What happens if a therapist decides someone might be a danger to themselves?

[Moxie]

I'm so sorry for the spot you are in. It really sounds like he has something medical and serious going on. I'll be honest; I don't understand your decision to stay. If he won't get help, how can you help him? Please be honest with your therapist; you need someone IRL in your corner. Prayers for you and your kids.

[justamouse]

:grouphug:

 

My MIL was deserted by my FIL for 12 years. Not divorced, he just up and left.

 

He came back when something devastating happened to the family, to circle the wagons.

 

4 years after his return, he was diagnosed with Alzheimer, and his care was left to my MIL. At first she resented it, and to say it was unfair was an understatement. But she did it because she knew it was the right thing to do and let me tell you, she took care of him better than anyone could have.

 

He really didn't deserve her, to tell the truth, and she didn't deserve what happened, either, but she has been truly blessed by her selflessness.

 

So, :grouphug:

[Pink Fairy]

Julie, I hope you will open up fully to your therapist. I understand not wanting to give up control, but relying on your own judgement to decide if suicidal thoughts become too much is dangerous my friend. I'm praying for you and your husband. ((hugs))

[Laurie4b]

 

He doesn't see anyone. This is an MFT that we saw briefly together at the beginning of all of this. I still go. The therapist does understand the situation. He seems worried that dh's shell might crack one day, and has told me to be watchful.

 

I have not told the therapist how despondent I frequently am at this point, and I don't want to if it means he might feel like I need intervention in a more assertive way. Still, I'm a bit worried and a bit embarrassed about how often it pops into my mind that it would be lovely to leave this world behind.

 

 

Julie, as I said in a previous post, he's not going to do anything more intrusive than necessary because that does not help the patient. Allowing the patient the maximum amount of self-determination that seems safe will be his goal. You do need to let him know. I think just knowing that he knows is likely to help you feel safer. He'll help you come up with a plan that will keep you safe.

 

An analogy: one of my kids was difficult to calm down at night and dh and I would often switch off when one of us got jangled. Dh was going out of town, and I was afraid what might happen if I was sleep deprived and he was crying in the middle of the night and I couldn't get him to stop. So I asked my neighbor if I could call in the middle of the night if I thought I might lose it. She said sure. Just knowing that I had her as back-up helped lower the stress and anxiety and I got through it fine.

 

I think just knowing that your therapist has your back and will help you with this is going to ease up on your stress some. Telling about the thoughts will make them lose some of their power because you're not alone to deal with them. He's going to help you, not jump to conclusions. Suicidal thoughts are not especially rare, especially with depression. He will have heard them before. I really don't think you need to fear anything. You are much more likely to end up relieved.

 

Sorry that you're going through this. :grouphug: Do you have folks IRL who can help you out? I did pray for you as well.

[Catwoman]

Julie, maybe I'm the only person here who feels this way, but I find your decision to stay with your dh (for years to come) to be quite distressing.

 

You are completely giving up your own life and your own needs and desires, and you are also terribly depressed and despondent.

 

PLEASE discuss your problems and your intended solutions with a trained therapist. I really think you are seriously underestimating how much emotional damage you are inflicting on yourself by choosing to put your dh's perceived needs before your own.

 

What about your depression? What about your feelings? What about your needs???

 

It's all well and good that your dh needs tons of support and care, but are you really sure he's not just playing you for a fool? If you said he was a great guy and was suddenly going through a horrible depression, I would be totally behind your decision, but the things you've posted about him for a long time, have led me to believe that he really and truly is not worthy of the amount of sacrifice you seem to be willing to endure. He's not even nice to you!!!

 

I know I may get flamed for this, but I think you should stop thinking about his needs and think of yourself and what you need. And do what will make you happy, not settle for a miserable life because for some reason you feel that you don't have any other option.

 

I do not understand why you feel the need to be a martyr here. You deserve the chance at happiness, and you're not going to get it if you keep living the way you are.

 

I am so sorry to be so harsh, but your posts are sounding more and more hopeless, and I am very worried about you. You are such a kind person, and I want you to know that you're not a bad person if you get yourself out of a bad situation.

