Logic stage biology - secular!

[Truscifi]

We're just starting logic stage and I'm trying to find a biology program. It must be secular, and I would prefer something fairly easy, open and go, since I'll be chasing around a toddler too. Ds is a fairly motivated science student, so something he can do relatively independently is ok too. And preferably not insanely expensive. I looked at Classiquest, but between the progrm, all the books, and the lab kit it is over $200. :scared:

[dbmamaz]

hmm, so thats like middle school? Pandia Press Real Science Odyssey came out with a 2nd level bio. http://store.ellenjmchenry.com/ her stuff is not religious but avoids talking about evolution. you could look at intellego middle school science

[TarynB]

 

Elemental Science? It uses secular, evolution-teaching encyclopedias as the spines, very open and go, scheduled, organized, written to the student, includes weekly labs for which you can also buy a supply kit if you want. We really like Elemental Science here and it happens to be one of the lower priced options, even though I would be willing to pay much more for it.

[AK_Mom4]

CPO Life Science would be another option. I prefer the ebook versions of the Student books, but am watching Amazon to pick up a hard-cover copy of the Teacher book for myself. Even purchasing the TE and lab supplies (HomeScienceTools), I priced it out well under $100

[Murrayshire]

Another vote for Elemental Science! You could also give Oak Meadow a try!

[Wendy Inman]

Another vote for Elemental Science, we're using it this year. :)

[Laura in STL]

Also using CPO Life Science here. It's very easy to implement, and both the student book and lab guide are online as ebooks for free. I found the TE on Amazon marketplace. Each chapter has two labs, two to four reading sections with review questions, and a real life connection to read about. There is an assessment at the end of the chapter. We do most of the labs, but you could modify them or do less and still learn quite a bit.

[ondreeuh]

We'll be using Prentice Hall Science Explorer with the Guided Reading & Study pages. It seems similar to CPO, but with fewer online bells & whistles (which would be too much for me to juggle, anyway).

[Mom in High Heels]

Another vote foe Elemental Science.

[Susie in CA]

We'll be using some of the Science Fusion books next year.

[Truscifi]

Someone on another forum suggested Interactive Science. Has anyone used this?

[Truscifi]

We'll be using some of the Science Fusion books next year.

 

 

Where did you find this? I've only found it available to buy for a whole class, not individually.

[Haiku]

We're using Holt Science and Technology this year. The kids love it. We just read the chapter and do some of the in-chapter activities or labs in the back of the book. Then we do some supplemental reading from the library ... or not, if we don't want to. This is the most relaxed we've ever done science, and the kids are probably learning the most.

 

Tara

[Sweet Home Alabama]

We're using Science Shepherd. It is reasonably priced, and very straightforward. It is written by a Christian doctor, BUT... he simply teaches the science without focusing (or mentioning- best I can remember) any Christian perspective. You can read about this in his FAQ section: "How are creation and evolution handled". If I had to choose a con, it would be the lack of a strong lab. He uses a standard lab book that he incorporates into his Life Science program. It could really be that WE have been too lazy to do the labs this year, so I can't truly call his method of labs a con. SS Life Science has been great this year for my 7th grader. Clear and challenging.

 

You asked about biology, but his middle school version is Life Science just fyi.

 

Here's a link:

http://www.scienceshepherd.com/

[Dolphin]

Just to throw something out there. We are doing science the English way. Instead of a whole year of Biology and then not seeing it again for four years, you do a combo of the three main sciences every year. Gradually getting more advanced. That way not as much is forgotten. We are doing So you really want to learn science from Galore park. Then we just get fun science kits from home science tools or other places. We get the books from horrible Ray, and it really is not very spendy. DS enjoys them, and dh thinks they are really well written. (Dh is a Phd drug discovery chemist with an honors degree from Bristol, so a super geek :001_smile: )

[Jayne J]

I am looking at RSO Bio. Level 2 (Drool) and Elemental Science. The only qualm I have with ES is that the supply kit seems to lack...almost anything. 65$ for felt squares, coffee filters and q-tips? Then I looked at the rest of the supply list in the sample (sand, loam, uncooked shrimp shells, snails??) and it seemed like a lot of additional work to gather it all. I am sooooo tired of gathering all the supplies for science. I really wish that the supply kit really came with everything. (Ok, I know she couldn't ship the snails, but....)

[Haiku]

We are doing So you really want to learn science from Galore park.

