AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I want to outsource a few of Autumn's courses this fall. The only school (a university model school) that allows homeschoolers to enroll is protestant with a SOF that I can't sign, in its current state. I e-mailed the admin about whether or not the SOF was necessary for classes that generally do not bring religion to the table (as I'm really only interested in world geography, maybe math, art appreciation, speech and debate) - she replied asking what exactly in the SOF I would need to "do without" in order to sign it - inferring that it may be a possibility on the table to "do without" a couple things (or maybe it was wishful thinking on my end, lol). Can you read this over for me and help me out? I want to make sure I'm not leaving anything out, that I should tell her I need to "cross out". What I've already crossed out on my own is highlighted. As many of you know, I'm a revert, so it's been a while and I'm still learning as I go with the kiddos. TIA.  The Bible We believe that the original manuscripts of the Old and New Testament comprise the full, word-for-word, truthful, inerrant Word of God which is the supreme and final authority in doctrine and practice. (Isa. 40:8, II Tim. 3:16-17; Heb. 4:12; II Pet. 1:20,21) The Father We believe that as Eternal Father, He is the Father of all men in the non-salvation, Creator-creature sense, the Father of the nation Israel, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the spiritual Father of all who believe in Christ. He is the author of salvation, the One who sent the Son, and the disciplinarian of His children. (Ex. 4:22; Ps. 2:7-9; Jn. 5:37; Acts 17:29; Gal. 3:26; Eph. 1:3-6; Heb. 12:9; I Pet. 1:3) The Person and Work of Jesus Christ We believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, completely God and completely man. We believe in His pre-existence, His sinless life, His substitutionary atonement, His bodily resurrection from the grave, His ascension into Heaven, and His bodily return from Heaven. (Jn. 1:1,14,18; Lk. 1:35; Rom 3:24-26; 4:25; 1 Pet. 1:3-5; Eph. 4:11-16; I Thess. 4:13-18; Heb. 1:3; 7:23-25; 1 Jn. 2:1-2) The Holy Spirit At the time of conversion, we believe that the Holy Spirit regenerates, indwells, baptizes, seals, and bestows spiritual gifts upon all who know Christ as Lord and Savior. Experientially, He fills, teaches, leads, assures, and prays for believers. (Jn.14:26; 16:6-15; Acts 1:5; 2:1-4; 11:1-18; Rom. 8:14-16, 26-27; 1 Cor. 6:19; 12:7-11, 13; Eph. 1:13-14; 5:18; 2 Thess. 2:1-10; Titus 3:5). The Trinity In the unity of the Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father is neither begotten, nor proceeding: The Son is eternally begotten of the Father: the Holy Spirit eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son. (1 John 5:7; Mat. 3:16; Mat. 28:19, 2 Cor.13:14; John 1:14; John 15:26; Gal. 4:6) Man and Sin We believe man was created in the image of God; that Adam in his first sin condemned not only himself but all mankind to an estate of sin. All of mankind in Adam is now separated from God and in need of a redeemer. (Gen. 1:1,27; 2:17; 3:1-19; Isa. 14:12-14; Lk. 20:36; Heb. 1:13-14; 2:5-8; I Pet. 2:4; Jude 6; Jn. 12:31; Heb. 2:14; Rev. 20:10; Jn. 1:1-3; 8:44; Col. 1:16-17; Rom. 5:12-21; Eph. 2:1-3). Salvation Ă¢â‚¬Å“In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His gloryĂ¢â‚¬ (Eph. 1:11-14). We affirm that these believers are eternally secure, have everlasting life, will not come into condemnation, and shall never perish. We believe that assurance comes to the believer from three primary means: trusting the Word of GodĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s promises, the witness of the Holy Spirit, and a persevering walk with the Lord. (Jn. 1:12; 2:3,16; 2 Cor. 5:17-21; Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:4-7; Dan. 12:1-2; Mt. 25:31-46; Jn. 3:16,36; 5:24; 10:28-29; 11:25-26; Rom. 8:28-39; I Jn. 4:11-13; Jude 1; Rev. 20:12-15). The Church We believe in the Church, both universally and locally, as the spiritual body of which Christ is the Head. The church exercises ChristĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s authority until His return. We also believe that the church is entrusted with the sacraments of baptism and the LordĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s supper. (Mt. 16:18; cf. Acts 1:5; 11:15; and 1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:22-23; 4:11-16; 5:22-23; Col. 1:18). The Great Commission We believe that those whom God has saved are sent into the world by Christ as He was by the Father. Those so sent are ambassadors, commissioned to go make disciples and make Christ known to the whole world. (Mt. 28:18-20; Jn. 15:8; 17:18; 20:21; Acts 1; Rom. 10:14-15; 2 Cor. 5:18-20; Col. 4:2-6; 2 Tim. 2:14-26). Eternity We believe in the physical resurrection of the human body (at the second coming of Christ); in the eternal conscious existence of all individuals in either Heaven or Hell; and in the rewards of the saved and the punishment of the lost for eternity. (I Cor. 15; Luke 16:19-31; 2 Cor. 5:8-10; I Cor. 3:11-15).  Then there were the five solas of the reformation at the bottom of the SOF (I believe all of these would need to "go", correct?): Sola Fide - By faith alone Sola Gratia - By grace alone Solo Christo - By Christ alone Sola Scriptura - On the Word of God alone Soli Deo Gloria - To God alone be the glory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Can't you use Seton? Â I wouldn't waste my time rewriting a SOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Can't you use Seton? Â I wouldn't waste my time rewriting a SOF. Â No - I want to outsource to an on site, local school or tutor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Ah, gotcha. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Ah, gotcha. (Autumn and I are having some normal, mother-daughter distance issues - as in, we need some - and I think this would be a good compromise, lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeritasMama Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't have time to go through the whole thing, but the highlighted parts were definately no-nos, were some other gray areas as well. For instance, since the statement of faith only mentions two sacraments, you may want to put in the other 5, as you do not want to be agreeing with the Protestant belief in the number of sacraments. There were others that didn't sound quite right to me, but I'm not enough of an expert to really comment. Â Another problem I would have is with all of the Bible verses, as the Protestant Bible is quite a bit different from the Catholic Bible, as is the interpretation of the meaning of different verses. Obviously, you don't have time to look up all of these verses and see if they are being translated or cited in a way that contradicts Catholic doctrine or dogma. (Or maybe you do, I don't think I would :) Â Couldn't you just sign a copy of the Apostles Creed? Maybe they would accept that as a statement of faith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I was going to suggest the Apostle's Creed also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Â Couldn't you just sign a copy of the Apostles Creed? Maybe they would accept that as a statement of faith? Â Â :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 or Nicene Creed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 or Nicene Creed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I want to outsource a few of Autumn's courses this fall. The only school (a university model school) that allows homeschoolers to enroll is protestant with a SOF that I can't sign, in its current state. I e-mailed the admin about whether or not the SOF was necessary for classes that generally do not bring religion to the table (as I'm really only interested in world geography, maybe math, art appreciation, speech and debate) - she replied asking what exactly in the SOF I would need to "do without" in order to sign it - inferring that it may be a possibility on the table to "do without" a couple things (or maybe it was wishful thinking on my end, lol). Can you read this over for me and help me out? I want to make sure I'm not leaving anything out, that I should tell her I need to "cross out". What I've already crossed out on my own is highlighted. As many of you know, I'm a revert, so it's been a while and I'm still learning as I go with the kiddos. TIA.  The Bible We believe that the original manuscripts of the Old and New Testament comprise the full, word-for-word, truthful, inerrant Word of God which is the supreme and final authority in doctrine and practice. (Isa. 40:8, II Tim. 3:16-17; Heb. 4:12; II Pet. 1:20,21) The Father We believe that as Eternal Father, He is the Father of all men in the non-salvation, Creator-creature sense, the Father of the nation Israel, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the spiritual Father of all who believe in Christ. He is the author of salvation, the One who sent the Son, and the disciplinarian of His children. (Ex. 4:22; Ps. 2:7-9; Jn. 5:37; Acts 17:29; Gal. 3:26; Eph. 1:3-6; Heb. 12:9; I Pet. 1:3) The Person and Work of Jesus Christ We believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, completely God and completely man. We believe in His pre-existence, His sinless life, His substitutionary atonement, His bodily resurrection from the grave, His ascension into Heaven, and His bodily return from Heaven. (Jn. 1:1,14,18; Lk. 1:35; Rom 3:24-26; 4:25; 1 Pet. 1:3-5; Eph. 4:11-16; I Thess. 4:13-18; Heb. 1:3; 7:23-25; 1 Jn. 2:1-2) The Holy Spirit At the time of conversion, we believe that the Holy Spirit regenerates, indwells, baptizes, seals, and bestows spiritual gifts upon all who know Christ as Lord and Savior. Experientially, He fills, teaches, leads, assures, and prays for believers. (Jn.14:26; 16:6-15; Acts 1:5; 2:1-4; 11:1-18; Rom. 8:14-16, 26-27; 1 Cor. 6:19; 12:7-11, 13; Eph. 1:13-14; 5:18; 2 Thess. 2:1-10; Titus 3:5). The Trinity In the unity of the Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father is neither begotten, nor proceeding: The Son is eternally begotten of the Father: the Holy Spirit eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son. (1 John 5:7; Mat. 3:16; Mat. 28:19, 2 Cor.13:14; John 1:14; John 15:26; Gal. 4:6) Man and Sin We believe man was created in the image of God; that Adam in his first sin condemned not only himself but all mankind to an estate of sin. All of mankind in Adam is now separated from God and in need of a redeemer. (Gen. 1:1,27; 2:17; 3:1-19; Isa. 14:12-14; Lk. 20:36; Heb. 1:13-14; 2:5-8; I Pet. 2:4; Jude 6; Jn. 12:31; Heb. 2:14; Rev. 20:10; Jn. 1:1-3; 8:44; Col. 1:16-17; Rom. 5:12-21; Eph. 2:1-3). Salvation Ă¢â‚¬Å“In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His gloryĂ¢â‚¬ (Eph. 1:11-14). We affirm that these believers are eternally secure, have everlasting life, will not come into condemnation, and shall never perish. We believe that assurance comes to the believer from three primary means: trusting the Word of GodĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s promises, the witness of the Holy Spirit, and a persevering walk with the Lord. (Jn. 1:12; 2:3,16; 2 Cor. 5:17-21; Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:4-7; Dan. 12:1-2; Mt. 25:31-46; Jn. 3:16,36; 5:24; 10:28-29; 11:25-26; Rom. 8:28-39; I Jn. 4:11-13; Jude 1; Rev. 20:12-15). The Church We believe in the Church, both universally and locally, as the spiritual body of which Christ is the Head. The church exercises ChristĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s authority until His return. We also believe that the church is entrusted with the sacraments of baptism and the LordĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s supper. (Mt. 16:18; cf. Acts 1:5; 11:15; and 1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:22-23; 4:11-16; 5:22-23; Col. 1:18). The Great Commission We believe that those whom God has saved are sent into the world by Christ as He was by the Father. Those so sent are ambassadors, commissioned to go make disciples and make Christ known to the whole world. (Mt. 28:18-20; Jn. 15:8; 17:18; 20:21; Acts 1; Rom. 10:14-15; 2 Cor. 5:18-20; Col. 4:2-6; 2 Tim. 2:14-26). Eternity We believe in the physical resurrection of the human body (at the second coming of Christ); in the eternal conscious existence of all individuals in either Heaven or Hell; and in the rewards of the saved and the punishment of the lost for eternity. (I Cor. 15; Luke 16:19-31; 2 Cor. 5:8-10; I Cor. 3:11-15).  