[Laurie4b]

One more thought. When people get married, they usually do it in front of witnesses, often in the context of a religious ceremony. In the church traditions I'm familiar with, their presence is saying, "We'll support this marriage." In a way, both the couple and their community are making the vows together. People weren't meant to walk these roads alone. It sounds like right now you feel the absence of community. I don't know the backstory or how that happened, but if there are old friends you could contact, some woman who seems like she might be understanding at church, etc. could you reach out to them? It seems like the isolation is very toxic. Is getting out to meet people something you could do? Have you made friends or contacts in your cooking business? It may be that people would be willing to hang out with you, to listen, etc. but sometimes we're afraid to impose by asking. But you sound like the kind of person who would come alongside someone if the situation were reversed. Do you know anyone like you?

 

I hope this doesn't seem pollyanna-ish. I realize it could and I can't see your face and don't know all your circumstances. But if there is any small step you could take or small risk toward being more connected and less isolated, it seems like it would help. You weren't meant to bear the burden alone. We are meant to bear each other's burdens when someone's gets too heavy. Yours is too heavy right now.

[Kaleidoscope]

In November I had a 2-4 year plan for staying in my marriage. Now I'm sitting waiting for my kids to come home from a visit with their dad.

 

For merge 2-4 year plan was part of the process. Just keep reevaluating regularly to be sure it's worth it. I realized I just couldn't survive my plan.

 

I have to join in on encouraging you to be honest with your counselor. Get that input on figuring out if you can actually survive your plan. It took an outsider retelling everything I'd said about the situation and describing to me what the next 2-4 years was going to be like for me and for my kids for me to realize it wasn't doable.

[Julie in CA]

It may be that people would be willing to hang out with you, to listen, etc. but sometimes we're afraid to impose by asking. But you sound like the kind of person who would come alongside someone if the situation were reversed. Do you know anyone like you?

 

Well, actually, that's probably part of my problem. I know no one who has time to hang out with me. I know some who would if I asked, but I'd never feel comfortable inserting myself into the schedule of someone whom I know really has no time to spare.

I long for something just a little fun. An hour or two of respite where I can try to remind myself that there might be life after this, after him.

The times when I feel the best are the times when I'm not in this house, where every single item right down to selecting each 2x4 of the framing was something we did together over the past 25 years.

 

I just need to figure out how to live a life *where I am* that feeds me a little, while still keeping the family intact enough to provide what they need as much as I can. If it falls apart tomorrow (and I concede that it's almost a certainty that it will), I won't feel I've made a mistake in trying.

 

-But you're right, I need to build some support into my situation. Paying a therapist $100 per 50 minutes so that I can feel like someone cares without my having to impose upon them isn't the best choice. I do see that.

[Harriet Vane]

:grouphug:

[jenL]

Julie, please, please be open and honest with your therapist. You NEED that outlet and they are there to help. They can protect you in ways you can't while still providing you with autonomy. True healing and self-help happens when true honesty is provided by the patient.

 

I am praying for you. I pray you will find IRL people to rally behind you. It is essential. Can your therapist recommend a support group where you can find comfort, safety, peace, and friends?

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Tammyla]

(((Julie)))

Please tell your therapist what your are feeling & thinking, so he or she can help you through this; that is their job...to help you. There are a number of options available. It does sound like a support group of some kind might be a safe place for you to talk about and work through this.

[texasmama]

Julie, you sound clinically depressed. :grouphug: This is understandable given your situation. It would be very wise for you to be evaluated for antidepressants by your physician. :grouphug:

[caitlinsmom]

:grouphug: Thinking of you right now. No advice but you are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Julie in CA]

Julie, you sound clinically depressed. :grouphug: This is understandable given your situation. It would be very wise for you to be evaluated for antidepressants by your physician. :grouphug:

 

Wellbutrin is already on board. I shudder to think what this would be like without. I should probably check to see if the dosage can be increased though.

 

Thanks for the reminder.

[Kim in Appalachia]

Julie, Please, please, please, be honest with your therapist. Please "insert" yourself into the life of your busy friends!!!! If I knew you IRL, even just casually, I would not, NOT, consider it an intrusion for you to come over, hang out, have fun, and/or dump everything on me! I'm serious. Your friends deserve the opportunity to be your friends. Please reach out to someone IRL. You need to. I understand depression. I totally get how you are feeling. Don't stay there. Not for 2 to 4 years, not for 2 to 4 weeks!!

 

Please realize, that you need to do whatever you need to do for YOU. If that means leaving, please do! Your children need you. Your dh has already checked out. You are all they have.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Arcadia]

Wellbutrin is already on board. I shudder to think what this would be like without. I should probably check to see if the dosage can be increased though.

