Jump to content

Menu

Sonlight removing religious content for use in public school program


hsmom10
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 325
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

 

Not everybody who lives in an affluent area is wealthy. And because of the high cost-of-living found in such areas, a family who is middle class still may not have hundreds of dollars to spend out-of-pocket per child each year for SL.

 

 

 

:iagree:

I actually live in this county. Yes, it is in the top wealthiest counties in the US, but that does not mean that everybody is well off. When you figure that most homeschooling families are living off of one income, compared with the predominantly dual-income households in the county and the high-cost of living...many do need that assistance.

 

I have stayed out of this discussion because, to be honest, I have no idea how I feel about this. I do have aquaitances that are a part of the Cloverleaf homeschooling program, who really love it. Most of the directors and teachers in the program are Christian, and most of the students are as well. The program itself meets in a local church. A lot of these families would love to use Sonlight as is, but because of the enrichment program itself falling under public school jurisdiction, they are trying to make it secular (as far as what I understood).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume they are doing it just to make a profit. They are a business. This is what businesses do - they make profits. IMO there is no need for altruistic motives for a businesses' actions to be ethical. I also don't blame them for feeling the need to "spin" this with their base of religious customers. Apparently they were correct in this assessment. ;) It's just business. It's not like they have tried to do an end-run around the court system through sneaky legislation or something....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you.

 

From the FB post, this seems to be a school district issue regarding use of funds, not a Sonlight issue.

 

 

That is what I got out of it, they are arguing over use of funds. I found it interesting that it mentions Sonlight and it's representatives directly when Sonlight is denying that they are involved in any way with the school district. We customers aren't the only ones who are confused. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

:iagree:

I actually live in this county. Yes, it is in the top wealthiest counties in the US, but that does not mean that everybody is well off. When you figure that most homeschooling families are living off of one income, compared with the predominantly dual-income households in the county and the high-cost of living...many do need that assistance.

 

I have stayed out of this discussion because, to be honest, I have no idea how I feel about this. I do have aquaitances that are a part of the Cloverleaf homeschooling program, who really love it. Most of the directors and teachers in the program are Christian, and most of the students are as well. The program itself meets in a local church. A lot of these families would love to use Sonlight as is, but because of the enrichment program itself falling under public school jurisdiction, they are trying to make it secular (as far as what I understood).

 

 

 

I agree that being a homeschooling family on a single income in this area (which I am also) means that the income is typically lower than the average dual income family, and I don't disagree that there aren't people that can use help. My issue is not with the program, or that it offers curriculum assistance to people that choose to go that route. I think my issue has been pretty much talked out at this point- especially because I see Sonlight is falling under a different name at the school for next year, which was not mentioned in the original article I posted about yesterday. I think the resources available in this area (including the fantastic libraries) still put it better off than some districts out there, where children might truly be unable to obtain good literature.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd try secular SL.

 

At this point, I'm so desperate for a secular lit-based boxed curriculum for multiple ages, I'd buy one off a trench-coat wearing guy in an dark alley.

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

This is why I have purchased Sonlight cores in the past, even though it meant having to toss a few books in the trash. There just aren't any good secular options out there. It will really fill a niche if they are offering a secular version.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.dcsdk12.org/cs/groups/public/@webhomeed/documents/webcontent/dcs931369.pdf

 

This pdf shows how SL marketed their product along with the Cloverleaf Home Education Program/Douglas County School District for the 20I2-I3 school year. For the 20I3/20I4 school year they are marketing their product but, using the name FlashBright by Sonlight.

I find it interesting that Judy's comments with regard to this topic in the "Dear Sonlight" forum seem to deny any involvement of their product with this school. Maybe I am missing something?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.dcsdk12....t/dcs931369.pdf

 

This pdf shows how SL marketed their product along with the Cloverleaf Home Education Program/Douglas County School District for the 20I2-I3 school year. For the 20I3/20I4 school year they are marketing their product but, using the name FlashBright by Sonlight.

I find it interesting that Judy's comments with regard to this topic in the "Dear Sonlight" forum seem to deny any involvement of their product with this school. Maybe I am missing something?