Then there were the five solas of the reformation at the bottom of the SOF (I believe all of these would need to "go", correct?): Sola Fide - By faith alone Sola Gratia - By grace alone Solo Christo - By Christ alone Sola Scriptura - On the Word of God alone Soli Deo Gloria - To God alone be the glory   Definitely the text in red. Definitely the solas at the bottom. "The Church" is iffy, since you know it doesn't refer to the Catholic Church (besides the fact that it doesn't list all of the sacraments).  "The Holy Spirit" bothers me but I haven't been Catholic long enough to say exactly why. We don't believe in a conversion experience the way most Protestants do. We believe the Holy Spirit indwells at baptism.  I'm sure there are other things I'm missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 I was going to suggest the Apostle's Creed also  I doubt it. I can ask, but I was told that they need THEIR sof, in some capacity, not *a* sof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The Bible We believe that the original manuscripts of the Old and New Testament comprise the full, word-for-word, truthful, inerrant Word of God which is the supreme and final authority in doctrine and practice. (Isa. 40:8, II Tim. 3:16-17; Heb. 4:12; II Pet. 1:20,21) The Father We believe that as Eternal Father, He is the Father of all men in the non-salvation, Creator-creature sense, the Father of the nation Israel, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the spiritual Father of all who believe in Christ. He is the author of salvation, the One who sent the Son, and the disciplinarian of His children. (Ex. 4:22; Ps. 2:7-9; Jn. 5:37; Acts 17:29; Gal. 3:26; Eph. 1:3-6; Heb. 12:9; I Pet. 1:3) The Person and Work of Jesus Christ We believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin (should read "born of the Blessed Virgin Mary" , completely God and completely man. We believe in His pre-existence, His sinless life, His substitutionary atonement (Catholics don't believe in this. We believe in Aquinas' Satisfaction Theory of Atonement), His bodily resurrection from the grave, His ascension into Heaven, and His bodily return from Heaven. (Jn. 1:1,14,18; Lk. 1:35; Rom 3:24-26; 4:25; 1 Pet. 1:3-5; Eph. 4:11-16; I Thess. 4:13-18; Heb. 1:3; 7:23-25; 1 Jn. 2:1-2) The Holy Spirit At the time of conversion (Baptism) , we believe that the Holy Spirit regenerates, indwells, baptizes, seals, and bestows spiritual gifts upon all who know Christ as Lord and Savior. Experientially, He fills, teaches, leads, assures, and prays for believers. All of this is bad. Baptism has six primary effects, which are all supernatural graces: The removal of the guilt of both Original Sin (the sin imparted to all mankind by the Fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden) and personal sin (the sins that we have committed ourselves). The remission of all punishment that we owe because of sin, both temporal (in this world and in Purgatory) and eternal (the punishment that we would suffer in hell). The infusion of grace in the form of sanctifying grace (the life of God within us); the seven gits of the Holy Sprint; and the three theological virtues. Becoming a part of Christ. Becoming a part of the Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ on earth. Enabling participation in the sacraments, the priesthood of all believers, and the growth in grace.   (Jn.14:26; 16:6-15; Acts 1:5; 2:1-4; 11:1-18; Rom. 8:14-16, 26-27; 1 Cor. 6:19; 12:7-11, 13; Eph. 1:13-14; 5:18; 2 Thess. 2:1-10; Titus 3:5). The Trinity In the unity of the Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father is neither begotten, nor proceeding: The Son is eternally begotten of the Father (Consubstantial with the Father): the Holy Spirit eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son. (1 John 5:7; Mat. 3:16; Mat. 28:19, 2 Cor.13:14; John 1:14; John 15:26; Gal. 4:6) Man and Sin We believe man was created in the image of God; that Adam in his first sin condemned not only himself but all mankind to an estate of sin. All of mankind in Adam is now separated from God and in need of a redeemer. (Gen. 1:1,27; 2:17; 3:1-19; Isa. 14:12-14; Lk. 20:36; Heb. 1:13-14; 2:5-8; I Pet. 2:4; Jude 6; Jn. 12:31; Heb. 2:14; Rev. 20:10; Jn. 1:1-3; 8:44; Col. 1:16-17; Rom. 5:12-21; Eph. 2:1-3). Salvation Ă¢â‚¬Å“In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His gloryĂ¢â‚¬ (Eph. 1:11-14). We affirm that these believers are eternally secure, have everlasting life, will not come into condemnation, and shall never perish. We believe that assurance comes to the believer from three primary means: trusting the Word of GodĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s promises, the witness of the Holy Spirit, and a persevering walk with the Lord. (Jn. 1:12; 2:3,16; 2 Cor. 5:17-21; Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:4-7; Dan. 12:1-2; Mt. 25:31-46; Jn. 3:16,36; 5:24; 10:28-29; 11:25-26; Rom. 8:28-39; I Jn. 4:11-13; Jude 1; Rev. 20:12-15). The Church We believe in the Church, both universally and locally, as the spiritual body of which Christ is the Head. The church exercises ChristĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s authority until His return. We also believe that the church is entrusted with the sacraments of baptism and the LordĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s supper. (Mt. 16:18; cf. Acts 1:5; 11:15; and 1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:22-23; 4:11-16; 5:22-23; Col. 1:18). I'd have them capitalize each of those "church" I'd also list the other sacraments or "the church is entrusted with the 7 sacraments." The Great Commission We believe that those whom God has saved are sent into the world by Christ as He was by the Father. Those so sent are ambassadors, commissioned to go make disciples and make Christ known to the whole world. (Mt. 28:18-20; Jn. 15:8; 17:18; 20:21; Acts 1; Rom. 10:14-15; 2 Cor. 5:18-20; Col. 4:2-6; 2 Tim. 2:14-26). Eternity We believe in the physical resurrection of the human body (at the second coming of Christ); in the eternal conscious existence of all individuals in either Heaven or Hell; and in the rewards of the saved and the punishment of the lost for eternity. (I Cor. 15; Luke 16:19-31; 2 Cor. 5:8-10; I Cor. 3:11-15).  