Spelling and Weak Visual Memory

[Manamana]

I've had some concerns about Dd8's reading and spelling ability so we went for a general assessment today (reading level, spelling level and math level). The results showed she is reading above grade level but her spelling ability is below grade level. However she was consistently using strong phonics skills to spell words. She spelled cook, "cuck", light was spelled "lite", and said, "sed", of was spelled "ov". You get the idea.

 

The evaluator said she did not show signs of dyslexia but her visual memory is weak. She suggested putting aside AAS and working on strengthening her visual memory by playing matching games. She also suggested having her look at a few sight words at a time and pay attention to the shape/size of the letters. Then she should try to spell the word by visualizing it in her mind.

 

Using a program like AAS has been tedious for us because the rules are difficult to memorize and apply. I see how developing her memory is important. She knows most of her phonograms well but she doesn't know how words should look or have that sense of remembering the correct spelling.

 

I'm curious to hear from others with kids who have had weak visual memory identified as a challenge and how you've made progress. Any Resources you would suggest?

[Ellie]

I've had some concerns about Dd8's reading and spelling ability so we went for a general assessment today (reading level, spelling level and math level). The results showed she is reading above grade level but her spelling ability is below grade level. However she was consistently using strong phonics skills to spell words. She spelled cook, "cuck", light was spelled "lite", and said, "sed", of was spelled "ov". You get the idea.

 

The evaluator said she did not show signs of dyslexia but her visual memory is weak. She suggested putting aside AAS and working on strengthening her visual memory by playing matching games. She also suggested having her look at a few sight words at a time and pay attention to the shape/size of the letters. Then she should try to spell the word by visualizing it in her mind.

 

Using a program like AAS has been tedious for us because the rules are difficult to memorize and apply. I see how developing her memory is important. She knows most of her phonograms well but she doesn't know how words should look or have that sense of remembering the correct spelling.

 

I'm curious to hear from others with kids who have had weak visual memory identified as a challenge and how you've made progress. Any Resources you would suggest?

 

 

 

Spalding.

 

The reason that Spalding or one of its spin-offs would work better than AAS is that there is more actual *writing*, which engages all parts of the brain, not just the visual. Writing the phonograms while saying them, the analyzing involved in everything from how individual letters are written to which phonograms are used in each word and marking the phonograms, using the rules in context--they are never just memorized, they are always used in context--makes all the difference in the world.

[julikins]

I'm bumping this because I wonder if this may be what my daughter struggles with. She's 11 and we live overseas where testing isn't available. So I would have to do some DIY therapy for her. But where to start?

[Manamana]

 

 

 

Spalding.

 

The reason that Spalding or one of its spin-offs would work better than AAS is that there is more actual *writing*, which engages all parts of the brain, not just the visual. Writing the phonograms while saying them, the analyzing involved in everything from how individual letters are written to which phonograms are used in each word and marking the phonograms, using the rules in context--they are never just memorized, they are always used in context--makes all the difference in the world.

 

 

Ellie,

 

Can you tell a little more about what you mean when you say Spalding uses "rules in context"? I would say AAS also uses rules in context but I'd be curious to know what you mean. Either way, students do have to remember the rule in the midst of writing words and making complex decisions about how to write sounds, any exceptions that apply and how to form letters.

 

If the student doesn't have a memory bank of words to draw from or no recollection of how a word looks, she is going to make the spelling decision based on phonetic sound, and in 50% or more words, probably spell incorrectly. In dd's case, she has seen the word "of" many, many times, read it and copied it too. For some reason she doesn't remember that word when it's time to encode it.

 

 

 

 

[ondreeuh]

My son has a very poor visual memory as well. We tried AAS and came to the exact same conclusion you did - he was unable to "look up" the rule in his mind and make decisions about how to spell (if this then that, but only if this not that).

 

We have had the best luck using high frequency words sorted by type (via Spelling Plus) and using the "overteaching spelling method" (on WTM here). This method is the most efficient IMO. Any word he struggles with he spells out loud, writes 5x, covers up and spells from memory, etc. Since you work through the most frequently used words, functional spelling improves immediately. Spelling Power is similar I think, but more expensive & comprehensive.

 

We took a break from spelling to go back and re-do phonics with Saxon Phonics Intervention (my kiddo IS dyslexic) and I think he will be much more prepared for spelling when we resume it.

[MerryAtHope]

You mentioned using a program "like" AAS, but have you actually tried AAS? The author actually researched the simplest ways to state the rules to make them easier to learn. Also they are taught very incrementally, so kids master one before moving on, but also continue to review it. Not trying to talk you into AAS necessarily, but you may want to look more into what it does before deciding not to do it. AAS actually teaches 4 main spelling strategies (visual and rules-based are only 2 of them), and shows kids how to analyze words to decide which ones to use when studying new words. It's helped my kids a ton. Best wishes as you decide what approach to take! Merry :-)

[MerryAtHope]

Spalding.