 

 

No, I just asked that question there myself. I don't think they realize that the internet is all knowing, and searchable. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, so Judy says it's not the same company. But I find that John Holzmann himself referred to Sonlight/Inquisicorp on his blog in 2010 http://johnscorner.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/woo-hoo-sonlightinquisicorp-goes.html

 

Judy says Sonlight has no dealings with the public school in question and the article is not about Sonlight but about their parent company. But the logo on the paperwork is Sonlight's, and the descriptions of the curriculum list an IG, etc. just like Sonlight. But no, says Judy, this has nothing to do with Sonlight.

 

And this site lists Sarita Holzmann as president of InquisiCorp and John Holzmann as treasurer. http://companies.findthecompany.com/l/12002687/Inquisicorp-Corporation-in-Littleton-CO But it's not their company and it's not Sonlight. It's Sonlight's parent company. And as always, Judy cannot comprehend exactly what people are asking. (SL's MO for years now)

 

Why not just say, "We have our secular business and our Christian homeschooling business, and in one we un-Christian the product for wider use, but in the other we narrowly define Christianity and emphatically state that this peculiar brand of Christianity incorporated within the curriculum is the only way to honor Jesus through education (see Sonlight's 27 reasons), and we argue out of whichever side of our face we need to, depending upon the customer to whom we are trying to sell something."

 

Or am I missing something.

 

I have no problem with a secular division. Goodness knows, the hs'ing community has been begging for a secular Sonlight for, like, a decade. I do have a problem with the fundy, YE Xian hard sell on the one hand, and eradicating all the Jesus talk for a different audience. Does education require evangelical Christianity or not? If you don't think so, why do you say that to your Christian customers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, so Judy says it's not the same company. But I find that John Holzmann himself referred to Sonlight/Inquisicorp on his blog in 2010 http://johnscorner.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/woo-hoo-sonlightinquisicorp-goes.html

 

Judy says Sonlight has no dealings with the public school in question and the article is not about Sonlight but about their parent company. But the logo on the paperwork is Sonlight's, and the descriptions of the curriculum list an IG, etc. just like Sonlight. But no, says Judy, this has nothing to do with Sonlight.

 

And this site lists Sarita Holzmann as president of InquisiCorp and John Holzmann as treasurer. http://companies.findthecompany.com/l/12002687/Inquisicorp-Corporation-in-Littleton-CO But it's not their company and it's not Sonlight. It's Sonlight's parent company. And as always, Judy cannot comprehend exactly what people are asking. (SL's MO for years now)

 

Why not just say, "We have our secular business and our Christian homeschooling business, and in one we un-Christian the product for wider use, but in the other we narrowly define Christianity and emphatically state that this peculiar brand of Christianity incorporated within the curriculum is the only way to honor Jesus through education (see Sonlight's 27 reasons), and we argue out of whichever side of our face we need to, depending upon the customer to whom we are trying to sell something."

 

Or am I missing something.

 

I have no problem with a secular division. Goodness knows, the hs'ing community has been begging for a secular Sonlight for, like, a decade. I do have a problem with the fundy, YE Xian hard sell on the one hand, and eradicating all the Jesus talk for a different audience. Does education require evangelical Christianity or not? If you don't think so, why do you say that to your Christian customers?

 

The like button wasn't enough. LOVE!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was going to say what Tibbie said and she did it better than I ever could. Businesses doing "it" for the money (whatever the "it" is, in this case changing the product to match the market) isn't a bad thing, and in many cases can be good.

 

Yes, the Christian thing to do, if by Christian you mean kind, altruistic, and in the spirit of love and sharing, would be for SL to make quality education available to everyone. As a Christian company (one that's ultimate goal I would think would be spreading the word and love of God) would want everyone educated so that they could make faith decisions with full knowledge and reasoning, however since SL is a business first *I* don't expect that of them. Some people did, hence the being upset that SL is not living up to that expectation. KKinVA and others make a good point though: it's not really news where SL is concerned (and the stereotype of Xtians being hypocrites is getting some mileage here, whatever. It has happened and it's worse when someone who claims moral authority behaves badly because we hold them to a higher standard, KWIM?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a letter - email? in the catalog? on the boards? Wayyyyy back a number of years ago from John saying just that, that inquisa thing was for their secular materials. It was around the time the DVDs and math thing came out, it might have been addressing why they were using Science DVDs from a "secular" company?!?!

