Interesting conversation with a dean at a university ds is seriously considering

[8filltheheart]

Yesterday we went on a college visit. We had made arrangements ahead of time for ds to meet with the dean of the dept ds was interested in. During our conversation, the dean made a few comments that I found revealing.

 

1- they do not find most students ready for 3rd semester courses after taking the AP exam which gives 2 semesters worth of credit. They like to give conditional credit and work on an individual basis as to giving credit for the "for major" students version of the class. He said that in general they advise almost all students to take their 1st 2 semester courses.

 

2- when discussing transfer credits, he wanted to know if it they were from a major university with a degree offered in the subject. Courses taken if they didn't offer a degree in that major were most likely not going to transfer, however if they offered the major with a similar course sequence then submitting a course description and a syllabus would probably lead to credit granted.

 

Those 2 pts made me wonder how they would have viewed courses taken at a CC. I was sort of surprised by the stringency of the comments toward the offering of the major making such a difference. Neither of the 2 applied to our situation so I didn't really press further. I was just glad that our decisions weren't going to negatively impact ds.

 

Just a heads-up for others that might be in a similar situation.

[WTMCassandra]

Maybe this is cynical, but I think both answers are also motivated by revenue concerns. The university gets no money for credits granted.

 

If the concern was only and genuinely student readiness, other methods of determining readiness and/or compromises are possible. For example, they could let the student take a test to determine if he/she is really ready for that "3rd semester" course, and/or they could give credit for the first semester but not the second. And/or students with AP credits could test out of each level.

[MyThreeSons]

My friends (with older students) have found that if you do your homework and communicate with a four-year university that has an agreement with the CC, you really can transfer many credits. One young man I know just did four semesters at a local two-year school, one summer class at another local CC, and transferred to a well-respected four year university. He will graduate with a BS in Mechanical Engineering after only three semesters at the four year school. He was homeschooled through high school, did no AP classes or tests, and only did Spanish 2 as dual enrollment. But he made it a point to check with an adviser at the four-year school every semester before he registered.

[regentrude]

Maybe this is cynical, but I think both answers are also motivated by revenue concerns. The university gets no money for credits granted.

 

If the concern was only and genuinely student readiness, other methods of determining readiness and/or compromises are possible. For example, they could let the student take a test to determine if he/she is really ready for that "3rd semester" course, and/or they could give credit for the first semester but not the second. And/or students with AP credits could test out of each level.

 

 

Any student can already request credit by examination - irrespective of whether he has taken an AP course or self studied.

A student who is bent on testing out can do so, even without an AP exam.

As a physics instructor at a university, I would definitely second the advice the OP has received from the dean. Especially for courses taken elsewhere; many students who transfer from CC tell me that our courses are much more challenging and not comparable to what they took at CC.

And if the OP was visiting a selective school, this will be even more pronounced, since they can handpick their students and teach at an even higher level.

 

 

ETA: The OP talked to the dean of a department, not to somebody in the university's administration. The department has quite possibly no skin in the game at all - they do not receive any extra money if they have another student in their class. We definitely don't; getting more students into our classes does not create any increased revenue for the department, just more work.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Regarding the transfer credit for CC courses, that was what I was told when I was in school. This was despite being told by CCs that one could save money by taking courses there first and then transferring. Problem was, if anything transferred at all it was for general ed stuff (maybe), not towards a major. I always felt like that was false advertising. Anyhow, I did not go that route and went straight to a university. I didn't want to waste my time and money!

 

 

 

I considered CC courses to be for General Education credits, or at least that is the kind of arrangement Illinois CC's have with our state universities. I never expected them to qualify as major specific credit. It was still cheaper to get all my general education credits out of the way before transferring.

[8filltheheart]

Maybe this is cynical, but I think both answers are also motivated by revenue concerns. The university gets no money for credits granted.

 

If the concern was only and genuinely student readiness, other methods of determining readiness and/or compromises are possible. For example, they could let the student take a test to determine if he/she is really ready for that "3rd semester" course, and/or they could give credit for the first semester but not the second. And/or students with AP credits could test out of each level.

 

 

That was not the impression he gave at all. They give credit for the AP to non-majors. They have a specifically designed course for majors only (not even engineers take the "for majors" class. He did say that students could opt to prove qualification just from their AP coursework but that their data shows that most students are simply not prepared.

