Talk to me about ADD or anything else

[claluck]

My husband is insisting he thinks our son (11)may be ADD. We played around online and did a bunch of long questionaires and he reminded me of stuff from my sons past when he was in public school. Note my husband is a speech pathologist in the schools and works VERY closely with the special education people in elementary - highschool.

 

At any rate lately I have been pulling my hair out. I feel like we should accomplish so much more in a day that we are. People talk about their kids sitting down and doing a half hour of math. Um yeah my kid would revolt or stare at the wall while picking his nose. I don't know. Anyways here are some things that describe my kid.

 

One he is smart, he is above grade level in reading and math. He enjoys reading most of the time. So long as it's a book that interests him. BUT he doesn't read for pleasure. Not really. He doesn't really love TV either. He enjoys it but seems to get bored and wander off of longer movies. Also we come from a family of game players and he tends to quit most games somewhere in the middle out of pure boredom.

 

Distractable. You should see what this kid can get distracted by. My husband suggested today I try having him sit on the exercise ball to do his math today. LOL. My son went in the other room. He took an hour to do one page of math. And he got half the problems wrong. When I looked at the math most of the errors were careless (He was doing fractions) like he didn't pay attention to the + or - signs. I commented outloud that I dont think the ball really helped. My son told me... "oh the ball wasn't a problem." Me, "Really then why did you math take an hour and you got a bunch of them wrong with silly errors?" Him... "Well I was looking at my hand and my handprint and then my fingerprints and how the lines were different on the first fingers on both my hands and then......." This kind of distraction is very typical for him. I have watched him "read" books where he spends more time playing with a string on his pants or staring into space or picking his nose (yes I know gross).

He has also told me he actually doesn't hate math. That one minute he will be all into it and feel like doing it and then the next problem he suddenly feels bored and doesn't want anything to do with it any more.

 

When he was in public school he got good grades. But every parent teacher conference included a note from the teacher that he seemed to have trouble focusing or paying attention. And that he would often disrupt other students in their work.

 

He does a progress testing at the school 3 times a year and has since kindergarten. My DH wanted me to continue this when we brought him home. He takes forever to finish one test (there are 3-4) My 9 year old also tests and comes home a good hour before his brother on each test. They test should take 30-45 minutes max my son takes 1 1/2 hours. The teacher who administers the test has cut him off before to make him take a break because he is taking so long. He scores well on the tests. WE thought at first he was being a perfectionist at it but after observing him its just him getting distracted by something ... anything.

 

 

At any rate DH and I have talked about it for years. But we haven't done anything about it. I think at first I brushed it off as impossible because in my mind he wasnt ADHD. He is definitely NOT hyper. But I read recently that there is a whole other branch of ADD kid that could be described as "sluggish, lethargic, and unmotivated" That's more my kid. He is a good kid. He cares for his brothers and sisters, loves to cook, likes playing with other kids (though he isn't great at making friends and had a tendency to say stupid things before he thinks which hurts other kids feelings and cuts friendships). He seems to enjoy learning even. He likes homeschooling and likes things like scouts. He liked playing soccer, even though he hates running.

 

Even if he is ADD, I don't know that I plan to get a formal evaluation of him. One I don't think he is bad enough to medicate, two I don't want to label him or have him label himself even. Three right now is a REALLY bad time (I am due to have a baby any day now). Four we live very rural, such evaluations would take months of traveling and arrangements. And I guess while it is starting to seriously effect his school I feel like with homeschooling him I can alter our environment to help him.

 

Anyways what I really wanted to know is if there is other stuff I should be looking at or if he just sounds normal and I am expecting too much of him or if I am on the right track. I want to help him succeed and teach him the skills to help himself. I just feel lately we are failing at it.

 

Christina

[myfunnybunch]

I think, based on your post, he sounds like a dreamy kid with attention difficulties. Really, the measure of whether or not he's got a diagnosable condition is (or should be) whether it interferes significantly with his daily life. It sounds like it might, especially since impulsiveness is affecting his relationships with others, and distractibility is impacting his ability to do his schoolwork, and loss of interest is making it difficult for him to participate in family games.