 

I haven't been around over there for years, but I remember this letter and it was somewhat strange what they weren't saying.

 

 

But, they are handling this wrong..... way wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a letter - email? in the catalog? on the boards? Wayyyyy back a number of years ago from John saying just that, that inquisa thing was for their secular materials. It was around the time the DVDs and math thing came out, it might have been addressing why they were using Science DVDs from a "secular" company?!?!

 

I haven't been around over there for years, but I remember this letter and it was somewhat strange what they weren't saying.

 

 

But, they are handling this wrong..... way wrong.

 

 

It seems John's explanation was lost in the board changes, but here's a thread where Colleen was trying to get answers in 2006: https://www.sonlight-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2489

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish I'd saved Sarita's emails after the Catholics were kicked off the forums, when the new elementary and science IG's were rolled out, about how her integrity called for only providing evangelical Christian materials as her Christian mission or something like that. Does anyone know which email I mean? Did anyone save it?

 

Edited to add: I'm not on some vendetta to slander or discredit Sonlight. I was a faithful customer for a long time and I own tons of SL curriculum, but I'm not a current customer. I don't like recent business practices but I don't take them personally and have no axe to grind. I'm just trying to figure this out. I am sure that the reasons given for marginalizing forum members and running them off, and also for making the IG's more fundamentalist evangelical-friendly and the science guides more YE-friendly were all the same reason----namely, that Sarita was at the helm and had to follow her conscience which dictated a stricter adherence to her worldview which she believed to be the correct Christian worldview.

 

Does anybody remember that reasoning and explanation? It came in an email or two, to all the customers on their email list.

 

I'm not one to argue with somebody else's conscience, and I am also aware that CHEC and other hs orgs were making life uncomfy for SL as they deemed SL too liberal and not Christian enough for conventions, etc. So all of that put together explains the updated IG's and science materials.

 

But then we have this. Secularizing SL, removing the religious references, to market it to public schools. Whatever happened to conscience, worldview, Christian mission, the ONLY Christian way to educate children, etc? Is there an inconsistency here or not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish I'd saved Sarita's emails after the Catholics were kicked off the forums, when the new elementary and science IG's were rolled out, about how her integrity called for only providing evangelical Christian materials as her Christian mission or something like that. Does anyone know which email I mean? Did anyone save it?

 

Edited to add: I'm not on some vendetta to slander or discredit Sonlight. I was a faithful customer for a long time and I own tons of SL curriculum, but I'm not a current customer. I don't like recent business practices but I don't take them personally and have no axe to grind. I'm just trying to figure this out. I am sure that the reasons given for marginalizing forum members and running them off, and also for making the IG's more fundamentalist evangelical-friendly and the science guides more YE-friendly were all the same reason----namely, that Sarita was at the helm and had to follow her conscience which dictated a stricter adherence to her worldview which she believed to be the correct Christian worldview.

 

Does anybody remember that reasoning and explanation? It came in an email or two, to all the customers on their email list.

 

I'm not one to argue with somebody else's conscience, and I am also aware that CHEC and other hs orgs were making life uncomfy for SL as they deemed SL too liberal and not Christian enough for conventions, etc. So all of that put together explains the updated IG's and science materials.

 

But then we have this. Secularizing SL, removing the religious references, to market it to public schools. Whatever happened to conscience, worldview, Christian mission, the ONLY Christian way to educate children, etc? Is there an inconsistency here or not?

 

 

If you want you can PM me and I can give you a copy. I printed it out back then and put it in my IG.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want you can PM me and I can give you a copy. I printed it out back then and put it in my IG.