 

As far as the CC.....he didn't say anything at all about CCs. His conversation was strictly focused on whether or not the courses were being taught toward earning a degree in the material. Once we established that the university did have that as a major, he didn't seem to think it would be a problem for ds to transfer in the coursework. (my interpretation was that many schools offer courses that are peripherally required for a degree w/o having to offer a degree in that subject itself.....and CCs are definitely in that category.)

 

Our ds didn't take APs, so the initial conversation was based on his incorrect assumption that that was how ds had credit for those courses.

[In The Great White North]

Any student can already request credit by examination - irrespective of whether he has taken an AP course or self studied.

 

Not necessarily. For example, Dartmouth:

 

http://www.dartmouth.edu/admissions/apply/thinking/credit.html

 

Only math, computer science, chemistry and physics even offer credit by exam, and only during freshman orientation. Languages, music theory and psychology offer advancement placement or exemption from the requirement but not credit. Dartmouth also no longer offers credit for AP tests (starting with the class of 2018, next year's freshmen).

[swimmermom3]

My understanding is that more and more students simply are not ready for the work even with AP courses under their belt. Part of the issue is when AP courses are not taught as a college-level course requiring college-level skills, but as a test preparation course with many short cuts. A freshman friend of my youngest is taking AP World History. She does not read a text, but extensively regurgitated notes from the teacher. This is NOT the same as reading 35 pages of a college text per week and taking your notes.

[Corraleno]

Can I piggyback a question here? Several of the universities I've looked will ONLY accept DE credits if those credits were not used to fulfill HS requirements.

 

Has anyone had to make this distinction on a transcript? Do you list those credits separately, and not include them in the GPA? Or do you list them as a regular part of the transcript but footnote them — something to the effect of "these credits are over and above the requirements for HS graduation, and therefore are not counted towards fulfilling graduation requirements"? Or something else?

 

I'm trying to figure out how to balance the stupid NCAA requirements (where DE credits are automatically accepted and save a huge amount of hassle) with some of these colleges, where DE credits are only accepted if they don't count towards HS. :glare:

 

ETA: FWIW, if DS does DE, it will likely be at the state flagship uni, for exactly the reason 8FilltheHeart mentioned.

 

Jackie

[Angie in VA]

Dd would get as much as 6 credits for her AP exam, but she will either audit the class to make sure she has a good foundation or just take it (them). If she does take the class(es) for a grade, I hope it will be easier for her.

[In The Great White North]

I'm trying to figure out how to balance the stupid NCAA requirements (where DE credits are automatically accepted and save a huge amount of hassle) with some of these colleges, where DE credits are only accepted if they don't count towards HS. :glare:

 

Write two different transcripts.

[Corraleno]

Write two different transcripts.

Yes, I'll definitely be doing 2 different transcripts, and I will only give the NCAA the minimum 16 "core courses" that they care about. But I don't know if it would cause problems if my NCAA transcript explicitly lists 6 or 8 college classes as fulfilling his HS eligibility requirements, but then I'm telling the college, "oh, no, he didn't use those credits for HS."

 

Jackie

[Nicole M]

My understanding is that more and more students simply are not ready for the work even with AP courses under their belt. Part of the issue is when AP courses are not taught as a college-level course requiring college-level skills, but as a test preparation course with many short cuts. A freshman friend of my youngest's is taking AP World History. She does not read a text, but extensively regurgitated notes from the teacher. This is NOT the same as reading 35 pages of a college text per week and taking your notes.

 

Ding, ding!

 

On the campus where I work, especially since the economy tanked, we've seen a serious decline in student readiness. (A friend of mine teaches musicology. OHMYWORD. He shows me paper sometimes — utterly incoherent.) Did you see the recent Chronicle article about NCLB and the effects of standardized testing? AP courses just are not taught at the same level they were a while ago.

 

It sounds, though, like this dean was pretty open about what seems to work, and it's great to have that information.

 

My son's CC credits transferred, and we were shocked. He's technically been a senior for a couple years now (finishing his third year at his 4-year college) but he's going to take all four years. So CC didn't so much save money as it did free up his time for courses that he needed and wanted to take. Point being, some fancy-schmancy LACs do take transfer credits — the college where I work does not accept CC credits. You really just have to ask around.

[Brenda in MA]

Can I piggyback a question here? Several of the universities I've looked will ONLY accept DE credits if those credits were not used to fulfill HS requirements.