 

 

Your physician should check if the drug and dosage is right periodically. My friends are on anti-depression drugs, some have attempted suicide. The main thing that help them was to be busy either with part-time work or volunteer work. Getting out and helping others was less depressing to them than staying home and feeling a low self-worth.

Eat lots of chocolate if that helps. Some foods are good for lifting the spirits and healthy too.

 

ETA:

Food useful for depression http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/diet-recovery

[elfgivas]

julie, here's a different frame around 'inserting yourself in someone else's schedule"... there may be dozens of people in your church (or even two or three), who would be blessed by being able to be of service to you, but you deprive them of that blessing if you don't ask.

 

one thing you could ask your therapist is if he thinks by agreeing to your xdh remaining in your family home, that you may be enabling him to not seek the help he needs. ie. are you the bandaid when a cast is really what is needed, and where the bandaid is allowing the person to avoid doing what is really needed.... ?

 

depending on the therapist, they may allow themselves some wiggle room from being a mandated reporter if you preface your comments with, 'hypothetically, if there were a woman in this situation, and she was feeling x, y, z, what would you suggest to her?'

(some would, some wouldn't. i have been known to say to someone that it is crucial that they do not tell me a,b,c unless they want me to have to report it, but to ask if hypothetically if someone were in this situation, how might that person react?)

 

peace,

ann

[SpecialClassical]

Julie, Please, please, please, be honest with your therapist. Please "insert" yourself into the life of your busy friends!!!! If I knew you IRL, even just casually, I would not, NOT, consider it an intrusion for you to come over, hang out, have fun, and/or dump everything on me! I'm serious. Your friends deserve the opportunity to be your friends. Please reach out to someone IRL. You need to. I understand depression. I totally get how you are feeling. Don't stay there. Not for 2 to 4 years, not for 2 to 4 weeks!!

 

Please realize, that you need to do whatever you need to do for YOU. If that means leaving, please do! Your children need you. Your dh has already checked out. You are all they have.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I agree. Last year I went through a very hard time and was pushed further than I thought I could handle. I was desperate for support beyond prayers, but got very little, even from longtime friends. I stared to become resentful. My church family seemed to be stepping up to help others, but not us. When I finally relayed this to the elders they mentioned two women I could call anytime and assured me the call would be welcome.

 

I have been told that people see me as independent and that I convey a message that I don't need help. Because I have hesitated to ask people assume I don't want it. Sometimes when we are in deep pain we can't see straight and asking for help is the last thing we want to do, especially when we aren't even sure what we need!

 

Please don't continue to suffer in isolation. Maybe you can just ask a friend or two to join you doing fun stuff. Tell them that a couple hours every week or two would work. I would happily skip a meeting or watching a dumb tv show at night to hang out with someone who needed a friend. And if that someone was you, I would be doubly blessed because we could talk about cooking, baking, and starting your own business-all interests of mine!

 

Maybe your elders would know an older woman who has walked a similar path, or they could ask the pastors of sister churches. From what you have written, I know you are a Christian and you know that The Lord often ministers to us through others who have been there. Allow them to do that. It could provide healing for you both!

 

Still praying and believing in the power of His name.

I also agree with the suggestions about a support group and your therapist. Get out of the house as often as possible!

[Heatherwith4]

I just want to agree with what others say as far as being honest with your therapist. :grouphug:

[texasmama]

Wellbutrin is already on board. I shudder to think what this would be like without. I should probably check to see if the dosage can be increased though.

 

Thanks for the reminder.

Yes, I think that would be a good idea. People on antidepressants sometimes "hit a wall" and need a higher dosage after some time passes. This is not uncommon. Having suicidal thoughts after a time of not having these is a pretty good sign that a person needs to talk to their doc about a higher dosage. Don't be afraid to talk to your therapist honestly. I know it can be scary, but part of the value of therapy is being accepted and helped no matter what you express. (((hugs))) You have to keep up a good face for a lot of folks right now, most likely, but your therapist is one you don't need to do this with.

[*Inna*]

Julie, :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Joanne]

Julie, maybe I'm the only person here who feels this way, but I find your decision to stay with your dh (for years to come) to be quite distressing.

 

You are completely giving up your own life and your own needs and desires, and you are also terribly depressed and despondent.

 

PLEASE discuss your problems and your intended solutions with a trained therapist. I really think you are seriously underestimating how much emotional damage you are inflicting on yourself by choosing to put your dh's perceived needs before your own.

 

What about your depression? What about your feelings? What about your needs???