 

 

Thank you, but I guess I don't have anything to do with it, really. Just wanted some confirmation that I hadn't dreamed it up myself. LOL

 

Do you agree with what I said? Was that the gist of the email or did I hone in on something that wasn't the main point?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish I'd saved Sarita's emails after the Catholics were kicked off the forums, when the new elementary and science IG's were rolled out, about how her integrity called for only providing evangelical Christian materials as her Christian mission or something like that. Does anyone know which email I mean? Did anyone save it?

 

Edited to add: I'm not on some vendetta to slander or discredit Sonlight. I was a faithful customer for a long time and I own tons of SL curriculum, but I'm not a current customer. I don't like recent business practices but I don't take them personally and have no axe to grind. I'm just trying to figure this out. I am sure that the reasons given for marginalizing forum members and running them off, and also for making the IG's more fundamentalist evangelical-friendly and the science guides more YE-friendly were all the same reason----namely, that Sarita was at the helm and had to follow her conscience which dictated a stricter adherence to her worldview which she believed to be the correct Christian worldview.

 

Does anybody remember that reasoning and explanation? It came in an email or two, to all the customers on their email list.

 

I'm not one to argue with somebody else's conscience, and I am also aware that CHEC and other hs orgs were making life uncomfy for SL as they deemed SL too liberal and not Christian enough for conventions, etc. So all of that put together explains the updated IG's and science materials.

 

But then we have this. Secularizing SL, removing the religious references, to market it to public schools. Whatever happened to conscience, worldview, Christian mission, the ONLY Christian way to educate children, etc? Is there an inconsistency here or not?

 

 

Well, since they are denying that Sonlight has any involvement with this, and only a "parent company" does I guess that is how they can stick to thier values and pull the shades over their customers' eyes. It has certainly left a bad taste in my mouth, and has taken a direction completely surprising to me from my first shock over this yesterday.

 

(and on a completely somewhat unrelated note, when googling "BrightFlash" along with "Sonlight" The first thing that comes up is John Holzmann's pinterest page- I guess his username there is "BrightFlash")

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, hsmom10. I absolutely have no problem with secularized and Christianized curriculum coming from the same company. I do have a problem with the strong Christian missionary line that has been fed to homeschooling Christians through the storefront while de-Christianized products were quietly sold to public schools at the back door. That's not very honest. I'm still thinking through the ways I might be wrong about this but at the moment it smells.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they really want to be shady and claim this isn't them, you'd think they could learn to be a little more stealthy about it! I am not a customer of theirs and it took me less than 5 minutes to figure out they are trying to pull one over on their customers. Who do they think they are dealing with?? These are smart HS'ing parents who know how to research! People not to be messed with or fooled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest inoubliable

Three guesses who's been using "brightflash" as his user ID/screenname on the interwebs for years now.

 

Google brightflash sonlight.

 

Hahaha. Y'all are Internet Super Sleuths!

 

Seriously, though, when I googled "Sonlight secular" and searched for the last 24 hours, I only came across http://q4kids.blogspot.com/2013/03/sonlight-not-going-secular.html

Why aren't more of you blogging about this? Use the internet for good, and all that? Why aren't more people calling Sonlight out on this? I'm curious. Admittedly, I have no dog in this fight at all, but it does sound skeevy and sounds like just the sort of thing the internet loves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Hahaha. Y'all are Internet Super Sleuths!

 

Seriously, though, when I googled "Sonlight secular" and searched for the last 24 hours, I only came across http://q4kids.blogsp...ng-secular.html

Why aren't more of you blogging about this? Use the internet for good, and all that? Why aren't more people calling Sonlight out on this? I'm curious. Admittedly, I have no dog in this fight at all, but it does sound skeevy and sounds like just the sort of thing the internet loves.

 

I guess I just really don't expect long-term integrity from any company anymore. I'm getting rather jaded.

 

Also, I don't think I'm smarter than anybody else; I have spent a total of 20 minutes or less on this topic today including the googling and analyzing. So anybody could do the same if they cared, and if they don't care, why would they listen to me? And to continue with my cynical train of thought here, why do I care whether they care? LOL I do like to sort stuff out to see if I want to change my buying habits or whatever, but that's the extent of my concern lately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Thank you, but I guess I don't have anything to do with it, really. Just wanted some confirmation that I hadn't dreamed it up myself. LOL

 

Do you agree with what I said? Was that the gist of the email or did I hone in on something that wasn't the main point?

