Science Sequence Planning

[Chrysalis Academy]

I would love to get some advice and input into a potential high school science sequence. Not because I think I can plan out the next seven years . . . but because I am trying to plan the next three years, middle school, and I want to work backwards so I make sure I'm setting dd up for success.

 

She's a biology girl. I think it's likely she'll want to study something like ecology, environmental science, etc. She's a big-picture thinker, a connection maker, not a detail person. I don't see her being a bench scientist, more likely some kind of field-based work.

 

She likes math, and is good at it. She has particularly enjoyed the introductory statistics and algebra that we've studied so far. But again, she likes math for what it can do - for problem solving, graphing, thinking about data and what it means, rather than the math for its own sake, KWIM? So her math sequence will be solid: she's doing PreAlgebra in 6th grade, then I'm planning to give her two years (7th & 8th) to make sure Algebra 1 is completely rock solid. (If she doesn't need the repetition, we can take time to do number theory or counting & probability). So she'll have Geometry-Algebra 2-Trig/PreCalc-Statistics in high school (I think Statistics makes more sense for her than Calc at this point, but of course that's subject to change, too).

 

Current Middle School Science plans:

For 6th grade, she's doing physical science - astronomy, newtonian physics, a little chemistry.

I was thinking that 7th grade would finish out physics and maybe some more chemistry for the first half of the year, then revisit biology in the second half (we're doing bio now, in 5th). 8th grade is open at this point, but I've been considering doing an Integrated Science /Science literacy survey course, using something like the Trefil & Hazen book The Sciences: an Integrated Approach.

 

But, there really is time in the next three years to prep her for whatever science sequence makes sense in high school. So . . .

 

Physics - ok, I know she needs physics. But can we do Conceptual Physics or Algebra-based Physics in 9th grade, and call it good? That way we can focus much more on advanced biology as she gets older and more capable.

 

So I had been thinking of this:

9th - Conceptual Physics

10th - Chemistry

11th - Biology (AP?)

12th - Enviro Science (AP?)

 

This has the virtue of making sure she has all the background she needs to really do well in her interest areas, Bio & Enviro Science. The down side is that she has to wait till 11th grade for the stuff she's most interested in, and she won't have the Enviro Science (and possibly Enviro Science AP) on her transcripts when she's applying to college.

 

Is there some other sequence that would work that would get her potentially prepped for the Bio & ES APs, and cover everything colleges will want to see on a transcript (say for a biology major). I'm not necessarily thinking of top tier science colleges at this point, a state school or a good LAC would be fine.

 

Is it possible to do Enviro Science earlier? Like in 9th grade, before chemistry & bio? I have the Miller Living in the Environment text, and I think that it would be a class that really interested her. If we decided to go this route, I could spend time in middle school making sure she's prepared with the necessary chemistry & bio background. Has anyone else gone this route?

 

So it might look something like:

9th - Enviro Sci

10th-Chem

11th-Bio

12th - Physics (if we must?)

 

or we could double up one year and do another science elective. Thoughts?

 

Ok, if you are still with me at this point, thank you for reading, and in advance for your advice!

[regentrude]

For a student with her math background, I'd start with an algebra based physics course in 9th grade, not just conceptual. Then chem in 10th, bio in 11th, and some advanced course AP bio or environ in 12th, or even both - many science interested students double up on science. Or she may even be ready for AP bio in 11th, if her bio background is good and she is interested.

 

With such a young student, I would not plan out the sequence yet, because interests do change.

(Ask me how I know. My DD wanted to be a biologist since she was very little - until she took high school chemistry. The knowledge that she'd have to take several years worth of chem at college completely turned her off bio)

[Chrysalis Academy]

For a student with her math background, I'd start with an algebra based physics course in 9th grade, not just conceptual. Then chem in 10th, bio in 11th, and some advanced course AP bio or environ in 12th, or even both - many science interested students double up on science. Or she may even be ready for AP bio in 11th, if her bio background is good and she is interested.

 

With such a young student, I would not plan out the sequence yet, because interests do change.

(Ask me how I know. My DD wanted to be a biologist since she was very little - until she took high school chemistry. The knowledge that she'd have to take several years worth of chem at college completely turned her off bio)

 

Thanks, regentrude. Can you remind me what your favorite algebra-based physics text is? Just being lazy, I'm sure I could find it if I search.