 

The reason that Spalding or one of its spin-offs would work better than AAS is that there is more actual *writing*, which engages all parts of the brain, not just the visual. Writing the phonograms while saying them, the analyzing involved in everything from how individual letters are written to which phonograms are used in each word and marking the phonograms, using the rules in context--they are never just memorized, they are always used in context--makes all the difference in the world.

 

 

I'm not sure why you think AAS doesn't involve much writing? Yes, it uses tiles while learning the words, but kids write all of the words (often more than once, because they write them for review), they write dictations including all of the words, and later on they do the writing station, making up sentences for words. The writing does start off gentle, but it gradually increases and kids get plenty of practice with actually writing the words. They write the phonograms while saying them when they learn and review the Sound cards, and while they write the words. They analyze words for the phonograms used, and use several methods for determining which phonograms should be used for a certain sound they hear. With AAS, rules are also used in context, and if a student misses one in context, there is an easy method for reincorporating that concept back in daily review.

 

You have great information to share about Spalding and how it works, and about many LA topics in general, but I'm not sure you know AAS well enough to really speak to what it teaches.

[Ellie]

Ellie,

 

Can you tell a little more about what you mean when you say Spalding uses "rules in context"? I would say AAS also uses rules in context but I'd be curious to know what you mean. Either way, students do have to remember the rule in the midst of writing words and making complex decisions about how to write sounds, any exceptions that apply and how to form letters.

 

If the student doesn't have a memory bank of words to draw from or no recollection of how a word looks, she is going to make the spelling decision based on phonetic sound, and in 50% or more words, probably spell incorrectly. In dd's case, she has seen the word "of" many, many times, read it and copied it too. For some reason she doesn't remember that word when it's time to encode it.

 

:grouphug: The whole thing must be really difficult for both of you.

 

The Spalding Method involves *writing* much more than AAS does (that's why the manual is called the *Writing* Road to Reading). The physical act of writing phonograms, then words, uses the kinesthetic as well as the visual parts of the brain, and saying the sounds and the words (and the rules) as they are written involves auditory. When you teach a phonogram, you verbally analyze it together; when you dictate a spelling word, you verbally analyze it together, with the phonograms, and the markings, and any rules which apply (not every word illustrates a rule). All three modalities are used: visual, auditory, kinesthetic.

 

It sounds as if your does have special needs which need to be addressed in many ways, such as the games that were recommended to help build her visual memory skills, but I think that Spalding would be more effective than AAS for the above reasons.

[Gentlemommy]

This is my dd. She actually spells phonetically, and without breaking 'rules'. So learning the phonograms, rules and what not did NOTHING for her, except to cause tears and frustration. There really isn't a reason why some words are spelled the way they are rather than another way. You do at some point, have to visualize and memorize what various words look like. What has been working so far is Apples and Pears. I dont know WHY or HOW it works, but it does. I read a ton of reviews on it and everyone expressed the same wonder at it working without knowing how lol. It is teacher intensive, in that its not a workbook i can hand her and walk away, and it is a LOT more writing than she was used to. BUT, there are NO tears, which i cant say for the other things we tried. We tried Spalding, AAS, and a few others.

[Manamana]

Thank so much for the different responses which give me some ideas and resources to explore.

 

We have been using AAS and are approaching the end of book 2. My apologies that I wasn't clear about that in my post. We review the rules frequently, and she is slowly learning them and, in fact, was using them when she spelled the word cook - "cuck". It is a one syllable word with a short "u" sound followed by ck to make the \k\ sound. She applied the rule correctly but the word is still misspelled. Since we haven't yet covered the vowel team "oo", it is reasonable she would not know how to spell the word "cook".

 

However, when she spelled "of" - "ov" she forgot to apply the rule about English words not ending in a v. That was the most recent rule we learned and we have not reviewed it enough for her to remember it. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if she applied that rule and spelled "of" - "ove" at some point because of the way "have" is spelled.

 

Perhaps we should just move to Finland and speak Finnish. Anybody with me?

[Gentlemommy]

That was the same problem we were having. Dd WOULD apply the rules, and STILL spell the words wrong.

[Ellie]

Thank so much for the different responses which give me some ideas and resources to explore.