 

Yes, I agree with what you said. It revolved around Sarita having read Total Truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hahaha. Y'all are Internet Super Sleuths!

 

Seriously, though, when I googled "Sonlight secular" and searched for the last 24 hours, I only came across http://q4kids.blogsp...ng-secular.html

Why aren't more of you blogging about this? Use the internet for good, and all that? Why aren't more people calling Sonlight out on this? I'm curious. Admittedly, I have no dog in this fight at all, but it does sound skeevy and sounds like just the sort of thing the internet loves.

 

bow.gif to the mighty search engine. It really doesn't take much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Hahaha. Y'all are Internet Super Sleuths!

 

Seriously, though, when I googled "Sonlight secular" and searched for the last 24 hours, I only came across http://q4kids.blogsp...ng-secular.html

Why aren't more of you blogging about this? Use the internet for good, and all that? Why aren't more people calling Sonlight out on this? I'm curious. Admittedly, I have no dog in this fight at all, but it does sound skeevy and sounds like just the sort of thing the internet loves.

 

 

Even if I was a Sonlight user, which I'm not, I wouldn't blog about it and shout it from the rooftops. I figure there are plenty of other people out there who would love to spread negativity (or submit a critical review, etc.) There's no reason for me to dog on my brothers and sisters in Christ who made a business decision. Admittedly, it sounds like a bad one, but there's always room for grace. I'd much rather use the internet to tout the things I find fantastic or brings joy to others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Even if I was a Sonlight user, which I'm not, I wouldn't blog about it and shout it from the rooftops. I figure there are plenty of other people out there who would love to spread negativity (or submit a critical review, etc.) There's no reason for me to dog on my brothers and sisters in Christ who made a business decision. Admittedly, it sounds like a bad one, but there's always room for grace. I'd much rather use the internet to tout the things I find fantastic or brings joy to others.

 

 

Georgiana, with all due respect, it isn't about spreading negativity but, spreading awareness.

And it isn't about SL's business decision, it's about the way they chose to hide/deny that business decision.

My issue with SL is that they aren't being forthright about this matter and that weighs in heavily with regard to whether I will do business with them in the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Georgiana, with all due respect, it isn't about spreading negativity but, spreading awareness.

And it isn't about SL's business decision, it's about the way they chose to hide/deny that business decision.

My issue with SL is that they aren't being forthright about this matter and that weighs in heavily with regard to whether I will do business with them in the future.

 

That's understandable. I think it's important to be wise stewards of our money and where/how it's spent. That said, some people feel called to sound an alarm--and that's fine--I'm just saying that's not my personality type. Hopefully whatever constitutes spreading awareness is done in a spirit of love and gentle rebuke instead of with a critical spirit that sometimes can come through when we're (whoever) is passionate about something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

That's understandable. I think it's important to be wise stewards of our money and where/how it's spent. That said, some people feel called to sound an alarm--and that's fine--I'm just saying that's not my personality type. Hopefully whatever constitutes spreading awareness is done in a spirit of love and gentle rebuke instead of with a critical spirit that sometimes can come through when we're (whoever) is passionate about something.

 

Yes, I agree, thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I once worked for a non-profit organization, a professional society for engineers. The non-profit org owned several independent for-profit businesses; it was all totally legal, and the main organization was able to keep it's non-profit status. The employees of the for-profit companies worked under the same roof as those of us who worked for the non-profit org. We had meetings together, we planned together, and we did shows and conventions together. The directors of these for-profit businesses were also considered directors of the non-profit organization. However, these other businesses were still legally considered to be separate companies. Companies own other companies all the time, and it's not slimy, nor is it illegal. I don't see what Sonlight is doing as any different. And I don't think this business decision of theirs has anything to do with the traditional Sonlight program, and I really don't feel I need to know about the rest of their business anyhow; it doesn't concern me. All I am concerned about is the Sonlight Curriculum that I use. And maybe I'm just a wee bit jealous of people who can use charter funds to buy Sonlight materials. That, perhaps, I wish I didn't know, since it is highly unlikely that my state will ever have such an option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I asked Sonlight specifically about this. Here is Luke's answer:

 

Tricia, short, short, short answer: No. That is not true. <smile> Slightly longer answer: Sonlight's parent company is working to create secular content--based largely on Sonlight--to offer public schoolers. A representative of Sonlight's parent company had an interview with a local paper to talk about these plans. The paper erroneously used Sonlight's name, which will, naturally, be far more eye-catching: "Christian company Sonlight is going secular!" ...but the reality is far less buzz-worthy. Sonlight is staying exactly as it is.

 

I know Judy is working up a more detailed response for the Forums, so you can probably learn more there later today. I just wanted to give you a gist of what's going on and alleviate any concerns you may have. Sonlight is, as ever, committed to our values and serving you.

 

Hope that helps!

Then he said this, to someone else's question:

 

I can try to make it make more sense, Laurel <smile>. Sonlight was founded as it's own company back in 1990. Years later John and Sarita discovered that some people who wanted materials they were making could not acquire them simply because the company

was Christian. Wanting to reach the maximum number of people with great educational resources--such as Discover & Do, MathTacular, and some stellar books--John and Sarita started the parent/umbrella company. This provides many benefits in the business world, such as creating materials for many difference audiences. Sonlight is, itself, it's own company and not an offshoot at all. Sonlight hasn't changed and continues to hold to our values and mission. In some senses, the "parent company" is the offshoot.

 

By having a parent company, we can use Sonlight's IP (intellectual property) in more spaces than simply the homeschool world. That's why you'll find things like MathTacular elsewhere on the web. [i keep using the DVDs as examples because I made them <smile>] This means the parent company can also use Sonlight's great IG layout, as an example, as a jumping off point for developing resources for public schools too.

 

Judy has a great post response about this over on the Forums:https://forums.sonlight.com/topic/332019-are-you-a-true-christian-company-or-a-company-that-sells-christian-material/

 

Does that make more sense?

 

 

~Luke.

 

And there you have it, straight from the horse's mouth. 8)

 

I'm offended by his improper use of "it's" as a possessive.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even if I was a Sonlight user, which I'm not, I wouldn't blog about it and shout it from the rooftops. I figure there are plenty of other people out there who would love to spread negativity (or submit a critical review, etc.) There's no reason for me to dog on my brothers and sisters in Christ who made a business decision. Admittedly, it sounds like a bad one, but there's always room for grace. I'd much rather use the internet to tout the things I find fantastic or brings joy to others.

 

 

Yes, as an above poster said, this is spreading awareness. And how quickly it has been forgotten how last year at this very time, they were not only telling us that their curriculum had been updated to include more of a "Christian" stance, it was all in a very specific -- non-Catholic, non-any-other-not Sarita's kind -- of religion. Is this a 180-degree about-face or not?

 

The mystery is that on their forums, people have asked for secular for absolute YEARS. Last year they identified more strongly than ever the absolute necessity of their very particular CHRISTIAN stance (which offended many, even long-time customers).

 

Why would they not want to announce a secular version -- seeing that they are offering such a thing -- to customers who have asked for it. And why act like they are not affiliated with Sonlight parent company (which was established by John and Sarita after the development of Sonlight curriculum)?

 

Now that customers know that a secular offering is possible -- are they going to deny its purchase by homeschoolers at large? How can they offer it, if they deny that they are at all related? That is so lame. Even here in this thread have been responses that hey, even I might buy it now. I see this product marketed to a charter school of sorts within a public school distrist. Have they offered it to homeschoolers? No, to us they are not affiliated and one has nothing to do with the other. What kind of smart business decision is that?

 

Elsewhere in the homeschool businesses I have known over 20 years, vendors are so upfront. Hey, here's how were changing. Sonlight is not like that -- at all. So many things are found out this way -- with very little Internet research actually -- and then denied by Sonlight, with Judy playing the part for a long time that she does not understand what the question is and/or telling people that we are not their main customers and we just don't understand. Misinformation, that is what she tells us we have. All these facts on the internet? Just misinformation. Yes, I believe that, I do. Just like I believe in their THUMB theology and providential Christian manifest destiny to rule and reign over America.