 

You know, what you said about your dd's experience is actually one of the things that has me nervous about waiting till 11th grade for biology. I worry that if she has to wait that long for the science that really turns her on, and is taking challenging courses that she's less engaged with, she might give up, whereas if she gets a "taste" of the good stuff, she may be more likely to stay motivated. Maybe I will think about putting together an environmental science elective for 9th grade to do along with physics, or doing it in 8th grade. Kinda to show her what she's working toward . . .

 

I know my biology slip is slowing! ;) Maybe it counterbalances all the recent threads where people talk about skipping biology?

[regentrude]

Thanks, regentrude. Can you remind me what your favorite algebra-based physics text is? Just being lazy, I'm sure I could find it if I search.

 

 

I like College Physics by Knight, Jones and Field. It is an algebra based text for biology majors and has lots of examples of biological applications of the physics concepts. (For example, next week, I'll spend an entire lecture on a simple model of the nervous system, and we can use basic physics concepts to understand how the breakdown of the myelin sheath in multiple sclerosis causes a slow down in signal travel- very cool).

 

You know, what you said about your dd's experience is actually one of the things that has me nervous about waiting till 11th grade for biology. I worry that if she has to wait that long for the science that really turns her on, and is taking challenging courses that she's less engaged with, she might give up, whereas if she gets a "taste" of the good stuff, she may be more likely to stay motivated. Maybe I will think about putting together an environmental science elective for 9th grade to do along with physics, or doing it in 8th grade. Kinda to show her what she's working toward . . .

 

 

I do not see why she can not work on biology concurrently with other sciences, if she has a strong interest: maybe she can do some biology every year, for a cumulative credit? I have never understood why they do one science-one year in this country anyway.

Or - and this is what my DD did- she can start her high school sciences BEFORE high school and do a high school level biology course in 8th grade. Then, she will be ready for AP bio in 11th grade, and you don't even have to put the 8th grade course on her transcript.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ok, I've been rethinking all weekend. What about this?

 

6th & 7th - Physical Science - meaning a conceptually deep introduction to Physics & Chemistry that is not too math heavy

8th - Intro Biology (high school level)

9th - Chemistry

10th - Advanced/AP Biology

11th AP Enviro Science + a specialized science elective (Earth Science or Ecology/Agroecology or . . . .)

12th - Physics

[Chrysalis Academy]

bump :001_smile:

[Luckymama]

Ok, I've been rethinking all weekend. What about this?

 

6th & 7th - Physical Science - meaning a conceptually deep introduction to Physics & Chemistry that is not too math heavy

8th - Intro Biology (high school level)

9th - Chemistry

10th - Advanced/AP Biology

11th AP Enviro Science + a specialized science elective (Earth Science or Ecology/Agroecology or . . . .)

12th - Physics

 

It looks good but I betcha you change something as you go along ;)

 

My youngest shows an affinity for physics, geology, and astonomy. Our plan, should she stay home for high school, is the following:

 

7th (currently): physical science (ACS chemistry, balsa structure building, basic e & m, West Point bridge designing contest w corresponding file folder bridge activities to understand forces (need trig))

8th: algebra-based physics (Knight and Giancoli are both sitting on the table in front of me)

9th: chemistry

10th: AP Physics C...might split this into a year of C: Mechanics for serious depth

11th: AP something else.....and/or a year of C: E & M

12th: too far to plan!

[Chrysalis Academy]

It looks good but I betcha you change something as you go along ;)

 

My youngest shows an affinity for physics, geology, and astonomy. Our plan, should she stay home for high school, is the following:

 

7th (currently): physical science (ACS chemistry, balsa structure building, basic e & m, West Point bridge designing contest w corresponding file folder bridge activities to understand forces (need trig))

8th: algebra-based physics (Knight and Giancoli are both sitting on the table in front of me)

9th: chemistry

10th: AP Physics C...might split this into a year of C: Mechanics for serious depth

11th: AP something else.....and/or a year of C: E & M

12th: too far to plan!

 

 

No doubt you are right! Things will change. But see, it has been a useful exercise, because it made me revamp my plans for 6th-8th grade, which was the whole point of thinking ahead. So thanks for commenting! For whatever reason, I hadn't really considered the idea of doing a "full" high school science in 8th grade, which does open things up for high school.

