The Crazy 4 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 My dd is in 5th, was introduced to a WTM around 3rd so changed everything from abeka writing to some copywork & oral narrations to WWE 3 and SOTW 1 & SOTW 2. By the end of WWE 3 she was having problems narrating (when there got to be to much info and was she didnt understand) so I went through the complete writer 1, 2, gave her the exams for 3 & 4, she past, so I moved her on to WWS1. We are in week 4 day 1 narrating the book of dragons. This is the narration After Effie got a dragon in her eye, dragons appeared everywhere. The newspaper people wrote about them, and everyone killed the dragons. But there were more dragons then ever. We are also doing STOW 3 and narrating in that . I've been writing the main points for her then she writes the narration the next day. I feel that she gets the main points, but when it's time to write it down with more detail she gets lost. And I get frustrated. I try asking her questions, but I think I lose her more. I need help, I don't know how to help her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyBC Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I have a 5th grade dd using WWE 3 this year. I notice that if it's a story she enjoys, like The Moffats, she can narrate the main points and easily remember details. When it's something more difficult or of less interest to her, like the ancient Egypt week, she struggles. I have WWS 1 and there is no way she is ready for that yet. My plan is to keep plugging along with WWE and she if she's ready for WWS when we get there. I did notice that our next lesson in Rod & Staff English 5 is Developing Topics by Giving Examples; I'm looking forward to seeing how she makes out with that lesson. I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you. I guess if it were me, I would put WWS on hold and continue to work on narrating SOTW 3. Good luck! You have time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaOz Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Maybe you could have a break and do a fun writing project together - like write a family newspaper, or invent a game and write the rules for it - or something else like that. The actual process of writing, editing, and final product will be a great learning experience and may inspire her. One of my girls enjoyed making a recipe book. She copied the recipes, but she added personal anecdotes before each one, and also her own variations, just like a real recipe book. Capitalize on your daughter's interests. She may even have some ideas of something to do that would involve writing. Variety is the spice of life.... :laugh: HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crazy 4 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 I was reading some posts last night and seen that some people were using Paragraph Writing Made Easy before WWS or during. Do you think this might help me as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbabe Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I agree with lindaoz, do writing for fun. Read Bravewriter or If You're Trying To Teach Kids To Write You've Gotta Have This Book. Or spend a few weeks doing the activities from this blog http://smallworldathome.blogspot.com/p/wordsmithery.html?m=1 I believe that if children learn to love language and writing then its easy to teach formal writing later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyBC Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 We are in week 4 day 1 narrating the book of dragons. This is the narration After Effie got a dragon in her eye, dragons appeared everywhere. The newspaper people wrote about them, and everyone killed the dragons. But there were more dragons then ever. We are also doing STOW 3 and narrating in that . I've been writing the main points for her then she writes the narration the next day. I feel that she gets the main points, but when it's time to write it down with more detail she gets lost. And I get frustrated. I try asking her questions, but I think I lose her more. I need help, I don't know how to help her. Okay, I pulled out WWS. Do you have the Instructor Text? Because it sounds like your dd did a great job with step two and could use just a little bit of help with step 3. There are specific instructions to do that on p. 41. (e.g. if you look at the rubric for organization, point 2, it sounds like rather than combining the newspaper people and everyone killed the dragons in sentence two, she should combine everyone killed the dragons with sentence three. Does that make sense?) (Which is why we've found WWE works for us better than just doing narrations on our own: because I get concrete examples in the text that show me if we're on track, and concrete directions to assist my dd if we're not.