 

This is what is bothersome about Sonlight. It really has nothing to do with this particular move by this company at this time. It is a very, very long history of bad PR decisions. Note I said bad PR decisions, not necessarily bad financial decisions. Sonlight has often failed to see that PR affects their business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And maybe this bothers me personally more than anything.

 

Yes, people have asked for a secular Sonlight for years. And seems to me that they should announce such a development to their customers first, since they place a great deal of emphasis on the fact that they "listen to their customers."

 

Sonlight is adding to their long history of bad PR decisions, most especially among long-time Sonlight users. The "feeling of wrongness" has been brewing for years over there, with entire public forums "poofed" in their entirety at times. Nothing dismisses a person's opinion so much as to just pretend they aren't there and erase all proof that anything was ever said. Now their forums are private and that keeps the riff-raff out.

 

Feeling of wrongness? Yes. But it's not the first time.

This totally made me crack up. Yes this is a not the first time situation especially if you have been around a long time

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't realize how this has progressed! I felt they should stand behind their product being Christian, and not secular, as stated on their website. I don't have a problem with different options, but I feel like they should stand behind what they state.

 

I have always been rubbed the wrong way by SL and I haven't ever really known why, I couldn't put my finger on it. However, one reason is their book selection, and as I read on the 27 reason TO and NOT to buy SL, that of course is one topic. Many of their books are fine, but a few of them, I don't like at all. What I did find, is that IMHO, their lists of the 27 reasons are not good marketing, at least the 27 reasons NOT to. Sure, honesty about the curriculum is good, but all the same is included in the 27 reasons TO buy the program. The summery's under each topic, came off to me as smug, and almost made me feel like I was wrong, for not agreeing with their standpoint, that I would be failing my child to not introduce such topics at a young age and so on. That doesn't need to be included in getting people to buy the product. In fact, it should be limited to a summery of what they stand by (though it seems like they don't even know!) and why they feel like their curriculum is beneficial.

 

I got the feeling of, "well if you want quality, than go with us, if not, too bad for you, go find yourself another little curriculum, just know it won't be as good." Multiple references to their literature options each being a "masterpiece" seems overly confident IMO. There is a lot of good literature out there for goodness sake! Why do they come off as entitled to be "better" than everyone else?

 

It states on their website that they also make changes a lot. They say that as they grow and as they learn over time, they find things that they like better or work better and so on. Change isn't bad in all cases, but to admit to changing things frequently, it's a disappointment for those who stay with them long term, and hold onto their curriculum for following children.

 

I feel like they are trying too hard. I don't know anything about their prior decisions or standpoints, but for a curriculum I already wasn't fond of (though I've window shopped their website numerous times, and added things to my cart...just never purchased) SL would never be an option for me. I don't buy it for a second that it was not them. After all, it is their SL symbol, it IS an employee listed on their site, their company IS "Sonlight Curriculum, Ltd" It's all actually very silly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is what is bothersome about Sonlight. It really has nothing to do with this particular move by this company at this time. It is a very, very long history of bad PR decisions. Note I said bad PR decisions, not necessarily bad financial decisions. Sonlight has often failed to see that PR affects their business.

bolding is mine.

 

 

My husband and I were just discussing this last night. My degree is in PR and I cringe when I see them handling a PR issue. The current issue is just one of many PR failures Sonlight has had in recent years. I like Sonlight, I have used it mostly secularized more than once.

 

Last year we decided not to give them anymore of our money due to the response to questions regarding the re adding of previously objectionable material. They added back in providential history content that they had removed it because the book was objectionable in the past. The dissemination of information always felt shady so we couldn't in good conscious spend money with them.

 

I was initially excited with this new direction they might be taking to share such an excellent program with others. My excitement died quickly when it felt we were being misled and lied to again.