 

Has anyone had to make this distinction on a transcript? Do you list those credits separately, and not include them in the GPA? Or do you list them as a regular part of the transcript but footnote them — something to the effect of "these credits are over and above the requirements for HS graduation, and therefore are not counted towards fulfilling graduation requirements"? Or something else?

 

Jackie

Jackie,

 

The college my son went to had this requirement. I made up his high school transcript without the DE classes listed in the regular "courses" section. I just added a footnote that he had also taken a few college courses (2 when he applied & 2 in the spring term). None of the colleges questioned this format, and his eventual school did accept all four courses, which has allowed him to take a semester off for a coop and still graduate in 4 years. I didn't have to deal with NCAA requirements, though, so I can't help you there.

 

Of the 4 transfer courses, none were in his major area. Two were general ed humanities courses (he's in engineering), one was a chemistry pre-req, and the other was a computer elective. I agree with the others who are suggesting that the student should take his/her major courses at the eventual university, if possible, just to make sure that he/she has the required background for the upper level classes.

 

I wish we had the option to take DE courses at the state flagship or a highly ranked local school. Unfortunately, distance and cost make that impossible. I still think that strategically selected CC courses used as transfer credits (if the receiving school takes them) are a great idea.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[Jane in NC]

I have an experience to relate from my years teaching at a respected engineering university. Granted, this was a while ago so their courses and policies may have changed.

 

Back then, the second semester Calculus class included the first three or four weeks of the traditional Differential Equations course in which integration techniques are directly applied. Students who had received AP Calc credit still took Calc II in order to be exposed to this new DE material. This syllabus was developed in conjunction with the engineering faculty who wanted these students to be able to solve certain types of differential equations before taking that particular class.

 

Students who transferred to Engineering U from a CC with an articulation agreement earned credit for their Calc II class, but they took an alternate DE class that included the material covered by earlier by those taking Calc II at Engineering U.. Their Differential Equations class gave the same number of credits--but they had less material in the long run. I think the engineers who jumpstarted the class spent more time on Fourier transforms.

 

I suspect that basic coursework at an engineering school may vary from that at a non-engineering school. Perhaps others have seen this as well?

 

Students in a math track at this university had a proof oriented Calculus sequence. Students in biology, forestry, etc. had a different Calculus class than the engineering students which covered modeling in their disciplines. Larger universities with many sections of basic classes can gear these courses for majors.

[In The Great White North]

But I don't know if it would cause problems if my NCAA transcript explicitly lists 6 or 8 college classes as fulfilling his HS eligibility requirements, but then I'm telling the college, "oh, no, he didn't use those credits for HS."

 

The operative question is if the NCAA "talks" to Admissions or just the Athletic Dept? I'd love to know the answer to that too.

[Nan in Mass]

Jackie,

 

i don't know anything about the NCAA. i agree that getting to count the classes as high school requirements for NCAA but not count them as high school requirements for university sounds if-y. I just wanted to point out that as far as the university app goes, you only have to make one transcript, a transcript showing the courses that counted towards his high school requirements and any non-college level extras because the university will require you to submit your high school transcript AND any college transcripts. The college transcripts must be mailed straight from the colleges. So - in my case, I listed all the cc classes and all the at home classes together on the high school transcript with a note saying where the cc classes were taken. In your case, you could make one transcript with the home classes and any extra cc classes on it, with a note at the bottom saying, "For other college classes, see college transcript." Then you could send both the college transcript and your high school transcript to the NCAA. If the NCAA has a list of required classes, perhaps they will pick them from either transcript, leaving you free to give identical transcripts to both the NCAA and the university. Hopefully that made sense. I think the problems will come with subjects for which universities require four years, like English (and probably math). If your son takes college composition in high school and you want it to count towards his university degree, then you will have to find something else to count as that year's high school English. In our case, if we had wanted to not-count cc speech and cc composition as one of the years of English, I could easily have given more credit for English at home because I rather drastically underestimated the amount of English credits I gave. Mine did far more hours of English than I gave them credit for. The same for science. I suspect you could do the same thing with English and science. If you assign credits on the basis of hours worked rather than your feel for how much ought to be accomplished or covered to call something by a certain name (like field studies) then you will be able to give your son more credit for the stuff he does at home and leave the stuff he did at college off of his high school transcript, letting it just show up on his college transcript. With math, if you start counting at algebra 1 and count four years, then algebra 1 through pre-calc can be high school math and then any other math taken in high school at the community college will count towards those university credits. It is the getting-the-NCAA-to-count-the-home-credits part that is if-y.