 

We have been using AAS and are approaching the end of book 2. My apologies that I wasn't clear about that in my post. We review the rules frequently, and she is slowly learning them and, in fact, was using them when she spelled the word cook - "cuck". It is a one syllable word with a short "u" sound followed by ck to make the \k\ sound. She applied the rule correctly but the word is still misspelled. Since we haven't yet covered the vowel team "oo", it is reasonable she would not know how to spell the word "cook".

 

However, when she spelled "of" - "ov" she forgot to apply the rule about English words not ending in a v. That was the most recent rule we learned and we have not reviewed it enough for her to remember it. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if she applied that rule and spelled "of" - "ove" at some point because of the way "have" is spelled.

 

Perhaps we should just move to Finland and speak Finnish. Anybody with me?

 

 

Hmm. Spalding doesn't use rules like that. Makes it sound as if AAS has more rules, which would actually be more confusing, seems to me. Seems to be to her, as well.

[zoobie]

Lindamood-Bell has come up a few times from people offering advice or me researching on DD9's dyslexia. I don't know much about their programs, but it came to my mind as being recommended for visualization, etc.

[sixpence1978]

This was my DD's problem as well. She has been tested as mild-moderate dyslexia. But her scores for working memory, visual memory, and auditory memory were quite low. AAS didn't work well for her because it was just too much for her to juggle. She would use up her working memory trying to think of how to form the letters while writing, thinking of the sounds to write down, and then any spelling rules on top of that. After a year and a half of AAS, only making it to about step 10 of level B, we went a different route.

 

Apples and Pears does such a great job of including that "overlearning" that my DD needed for her memory struggles. I've also heard it said that it does a type of "visual imprinting" to help spelling improve. She has done level A and half of level B and her spelling has improved by leaps and bounds. There is a lot of writing, but I think that is one of the ways in which it works. The child is exposed to WRITING the word over and over again in different contexts. Just reading the word over and over again didn't do it for my DD.

 

That being said, we are taking a brief break from it as she was getting a little bit burnt out. She is doing some SS at the moment and doing okay with it. If she hadn't had the exposure to A&P, I don't think she would be having as much luck.

[Gentlemommy]

Sixpence, I'm so glad to hear that! My dd sounds just like yours. Her working memory and processing speeds are on the lower end of the spectrum. A &P is working, and it's good to hear its worked for others with similar issues. If you don't mind me asking, how many lessons did you go through per week? We are aiming for 2 full lessons, but it's a lot of writing for dd, so sometimes we don't make it through. Not sure if I should push her a bit more or continue at this pace or slow down...

[MerryAtHope]

 

We have been using AAS and are approaching the end of book 2. My apologies that I wasn't clear about that in my post. We review the rules frequently, and she is slowly learning them and, in fact, was using them when she spelled the word cook - "cuck". It is a one syllable word with a short "u" sound followed by ck to make the \k\ sound. She applied the rule correctly but the word is still misspelled. Since we haven't yet covered the vowel team "oo", it is reasonable she would not know how to spell the word "cook".

 

 

I wonder if you pronounce it differently there. For us, "cook" does not use a short U sound (as in cup, for example). It is the same sound as the third sound of U--but that's not the short sound. If you pronounce it with a short U sound there, then I would tell her it's an exception and put it in jail as a rule-breaker.

 

Also, I don't count off when my kids are writing words they have not yet gotten to in AAS, I just give them the spelling.

[MerryAtHope]

I'm still confused???

 

 

The Spalding Method involves *writing* much more than AAS does (that's why the manual is called the *Writing* Road to Reading). The physical act of writing phonograms, then words, uses the kinesthetic as well as the visual parts of the brain, and saying the sounds and the words (and the rules) as they are written involves auditory. When you teach a phonogram, you verbally analyze it together; when you dictate a spelling word, you verbally analyze it together, with the phonograms, and the markings, and any rules which apply (not every word illustrates a rule). All three modalities are used: visual, auditory, kinesthetic.

 

It sounds as if your does have special needs which need to be addressed in many ways, such as the games that were recommended to help build her visual memory skills, but I think that Spalding would be more effective than AAS for the above reasons.

 

AAS does every single one of the things you listed here, except that it uses tiles instead of markings.

[Ellie]

I'm still confused???

 

 

 

AAS does every single one of the things you listed here, except that it uses tiles instead of markings.

 

Writing instead of tiles makes a big difference.

[sbgrace]

This is my dd. She actually spells phonetically, and without breaking 'rules'. So learning the phonograms, rules and what not did NOTHING for her, except to cause tears and frustration. There really isn't a reason why some words are spelled the way they are rather than another way. You do at some point, have to visualize and memorize what various words look like. What has been working so far is Apples and Pears. I dont know WHY or HOW it works, but it does. I read a ton of reviews on it and everyone expressed the same wonder at it working without knowing how lol. It is teacher intensive, in that its not a workbook i can hand her and walk away, and it is a LOT more writing than she was used to. BUT, there are NO tears, which i cant say for the other things we tried. We tried Spalding, AAS, and a few others.