 

 

The introduction to this book reminds us that we live in a wonderful world that is made for us by God. ;)

 

Tara

[dm379]

Another for Elemental Science. We've been using it for a few years now and haven't had any issues with it.

[mommymilkies]

I was disappointed in ES as it catered heavily to creationists while ignoring evolution, from my experience of the grammar stage one. RSO, IMHO is the best bet. It even includes evolution, which is a rare find.

[TarynB]

I was disappointed in ES as it catered heavily to creationists while ignoring evolution, from my experience of the grammar stage one. RSO, IMHO is the best bet. It even includes evolution, which is a rare find.

 

 

Just FYI, evolution and The Big Bang are taught in the logic stage materials of Elemental Science, in the secular science encyclopedia spines upon which Elemental Science is based. We didn't use ES in the grammar stage - although we've used two years of the logic stage - but we do science secularly and I haven't found anything that felt to me like ES "catered heavily" to creationists.

[mommymilkies]

 

 

Just FYI, evolution and The Big Bang are taught in the logic stage materials of Elemental Science and those topics are well-covered in the secular science encyclopedia spines upon which Elemental Science is based. We didn't use ES in the grammar stage - although we've used two years of the logic stage - but we do science secularly and I haven't found anything that felt to me like ES "catered heavily" to creationists.

 

 

In astronomy in particular, it told you to go find resources if you want to discuss timeline and the age of the universe, instead of including it. I find avoiding the issue to be just as bad, IMHO, because it is leaving out important scientific information. There is a thread on here about it. I am surprised to learn that it is included in the logic stage.

[TarynB]

I am looking at RSO Bio. Level 2 (Drool) and Elemental Science. The only qualm I have with ES is that the supply kit seems to lack...almost anything. 65$ for felt squares, coffee filters and q-tips? Then I looked at the rest of the supply list in the sample (sand, loam, uncooked shrimp shells, snails??) and it seemed like a lot of additional work to gather it all. I am sooooo tired of gathering all the supplies for science. I really wish that the supply kit really came with everything. (Ok, I know she couldn't ship the snails, but....)

 

 

 

To be fair, the supply kit for ES logic stage biology contains quite a few more items than just "felt squares, coffee filters and q-tips". I counted more than 30 items on the contents list. Granted, the retail value of each item certainly doesn't total the $65 list price for the kit, but as in many situations, I see this as an issue of "your money or your time". And I agree it isn't fully complete. However, I don't think ES's kit is any different from most (nearly all?) other sources in these ways. I don't know of any truly complete AND inexpensive science kits. You could certainly gather the needed supplies yourself for less than the ES list price, but would you actually do it? Or would the labs just not get done? I recently purchased a small preserved frog and a student frog dissection kit (student kit, not even the "regular" scientist level), and including S&H, those two items cost almost $25. These are just two of the items included in the supply kit you can buy from ES. Science labs are messy and supplies are required. You can do the dirty work yourself or pay extra for someone else to do it. :)

[TarynB]

 

Where did you find this? I've only found it available to buy for a whole class, not individually.

 

Homeschool Buyers Coop had a group-buy for individual users to purchase Science Fusion a while back. I just checked and HSBC is currently not offering it, but you could keep an eye out for it there.

 

FWIW, I've never used Science Fusion, but some of the opinions I've heard about it is that it's a great classroom concept that so far hasn't translated very well to the homeschooler market (i.e., difficult interface, hard to navigate, etc.). But maybe they'll work on that aspect, and you could definitely check it out. HTH!

[TarynB]

In astronomy in particular, it told you to go find resources if you want to discuss timeline and the age of the universe, instead of including it. I find avoiding the issue to be just as bad, IMHO, because it is leaving out important scientific information. There is a thread on here about it. I am surprised to learn that it is included in the logic stage.

 

I agree with you re: leaving things out.

 

FWIW, both ES and RSO have the same policy about teaching those topics (evolution, Big Bang, age of earth, etc). Both avoid those topics in their grammar/elementary stage but include those topics in their higher levels. At least that's what both say on their FAQ pages: RSO and ES.

