Torn between MCT and Fll/WWE

[MaeFlowers]

I am new to homeschooling and am looking for advice about these programs. My ds will be in third grade next year. Although he has done well with grammar and is reading well, his reading comprehension is shallow and his writing skills are lacking. I was hoping for input on which you would choose and why sort of thing..

There is one issue: He does not like to write. He finds it tedious and lacks patience.

 

[Arboreal TJ]

Bumping for you.

 

 

[happyhomemaker]

I haven't used MCT so I can't speak to that, but FLL/WWE work really well for writing-phobic kids. FLL can be done mostly orally. WWE has been very beneficial for ds's reading comprehension. I have been amazed with how far he has come in dictation, being able to answer questions after reading an excerpt, and narrations.

[skeeterbug]

WWE 2 doesn't have much writing, just copy work and dictation. The narration you write for him. It doesn't require any creative writing. Maybe that would be a good place to start? We're only just finishing up this level so I can't speak to level 3 but looking at the samples it looks like they write out their own narrations more. Sounds just right for a writing-phobic kid.

 

For grammar we are using Grammarland this year with the worksheets. After we finish I am thinking of doing both FLL 3 and MCT Grammar Island. I don't have either yet, but they don't look like a lot of writing. The only thing holding me back is the price for MCT.

[Clarkd]

Fll also has memorization. We are doing fll/wwe now but plan to move to mct with wwe around grade 3ish.

[serendipitous journey]

TimesTwo, you want advice specifically for grammar? Are you wanting something inclusive to cover those other skills (reading comprehension, writing, &c)? Is the child high-aptitude? Are there any other exceptionalities?

 

I don't esp. like FLL myself and much prefer MCT, which I'm using in combination with Galore Park's Junior English 1 -- this includes excellent passages & reading comprehension, dictionary work, some grammar, optional creative writing exercises. But for the collection of skills you mentioned, you could easily start with Writing With Ease and FLL as a straight-forward way to address many issues and move to MCT after WWE1 is easy for the child.

[MaeFlowers]

TimesTwo, you want advice specifically for grammar? Are you wanting something inclusive to cover those other skills (reading comprehension, writing, &c)? Is the child high-aptitude? Are there any other exceptionalities?

 

 

 

I think more specifically I am looking for advice on writing. He does not seem to have problems with writing, just an aversion to it. He just wants to get it over with. He will always give you the shortest possible answer to any question because he does not want to take the time to write it out. That is my main concern with WWE. I am concerned the copywork and dictation will end up making him hate writing even more. However, it is a skill he has to learn. I spoke with him tonight and he said that if he could write about whatever he wanted to, he would like writing more.

 

I may not have a full grasp of the MCT program because I thought it might be less writing intensive than WWE but would still instill the technique? I also wanted a program that would help him think more deeply about the meaning of what he was reading. (Both seem like they might be good with this).

 

I am new to all of this and appreciate any help and advice I can get.

 

I forgot to add...He seems to be high-aptitude. This is a long story and my post is already long enough.

[fourisenough]

I own MCT, but haven't used it. Actually, I decided to shelve it until after we complete FLL 3/WWE3, so we may be pulling it out soon. Wish I could offer more help in that regard.

 

I think FLL 3/WWE 2 could be a good combination for the child you describe. There is enough to writing to get him doing it fluently, but not enough to instill a lifelong hatred.

 

My non-reluctant writer has used it exclusively this year and she writes very well for her age (but does not write reams of paper for pleasure). We completed her FLL/WWE at an indoor playground one day this this week and after she had returned to the playstructure for fun with her sister, a older woman (grandmother to the young children with her, I suspect) sitting at the next table leaned over and asked whether I was homeschooling. She commented that only a homeschooled child could answer questions like that and only a homeschooled parent would think to ask her child to summarize a passage as I had. I passed the book over so that she could see the narration that I took down and then the two sentences my daughter wrote from dictation. With a look of shock on her face, she told me that there is no way her 8-year old grandson could write like that. "Oh, he writes a lot!" she exclaimed,"I just can't read his writing or follow the story at ALL!"

 

I relate this story simply to underscore the fact that the SWB method of writing instruction looks different. It is different. There is no Writer's Workshop, a la current public school fashion. I don't mean to be critical of Writer's Workshops (I plan to mix-it up and utilize this approach this summer), but it is a very different approach. If you haven't already done so, I recommend listening to her audio lectures to see if the method will mesh with your goals and expectations.

[serendipitous journey]

I think more specifically I am looking for advice on writing. He does not seem to have problems with writing, just an aversion to it. He just wants to get it over with. He will always give you the shortest possible answer to any question because he does not want to take the time to write it out. That is my main concern with WWE. I am concerned the copywork and dictation will end up making him hate writing even more. However, it is a skill he has to learn. I spoke with him tonight and he said that if he could write about whatever he wanted to, he would like writing more.