Then there were the five solas of the reformation at the bottom of the SOF (I believe all of these would need to "go", correct?): Sola Fide - By faith alone Sola Gratia - By grace alone Solo Christo - By Christ alone Sola Scriptura - On the Word of God alone Soli Deo Gloria - To God alone be the glory   We believe we are saved by God's grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work.  I'm with the others too. Just see if you can sign a copy of the Apostle's Creed.  (Sorry about all the edits. I took a quick glance at it the first time. Now I'm reading it more carefully) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 U am Orrhidox, not Catholic, but we run into similar issues. Â Could you ask if they would accept the Nicene Creed as your SOF? Their SOF sounds like a Reformed SOF, but most Reformed groups accept the Creed as one of their confessions. Â May I also suggest that you consider how welcome you would actually find yourself (and same for your daughter) in the co-op. it might work out ok, and I've seen situations where it does work out. But I've also seen situations where it hasn't worked out...and it's been ugly. Â Well, it isn't a co-op, it's a private school. I would definitely inquire as to how welcome she would be on campus, and I can't/won't tell her not to speak up if she hears something slanderous. Unfortunately her and I are at a puberty induced crossroads - there needs to be a compromise or she will need to go back to school, for the sake of our relationship. There are NO similar catholic or secular schools that allow homeschoolers to partially enroll :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Have you considered fully enrolling her in Catholic school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 http://angelicum.net/ Â Maybe this program is not sufficiently "outsourced" for you; however, I'm not clear on how free of involvement you want yourself to be. This is a solidly Catholic program which was flexible and friendly to my Orthodox family. Â OOPS. I just saw that you are looking at a brick-and-mortar school. Â I don't know what to say. The (Orthodox) friends of mine who have placed children in Protestant private schools definitely had their children hit smack in the face with whatever were the doctrinal inclinations of the school and staff. No quarter, in other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Have you considered fully enrolling her in Catholic school? Â I have. The only one with a program for dyslexic children is double the price as the others (to the tune of 10K plus incidental fees, once you enroll in the special classes and pay tuition) AND the program is brand spankin' new (we have no way of knowing how well it's working - and at that price, I want to know what we're getting into, lol). Public school is OFF the table; we would only consider Catholic school. Unfortunately, at this point in her remediation for her dyslexia, that isn't a great idea either. It's still a consideration, but we would need to hold her back a year to ensure she wouldn't be completely out of her league in language arts - which would put her at a definite loss in her strong areas (maths and science). It is still something we're considering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 http://angelicum.net/ Â Maybe this program is not sufficiently "outsourced" for you; however, I'm not clear on how free of involvement you want yourself to be. This is a solidly Catholic program which was flexible and friendly to my Orthodox family. Â We want out of the home outsourcing, but thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 We want out of the home outsourcing, but thanks for the link. Â Â Please see my revised post upstream. (I realized my error about what you were seeking.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 http://angelicum.net/ Â Maybe this program is not sufficiently "outsourced" for you; however, I'm not clear on how free of involvement you want yourself to be. This is a solidly Catholic program which was flexible and friendly to my Orthodox family. Â OOPS. I just saw that you are looking at a brick-and-mortar school. Â I don't know what to say. The (Orthodox) friends of mine who have placed children in Protestant private schools definitely had their children hit smack in the face with whatever were the doctrinal inclinations of the school and staff. No quarter, in other words. Â That's a bummer - and what I was afraid of. Do you think there would be issues if I only enrolled her in, say, classes like math, geography, and fine arts? I know, I know - probably. *sigh* I didn't think this plan of mine would work well, lol. Long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I agree with the PP about asking if you could sign a copy of the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed (might want to use a version that references the "Christian church" to avoid misunderstandings of what small-c "catholic" means). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Lol, I consider myself Protestant and I don't agree with it all... Â But I'll tell you what I did..... I signed them anyway. For one, it isn't anyone's business what your faith is or isn't. Both you and them are Christians, that is what is important. So even if you revamp it, you will end up signing it. The end result is sign and enroll. To me, the things I disagree with are minor. In the whole scheme of things the fuss may not matter. Â OTOH I completely get that you don't want to sign something you don't believe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Â That's a bummer - and what I was afraid of. Do you think there would be issues if I only enrolled her in, say, classes like math, geography, and fine arts? I know, I know - probably. *sigh* I didn't think this plan of mine would work well, lol. Long shot. Â Don't give up! Â I know you were thinking brick and mortor for some distance. Â BUT what about correspondence courses that are as hands off for you as possible ( not like Seton) coupled with more out of the house time like volunteer work or time spent with a mentor who is an expert in something your DD is interested in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Don't give up! Â I know you were thinking brick and mortor for some distance. Â BUT what about correspondence courses that are as hands off for you as possible ( not like Seton) coupled with more out of the house time like volunteer work or time spent with a mentor who is an expert in something your DD is interested in? She hates anything computer based (and that would only add to the sulky attitude), so most correspondence courses would be out of the question - and with the dyslexia component, anything that isn't computer based would require significant involvement from me, I'm afraid. Â To be fair to the kid, I'm not sure that it's her as much as it is her newly developed attitude (which really, compared to many her age that I know, isn't horrible by any means, lol) *combined with* the 9 month old who only takes one 30 minute nap a day and is still waking every hour on the hour at night - resulting in a mom who feels like she can barely function most of the day. Â Blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 To be perfectly honest, the attitude is a discipline issue. Sending her to school with a bunch of other girls with attitude will only reinforce the attitude. You very well may be digging yourself into deeper trouble with her. Maybe an in home nanny for the baby and toddler for a few hours a day would help more than sending her to school. You two can work on your relationship and her attitude during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithr Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I would be worried about such a specific sof. I've encountered ones that are that specific and usually it means they are rather hostile to those who don't conform and then I've encountered others who word their statement of faiths much more generally. These seem to be more tolerant of differing perspectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 To be perfectly honest, the attitude is a discipline issue. Sending her to school with a bunch of other girls with attitude will only reinforce the attitude. You very well may be digging yourself into deeper trouble with her. Maybe an in home nanny for the baby and toddler for a few hours a day would help more than sending her to school. You two can work on your relationship and her attitude during that time. I do sincerely appreciate the advice and, while I'm inclined to agree, there really isn't much to discipline - she doesn't refuse to do her work, roll her eyes, or act disrespectful; she's simply unhappy (noticeably) and it shows. I can't force her to be happy (and I don't want to force her to fake it either). She rolls her eyes about CHORES, but that's about it really (in terms of disrespect). She slipped the other day and said that she wishes I could just be her mom again, and not her teacher - that she hates our new dynamic (although we've been hs'ing for a couple years now). Unlike the boys, she's been to school and sincerely misses it. I feel like I need to respect that on some level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 ORTHODOX. Stupid auto-correct. Â Â What kind of messed up auto-correct will give you urrihdox or whatever instead of "orthodox"? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The same one that will give you "ince5t" for "incense." As in: "We have _______ at our church. I hope this will not bother you." Â Ă°Å¸ËœÂ±  :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Is there any way you could start your own co-op? Are you part of a homeschooling support group? Â We have done some outside classes for fun...art, p.e., music...and some (like chemistry) because I didn't want to teach it alone. Another mom and I did the class together, taking turns at our houses. We did the experiments at her house and the tests at my house, and we took turns making lesson plans every other week that the kids did at home in between the joint classes. Â Is this school really the only place in your area where you could send her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I do sincerely appreciate the advice and, while I'm inclined to agree, there really isn't much to discipline - she doesn't refuse to do her work, roll her eyes, or act disrespectful; she's simply unhappy (noticeably) and it shows. I can't force her to be happy (and I don't want to force her to fake it either). She rolls her eyes about CHORES, but that's about it really (in terms of disrespect). She slipped the other day and said that she wishes I could just be her mom again, and not her teacher - that she hates our new dynamic (although we've been hs'ing for a couple years now). Unlike the boys, she's been to school and sincerely misses it. I feel like I need to respect that on some level. Â Â :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Is there any way you could start your own co-op? Are you part of a homeschooling support group? Â We have done some outside classes for fun...art, p.e., music...and some (like chemistry) because I didn't