 

Nan

[TechWife]

Maybe this is cynical, but I think both answers are also motivated by revenue concerns. The university gets no money for credits granted.

 

Good universities are motivated by a desire to graduate students. People don't continue to come if their retention rate and/or graduation rate is low. In order to be successful, the students must be prepared to succeed in the work they do in the university. Why take upper level work if you aren't prepared? It is a fact that all colleges are not created equal, so they are wise to be concerned that a student who took a prerequisite at another institution might not be prepared to succeed in their coursework. Another reason universities is that the university has a reputation to protect. One of the ways they do that is by protecting the integrity of the program. It would mean nothing to current students and future applicants to say that a student graduated from ABC University if many of the credits in the major area of study were taken at XYZ University.

[Ellie]

 

 

Those 2 pts made me wonder how they would have viewed courses taken at a CC.

 

I'm sure this varies state by state. In California, all of the state colleges and UC accept CC credits, and most private colleges do, as well.

 

Another good reminder to check into *everything* while there's still tlme. :-)

 

Of course, for us, c.c. classes were for the sake of the education, not just because they were transferrable, KWIM?

[kiana]

The rigor of CC's varies widely as well. My brother started at a reputable local CC, transferred to an Ivy League school, and all but one of his courses transferred, but the CC had people transfer to some very good schools on a regular basis, so their 'for majors' courses were designed around that.

[DarlaS]

Don't most people check these things out in advance? You know what they say about assuming? It applies here as well.

 

Right on the website of the CC my son attends is a list of universities they have transfer agreements with. On the website of most of those schools (You have to search a bit to find it, but it's there) is a list of equivalent courses. Without making a single phone call, in a few minutes of research, I was able to find which classes would transfer at each school.

 

My son did just transfer to one of those schools (with ease and speed!) and the only class that did not transfer was trig (and maybe Environmental Science). And we knew it wouldn't. No nasty surprises at all. He is graduating from the CC this spring with an AS in mathematics though. Maybe that AS helps, but if they list the course as an equivalent, they really should honor it.

[8filltheheart]

Don't most people check these things out in advance? You know what they say about assuming? It applies here as well.

 

Right on the website of the CC my son attends is a list of universities they have transfer agreements with. On the website of most of those schools (You have to search a bit to find it, but it's there) is a list of equivalent courses. Without making a single phone call, in a few minutes of research, I was able to find which classes would transfer at each school.

 

My son did just transfer to one of those schools (with ease and speed!) and the only class that did not transfer was trig (and maybe Environmental Science). And we knew it wouldn't. No nasty surprises at all. He is graduating from the CC this spring with an AS in mathematics though. Maybe that AS helps, but if they list the course as an equivalent, they really should honor it.

 

This is only really applicable within a state. Many state unis have reciprocity agreements with state CCs. Other states, other unis may have a completely different POV of those courses. Finding answers is not necessarily as easy as it sounds. (and simply b/c there is reciprocity, it also does not guarantee being equally prepared. At one uni I visited with my dd a couple of yrs ago, one of the professors from one of the science depts rolled his eyes when dd told him she was taking science X at the CC. He said he would strongly encourage her to retake it there. She didn't end up attending there, but that was a reciprocity school.)

 

FWIW, we made the appt with the dean b/c our ds will be taking university sophomore level "for major" subjects at a different university in a different state. We were unsure what courses ds should take next yr exactly b/c unis don't have to accept other universities' coursework. It is normally the dean of a given dept's role to review submitted courses and make the decision as to whether or not grant credit.

 

This dean was very clear about one of the criteria he has for even considering accepting the transfer. I am just glad that it is one that ds meets.

[creekland]

Having seen the difference between middle and youngest son's intro Bio classes there's no way I'd want a class to transfer or count for credit if the Dean of the Dept didn't feel it was sufficient (middle is Top 30 Research U, youngest is cc class that WOULD transfer to our state flagships). Middle would have been at a HUGE disadvantage had he skipped his intro classes, then tried to do more advanced classes. That first semester class went into a ton more depth. Youngest called his own Bio college level class "Bio Lite" after sitting in on middle son's class.

