic stage biology suggestions. 2nd edition used several books as spines that you would use. I guess they had the science experiments in them in the way the grammar stage suggested books did. But the 3rd edition has a list of science kits and microscopes that really add up. So being able to see both ways helped me to put them together to see a bigger picture... I do like having both for history too. But I don't think it is necessary either.

 

 

Oh, gosh. I didn't even think about the science. Eek! I will have to go read those now, too. LOL I also need to find that science thread.

 

 

I hope you replied in the science thread, too! I totally was going to go a different way for history AND science, but you all make it seem like I can do it TWTM way! :D

 

 

I'm so glad people share how they do things and what works and doesn't for them. It really gives me things to think about that I probably wouldn't have.

[Happy2BaMom]

2_girls:

 

What supplemental history materials have you found to be necessary/helpful?

 

I have my list (compiled from TWTM 3rd ed.) here and have written down:

-DK Timelines of World History

-National Geographic Family Reference Atlas

-National Geographic Almanac of World History

-Note Taking & Outlining book

-Blank Timeline Templates

 

I understand everyone has their own preferences, but if someone else can do history without all of the above (it gets expensive!), I'd like to tailgate on your experience. I already have KHE which I will use as a spine.

 

Any input you have would be appreciated! Thanks!

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Oh, gosh. I didn't even think about the science. Eek! I will have to go read those now, too. LOL I also need to find that science thread.

 

 

 

I'm so glad people share how they do things and what works and doesn't for them. It really gives me things to think about that I probably wouldn't have.

 

 

I agree! I was thinking I was all set for History Odyssey and RS4K, and then I just HAD to get TWTM from the library to "double check" some things. :D

 

 

2_girls:

 

What supplemental history materials have you found to be necessary/helpful?

 

I have my list (compiled from TWTM 3rd ed.) here and have written down:

-DK Timelines of World History

-National Geographic Family Reference Atlas

-National Geographic Almanac of World History

-Note Taking & Outlining book

-Blank Timeline Templates

 

 

 

I was looking for that Note Taking & Outlining book earlier, thinking we could go through it over the summer, since we school year round. It looks to be out of print on Amazon! At least the 3-5 level. I think I may have found a replacement for it, though.

[mo2]

:lurk5:

[mlbuchina]

2_girls:

 

What supplemental history materials have you found to be necessary/helpful?

 

I have my list (compiled from TWTM 3rd ed.) here and have written down:

-DK Timelines of World History

-National Geographic Family Reference Atlas

-National Geographic Almanac of World History

-Note Taking & Outlining book

-Blank Timeline Templates

 

I understand everyone has their own preferences, but if someone else can do history without all of the above (it gets expensive!), I'd like to tailgate on your experience. I already have KHE which I will use as a spine.

 

Any input you have would be appreciated! Thanks!

 

My list looks much the same. I will say, I looked up the timeline templates and didn't really like the look of them. I posted here about timelines, and got a really great idea from someone who posted what they did. I am doing it that way now, and all it costs are some poster board and yarn.

 

I agree! I was thinking I was all set for History Odyssey and RS4K, and then I just HAD to get TWTM from the library to "double check" some things. :D

 

 

Oh, I know! And now that I am comparing the two different editions, it is getting worse! LOL I think I am leaning more to using the Kingfisher, as I think it will be less distracting for my dd9. The Usborne just seems to be a little too busy and very choppy in it's presentation of the material.

 

And then you had to start the thread about science... :lol:

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

What about this as an option?

 

Use a combination of SOTW and UILEWH as the spine, following the schedule set up on CHOLL. Also assign some of the literature options from CHOLL. However, instead of following the entire CHOLL program as it's laid out, write down facts from UILEWH and outline from SOTW. Then the student can still chose a topic of interest to do extra research on, i.e. silkworms or the Trojan Horse. And you can still have them outline from the extra source instead of SOTW if desired.

 

Is there a flaw in that plan that I'm not seeing? Am I missing something?

[2_girls_mommy]

2_girls:

 

What supplemental history materials have you found to be necessary/helpful?

 

I have my list (compiled from TWTM 3rd ed.) here and have written down:

-DK Timelines of World History

-National Geographic Family Reference Atlas

-National Geographic Almanac of World History

-Note Taking & Outlining book

-Blank Timeline Templates

 

 

 

I have kept it pretty simple using:

 

-No timeline book

-No Atlas on a regular basis. We have some around, but have kind of left that part out. We use a globe.

-No Almanac of History in particular. We have a good collection of history textbooks and history reference books though. Dh has always read them instead of fiction. So we can pull a lot from our shelves.

-I didn't buy the Note Taking and Outlining book though I was considering it for my next child. I think organizing will be tougher for her. I will have to check out the replacement mentioned.

-For timeline I found a copy of the Sonlight Book of Time at a used sale unused. I don't even know what all it came with new. It was unused but open when I bought it. Works fine (though WTM would not approve. The time spaces are different in the ancients than the modern pages to give more room) I don't know what I will get my next dd. Maybe purchase the same thing new.

 

*** ETA: mapwork: Geography Coloring book, some SOTW maps, and I also used the map in LCI and some from the FF1 text for drill on ancient names of geography and of the city of Rome and the hills, etc. for the ELE. Also we have the Complete Book of Maps and Geography workbook that she works in for fun on breaks. She likes it for "fun school" days along w/Mindbenders and math games type days.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

 

-For timeline I found a copy of the Sonlight Book of Time at a used sale unused. I don't even know what all it came with new. It was unused but open when I bought it. Works fine (though WTM would not approve. The time spaces are different in the ancients than the modern pages to give more room) I don't know what I will get my next dd. Maybe purchase the same thing new.

 

 

 

We just recently started using Charlotte Mason's Book of Centuries. Wall space is at a premium since I purchased my Billy bookcases from Ikea to line a wall and a half, and the binder fits nicely on the new bookshelves! You should check it out, it's free! Eventually, maybe once we get used to the idea, I'll have each child keep their own Book of Centuries, but right now, we just have the one and I'm showing them how to enter the dates they run across in their studies.

[RootAnn]

-I didn't buy the Note Taking and Outlining book though I was considering it for my next child. I think organizing will be tougher for her. I will have to check out the replacement mentioned.

-For timeline I found a copy of the Sonlight Book of Time at a used sale unused. I don't even know what all it came with new. It was unused but open when I bought it. Works fine (though WTM would not approve. The time spaces are different in the ancients than the modern pages to give more room) I don't know what I will get my next dd. Maybe purchase the same thing new.

 

I picked up the Note Taking/Outlining book for $1 from another homeschool mom completely by chance. Nothing special, IMO.

DD#1 is using Sonlight's Book of Time because I was gifted a completely free one from someone who never used theirs. Working fine, although DD found the 'figures' and always wants to use those. ;-)