[Chrysalis Academy]

It looks good but I betcha you change something as you go along ;)

 

My youngest shows an affinity for physics, geology, and astonomy. Our plan, should she stay home for high school, is the following:

 

7th (currently): physical science (ACS chemistry, balsa structure building, basic e & m, West Point bridge designing contest w corresponding file folder bridge activities to understand forces (need trig))

8th: algebra-based physics (Knight and Giancoli are both sitting on the table in front of me)

9th: chemistry

10th: AP Physics C...might split this into a year of C: Mechanics for serious depth

11th: AP something else.....and/or a year of C: E & M

12th: too far to plan!

 

 

sorry - double post

[Woodland Mist Academy]

My thanks as well.

 

I am planning physical science for 7th and hopefully algebra-based physics for 8th. I will look into the resources mentioned.

 

Should my dd be completely finished with algebra before algebra-based physics, or would it be OK if she was finishing algebra that year?

 

ETA: She will start algebra sometime in 7th, but I'm pretty sure she won't finish it until sometime during 8th.

[8filltheheart]

For a student with a passion for a certain topic, incorporating a credit every yr for the subject really isn't that difficult.

 

My 11th grader currently has science credits coming out his ears. ;) He did our standard "whatever you want to study for science" approach through 7th grade. Nothing particular and no formal plan. :)

 

In 8th he took his first high school science course, physics (Kinetic Physics). In 9th he took Spectrum Chemistry (a low time commitment courses) combined with his first astronomy credit. In 10th he took AP chem and his 2nd astronomy credit. This yr in 11th he will have credit for 2 semesters of university cal-physics and his 3rd astronomy credit. (that is 8 science credits by the end of 11th and the equivalent of 17 hrs of college credit for chem and physics.)

 

Even though he is taking a lot of credits, he would never opt to drop his astronomy courses. He loves them. I can see that a biology loving student might want to do something similar with biology courses. (ds would consider that torture!! LOL!)

 

FWIW, I have made the decision to alter my kids high school science sequence from now on to be physics 1st and chem 2nd. My kids are all strong in math, so that isn't an issue. After watching the different sequences play out....bio first, chem first, and physics first....with my different kids, I think that the physics first one is actually the best choice. (chem first would be my 2nd choice. Bio will not be first for any of my future high school students.)

[z2_mom]

Just out of curiosity what were you considering using for a high school level enviormental science? That sounds like an intresting course that my dd would like.

 

Lynda

[regentrude]

Should my dd be completely finished with algebra before algebra-based physics, or would it be OK if she was finishing algebra that year?

 

She should have completed an algebra course all the way through quadratic equations.

An actual algebra based physics course (and not just a conceptual one with a handful of equations thrown in) will use the quadratic equation at some point during the first three weeks, when the kinematics of free fall and trajectory motion are discussed.

 

She should also have had some basic geometry, so that you can introduce her to basic trig in a right triangle (takes only half an hour, but student needs to be familiar with right triangle, angles, and Pythagorean theorem.)

 

A knowledge of the exponential function and logarithms will be required towards the end of the second semester, when RC circuits are discussed. For a student who did not have the math, I would feel comfortable skipping this topic.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 

She should have completed an algebra course all the way through quadratic equations.

An actual algebra based physics course (and not just a conceptual one with a handful of equations thrown in) will use the quadratic equation at some point during the first three weeks, when the kinematics of free fall and trajectory motion are discussed.

 

She should also have had some basic geometry, so that you can introduce her to basic trig in a right triangle (takes only half an hour, but student needs to be familiar with right triangle, angles, and Pythagorean theorem.)

 

A knowledge of the exponential function and logarithms will be required towards the end of the second semester, when RC circuits are discussed. For a student who did not have the math, I would feel comfortable skipping this topic.

 

Thanks!

[Chrysalis Academy]

For a student with a passion for a certain topic, incorporating a credit every yr for the subject really isn't that difficult.

 

My 11th grader currently has science credits coming out his ears. ;) He did our standard "whatever you want to study for science" approach through 7th grade. Nothing particular and no formal plan. :)

 

In 8th he took his first high school science course, physics (Kinetic Physics). In 9th he took Spectrum Chemistry (a low time commitment courses) combined with his first astronomy credit. In 10th he took AP chem and his 2nd astronomy credit. This yr in 11th he will have credit for 2 semesters of university cal-physics and his 3rd astronomy credit. (that is 8 science credits by the end of 11th and the equivalent of 17 hrs of college credit for chem and physics.)