[Jayne J]

 

 

 

To be fair, the supply kit for ES logic stage biology contains quite a few more items than just "felt squares, coffee filters and q-tips". I counted more than 30 items on the contents list. Granted, the retail value of each item certainly doesn't total the $65 list price for the kit, but as in many situations, I see this as an issue of "your money or your time". You could certainly gather the needed supplies yourself for less than the ES list price, but would you actually do it? Or would the labs just not get done? I recently purchased a small preserved frog and a student frog dissection kit (student kit, not even the "regular" scientist level), and including S&H, those two items cost almost $25. These are just two of the items included in the supply kit you can buy from ES. Science labs are messy and supplies are required. You can do the dirty work yourself or pay extra for someone else to do it. :)

 

Yes, to be fair, you are absolutely correct. But I did find it a little much, since even after purchasing the (IMO) overpriced supply kit, I would still have to scramble for supplies that are not included but could be, such as sand, loam, air drying clay, shoeboxes, soil, jars, soda bottles, paper cups, milk jugs, gloves, bones, pantyhose, and razors, not to mention all the various living things (such as leaves, snails, worms and flowers), plus household items--flour, cornstarch, lettuce, bleach, vinegar, etc. Now, I am reasonable--as I mentioned, she cannot possibly send fresh flowers and live snails, but some of the other stuff listed could definately be included. If I am paying that much for a supply kit, I want to have just about everything possible included.

 

That said, ES is still on my short list for next year, because I like the content. I just wish I could really buy almost all the supplies needed, since this is year five of scrambling for a soda bottle or a cork or a cup full of soil (and always in January when we have 4 feet of snow).

[Wheres Toto]

It does look like Elemental Science is going to cover the Big Bang briefly as an optional activity in Week 1 of the Logic Stage Earth Science but it doesn't look like they are going to cover Evolution at all.

 

It's a shame. I really wish there were more options that didn't leave things out.

[Element]

CK-12 Middle School Life Science is a free online book. I still don't know what I'm going to be doing for ds next year, but I like what I've seen from CK-12. (I'd put up a link but it looks like the site is down for maintenance right now.) You can download the book through iBooks for free, but it doesn't have all the supplemental videos available from the online flexbook.

 

 

I really like the look of Oak Meadow too.

[TarynB]

urpedonmommy - I hear you, and I know you're just venting about the cost and the legwork required. We probably don't do as many science labs as we should here, because sometimes the supplies are a pain. I just wanted to point out the facts so as not to be mis-leading to other posters/readers. :coolgleamA:

[TarynB]

It does look like Elemental Science is going to cover the Big Bang briefly as an optional activity in Week 1 of the Logic Stage Earth Science but it doesn't look like they are going to cover Evolution at all.

 

It's a shame. I really wish there were more options that didn't leave things out.

 

I see evolution as more of a life science/biology topic than an earth science topic. Did you look at the biology course?

[Wheres Toto]

 

I see evolution as more of a life science/biology topic than an earth science topic. Did you look at the biology course?

 

 

Yes, I did look at the Logic Stage Biology sample. It's not mentioned in the Logic Stage Biology sample at all, and even their FAQ doesn't say it will be covered. They say it's not covered in the elementary years, but don't say anything about it for the intermediate years.

 

" In the elementary years, we do not schedule pages that deal directly with evolution or Big Bang. In the intermediate years, pages that deal with the Big Bang are included as an optional study (Please view the Earth Science & Astronomy for the Logic Stage sample to get a better idea of how this is handled.)"

[TarynB]

Yes, I did look at the Logic Stage Biology sample. It's not mentioned in the Logic Stage Biology sample at all, and even their FAQ doesn't say it will be covered. They say it's not covered in the elementary years, but don't say anything about it for the intermediate years.

 

" In the elementary years, we do not schedule pages that deal directly with evolution or Big Bang. In the intermediate years, pages that deal with the Big Bang are included as an optional study (Please view the Earth Science & Astronomy for the Logic Stage sample to get a better idea of how this is handled.)"

 

 

I agree, I wish ES had more coverage of those topics, but it's still the best non-textbook science we've found to fit our needs and preferences. ES is doing what a lot of publishers do, trying to fit the needs of as many users (secular and non-secular) as possible. We read additional pages on the topics we wanted from ES's secular spines since we had them out already, added a biography and documentary about Charles Darwin, some Neil deGrasse Tyson, things like that.

[ondreeuh]

The introduction to this book reminds us that we live in a wonderful world that is made for us by God. ;)

 

Tara

 

 

Isn't that funny? At least it was written by a "guest" and not the author herself.

[Dolphin]

The introduction to this book reminds us that we live in a wonderful world that is made for us by God. ;)

 

Tara

 

 

 

.... and that shows just how bad I am about reading introductions. I have not seen any other mentions of God (I flipped through our book).