 

However, for Psych 101 the Dean and school feel it is ok, so taking his AP credits are fine. Middle confirmed this by seeing what students were learning in the class there - he already knew the info.

 

I'd vote for "trust the Dean" or profs over "we know what they should do."

[regentrude]

Don't most people check these things out in advance? You know what they say about assuming? It applies here as well.

Right on the website of the CC my son attends is a list of universities they have transfer agreements with. On the website of most of those schools (You have to search a bit to find it, but it's there) is a list of equivalent courses. Without making a single phone call, in a few minutes of research, I was able to find which classes would transfer at each school.

 

 

At the point when my DD started taking courses at the university, we had absolutely no idea what schools she might want to apply to.

Thus it would have been impossible to check out credit transfer before beginning dual enrollment classes.

 

Also, just because a school accepts transfer credit does not mean it is in the student's best interest to take advantage of this and test out of the introductory sequence. And it may quite possibly be the case that a university has a policy to accept credit from xyz while a certain department does not consider the transfer course the equivalent of the course they teach and would discourage a student from skipping. Thus, I would always recommend consulting the department to see if they recommend it, even if accepting credit is the school's policy.

 

We are deliberately not doing the AP exam for calculus with DD, because we find it beneficial if she retakes the entire calculus series from the beginning, to get repeated exposure at a point where she has her head free for the deeper conceptual insights instead of struggling to work the problems.

[8filltheheart]

Another thought I just had has to do with labs. AP courses, even those at equipped high schools, and most CCs are not likely to offer the same quality labs as a university offering a "for major" course, especially in subjects like physics.

 

Ds did a lab this semester on magnetic fields where he shot electrons into a magnetic field with helium in it. He had a blast with that lab. Definitely not reproducible at home. I can't imagine high schools having that equipment either. The labs my other kids have taken at the CCs have been very low tech (though none have taken a physics lab at a CC).

 

Some of the unis that ds has looked at that list accepting credit for APs still require students to take the lab portion for credit.

 

 

[Jane in NC]

Another thought I just had has to do with labs. AP courses, even those at equipped high schools, and most CCs are not likely to offer the same quality labs as a university offering a "for major" course, especially in subjects like physics.

 

Ds did a lab this semester on magnetic fields where he shot electrons into a magnetic field with helium in it. He had a blast with that lab. Definitely not reproducible at home. I can't imagine high schools having that equipment either. The labs my other kids have taken at the CCs have been very low tech (though none have taken a physics lab at a CC).

 

Some of the unis that ds has looked at that list accepting credit for APs still require students to take the lab portion for credit.

 

My son had what I thought were high quality chemistry labs at our CC. What he did not have was a high quality experience writing lab reports.

[8filltheheart]

 

 

My son had what I thought were high quality chemistry labs at our CC. What he did not have was a high quality experience writing lab reports.

 

The lab report portion is interesting. The expectations of the prof here are much different than at the university where ds took physics last semester. His lab reports here about 10 pgs for every lab.

[swimmermom3]

Ding, ding!

 

On the campus where I work, especially since the economy tanked, we've seen a serious decline in student readiness. (A friend of mine teaches musicology. OHMYWORD. He shows me paper sometimes — utterly incoherent.) Did you see the recent Chronicle article about NCLB and the effects of standardized testing? AP courses just are not taught at the same level they were a while ago.

 

It sounds, though, like this dean was pretty open about what seems to work, and it's great to have that information.

 

My son's CC credits transferred, and we were shocked. He's technically been a senior for a couple years now (finishing his third year at his 4-year college) but he's going to take all four years. So CC didn't so much save money as it did free up his time for courses that he needed and wanted to take. Point being, some fancy-schmancy LACs do take transfer credits — the college where I work does not accept CC credits. You really just have to ask around.

 

Do you have a link to the article? Someone recently posted a Chronicle article on a "professional writer" who wrote customized doctoral papers as well as regular class essays for a fee and made a decent living at it. :eek:

 

ETA: Never mind. I found the article. Gulp. It does explain in part why many universities wouldn't be happy to accept outside credits.

[Matryoshka]

We are deliberately not doing the AP exam for calculus with DD, because we find it beneficial if she retakes the entire calculus series from the beginning, to get repeated exposure at a point where she has her head free for the deeper conceptual insights instead of struggling to work the problems.