 

It's all well and good that your dh needs tons of support and care, but are you really sure he's not just playing you for a fool? If you said he was a great guy and was suddenly going through a horrible depression, I would be totally behind your decision, but the things you've posted about him for a long time, have led me to believe that he really and truly is not worthy of the amount of sacrifice you seem to be willing to endure. He's not even nice to you!!!

 

I know I may get flamed for this, but I think you should stop thinking about his needs and think of yourself and what you need. And do what will make you happy, not settle for a miserable life because for some reason you feel that you don't have any other option.

 

I do not understand why you feel the need to be a martyr here. You deserve the chance at happiness, and you're not going to get it if you keep living the way you are.

 

I am so sorry to be so harsh, but your posts are sounding more and more hopeless, and I am very worried about you. You are such a kind person, and I want you to know that you're not a bad person if you get yourself out of a bad situation.

 

 

Julie,

 

There are situations in life where there isn't a specific support group, a beaten path, books, and guides. This is one of them. You have been disrespected as a wife, mother, and child of God. At a time you need to grieve, process, and transform, you are called to meet the most demanding situation of your life.

 

You have to *give* and *be there* at a time you are drained. You have to prepare, plan, and be proactive at a time when your core has been stripped.

 

I don't have a prescribed "best answer" for you. But when I can echo, putting on a different hat, is the need for stellar, impeccable, absolutely priority SELF CARE.

 

Please, whether he stays, you stay, he goes, you go: please move into the mode of self care in terms of laughter, joy, fulfillment, hygiene, time with others (or alone, if you prefer).

[Catwoman]

Very well said, Joanne. :)

[Liz CA]

:grouphug: Julie, I can understand both sides, those of the people who advised to get out and your decision to stay for the time being.

 

A weird thought did pop into my head. Before all this "other woman business" emerged, I recall one of your posts when you mentioned that your farm was in deep debt and that you feared for your husband when he had to realize that it was the end of the line because everything he was and is, is wrapped up in his farm.

 

I wonder if he "snapped" in some way. Perhaps your description of what you call "emotional brokenness" is quite accurate. The prospect of losing one's life work - not just a job - may have been more than he could handle.

 

This does not excuse his behavior. Honestly, I don't know what I would do and ONLY you can decide for yourself and your children. If the counselor is concerned about him, is there any way at all you can lure him back to see the counselor?

 

I think the thoughts you have may be quite understandable and "normal" in your situation. You did write that you are thinking of how nice it would be...as in looking for a place without pain. This makes sense to me. You also mentioned that you are rejecting these thoughts. I am counting on your telling the truth!

I would mention to the counselor that you often feel despondent and deeply depressed. If you use those words, he may be able to set you on a path to healing (and I know it won't be overnight or as fast as we all wish) but it could be the beginning of a journey when those "other" thoughts come less and less...Definitely mention to him that you need real, practical help.

 

God also knows how dark your days are and you mentioned you feel you don't have the same faith you had before all this. God is with us in the dark places. Our human struggle is often the question why he allows us to fall into the dark places. It does not matter at all that you may not be able to find the words for a prayer right now because the Spirit will intercede for you. We've been promised this.

 

You asked for prayers. You have mine.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[jhschool]

Definitely HUGS.

 

Julie, I think it's incredibly brave to stay.

It must be the hardest thing ever.

And if you want to keep your

family intact for now-- It must be the hardest thing to do

but we can support you if you make that decision.

 

 

But Julie, whether you stay or go, stay in this world. You

sound like a great mother. You are beautiful inside (and

outside)--I think there

is so much you have to give to your children.

 

And you never know--in 10 years when all your children

are grown up, there may be amazing beautiful experiences.

 

Anyway, hugs and prayers and support. And do what Joanne

said: take care of yourself.

 

PM any of us if you need to talk more. We are ALL here for you!

I just prayed that God will keep you and guard you.

[Elfknitter.#]

 

-But you're right, I need to build some support into my situation. Paying a therapist $100 per 50 minutes so that I can feel like someone cares without my having to impose upon them isn't the best choice. I do see that.

 

Well, yes. But sometimes that isn't the case for all. It may be that therapists are the only ones who appear to care.

 

Last April, my cousin took Cymbalta, Wellbutrin, ibuprofen and OTC sleeping pills. No need to say I wasn't ready for it, yet, I wasn't surprised. He spiraled downward for years. I was happy when he did see a therapist because he lived alone and didn't really open up much to those outside of me and less than a handful of friends. I was happier when he was on meds because I saw the difference in him. Yet there he was with excess meds due to constant switching of prescriptions to find what would work. I wish I saw what I should have last April.