 

Part of the problem is my personal expectation that Sonlight works to a higher standard, they aren't "just a business". I think many many years ago they were more devoted to that purpose. Now, they are just a business. Perhaps if I just accepted that I could view them with more equanimity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If i'm remembering correctly, InquisiCorp is the company John H of Sonlight started to produce things that didn't align with the Sonlight focus, i.e., religious.

 

I believe the science CDs are their product.

 

I'm going on memory here, but I remember when this happened - except maybe not it becoming SLs parent company.

I don't think it was started for things that didn't align, but I think they just were making some business decisions. One of them was the need to produce materials that SL needed. Not sure why SL didn't produce them but it was probably to spread things around financially. InquisiCorp prints some of the books SL uses, some of the IG materials-not all but just some I THINK, the math and science CDs out of print books etc.

 

Yes somewhere in there AND maybe from the very beginning it became SL's parent company. I know it has been that way for several years. The Parent company question has come up before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not just good ol' generic Christian hypocrisy in this case. Sonlight has worked very hard to isolate and rid themselves of the wrong kind of Christian. Unless you've been involved on the forums there, you really have no idea how horribly they've treated people who didn't fall in line with Sarita's worldview. It's the huge inconsistency between how they've treated other Christians and this new development of secularizing their curriculum to sell to public schools. And this run-around about it not being Sonlight but InquisiCorp is just completely ridiculous, and again indicative of the way they operate. I read the Facebook and Sonlight forum posts and they were intentionally trying to distance Sonlight from the decision which is ridiculous. John and Sarita Holzmann own Inquisicorp, not some shady foreign businessmen making decisions without their knowledge or consent.

 

ETA: it is very easy to look up the ownership of the companies. They even share an address. The employees are "shared." It blows my mind that they expect people to buy the idea that this is some decision that "they" had nothing to do with. The whole point of setting up the alternate company in the first place, we were told, was so that they could sell products to people in areas who weren't able to buy things from a "Christian" company because it was outlawed or dangerous.

yes I think you totally nailed the issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meh...Sort of seems like they are selling out for the almighty dollar. I don't have a huge (just a small) issue with it though they are still offering their same materials, and kids will be educated. I personally have not looked at much of their curriculum because it is expensive maybe contracts with PS will lower prices for HS'ers. doubt it lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I asked Sonlight specifically about this. Here is Luke's answer:

 

Tricia, short, short, short answer: No. That is not true. <smile> Slightly longer answer: Sonlight's parent company is working to create secular content--based largely on Sonlight--to offer public schoolers. A representative of Sonlight's parent company had an interview with a local paper to talk about these plans. The paper erroneously used Sonlight's name, which will, naturally, be far more eye-catching: "Christian company Sonlight is going secular!" ...but the reality is far less buzz-worthy. Sonlight is staying exactly as it is.

 

 

I know Judy is working up a more detailed response for the Forums, so you can probably learn more there later today. I just wanted to give you a gist of what's going on and alleviate any concerns you may have. Sonlight is, as ever, committed to our values and serving you.

 

 

Hope that helps!

 

Then he said this, to someone else's question:

 

I can try to make it make more sense, Laurel <smile>. Sonlight was founded as it's own company back in 1990. Years later John and Sarita discovered that some people who wanted materials they were making could not acquire them simply because the company

was Christian. Wanting to reach the maximum number of people with great educational resources--such as Discover & Do, MathTacular, and some stellar books--John and Sarita started the parent/umbrella company. This provides many benefits in the business world, such as creating materials for many difference audiences. Sonlight is, itself, it's own company and not an offshoot at all. Sonlight hasn't changed and continues to hold to our values and mission. In some senses, the "parent company" is the offshoot.

 

By having a parent company, we can use Sonlight's IP (intellectual property) in more spaces than simply the homeschool world. That's why you'll find things like MathTacular elsewhere on the web. [i keep using the DVDs as examples because I made them <smile>] This means the parent company can also use Sonlight's great IG layout, as an example, as a jumping off point for developing resources for public schools too.

 

Judy has a great post response about this over on the Forums:https://forums.sonli...stian-material/

 

Does that make more sense?

 

 

 

~Luke.

 

 

And there you have it, straight from the horse's mouth. 8)

 

 

<smile> really?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...