want to teach it alone. Another mom and I did the class together, taking turns at our houses. We did the experiments at her house and the tests at my house, and we took turns making lesson plans every other week that the kids did at home in between the joint classes. Â Is this school really the only place in your area where you could send her? Â We are part of a homeschool co-op; either the classes offered aren't applicable to her (say, a writing class that she wouldn't be able to keep up with) or a science class using a textbook and POV that my husband has completely nixed as an option. I have considered trying to start another support group. I've done it once before (an all inclusive kind of gig) and it was an epic fail. I would love to try again - but I would have to be a bit more... exclusive (Golly, I hate that word) so we don't run into the same problems. I'm not sure how I would word it to weed out certain types that wreaked havoc on the last group I started, lol. I should give it another go before doing anything drastic though, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Â I have considered trying to start another support group. I've done it once before (an all inclusive kind of gig) and it was an epic fail. I would love to try again - but I would have to be a bit more... exclusive (Golly, I hate that word) so we don't run into the same problems. I'm not sure how I would word it to weed out certain types that wreaked havoc on the last group I started, lol. I should give it another go before doing anything drastic though, lol. Â Â So, you've considered starting a support group? What kinds of wreaking havoc did you have? Maybe the hive mind can help you figure out how to make it work. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooCow Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I would be worried about such a specific sof. I've encountered ones that are that specific and usually it means they are rather hostile to those who don't conform and then I've encountered others who word their statement of faiths much more generally. These seem to be more tolerant of differing perspectives. Â Â :iagree: I am not Catholic, Baptist in fact, and I would not sign their SOF. I've never read one like that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 So, you've considered starting a support group? What kinds of wreaking havoc did you have? Maybe the hive mind can help you figure out how to make it work. :-) Â Well, I started one about a year ago. Apparently "all inclusive" didn't work out too well. Some of the issues: Â 1.) everyone pounced the newbs proclaiming that their way was the only way and if they considered anything else, they were doing their child(ren) a grave disservice. Â 2.) unschoolers and traditional/rigorous/anything-other-than-unschooling did NOT get along as well as I'd hoped, lol. Â 3.) we ended up with a large number of "preschool only" homeschoolers - since our state doesn't offer free preK for everyone (need based only) many do "preschool at home" but then send the children off to school starting in kindergarten. Â 4.) eventually everyone split into groups - religion, homeschool method, age based, etc. Â 5.) everyone wanted *more* from the group, but only one other person offered to help in any way, otherwise they just expected these things to happen (courtesy *me*, lol). Â Eventually I sent out a frustrated e-mail and shut down the group :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Another Protestant here who thinks that's a very specific statement of faith. Â Aimee, maybe I missed this, but does the Catholic school prohibit enrolling in just a class or two? Do they require absolute full time enrollment? I'm assuming not or you probably would have your decision made by now. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Another Protestant here who thinks that's a very specific statement of faith. Â Aimee, maybe I missed this, but does the Catholic school prohibit enrolling in just a class or two? Do they require absolute full time enrollment? I'm assuming not or you probably would have your decision made by now. :) Â They do not allow partial enrollment, you're correct. Wish they did, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I just reread the SOF carefully. Goodness mercy! Any Orthodox would be fleeing to the hills, for I noticed far more problems than the ones you pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 I just reread the SOF carefully. Goodness mercy! Any Orthodox would be fleeing to the hills, for I noticed far more problems than the ones you pointed out. I talked to my husband and we've decided to nix the possibility. Unlike me, he is not a revert (he's always been active and practicing) and he had a similar (flee for the hills) reaction. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Since the in person classes are a no-go, I thought you might like to check out some online classes. Trinqueta's enrolled in Athena's Advanced Academy's philosophy class this semester and is enjoying it a lot. The class is a conference call, so it's not text-intensive and the school is secular. They offer history (SOTW), science (evolution based!!!!), literature, geography, art and philosophy. Here's a link: Â http://www.athenasacademy.com/ Â There's another, similar school that I don't have any experience with but offers complementary classes to Athena's: Â http://www.onlineg3.com/ Â If you'd like graded classes, there's a Catholic one called Fisher More (they used to be Regina Coeli). I've never used them, but I bet someone here has: Â http://www.fishermoreacademy.org/ Â Good luck finding something that works! If you're really desperate, $10K is about the going rate for a private school that remediates LDs. It's a chunk of change, but they're not price gouging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thanks for the links! Â We have a dyslexia specific school here actually... for the lovely price of about 20K. Makes the Catholic school version of the