 

But I didn't. And while he spoke to his therapist, I don't think he gave the bigger picture of his depression or anxiety.

 

I see you reaching out. I think you know the way but need some reassurance. Change is frightfully, unscathingly, downright f***ing scary. It is, plain and simple. But out of painful change comes something great. I know that's hard to see, but it will. Please hold tight, know that you are not alone in your pain. If no,one else, we are rooting for you and wish you the best. Take time, seek the proper help and all will come into place.

[moki4]

Julie,

Remember that you are paying a counselor for their professional assessment/diagnosis/treatment. You are not paying that person for friendship!

Please be honest with yourself, and those around you. You will not get better (and recent posts suggest the contrary) by hiding your feelings. From your past posts, I can conclude that this has been going on for some time. You must be TIRED TIRED TIRED.

I hope you can be as honest with your therapist as you have been here with us...You are the hero. Copy off your recent posts and give them to your therapist. Just do it.

Remember if you ever feel like ending it all, please call 911.

I think of you everyday...big hugs

[aggieamy]

Julie - People like you and enjoy your company. You aren't "inserting" yourself into their busy life. You are being friends with them. It's entirely possibly that they are thinking "I wish Julie would give me a call and we could hang out. I don't want to bother her because she's so busy and she probably doesn't have time to go shopping. I'll wait until things calm down and she calls me."

 

Call your friends. Call your chuch and ask for the name of a mom that just had a baby or someone who has been sick and take them a dessert. That's a double bonus for them because they'll get some outside interaction AND we all know you make the best desserts.

[4kiddies]

Alright, this may not be popular BUT here goes....If your therapist thinks your husband might be a danger to himself could he have your husband admitted? That would then possibly get him seen by a dr who could diagnose whether or not something else is going on ie. a tumor or some other medical issue?

 

Sure your husband may be mad at you but isn't he already??

[Catwoman]

Alright, this may not be popular BUT here goes....If your therapist thinks your husband might be a danger to himself could he have your husband admitted? That would then possibly get him seen by a dr who could diagnose whether or not something else is going on ie. a tumor or some other medical issue?

 

Sure your husband may be mad at you but isn't he already??

 

 

And FWIW, who cares if he's mad???

 

Julie, you are the one who has the right to be angry here, not him. Do whatever it takes to help yourself and your kids. Forget about your dh's feelings and do whatever needs to be done to make your own life better.

 

Remember who it was that totally messed up your marriage and your life.... because it absolutely wasn't you.

 

Stop trying to save the world and just save yourself and your kids.

[Guest submarines]

 

I do not understand why you feel the need to be a martyr here. You deserve the chance at happiness, and you're not going to get it if you keep living the way you are.

 

 

 

 

This x10000.

 

I also think you need to change the therapist. He or she doesn't seem to be working for you if she puts your H's emotional needs in front of yours. You need a therapist who you feel comfortable being open with.

[aggieamy]

I just thought of this also. Julie - darlin' - y ou gotta get mad yourself. You do NOT deserve to be treated in such a way. Staying in a situation you know is easier that doing a big change. Change is scary. But in your situation you've got big changes coming and you might as well do it and get it over with. In 2-4 years you can be living with a man that has zero respect for you and have missed years of happiness. Or you could be be 2-4 years into a life of happiness.

 

Let's play a fun game. Let's come up with somethings that could happen in 2-4 years if you stand up and say I'm done with being treated like this! I am not dirt! I have been a good wife and a good mother and I will not tolerate this abuse!

 

In 2-4 years you could have:

 

A succesful little morning bakery/breakfast place. The type of place people meet to have coffee and chat. And everyone just adores the lady behind the counter with the pretty smile and the wonderful pasteries.

 

OR

 

You could have a job where you start off in an entry level position but the boss recognizes what a gem you are and promotes you every chance they get until you're the most valuable employee at the business.

 

OR

 

You could be in a position to save up as much money as you can working so you and your DD's can take a long trip to Europe for a few weeks.

 

OR

 

You could find a gent out there that is completely smitten with you and has been looking his whole life for someone to spend his life with and is counting down the days until he and you get to retire and spend time traveling and reading.

 

The possibilites are endless.

[Catwoman]

This x10000.

 

I also think you need to change the therapist. He or she doesn't seem to be working for you if she puts your H's emotional needs in front of yours. You need a therapist who you feel comfortable being open with.