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crazy 4 Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 Okay, I pulled out WWS. Do you have the Instructor Text? Because it sounds like your dd did a great job with step two and could use just a little bit of help with step 3. There are specific instructions to do that on p. 41. (e.g. if you look at the rubric for organization, point 2, it sounds like rather than combining the newspaper people and everyone killed the dragons in sentence two, she should combine everyone killed the dragons with sentence three. Does that make sense?) (Which is why we've found WWE works for us better than just doing narrations on our own: because I get concrete examples in the text that show me if we're on track, and concrete directions to assist my dd if we're not.) . Yes, I agree she needs help with step 3 and I need more help explaining that to her. The reason I was using the WWE and STOW AG was also for the concrete examples. But for this lesson there is none. Does her summary look okay, besides the combining that sentence together? Or does she need more detail. I am terrible when it comes to writing, so I am lost when I don't have that example. I just ordered the writing stands 6 for myself (that SWB suggested in her article Educating Ourselves: Classical Education for Adults) and started reading The Well Educated Mind. I also ordered Paragraph Writing Made Easy to do with her or maybe by myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create Your Ritual Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I think you have a few options here. If she is having problems growing a story out to as long as you would like it, then I would continue to practice with WWE4, although the beginning of WWS2 is a review of WWE4. The idea is that she needs to be able to hold the story in her head and condense it a bit. If this direction isn't working, then I would shift direction for a few months to something like Classical Composition Fable. It would give her a fun fable to retell. She would learn how to write more descriptively, while also retelling the story several times and getting practice with just the general art of writing. You could also have her retell you the WWS story out loud and the two of you discuss it before she begins writing it out. With WWS1 you sort of need to work through it and not be able to see the whole picture. It honestly DOES come together, but feels disjointed and like your kids aren't doing it correctly when you first begin. I felt very similar the first 14 weeks of the program to be honest, but then the light bulb went off! ;-) Hang in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyBC Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 . Yes, I agree she needs help with step 3 and I need more help explaining that to her. The reason I was using the WWE and STOW AG was also for the concrete examples. But for this lesson there is none. Does her summary look okay, besides the combining that sentence together? Or does she need more detail. Based on your reply, I'm assuming you don't have the Instructor Text for WWS? At the top of page 40, SWB lists 14 examples of main events for that story and reminds you that your student needs 5-6 that resemble them, they are just a guide. All of your daughter's main points are there, so yes her summary looks okay. Then on page 41, SWB gives some examples of how to combine the 5-6 points into 3-4 sentences, which your daughter has done. She just needs the specific tweaking I mentioned in the previous post. The point of the lesson seems to be eliminating minor details in the summary, which she has achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crazy 4 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Yes, I do have the Instructor Text and I know it has the examples of the step 2 it was the step 3 that I was having the trouble with. I was thinking that she needed a little more detail, but am glad you think she did it correct. I think I just push her and expected it to be more. But like you said it was the main ideas...... She understood I didn't. Thank you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I was reading some posts last night and seen that some people were using Paragraph Writing Made Easy before WWS or during. Do you think this might help me as well? Is that the Scholastic Book? The cover makes it look like an IEW course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crazy 4 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Yes, the Scholastic Book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebacabunch Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 She is doing a great job! One of the problems people have with writing, essays in particular, is putting in too many unnecessary facts and going off on tangents. My dd has tightened up her writing considerably with wws. Her papers are shorter, but concise. She is no longer rambling and going off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffybunny Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 In my opinion, and from my experience in having done WWS with a 6th grader, and struggled all the way, 5th grade, age 10, is way too young for WWS. A great many others share this experience. I would wait until 7th grade, at least, to do WWS. There is an enormous jump between WWE4 and WWS. Check out the thread in this section of the forum about shoring up their skills while you still can: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/255841-crosspost-why-you-should-work-on-twtm-skills-narration-dictation-outlining-etc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in STL Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 We did Paragraph Writing Made Easy after WWE(4 for ds and 2 for dd). It was mostly for ds, but dd was tagging along. It was easy to implement, and a good fit for ds, who is a logical math/science type guy. It helped him understand how to order a piece of writing that was more than one paragraph after doing mostly narration work. WWS wasn't ready yet, so we went on to IEW, but may go back to revisit WWS next year for selected lessons at least. I think Paragraph Writing is a tool that is different from WTM methods, but not incompatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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