 

But taking the exam doesn't mean you have to take credit for it, even if you do well, does it? I mean, couldn't someone make a 5 on AP Calc and have it just be there to make their college application stronger, but still retake the course at university for the reasons you state above?

[Corraleno]

Don't most people check these things out in advance? You know what they say about assuming? It applies here as well.

 

Right on the website of the CC my son attends is a list of universities they have transfer agreements with. On the website of most of those schools (You have to search a bit to find it, but it's there) is a list of equivalent courses. Without making a single phone call, in a few minutes of research, I was able to find which classes would transfer at each school.

 

 

That's fine if you know well in advance (by the beginning of HS) that your DC will definitely be attending an in-state school, but none of that applies if the student may be going out of state.

 

The credit transfer policies of the OOS schools we've looked at vary from not accepting any APs/DEs at all, to accepting limited APs with a score of 5, accepting some DEs (limits range from 4 to 9 courses), only accepting DEs from "degree-granting institutions" and/or if they weren't used for HS requirements, etc. And even the schools that do accept DEs make it clear that credit is contingent on departmental review. Short of interviewing every dean of every school a student may possibly consider, before that student signs up for their first AP or DE course, there really is no way to truly "check this out in advance."

 

The best I can hope to do is design a HS plan that will maximize both my kids' preparedness and the possibilities for transferring credits. For DS, that translates to fewer AP courses and more DE courses at the 4-yr uni.

 

Jackie

[Teachin'Mine]

But taking the exam doesn't mean you have to take credit for it, even if you do well, does it? I mean, couldn't someone make a 5 on AP Calc and have it just be there to make their college application stronger, but still retake the course at university for the reasons you state above?

 

 

Yes, they can. The same can be applied to CC or university classes, although I'm not sure if there's as much flexibility if accepted as a transfer student. As we know that some ivies, and other top universities, do accept CC graduates as transfer students and they often do earn their bachaelor's degree within two years, then it stands to reason that these students are able to move onto higher level courses without repeating what they had already completed. I would also venture to guess that the majority of high school students completing an associates degree while still in high school are top students who would be able to make the step up in academics as well.

[regentrude]

But taking the exam doesn't mean you have to take credit for it, even if you do well, does it? I mean, couldn't someone make a 5 on AP Calc and have it just be there to make their college application stronger, but still retake the course at university for the reasons you state above?

 

I do not know whether the student can always opt for a lower course than his automatic placement; how will this be handled if a class is full and the student just wants it, but does not place into it?

 

Even if it is possible, for *my* student who does not test well, taking the exam just to strengthen the transcript would not be in her best interest. My student's academic ability is substantiated by standardized test scores and dual enrollment calculus based physics courses at a STEM university; since we do not want the credit, we chose sanity over adding the AP exam. I realize that there are always more exams one can take in hopes of looking more competetive; at some point we have decided what will have to suffice.

YMMV.

[Teachin'Mine]

Jacki, we're not counting any of the CC classes for high school credit. I don't know what our final transcript will look like, but for now we're listing the CC classes separately but just showing them so they know what dd is doing with her time. If only high school courses were mentioned, they'd seriously wonder. lol

 

Dd hasn't chosen to take CC courses just to get credit for them, although that would be nice, but she's taken them to give herself more of an academic challenge. She's loving the classes and other involvement and studying for AP tests on her own would not have given her what she wants ... and for us the money that would have to be spent on AP testing can be better spent on college texts. Even if she does get some credit, it won't be used to finish in less than four years, but to allow her to take more courses in a variety of interests. Even if it's suggested that she repeat courses, the knowledge she's gained will allow her to go deeper and probably have more time for other activities as well. To me there's so many benefits to taking good CC classes that getting credit for them is just a bonus.

[Gwen in VA]

My dd is looking at some colleges I have never looked at before, and I have noticed that several of them only allow up to six cclasses to transfer, including AP credits. YIkes! I am honestly surprised by the arbitrary limit -- our 4-year public college down the road is a top-ranked "public ivy", and I am surprised that dd cannot transfer all of her AP's plus the public ivy credits if she attends those colleges.

 

However, it is the college's right to limit the transfer credits if it chooses. I respect that right. Period. And if we really feel strongly about this, we will have to find colleges that are more generous with transfer credit!