 

:iagree:

 

And I'm still not convinced that her dh isn't exaggerating his anguish as a way to keep Julie under his thumb.

 

This guy has shown himself to be a crafty manipulator, and he may be doing exactly that right now. He doesn't want a divorce, but he knows that Julie has all the reason in the world to kick his sorry butt to the curb, so now he's practically suicidal... because he knows she will feel sorry for him and let him stay... so he can wait a while and then go right back to being the cheating weasel he was before he got caught.

 

Sorry to sound so cynical, but I think Julie is caught in a pattern of abuse and emotional manipulation (which has made her feel as though she deserves this lot in life,) and I really hope she's able to find a therapist that will help her put the situation into better perspective.

[Guest submarines]

Julie, what I'm going to say might sound harsh, but I'm going to still say it because I care. I'll also try to be brief.

 

Every post of yours screams "low self esteem" so loudly I can't read them without physically cringing.

 

If you talk to your therapist the way you talk here, and he has the audacity to suggest that you need to "watch over" your H as he's vulnerable, this therapist should be fired.

 

If you present a different persona to him, you're not only wasting your money, you're also hurting yourself more and more.

 

You need to start taking tiny baby steps towards healing your self esteem in a real way. Posting here and hearing strangers say that you are a wonderful person is like a drug and you want more and more of it, but it is only an illusion. We all care about you and love you, but it is only of what we imagine you are--unfortunately most of us here don't know you aside from your posts.

 

Please find a therapist that works for you, in a real way, and start making those really hard decisions, no matter how tiny, to get yourself better. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[aggieamy]

:iagree:

 

And I'm still not convinced that her dh isn't exaggerating his anguish as a way to keep Julie under his thumb.

 

This guy has shown himself to be a crafty manipulator, and he may be doing exactly that right now. He doesn't want a divorce, but he knows that Julie has all the reason in the world to kick his sorry butt to the curb, so now he's practically suicidal... because he knows she will feel sorry for him and let him stay... so he can wait a while and then go right back to being the cheating weasel he was before he got caught.

 

Sorry to sound so cynical, but I think Julie is caught in a pattern of abuse and emotional manipulation (which has made her feel as though she deserves this lot in life,) and I really hope she's able to find a therapist that will help her put the situation into better perspective.

 

I agree.

 

There's always an outside chance that weasel and hoochie hoo decide they are just so in love that they want to get married. Ugh.

[Guest submarines]

:iagree:

 

And I'm still not convinced that her dh isn't exaggerating his anguish as a way to keep Julie under his thumb.

 

This guy has shown himself to be a crafty manipulator, and he may be doing exactly that right now. He doesn't want a divorce, but he knows that Julie has all the reason in the world to kick his sorry butt to the curb, so now he's practically suicidal... because he knows she will feel sorry for him and let him stay... so he can wait a while and then go right back to being the cheating weasel he was before he got caught.

 

Sorry to sound so cynical, but I think Julie is caught in a pattern of abuse and emotional manipulation (which has made her feel as though she deserves this lot in life,) and I really hope she's able to find a therapist that will help her put the situation into better perspective.

 

 

Agreed. Also, threatening suicide can be a form of emotional manipulation in itself.

 

Furthermore, what therapist knows about Julie's DH's state now is coming from Julie, not her DH. My real worry is that "being needed" by her DH is what Julie's automatic / habitual desire might be when she is feeling down. Having a suicidal DH who needs her care is falling back on the habitual pattern of low self esteem and self hurt.

 

Julie, he doesn't need you. You need yourself. You deserve better. Get angry and get rid of him.

[Elinor Everywhere]

 

And FWIW, who cares if he's mad???

 

Julie, you are the one who has the right to be angry here, not him. Do whatever it takes to help yourself and your kids. Forget about your dh's feelings and do whatever needs to be done to make your own life better.

 

Remember who it was that totally messed up your marriage and your life.... because it absolutely wasn't you.

 

Stop trying to save the world and just save yourself and your kids.

 

I agree. I'm praying for you, Julie, and I do hope that you get mad. Sometimes that propels us forward in a new direction with angry energy. You deserve a happy life - this mess isn't of your doing. :grouphug:

[justamouse]

I'm going to be the voice of dissent.

 

Having watched my FIL be diagnosed with Alzheimer and watching his early onset dementia, it sounds *exactly* like Julie's Dh.