program look cheap. Lol! Since the in person classes are a no-go, I thought you might like to check out some online classes. Trinqueta's enrolled in Athena's Advanced Academy's philosophy class this semester and is enjoying it a lot. The class is a conference call, so it's not text-intensive and the school is secular. They offer history (SOTW), science (evolution based!!!!), literature, geography, art and philosophy. Here's a link: Â http://www.athenasacademy.com/ Â There's another, similar school that I don't have any experience with but offers complementary classes to Athena's: Â http://www.onlineg3.com/ Â If you'd like graded classes, there's a Catholic one called Fisher More (they used to be Regina Coeli). I've never used them, but I bet someone here has: Â http://www.fishermoreacademy.org/ Â Good luck finding something that works! If you're really desperate, $10K is about the going rate for a private school that remediates LDs. It's a chunk of change, but they're not price gouging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I don't know how old your daughter is. Have you considered an outside tutor? That is a legal choice in some (in many?) states. Â When our eldest was in high school, we paid an outside tutor for English, Russian, and religion. There were no problems between ds and us; we just wanted a talented teacher for these subjects. (Religion may sound like an odd choice; however, we hired a priest/friend who combines stellar personal character with stellar advanced academic training. He writes extremely well, and is bilingual Russian/English. Was homeschooled himself, years before it became common.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 I don't know how old your daughter is. Have you considered an outside tutor? That is a legal choice in some (in many?) states. Â When our eldest was in high school, we paid an outside tutor for English, Russian, and religion. There were no problems between ds and us; we just wanted a talented teacher for these subjects. (Religion may sound like an odd choice; however, we hired a priest/friend who combines stellar personal character with stellar advanced academic training. He writes extremely well, and is bilingual Russian/English. Was homeschooled himself, years before it became common.) Â She requested "other kids", lol. Wish I could find small group tutoring though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Â She requested "other kids", lol. Wish I could find small group tutoring though! Â Is there a way to make the small group tutoring happen without forming a full-fledged support group? There may be other homeschoolers in your area looking for the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Is there a way to make the small group tutoring happen without forming a full-fledged support group? There may be other homeschoolers in your area looking for the same thing. If I go forward with trying (again) the support group, I'm sure I could ask the other parents if they all wanted to "go in" on a tutor for a content subject (I'm not sure how that would work with skill subjects, since homeschoolers are typically all over the board there, lol). Â My husband would love to host a middle school aged science club - his degrees are in physics and computer science. He's been collecting things to teach Autumn when she gets to that field in her studies and has asked if any other girls her age would want to join in so she could get in some "kid time" too, lol (unfortunately, there don't seem to be many math/science girls around here...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Well, I started one about a year ago. Apparently "all inclusive" didn't work out too well. Some of the issues:  1.) everyone pounced the newbs proclaiming that their way was the only way and if they considered anything else, they were doing their child(ren) a grave disservice.  2.) unschoolers and traditional/rigorous/anything-other-than-unschooling did NOT get along as well as I'd hoped, lol.  3.) we ended up with a large number of "preschool only" homeschoolers - since our state doesn't offer free preK for everyone (need based only) many do "preschool at home" but then send the children off to school starting in kindergarten.  4.) eventually everyone split into groups - religion, homeschool method, age based, etc.  5.) everyone wanted *more* from the group, but only one other person offered to help in any way, otherwise they just expected these things to happen (courtesy *me*, lol).  Eventually I sent out a frustrated e-mail and shut down the group :p  Wow. I think you exceeded your quota for PITA support group members!  I suppose if push comes to shove and you really *need* a support group, maybe there's one other person that you could brainstorm with on group dynamics, and then casually invite people to meet.  I know of informal groups that do have unschoolers/traditional schoolers/religious/non-religious members, all in one big happy family. However, I don't think it hurts to have some guidelines in mind from the beginning as far as expectations of group behavior and whatnot, and you write those down and hand them out to all prospective members. Sometimes you have to remind them of those guidelines, too. At least one of these groups had a policy that if someone wanted something other than a park day to happen (this was in California; we can have park day all year round), then she was welcome to plan it; otherwise, everyone was happy with park day. And the leader of a group that I joined when I moved to a new community was smart: if I mentioned something to her that I thought was a good idea, she'd look me right in the eyeball and say, "sounds like a good idea. Why don't you plan it?" So I did. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almondbutterandjelly Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 It sounds like you're really tired and at the end of your rope. I just have a couple of observations: Your dd's curriculum looks fairly rigorous. You might be surprised at how non-rigorous regular school can be, even if you find one that you can send her to (I was thinking possibly a public charter school? Sometimes those are as good as private schools and they are required to help with things like dyslexia). Why did you pull her out of school to begin with? I suspect you would do the same thing now. Even though you feel like you need space. Â Gently, maybe what you both need is an attitude adjustment about what school can look like. Especially at challenging times of life, maybe you can just pare things down to basics for awhile (not forever but for a difficult season), and let her go about being a kid and enjoying herself the rest of the day after school is done. Which maybe only has to take an hour or two. And maybe your pared down stuff can look differently than it does now. Â If she really needs to be with other kids, if that's what you are looking for, then find social opportunities that don't necessarily include school. I put my dd in a very good afterschool latchkey program for awhile. It was at a private school, but it was just three afternoons a week. They did crafts and played, from 3:30 to 5:30. Maybe your local YWCA or YMCA has a good quality latchkey program. Maybe you can get her into theater. I encourage you to explore opportunities that accomplish the space and socialization you desire. Â Last observation: Attitude is a discipline issue. It is something we can change in ourselves. Don't you find that when you change your attitude about something, it becomes easier or not so much a chore? Fake it 'til you make it really does work. Being able to have a good attitude even when maybe you don't feel like it is a valuable lifeskill. Honestly. She's at the perfect age to learn this. Â :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 While her list looks rigorous, we've pared down to only math and language arts until fall :p  Public school is off the table - even a charter. It is far too late to get her into one that we aren't zoned for and actually, we're zoned for one of the best, but it is still filled with the same reasons we took her out in the first place - children who do not care, bullying, and (worst of all) parents who do not carry and lend that to their children. She was only in public school for a partial year in grade 4; before that she attended a fantastic Catholic school (that unfortunately didn't have the resources to deal with her dyslexia - they do now, although it's so new that I hesitate). Catholic school is really the only full time school we will again consider and it is still something we're considering.  "Attitude" was the wrong word for me to use. She isn't disrespectful and she doesn't complain. She is simply, but noticeably, unhappy. I could deal with rolling eyes, complaining, and disrespect - because that would be a discipline issue and able to be remedied the same way we do any other discipline problem. I can't (and won't) force her to act happy when she clearly isn't.  Before I do anything drastic (like sending her back to Catholic school, lol), I'm going to try Ellie's suggestion and again try to start up a homeschool support group - just park days once a week unless someone else wants to plan something else. If it is indeed just that she misses being with friends (she did have a good group of friends), then weekly meetups with friends should help. She does do ballet at a reputable studio, and she very much enjoys it, but it is very structured and there is no time to "make friends" (she only knows the name of one or two girls in the class, lol). I also hope to find, if we can get a good support group going, another girl her age (or two) who are interested in science as well, so that my husband can go with his plan to do a physics intensive this fall with her (and hopefully some of her friends!).  And you're right - I am tired. I'm not sure that it's Autumn as much as it's that I'm very tired. The new babe is much more a handful than the ever two ever were, lol! It sounds like you're really tired and at the end of your rope. I just have a couple of observations: Your dd's curriculum looks fairly rigorous. You might be surprised at how non-rigorous regular school can be, even if you find one that you can send her to (I was thinking possibly a public charter school? Sometimes those are as good as private schools and they are required to help with things like dyslexia). Why did you pull her out of school to begin with? I suspect you would do the same thing now. Even though you feel like you need space.  Gently, maybe what you both need is an attitude adjustment about what school can look like. Especially at challenging times of life, maybe you can just pare things down to basics for awhile (not forever but for a difficult season), and let her go about being a kid and enjoying herself the rest of the day after school is done. Which maybe only has to take an hour or two. And maybe your pared down stuff can look differently than it does now.  If she really needs to be with other kids, if that's what you are looking for, then find social opportunities that don't necessarily include school. I put my dd in a very good afterschool latchkey program for awhile. It was at a private school, but it was just three afternoons a week. They did crafts and played, from 3:30 to 5:30. Maybe your local YWCA or YMCA has a good quality latchkey program. Maybe you can get her into theater. I encourage you to explore opportunities that accomplish the space and socialization you desire.  Last observation: Attitude is a discipline issue. It is something we can change in ourselves. Don't you find that when you change your attitude about something, it becomes easier or not so much a chore? Fake it 'til you make it really does work. Being able to have a good attitude even when maybe you don't feel like it is a valuable lifeskill. Honestly. She's at the perfect age to learn this.  :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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