 

It does teach Big Bang and evolution though.

[Jayne J]

urpedonmommy - I hear you, and I know you're just venting about the cost and the legwork required. We probably don't do as many science labs as we should here, because sometimes the supplies are a pain. I just wanted to point out the facts so as not to be mis-leading to other posters/readers. :coolgleamA:

 

 

Did my frustration show? LOL. Sorry if I came across harsh--science is driving me 'round the bend just now.

[TarynB]

Someone on another forum suggested Interactive Science. Has anyone used this?

 

 

Those do look like a good option. I knew I had seen those covers before, then I finally realized those books are Prentice Hall textbooks. So I guess Timberdoodle is now selling Prentice Hall books, minus the online interactive bells and whistles that Prentice Hall normally sells to public schools? That's what I gathered from reading Timberdoodle's blurb about them. Quite a bit less expensive than Amazon's current price, too. Cool!

[Laura Corin]

The introduction to this book reminds us that we live in a wonderful world that is made for us by God. ;)

 

Tara

 

Interesting: I'd never noticed that.

 

I think that it's hard for non-Brits to see that religion is just not a big deal for most in the UK. The author believes that the universe was created by a god. He also, in his introduction, talks about The Big Bang and Evolution. I haven't used the book, but I'd be surprised if faith came back into it in later sections.

 

I see it on a par with his dedication of the book to his family and pets. As an atheist, I would just think: that's the personal bit done, now let's get on with the science.

 

I'd like to hear from someone who has used the book as to whether there are other references.

 

Laura

[foxbridgeacademy]

You could try Connect the Thoughts(upper Level)... around $30 and it is self teaching. I haven't made it to Biology yet but I can't see the author requiring a lot of expensive materials.

[momto2Cs]

Just to throw something out there. We are doing science the English way. Instead of a whole year of Biology and then not seeing it again for four years, you do a combo of the three main sciences every year. Gradually getting more advanced. That way not as much is forgotten. We are doing So you really want to learn science from Galore park. Then we just get fun science kits from home science tools or other places. We get the books from horrible Ray, and it really is not very spendy. DS enjoys them, and dh thinks they are really well written. (Dh is a Phd drug discovery chemist with an honors degree from Bristol, so a super geek :001_smile: )

 

 

I really liked this idea, so we're going to be approaching science differently for a while.

 

Right now we're working through Dr. Art's Guide to Science, and reading from You Are the Earth. I expand on what we're learning in those with readings from the Prentice Hall Science Explorer books.

 

I plan to use the same approach next year, using The Magic of Reality for a spine text (at least one semester), and adding in material from the PH books.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

For the record, I'm a creationist, but I plan on teaching my children all of the different viewpoints of science. I don't see anything wrong with providing them with all of the data regarding different theories and letting them figure out for themselves which one makes the most sense to them. I know I, certainly, cannot fit into any scientific box. I believe that God put us here as we are, not that all life started as a single-celled nothing. But I also believe that the theory of the big bang could be possible. It doesn't give explicit details in the Bible about how God made the earth. We don't know whether there was a big bang or not. He certainly could have made it that way. I also don't know how old the earth is. Humans lived to be 900 years old in the Old Testament. But what does that mean? Probably not 900 years as we calculate them today. So, I will present my children with all of the material and let them sort it out. As long as they're learning the basic building blocks, I'm happy. :D

 

I recently purchased a small preserved frog and a student frog dissection kit (student kit, not even the "regular" scientist level), and including S&H, those two items cost almost $25. These are just two of the items included in the supply kit you can buy from ES. Science labs are messy and supplies are required. You can do the dirty work yourself or pay extra for someone else to do it. :)

 

Just the mention of frog dissection has the smell of formaldehyde in my head. :lol:

 

It does look like Elemental Science is going to cover the Big Bang briefly as an optional activity in Week 1 of the Logic Stage Earth Science but it doesn't look like they are going to cover Evolution at all. It's a shame. I really wish there were more options that didn't leave things out.

 

Wouldn't it be relatively simple to put together your own evolution unit to go along with whatever you're using? Especially if you do it toward the end of the year once your child sort of knows the process. Gather some books, do some reading and experiments, and have them write a short report or outline about it. I'm leaning toward Elemental Science myself, and thinking that I would like to add some extra experiments to it just for fun.