 

If you think Julie is depressed and has no self esteem now, if her DH *does* have a form of dementia and goes on to hurt himself, or she leaves him and finds out months later he'd been living in a house that was uncared for, not eating, and essentially living like a squatter in his own house....you'll REALLY see Julie depressed and with no self esteem. That level of guilt is almost unbearable to live with.

 

She is being careful, of her family, her husband, and we need to be encouraging her to take more care of herself.

 

Julie, get him into a Dr to test for dementia. It will give you answers, at least. And it would also answer some about his past actions/lack of self care.

[Ottakee]

I have not followed this story closely at all so I might be WAY off. If the dh in this case has had sudden changes in mental status like some seem to mention then he needs to see a doctor, get a CT or MRI done, have other tests runs. We had a couple at church where the dh was NOT himself at all, acting out of character, they were bordering on divorce, etc. when he went to the doctor and they found a baseball size tumor in his brain.

 

It was the cancerous tumor that was causing the changes in his mood/behavior.

 

Obviously if this doesn't fit and I am way off base, then just ignore me.

[Anne]

Dear Julie,

 

You've gotten lots of good advice & suggestions here - I'm not going to repeat them. Just tell you that you are on my prayer list, and I will be praying for you daily.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Anne

[TexasRachel]

Julie, sweetie, please don't try to last it out. You deserve better. Get yourself and your DH the help you both need. Either he's lying, or there's a medical issue and he needs the help. It's not optional. He does not get to say no. Both of you seeing someone should be a requirement for your marriage. If you decide to stay, even temporarily, you deserve to be happier, and definitely not this low.

[Catwoman]

I'm going to be the voice of dissent.

 

Having watched my FIL be diagnosed with Alzheimer and watching his early onset dementia, it sounds *exactly* like Julie's Dh.

 

If you think Julie is depressed and has no self esteem now, if her DH *does* have a form of dementia and goes on to hurt himself, or she leaves him and finds out months later he'd been living in a house that was uncared for, not eating, and essentially living like a squatter in his own house....you'll REALLY see Julie depressed and with no self esteem. That level of guilt is almost unbearable to live with.

 

She is being careful, of her family, her husband, and we need to be encouraging her to take more care of herself.

 

Julie, get him into a Dr to test for dementia. It will give you answers, at least. And it would also answer some about his past actions/lack of self care.

 

 

My personal feeling is that the minute Julie's dh cheated on her, lied to her, and treated her poorly, her responsibility for his health and well-being flew straight out the window.

 

Let his girlfriend worry about what's wrong with him. :glare:

 

Julie has told us quite a bit about her dh's behavior over quite a long period of time, and that's precisely the reason why I'm thinking "manipulative guy" rather than "guy with dementia." His brain seemed to be working fine a few months ago when he was cheating on Julie and lying about it.

 

She has no reason to feel the slightest guilt, no matter what her dh does if she decides to leave, and I think she needs therapy to help her realize that. I don't think she should allow herself to be manipulated into thinking she has to stay with him, because he'll kill himself if she doesn't. How could she ever escape from that? He can play that card every time it looks like she's getting fed up and ready to walk out the door. (And I'll bet he knows it!)

[8circles]

 

 

My personal feeling is that the minute Julie's dh cheated on her, lied to her, and treated her poorly, her responsibility for his health and well-being flew straight out the window.

 

Let his girlfriend worry about what's wrong with him. :glare:

 

Julie has told us quite a bit about her dh's behavior over quite a long period of time, and that's precisely the reason why I'm thinking "manipulative guy" rather than "guy with dementia." His brain seemed to be working fine a few months ago when he was cheating on Julie and lying about it.

 

She has no reason to feel the slightest guilt, no matter what her dh does if she decides to leave, and I think she needs therapy to help her realize that. I don't think she should allow herself to be manipulated into thinking she has to stay with him, because he'll kill himself if she doesn't. How could she ever escape from that? He can play that card every time it looks like she's getting fed up and ready to walk out the door. (And I'll bet he knows it!)

 

Yes. And. Let's not ignore the effect this situation has on her children. Julie, you owe it to yourself and your children to get healthy emotionally. If you can do that AND take care of your H, that would be great. That isn't happening. I can't see you getting well while still being physically in this situation. Help yourself, for your children right now, until you can do it for you.

[justamouse]

My personal feeling is that the minute Julie's dh cheated on her, lied to her, and treated her poorly, her responsibility for his health and well-being flew straight out the window.