 

The description of the math page and the hand made me giggle a little. That would SO happen at my house! My son will sit down to play Legos....with his pants half on. He forgets he's getting dressed. Sigh..... However, we are able to modify his environment enough that his distractibility doesn't significantly interfere with his schoolwork.

 

The first areas I'd address, in your shoes, are sleep, routine, diet, exercise. My son does MUCH better if he gets enough sleep, has a regular routine, gets enough exercise, and eats healthier--not a lot of sugar or bread, more veggies, more proteins. He does karate three days a week, swims or walks every morning, we hike, and I send him to run up and down the stairs or ride his bike or do jumping jacks till he's out of breath when he gets spacey.

 

I'm teaching him to identify his own distractibility. Now he can tell me, "Mom, I can't focus," and we can problem-solve.

 

It used to be that short bursts of work interspersed with some kind of moving around the room, even if it was just to get a book off the shelf or make me a cup of tea, was helpful. Now he'd rather finish a task he's started and sometimes it doesn't even take f-o-r-e-v-e-r. Baby steps.

 

I try to talk a lot about how our brains process information, and about self-control and attention-control. I feel less naggy and he feels less nagged if I am saying "Please get your attention under control," instead of "Pay attention!" Semantics, maybe, but I want to send him the message that this is something he can control, it just takes practice and patience.

 

We tried caffeine, but that didn't seem to work much for him, and he despises coffee, though he likes to make himself a cup of tea once in a while. He says he doesn't think it helps much but he likes the idea.

 

Pick one or two areas to focus on. Talk to your son a lot about what works and what doesn't. What does he want you to do to help when he seems distracted? What distracts him? (Everything. Right?) How can he redirect himself? What helps him to stay focused?

 

And it may be that medication will help him. I think medication is one of those issues that people have strong feelings about, but it's just a tool, meant to be used wisely if it's used at all. It's not like you have to rush out and have him evaluated tomorrow. But it's probably time to start considering the possibilities, and as you're exploring some of the other ways to help maybe you'll get some clues as to whether meds and diagnosis are something that should be discussed.

 

:grouphug: You're not failing him. You're a good momma. You're recognizing that he may need some kind of intervention, and you're asking for advice so that you can help him.

 

Cat

[MomatHWTK]

At any rate lately I have been pulling my hair out. I feel like we should accomplish so much more in a day that we are. People talk about their kids sitting down and doing a half hour of math. Um yeah my kid would revolt or stare at the wall while picking his nose. I don't know. Anyways here are some things that describe my kid.

 

One he is smart, he is above grade level in reading and math. He enjoys reading most of the time. So long as it's a book that interests him. BUT he doesn't read for pleasure. Not really. He doesn't really love TV either. He enjoys it but seems to get bored and wander off of longer movies. Also we come from a family of game players and he tends to quit most games somewhere in the middle out of pure boredom.

 

Distractable. You should see what this kid can get distracted by. My husband suggested today I try having him sit on the exercise ball to do his math today. LOL. My son went in the other room. He took an hour to do one page of math. And he got half the problems wrong. When I looked at the math most of the errors were careless (He was doing fractions) like he didn't pay attention to the + or - signs. I commented outloud that I dont think the ball really helped. My son told me... "oh the ball wasn't a problem." Me, "Really then why did you math take an hour and you got a bunch of them wrong with silly errors?" Him... "Well I was looking at my hand and my handprint and then my fingerprints and how the lines were different on the first fingers on both my hands and then......." This kind of distraction is very typical for him.

 

I can tell you from my personal experience that these are signs of ADD I've seen in my children. And that for myself, a non-stimulant medication has made an incredible difference in my productivity. We chose for years to not get a diagnosis and accomodate, but with higher math and longer reading assignments, more complex learning in general it is hard to work around. There are lots of non-medication treatment options and as you mentioned, behavioral modifications that can help. I would definitely begin researching to topic.

[tinkbaby]

Both my husband and I are ADHD. He was medicated as a kid; I received counseling & behavior therapy. In the long run, the counseling has won out. There are dozens of little tricks we do to make it work for us, not against, and those same tricks work great for my daughter who isn't ADHD (just an eight year old that doesn't know how to entertain herself yet).