[Catwoman]

Am I the only one whose head is spinning about all of this? :confused:

 

We're planning to hs our ds13 through high school, so I'm trying to plan things out, but I keep reading such conflicting information on things like AP tests, other testing options, and dual enrollment, and trying to figure out what to do is making me feel a little :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly:

 

I don't want to shortchange my ds, and I want to give him every possible advantage in terms of options for college, but I'm starting to worry that I'll mess up and make all of the wrong decisions!

[*Michelle*]

Am I the only one whose head is spinning about all of this? :confused:

 

We're planning to hs our ds13 through high school, so I'm trying to plan things out, but I keep reading such conflicting information on things like AP tests, other testing options, and dual enrollment, and trying to figure out what to do is making me feel a little :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly:

 

I don't want to shortchange my ds, and I want to give him every possible advantage in terms of options for college, but I'm starting to worry that I'll mess up and make all of the wrong decisions!

 

 

My head is spinning too. When I was in high school, I took plenty of AP courses and regretted not getting to take DE Anatomy/Physiology. Our local university accepted any AP course with a 3 or higher. The DE course was through the CC and any state school accepted those credits upon transfer.

 

I imagine that the rules are different based on whether you're going to a state school, a regular private school, or an elite school. I can't imagine trying to figure out the dance when you're not sure of where your kid is going to wind up in four years. At some point, do you just make a plan and let the chips fall as they may?

[cassiemc]

Based on my personal experience, AP classes are not as thorough as college classes. Also, colleges vary greatly. I attended 3 different colleges; one private, exclusive school, one community college and one state university. The level of classes varied at each school. I can see why a college would not transfer credit or accept AP tests scores for credit. It's all relative and you can always find a college that will meet your students needs:)

[Corraleno]

Am I the only one whose head is spinning about all of this? :confused:

 

We're planning to hs our ds13 through high school, so I'm trying to plan things out, but I keep reading such conflicting information on things like AP tests, other testing options, and dual enrollment, and trying to figure out what to do is making me feel a little :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly:

 

I don't want to shortchange my ds, and I want to give him every possible advantage in terms of options for college, but I'm starting to worry that I'll mess up and make all of the wrong decisions!

 

 

I've been trying to research the colleges that offer DS's probable major + his sport, and every one has a slightly different policy on this!

E.g.:

1. No AP or DE credit; some advanced standing possible depending on department/major

2. No AP or DE credit, but possible to test out of many courses with departmental exams

3. 1 credit for an AP5, half credit for AP4; DE credits accepted but only 4 credits, total, allowed for AP & DE

4. Credit for 5s on a limited list of APs, possible credit for DEs if taken at a 4 yr school and not used for HS credit, up to a total of 8 courses (AP+DE combined)

5. Some DEs accepted, pending departmental review; APs good for advanced standing but not credit

6. Score of 4 or 5 on foreign language APs will satisfy language requirement but not count for credit; other APs & DEs may get advanced standing but no credit

 

OTOH, our state uni accepts all APs, many CLEPs, and up to 60 credits from state CCs. Too bad they have a mediocre dept in DS's major and no team for his sport!

 

Jackie

[creekland]

I don't want to shortchange my ds, and I want to give him every possible advantage in terms of options for college, but I'm starting to worry that I'll mess up and make all of the wrong decisions!

 

There are many ways that work - not just one "right" way. If you provide a good, solid foundation, it will work out. Don't get your heart set on a "dream" college, esp if that place has a low acceptance rate. No one truly knows the magic answer to always getting accepted at one of those, but it's definitely possible to get accepted to very good schools via homeschooling. My middle son had good options from homeschooling. He would not have had them if he'd stayed at our public school. Oldest got merit aid at his school by homeschooling. He would not have reached that level from our public school. The key to both was a solid foundation - something our public school lacks.

 

 

 

At some point, do you just make a plan and let the chips fall as they may?

 

This is what we did. I wanted a good foundation for my guys. We picked some DE classes to get letters of reference and classroom experience and a couple of AP tests (without designated courses, but using the same texts) to get similar in depth foundations. What counted for college was an extra. Being prepared for college was our goal (and it happened).

 

My regret is letting my youngest go back to public school as he's the one who has been shortchanged academically - BUT - there were other issues at play that we had to consider. He has one more year and we'll be seeing what happens.