 

Let his girlfriend worry about what's wrong with him. :glare:

 

Julie has told us quite a bit about her dh's behavior over quite a long period of time, and that's precisely the reason why I'm thinking "manipulative guy" rather than "guy with dementia." His brain seemed to be working fine a few months ago when he was cheating on Julie and lying about it.

 

She has no reason to feel the slightest guilt, no matter what her dh does if she decides to leave, and I think she needs therapy to help her realize that. I don't think she should allow herself to be manipulated into thinking she has to stay with him, because he'll kill himself if she doesn't. How could she ever escape from that? He can play that card every time it looks like she's getting fed up and ready to walk out the door. (And I'll bet he knows it!)

 

It very well might be...and it may not be.

 

If he can't remember the affair, how does he even know who the girlfriend is? Especially with all of his other 'health' problems. Let me tell you, a man will go to *extraordinary* lengths to hide dementia. It is completely and utterly emasculating to them.

 

Society tends to be very cynical when it comes to affairs, and I'm the first one to not stand for them. Disloyalty in our family is not stood for. I get that.

 

This doesn't sound like that. The subtext of what she's writing, of what she knows that we don't....I think he needs a neurological exam, and then, if he gets cleared? She's good to go.

[Incognito]

Julie,

Since you are choosing to stay and take care of your husband(?), part of caring for him at this point sounds like it means finding a way to get him evaluated medically. I don't know you and your situation. I don't know if he is ill or not. However, it sounds like you are approaching it as if he is broken and hurting and you want to care for him and your kids together.

 

SO, going on that premise, caring for him right now means getting him tests. Do you have a doctor? Call them and make an appointment with them. When you are getting your meds re-evaluated, you can also discuss the need for testing on your husband because of his erratic behavior. Your doctor should be able to help you know how to make that step of getting him tested, if you truly believe it could be physical.

 

As I don't know your situation, but have been close enough to affairs in families of loved ones, the man having the affair does tend to seem like they have become someone else. They re-invent their reality. One family with medical reasons behind it and one not, the two families I have been close to who dealt with this only saw positive change when there were very firm boundaries put in place by the wife.

 

You are valuable, your friends would very likely want to be there for you if you would be willing to fill them in on your struggles.

[aggieamy]

Does he want to actively try to repair things with you or does he just want you to pretend like nothing ever happened ... again?

[Catwoman]

Does he want to actively try to repair things with you or does he just want you to pretend like nothing ever happened ... again?

 

 

I'm concerned about that, too, particularly because Julie described him in an earlier post as being broken -- but "hard-hearted."

 

Personally, I don't think he has done much to deserve all of her concern. It's not like he was a great guy before he started to get "sick."

 

Julie -- Does he have parents who can worry about him and take him into their home? If he does, why not let them deal with him so you can work on repairing the damage he has done to you and your kids? That way, he would still be getting care if he needs it, but you wouldn't be the one stuck doing it.

[sassenach]

Alright, this may not be popular BUT here goes....If your therapist thinks your husband might be a danger to himself could he have your husband admitted? That would then possibly get him seen by a dr who could diagnose whether or not something else is going on ie. a tumor or some other medical issue?

 

Sure your husband may be mad at you but isn't he already??

 

This. Of all of the possible action points, this is the one that makes the most sense to me in light of what Julie had had to say about her desires. The ONLY way for you to make an ounce of difference by staying, is to get your dh fully evaluated- voluntarily or not. If he's not being treated, there is zero point in staying. Once he's getting treatment (for whatever), you'll be able to make decisions about leaving with all the cards on the table. Guilt free. What you're doing now is not sustainable.

[Ryan the Girl]

Oh my goodness. This is my first post, though I've been lurking since the autumn of of 2003 (found the board via Dy who was then of AZ and later of NM and is now of AL but, I believe, no longer posting). No one on this board has any reason to believe a word I say, but OH MY GOODNESS! JULIE! Please! Please take care of yourself! My grandmother died of Alzheimer and my father is in the early stages of dementia, NOTHING we have seen with now 2 generations in any way, shape or form mirror your situation. Please, your family and children need you. It's a terrible thing but not uncommon, those we love do things we'd never imagine. The way he is treating you is not the behavior of one who loves you. Please. PLEASE! Listen to Joanne, please be honest with your therapist. Please take to hear the serenity prayer, please understand what you can change, what you cannot change and the wisdom to understand the difference. As a total bystander I say you can neither change nor control your husband, you can only keep your own side of the street clean. Julie, take control of what you can control, keep your own side of the street clean and please do the next right thing (aka put your own o2 mask on first!).