 

A routine is really important. Give your son a list of all this assignments for the day. Make sure everything he needs to complete his assignments for that day are all in one place, the same place (like a basket on the counter, etc), everyday. Every morning he gets his list of assignments & basket of school supplies; every afternoon he puts it all back in the same spot. Everything is always in the same spot! (this really goes for everything, not just school stuff)

 

Break up all the tasks that he has to do into smaller chunks/steps, and write in breaks & "fidget" time. One of the best bits of advice I got from a counselor once was "Don't fight the fidgets." Anything that takes more than 20 mins automatically gets a break. Just getting up and going for a walk around my office is usually enough to get me back on track.

 

A side note... one of the things about ADHD that doesn't get talked about much is the "hyper-focus." A person with ADHD can get REALLY involved in something, and spend hours on it. The problem comes when they are interrupted ... a person with ADHD can't just "go back" to doing what they'd been doing before the phone rang, etc. Give your son a chance to get completely absorbed in his "list of things to do" each day. Some subjects he'll be taking a "break" every 15 minutes, but there is eventually going to be something that he gets completely sucked into.

[dmmm]

Break up all the tasks that he has to do into smaller chunks/steps, and write in breaks & "fidget" time. One of the best bits of advice I got from a counselor once was "Don't fight the fidgets." Anything that takes more than 20 mins automatically gets a break. Just getting up and going for a walk around my office is usually enough to get me back on track.

 

Yes, yes, yes.

[bobbeym]

You could have just described my youngest son. He's never been formally diagnosed because DH doesn't want us or him to feel pressured to be medicated, but there is no doubt he falls into the "inattentive" category of ADHD. DH was in denial for YEARS, but finally admitted it "was a strong possiblity" once we started homeschooling and he now has to deal with DS all.day.long. :svengo:

 

The thing we found helps most is strict diet management. He needs high protein, high whole grain/veggie carbs, and limited natural sugars. We stay away from processed foods, dyes, and sugars almost entirely as that's when he's at his worst. Coffee does help, but DH doesn't allow him to drink as much of it as he'd like.

 

We also use behavior modification. Right now we're working on helping him to self-identify the distractability so he can stay on task and time management. We take lots of baby steps and reward each tiny success with lots of verbal praise and encouragement. I'm also seeing some improvement that just comes with age and maturity. We also talk alot about making the ADHD work for him instead of fighting his natural tendancies, how it isn't to be used as an excuse, and how he's not "broken", he's just wired different.

 

Like the PPs have said, build in fidget time and let him run off his energy when he needs it. Pick a few things you think are most important right now to work on and focus your effort on those. Add in a new focus effort once the first ones become habit. I especially love what Cat said:

"Please get your attention under control," instead of "Pay attention!" Semantics, maybe, but I want to send him the message that this is something he can control, it just takes practice and patience."

[Barbara H]

I agree with the suggestions to look at lifestyle - structure, diet, sleep, exercise, routine. I would also suggest the book "Smart but Scattered." It focuses on nonmedication approaches to help with ADHD and I think you'll find some practical advice you can use. http://www.amazon.com/Smart-but-Scattered-Revolutionary-Executive/dp/1593854455

 

Also, there is a free Coursera course out on ADHD right now - it just started. I am signed up but haven't gotten to watch yet. It might be of interest to you or your husband. https://www.coursera.org/course/adhd

[Jen in PA]

 

A side note... one of the things about ADHD that doesn't get talked about much is the "hyper-focus." A person with ADHD can get REALLY involved in something, and spend hours on it. The problem comes when they are interrupted ... a person with ADHD can't just "go back" to doing what they'd been doing before the phone rang, etc. Give your son a chance to get completely absorbed in his "list of things to do" each day. Some subjects he'll be taking a "break" every 15 minutes, but there is eventually going to be something that he gets completely sucked into.

 

 

:iagree: What looked like typical issues with making transitions when my DS was a toddler turned out to have a lot to do with this issue. By the time he was school age, he was becoming aware of how hard it was to get back into things that had been interrupted, which often led him to either give up completely on re-engaging with what he had been pulled away from or lashing out at whoever had broken his focus -- neither approach resulting in much learning getting accomplished.

 

I found lots of helpful info in this book.