 

I may not have a full grasp of the MCT program because I thought it might be less writing intensive than WWE but would still instill the technique? I also wanted a program that would help him think more deeply about the meaning of what he was reading. (Both seem like they might be good with this).

 

I am new to all of this and appreciate any help and advice I can get.

 

I forgot to add...He seems to be high-aptitude. This is a long story and my post is already long enough.

 

 

I would strongly suggest MCT for him, given what you've said; it is intrinsically interesting and will help develop his comprehension skills, and is just excellent material. RE the amount of writing, it _is_ less but will develop into more over time.

 

If he hates physically writing, here are a few ideas:

1. let him work with a pen: for mistakes, have him draw 1 neat horizontal line through and write the correction above or to the side. This is a tip I picked up from IEW and it has really helped. If you want a neat final draft, have that done in pencil. A. adores Le Pen pens but they don't last long...

 

2. Narrations: use Charlotte-Mason style narrations once a day or so for material he's working with. This involves him telling you back the reading, and adding in interesting relevant information of his own, rather than summarizing in just 2 or 3 sentences. You can start narrating from Aesop's Fables, which are the simple yet rich for starting; for other materials, figure out how much material he can narrate well (a paragraph? a page or so?) and break it down into smallish chunks, building up over time. You can do this reading aloud from his history or science or literature selections. Don't do it for everything, though; just for school-ish items. This is a terrific tool for boosting comprehension.

 

2. Look at the Bravewriter materials. There are lots of posts to guide you through using them; if the child would really be writing more about things he's interested in, this might work well.

 

3. WWE would be worthwhile just for the comprehension; if you do not see the use of the copywork and dictation excercises, you could pass them over. When you start you may want to have the child answer questions and narrate for each paragraph or two, instead of the whole selection. That said WWE is not a lot of writing, especially at first. I myself have found that requiring a good amount of writing during "school" had translated into my child writing much more on his own than he otherwise would.

 

4. For my reluctant writer we're using IEW's SWI-A and I am very happy. But he is younger (7 1/2) and so far is interested in the assigned topics (starfish, tarantulas, &c). I think IEW is excellent for getting a child to write more, but not everybody likes it - you could search the threads.

 

anything resonate?

[Five More Minutes]

I think more specifically I am looking for advice on writing. He does not seem to have problems with writing, just an aversion to it. .... I spoke with him tonight and he said that if he could write about whatever he wanted to, he would like writing more.

 

I may not have a full grasp of the MCT program because I thought it might be less writing intensive than WWE but would still instill the technique? I also wanted a program that would help him think more deeply about the meaning of what he was reading. (Both seem like they might be good with this).

 

I use MCT and WWE in combination here.

 

MCT is wonderful for encouraging thinking about language, and it instills a deep understanding of grammar. I highly recommend it. I used FLL (1 & 2), and it was fine, but we by far prefer MCT.

 

However, to my mind, the writing exercises in MCT are not enough if done alone. They are wonderful exercises for encouraging extended thinking about grammar and poetry topics, but they do not explicitly teach how to write. For that instruction, I use WWE.

 

I was afraid that my dds would hate copywork and narration, but it has been surprisingly painless and it works. It doesn't take a lot of time each day, so they don't really have time to complain about it. :001_smile:

 

FWIW, my older dd was writing-phobic when we started WWE, despite loving reading and words. She would provide the shortest answers possible to minimize writing time. :glare: But we just kept plugging away at WWE, and now she writes volumes on her own time, as well as writes her own (lengthy) history and science narrations.

[MaeFlowers]

I really appreciate all the information! I feel so overwhelmed by language arts for some reason. I have been giving him some assessments that I found for free online. His reading level is 5-6th grade, but in all other areas, he is testing 2nd grade. With reading comprehension, he can answer all multiple choice questions correctly, but has trouble with open-ended writing questions. He does not seem to get exactly what the question is asking and answers the question only partially. I am thinking that for a public school student, this is pretty typical. I think! Right now I am leaning towards MCT, the grammar island level (I just wish it was not so expensive). The format just looks like it would be more appealing to him than FLL. I am thinking I will supplement with WWE2. For those who use multiple programs, what parts of MCT do you use? I am thinking grammar island, poetry, building language, and the practice book. Then add WWE2. Do you think that another spelling program is necessary? Thank you again for all your input!

[Five More Minutes]

I am thinking I will supplement with WWE2. For those who use multiple programs, what parts of MCT do you use? I am thinking grammar island, poetry, building language, and the practice book. Then add WWE2. Do you think that another spelling program is necessary? Thank you again for all your input!

 

This year I used:

• WWE 2
  
• MCT: Grammar Island, Practice Island, Sentence Island, Music of the Hemispheres, Building Language
  
• All About Spelling
  

The MCT Building Language book is the only one that *I* wasn't thrilled with was Building Language, but my dd loved it. I've heard that the vocab books are much, much better at the Town level.

 

I do recommend using a phonics-based spelling program along with MCT, unless you have a natural speller who will learn best via vocabulary.