 

This is our experience.

 

I've been using a strong rules based program--along the lines of Spalding but not that--Phonics Road. It's been fantastic for one child and I see a lot of value in the approach. However, the approach just isn't working with my kid with a weak visual memory. He does spell phonetically. He remembers and follows the rules. He picks a great phonogram for the sound--just not the right phonogram! I'm leaving the rules based approach for him. In fact, I'm ordering Apples and Pears today. No experience yet but I'm hopeful we'll make better progress.

[Terabith]

I did the Spalding training for teachers, and I taught at a private school using it. I also use it with my oldest. I think it's a phenomenal program. However, I use AAS with my younger one, and I started my older daughter off with it. I don't think AAS does less actual writing compared to Spalding; the writing and analyzing is there just as in Spalding. The real difference to me is that it makes learning the rules much, MUCH easier, because they are taught more incrementally. Spalding is pretty tough for a young child who is trying to remember all the phonograms and all the rules and using all of them all the time. They often get overwhelmed and frustrated in those intial stages. AAS teaches each rule slowly and thoroughly, using word lists that focus on them, but the constant review keeps them applying the previously learned rules. It made a great starter for my older one to move into Spalding, which I did frankly for cost reasons. It was hard for me to justify paying $40 for a new level of AAS when I had my $500 worth of Spalding training sitting on my bookshelf, iykwim? (I found 1-3 used.) However, I may bite the bullet and buy the later volumes of AAS with my younger dyslexic, dysgraphic daughter with an absolutely nonexistent visual memory. (She's still using mnemonics to spell her first name at almost 8.)

 

ETA: AAS does use tiles for the first go round, but then they physically write the words, both in isolation and in dictation of phrases/ sentences.

[GoVanGogh]

DS has multiple medical diagnosis related to the brain and hands, which are magnified with spelling.

He tests around 12th grade for reading, 1st/2nd grade for actual writing/spelling. (He tests on grade level on standardized test where he is selecting a word already written correctly or incorrectly.)

 

His OT last week tested his visual memory, which was very poor. He scored very well on all other visual tests.

One thing the OT recommended was http://www.eyecanlearn.com/

She also suggested memory games, mazes, connect-the-dots and word finds. DS has done those (quite well) since he was very young, so I don't know how doing more will help at this point.

We have been in OT nearly six months now, but the visual memory is new this week so I haven't had time to figure it out. (Was planning on posting to the SN boards this weekend.)

 

 

Spelling:

We have used nearly half dozen spelling programs over the years.

 

Most recently we were using AAS. He can say the phonics rules, but cannot apply them easily.

Part of DS's problem is that he is slow to achieve muscle memory, so writing has never been automatic for him. Plus, he has tremors and muscle spasms, so programs that rely heavily on the mechanics of writing bog him down.

We liked AAS because he found it easier to use the letter tiles than to hold a pencil. But - AAS, we thought, had so much writing in it, especially the dictation and review.

 

But - since his dx - we have switched to Sequential Spelling. It has the repetition that DS needs for muscle memory, and it builds up quickly to larger words, which he needs for his confidience.

 

We are also drilling sight words, using various methods - typing, white board, finger paints, laying on floor using huge paper and crayon (so he feels the drag of the crayon against the paper), sidewalk chalk on the side of the house, etc.

[Clear Creek]

I have not had my daughter tested for anything, but she spells things the same way that your daughter does. I have long suspected that she has difficulty with her visual memory (copywork is an extreme chore - she has to copy it one letter at a time and she loses her spot on the page completely when she writes the letter on her paper, making it very time consuming since she has to re-read the page to find the word she is copying, and the only way she can keep the letter she is copying in her head is to say it aloud, she is unable to copy anything strictly by sight). She makes up for a deficit in visual memory by relying heavily on her auditory and physical memory to learn her spelling words. She was consistently failing spelling tests last year until I started having her spell her new words aloud and write them in the air in huge letters every single day - that same week she scored well on her spelling test, and she has been getting A's and B's ever since. The words she learns to spell correctly this way carry over to her written work, as well.

[MerryAtHope]

Writing instead of tiles makes a big difference.

 

They don't do tiles instead of writing. They do it in addition to writing. It's an added visual and kinesthetic tool. The only time tiles would be used instead of writing would be for very young learners (who would go back and work on writing later), or for students who need that as an accommodation (and again, they would work on writing later as appropriate).