[PeterPan]

Both my husband and I are ADHD. He was medicated as a kid; I received counseling & behavior therapy. In the long run, the counseling has won out.

 

 

I would love to hear more about this.

[claluck]

Thanks everyone. Dh and I made up a new schedule for him last night. We broke some of the bigger assignments into 2 different chunks. We decided he will start his day with a run on the treadmill. I also put some mini physical breaks into his schedule. With jumping jacks, sit ups, pull ups and brain gym exercises and changing the laundry around (he likes to do laundry for some reason and with a house of 9 people I am all game for all the help I can get lol). I actually had him rate how much he enjoys or doesn't enjoy certain activities and used that in my thoughts of how to break stuff up as well. Spreading out the more dreaded activities and surrounding the worst offenders with more enjoyable things like a break or something more hands on.

 

And we have looked into some of the lifestyle changes. I think sleep is okay for him. (830 to 630) We talked about food dyes and since we tend to not eat alot of processed foods we feel like it wouldn't be that hard to just be a bit more vigilant about that. He is my one who will sneak into the pantry and sneak a soda or capri son which we keep on hand for picnics and such. But I think it is worth just getting rid of them. My dh is gluten and dairy intolerant so diet changes are not unusual in our house. It wont be that hard to change a bit though I am quite certain he will be resistant to me cutting sugar. I have to look into the caffeine thing more.

 

I do need to focus on him not using this whole theory as an excuse. I see it as a challenge. Something to work with and make some adjustments for. As he gets older he will need to learn how to live with it. I think part of the reason we are really noticing how much a problem it is now is because as he is getting older and his brother is as well we are noticing his brother who is year and a half younger has way more focus and attention than he does. His brother typically gets done way sooner with school than him and they are doing many of the same things. Really only math is different for them. I also think as academic work is becoming more rigorous we are noticing more. We know what he is capable of. We also know that if he acted this way at public school he would be getting poor grades. There is no way he could be this way in school and get away with decent grades.

 

My husband is going to talk to the school psychologist today and get all the information from him that he can. He said he knows they have a questionaire they give the teachers and one for the parents when considering it. Plus a ton of tips for teachers. I figure if nothing else we can try these strategies and see if we see improvement. Even a little would be worth it. If I can save frustration on DS and my part and keep me from nagging and becoming demon mom over my frustrations with him. Plus thinking twice before yelling at him for getting distracted, not necessarily getting away with it but being more gentle about understanding he doesn't honestly mean to,

 

Oh question...., We don't do grades here. We just never have. We teach to proficiency. When he understands or masters a subject we move on. I will tell him good job or something to that effect to let him know its done well or poorly whatever it is but I don't assign a formal ABCDF grade. Would actually assigning grades be beneficial in his case so he has a more concrete picture of how he has performed? Or would it be best to stick with no grades like we have been. If it wont benefit him I don't want to really go through the trouble but if he needs it I will.

 

I also would like to hear about how counseling and behavior therapy won out in the long run. I hate to think about medicating a child. We tend to lean more natural solutions in our family. We medicate when necessary though and have 3 kids on permanent medications (one with asthma/allergies, one allergy which effected sleep and thus self control issues, and one for a kidney problem). Basically we lean more to doing all we can before we turn to medication and use it as more of a last resort. If I felt that my son really couldn't hack life and I might feel that way more towards high school I might think about medication. But I want to try everything lifestyle I can first.

[tinkbaby]

My mother was very against medication - my step-brother was on medication because -his- mother got it for him, and this just added to her NO MEDS! policy for me. Instead I went and spoke with a counselor that dealt with ADHD... my mother had done some reading up about it because of me & my step-brother & found a doctor(?) that taught kids how to manage their symptoms.

 

It really did help. It requires you to be aware of your symptoms & actively take control (which can be a nice feeling vs. the "OMG no matter what ... grrrr... this is so frustrating!" feelings). The tips seemed really stupid at first. A friend of mine even joked that I was like "on of those OCD people" because you really have to have dedicated spots for things, and a routine... but - it works! I stopped forgetting stuff... being late because I couldn't remember where stuff is. I mean, it sounds simple (and obvious, now), but when you are a kid that stuff is so... responsible, and boring, so stuff just gets dumped on the bed (or whatever).