 

Even though he is taking a lot of credits, he would never opt to drop his astronomy courses. He loves them. I can see that a biology loving student might want to do something similar with biology courses. (ds would consider that torture!! LOL!)

 

FWIW, I have made the decision to alter my kids high school science sequence from now on to be physics 1st and chem 2nd. My kids are all strong in math, so that isn't an issue. After watching the different sequences play out....bio first, chem first, and physics first....with my different kids, I think that the physics first one is actually the best choice. (chem first would be my 2nd choice. Bio will not be first for any of my future high school students.)

 

I do agree with you about Physics first, which is what I keep going around in circles about . . . . my revised plan has her doing conceptual physics and chemistry, basically, in 6th & 7th grade, and then introductory bio in 8th, with the plan of doing advanced bio as well as chemistry & physics again in high school. I'm trying to figure out if this will work, or whether we really need to do an Algebra-based physics before doing any other high school sciences. Since she will finish Algebra 1 in 8th grade, the earliest she could do Algebra-based Physics would be 9th.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Just out of curiosity what were you considering using for a high school level enviormental science? That sounds like an intresting course that my dd would like.

 

Lynda

 

Well, I have Miller's Living in the Environment, which I think is one of the books on the AP Enviro Science list. I haven't really compared it to anything else, but it looks really good. I'm an ecologist, so this would be an easy area for me to pull in other resources to flesh out an interesting course, provided that I have a good spine.

 

I've also been looking at the Biozone modular courses: http://www.biozone.co.nz/modular.php They have an Ecology and an Environmental Science unit. I could see doing a really interesting class that involved a trimester of earth science, one of ecology, and one of Enviro science using these materials for the last two units.

[8filltheheart]

Rose,

 

I don't know anything about the AP enviro class, but in "rumor land" it is one of the ones that doesn't have the same level of "respect" as the other AP science courses.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+colleges+view+ap+environmental+science&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

 

Whether or not any of the above is true, I can't even begin to comment on. I just thought I would share it in case you wanted to research it more thoroughly and verify its truth or lack thereof on your own.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Rose,

 

I don't know anything about the AP enviro class, but in "rumor land" it is one of the ones that doesn't have the same level of "respect" as the other AP science courses.

 

https://www.google.c...n&client=safari

 

Whether or not any of the above is true, I can't even begin to comment on. I just thought I would share it in case you wanted to research it more thoroughly and verify its truth or lack thereof on your own.

 

 

Thanks for passing on the word. It does seem from what I've read that it might be an easier AP, which is one reason I was tossing around the idea of having her take the class earlier and having that be one of her first APs. She might even be able to do it alongside Chemistry, if she used something like Spectrum. Given that she has an interest in some kind of field-based ecological science, I think it's relevant for her. I liked this quote, from the link you posted:

 

 

"Even though APES is not as rigorous as the other AP science subjects, it can still be very useful to students with a sincere interest in environmental science. My daughter thinks she wants to be an environmental engineer. Aside from APES self study, she will probably not see any coursework on environmental science till her sophomore or junior year of college. APES can help to motivate (or demotivate if appropriate) students interested in the field."

 

 

 

[Luckymama]

I think AP Enviro would be a great fit for your daughter. Having it on her transcript would show breadth in her discipline-of -choice.

 

DS took AP Enviro during his senior year as a second science (in addition to Physics C:E&M). He thought it would be and interesting yet easy class. Ha! He did more work for that class than E&M :lol: His teacher had very high standards yet made the class engaging with multiple trips into the "field."

[z2_mom]

Thanks for all the Info. This is one area of sciene that I did not think about. My dd has gone through all of the Apologia books and we were trying to figure something out for next year. It will be her senior year. I think that this will fit the bill quite nicely along with marine biology.

 

Lynda

[8filltheheart]

 

 

Thanks for passing on the word. It does seem from what I've read that it might be an easier AP, which is one reason I was tossing around the idea of having her take the class earlier and having that be one of her first APs. She might even be able to do it alongside Chemistry, if she used something like Spectrum. Given that she has an interest in some kind of field-based ecological science, I think it's relevant for her.

 

 

 

Yes, if this is an interest for her, she should definitely pursue it!! Alternatively (or in addition to), you might look into local opportunities to get involved in eco-projects.

[Koerarmoca]

I would sneak in a semester of anatomy & physiology somewhere. I know it was my favorite course in science you could combine it with biology even I would think. I don't know if its critical to take for college but I know it helped me some.