 

I never really put much stock in what the counselor had told me until after I joined the military... and slacked off because my mom wasn't around to make sure I was following through. For example.... I lost count of the number of times I locked myself out of my room... or went to bed with the key still sticking out of the lock (on the outside of the door), simply because I stopped hanging up my key on the wall, next to the door, like I had done for last 2 years.

 

The counselor also explained WHY I couldn't re-engage with things, and helped me to think of ways to get my work done (breaking tasks down, taking breaks), and taught me that it was "OK" not to be able to re-engage... maybe do something else, then come back. It helped with the frustration, a lot.

 

My husband (on the other hand), because he was taking medication never really paid much attention to his symptoms... because all he had to do was take a pill and bam! focus on demand. Then he moved out, joined the military (where you generally don't get ADHD meds - in fact some jobs prohibit them) and now had to (learn to) deal with all the frustration.

 

A couple years ago I actually went back to see another counselor because I found myself getting overwhelmed again and unable to cope. And again, they helped me work through and find ways to take control of the symptoms again to make them work for me.

 

edited to add: here is a book I read (as an adult) that also helped (it's written to the person with ADHD, but as a parent it might help get some insight).

http://www.amazon.com/Delivered-Distraction-Getting-Attention-Disorder/dp/0345442318/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363886522&sr=8-1&keywords=delivered+from+distraction

[claluck]

Very interesting and it makes sense. I would rather my kids learn coping strategies. It sounds like medications was an easy answer for your DH but that was a diservice for him later in his life.

 

Funny my we make goals for each of the kids at the beginning of the month. This month for the son in question we made his goal to put his school work away as soon as he is done with each subject and it has helped a bunch with some of our frustrations. One my house looks less like a curriculum bomb went off by the end of the school day and two he doesn't have to search the whole house over to find his books on every subject. It was a goal he picked and I am helping him with this month. He is getting better at it.

[wapiti]

I'd look at the CDC criteria (the checklists, basically). For any kid but especially for a bright one, I'd do testing with an ed psych/neuropsych (including IQ and achievement testing) before I'd accept a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD, as other issues have overlapping symptoms and/or may coexist in the same person. just my two cents...

[Tracy]

This sounds very much like my dd8. I have been doing a lot of reading over the last year. I second the book Smart but Scattered. It was a tremendous help. It doesn't talk so much about ADD, but rather addresses the executive weaknesses that are symptoms of ADD, as well as a host of other conditions. Since reading that book, we have made a number of environmental modifications, which have helped a lot. We continue to work on establishing routines and habits that make what she does automatic. It is taking so long, but after several months of plugging away at it, we are finally starting to see some results.

 

My dd8's symptoms are exactly like my dh's. He has never been assessed, so we don't know that it is ADD. But he said something recently to me about taking tests that really hit me hard. He said that the SAT and the ACT were the only tests that he ever finished, and that he considers it a true miracle that he finished those. I wasn't going to get dd8 tested, because I thought we were doing well with managing the problems on our own. But this comment made me realize that when she takes standardized tests (we live in a state that does not require them), she is likely going to need either accommodations or medication in order to complete them. So we are pursuing getting her tested now.

 

Another thought. If he is that distractible and was still doing well in school, there is a good chance that he is also gifted. If you ever pursue testing, make sure you get someone that has experience with 2e (twice exceptional) children.

[claluck]

Thanks everyone. It is good to know it is something I should keep pursuing. I think we may work on getting him tested eventually. But I am not putting it on my high priority list right now. I never thought about the SAT but I can certainly see that being a problem for him. Since we already know he takes an exceptionally long time to complete testing. I have a few of the suggested books ordered on amazon and I apparently have tons of reading to do. I also signed up for that class. I am geeky and it sounds totally interesting. I would love to know how this effects the brain. Even if he doesn't officially have ADD he has something going on and if the methods used to help kids with ADD can help him I am all game for doing whats best for him.

 

Christina

[MomatHWTK]

You might keep an eye out for a sale on this course:

http://www.thegreatc...l.aspx?cid=1651

 

I'm geeky too and I've really enjoyed it so far. (I've signed up for the Coursera class but haven't watched any lessons yet).