When you decide to cut someone toxic from your life, what do you do when tragedy strikes?

[AimeeM]

Please don't quote! I'll probably delete this later!

 

My stepmother and I had always been close. Eventually, as an adult, I realized that the way she ensured that closeness was to alienate me from others - telling me that Person X didn't want me, but it was okay, because *she* did want me (etc). She became very dependent on the constant of our relationship and, even as an adult, took advantage of that - assuming she could do or say what she wanted to me (and my husband, and my children) and our relationship would persevere.

 

We do know that she has mental health problems, but thus far has always maintained that she isn't the problem in any situation, everyone else is - which makes maintaining a healthy relationship with her very, very difficult.

 

There was an incident in early December that caused me to ask her to leave my house, not to return, and to inform her that she was no longer allowed to contact my children (or me). It was messy. I cut her off completely. I couldn't deal with any more. I posted here about it (vaguely), I believe. I *know* that concessions should be given for those with mental health problems, but the emotional well being of myself, my husband, my children, and my relationships were becoming incredibly strained no matter the life lines thrown to this woman - we were all, have always been, willing to help her obtain professional help. She never believed she needed it. Everyone else was the problem, never, never, never her.

 

Since that point, her boundary issues have come to a front, as she continues to try to contact my eldest behind our backs.

 

On that note, she PM'd me last night on facebook. Her father (my step grandfather) is in ICU - heart failure. She isn't on great terms with anyone in her immediate family, including her father's wife. I talked to her for a minute, because I couldn't help myself and I know she needed it.

 

That's the problem though. If I go running to her, to help or to comfort, she WILL (and please take my word on it - I've known this woman since I was a child, she WILL) assume all is better and resume our "normal" relationship - something I absolutely cannot do (won't do). She is banking on that I can't just NOT be there for her. I know her well enough to know that.

 

I can't do this again.

 

I also can't leave her hanging out to dry.

[NoseInABook]

If you want to keep her out of your life, I'd send her back and e-mail saying that you are sorry that she is going through this and you're praying for her. I don't think you need to drop everything to go to her, especially when you've already drawn boundaries in the past.

[applethyme]

Remember why she is no longer part of your life and continue on. There will always be a crisis, tragedy or some other reason you could or "should" reconnect. I would weigh what it would cost your family if you reconnect with her.

[FaithManor]

Pray for her. Find a list of social service resources she might need to avail herself of and email the list - rehab clinics, assisted living homes, in home health care agencies, etc. the hospital will probably inform her of these options, but sometimes it does get overlooked. So, you've satisfied your conscience that you've done something for her.

 

Don't let her back in your life. You do have to remain emotionally healthy for your family. We have a narci on my side who will be utterly and completely alone when tragedy hits, but it is her own doing and she is the UNDOING of everyone who gets sucked into her life. She wrecks havoc and ruin on people's lives and people have to survive. You can't feel guilty about making sure you protect your family.

 

Faith

[Lara in Colo]

deleted

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would act on why she called. I'd send a card or go visit the grandfather. He's the important one here in this scenario. You can thank her for letting you know, if you want but it isn't necessary to go beyond that.

[gardenmom5]

:grouphug: You can refuse to "go there". I would take anything she say's with a grain of salt. no matter how bad she says her step-father is doing - I wouldn't believe it until it was verified. you can drop her a 'thnking of you' card, but refuse to speak with her in person. (that includes on the phone.)

 

Dr. Marsha Linehan, developed a form of psychotherapy called dialectical behavior therapy (DBT), specifically for treating those with personality disorders. your step-mom may well have some form. she has some of the hallmarks. It might help you to read through some of the stuff to get a better idea of that with which you are dealing.

[Hen]

I would maintain the distance, maybe send a card, pray for her. You had very good reasons to cut contact, the fact that she is having a sad time right now doesn't change all she did. I get it, my mom was npd.

 

Is she still married to your father? I think that if anyone should be "there" for her, it would be her spouse, not you.

[MooCow]

Pray for her. Find a list of social service resources she might need to avail herself of and email the list - rehab clinics, assisted living homes, in home health care agencies, etc. the hospital will probably inform her of these options, but sometimes it does get overlooked. So, you've satisfied your conscience that you've done something for her.

 

Don't let her back in your life. You do have to remain emotionally healthy for your family. We have a narci on my side who will be utterly and completely alone when tragedy hits, but it is her own doing and she is the UNDOING of everyone who gets sucked into her life. She wrecks havoc and ruin on people's lives and people have to survive. You can't feel guilty about making sure you protect your family.

 

Faith

 

:iagree: this. It's extremely difficult; I know, I'm having to do it. :grouphug:

[zoobie]

What do you do? Nothing. My DH cut out his parents after enduring much emotional abuse. About 2 years later, his brother did too, but not as unequivocally. They still try to contact BIL, drive by his house, etc. but have not come near us. Block her on FB, block her phone number, and don't look back. Her problems are HERS.

[LucyStoner]

I wouldn't let it keep me for doing whatever I would have done for my grandfather regardless of my relationship with her, but I wouldn't drop any boundaries with her or let her back into my life.

[AimeeM]

I would maintain the distance, maybe send a card, pray for her. You had very good reasons to cut contact, the fact that she is having a sad time right now doesn't change all she did. I get it, my mom was npd.

 

Is she still married to your father? I think that if anyone should be "there" for her, it would be her spouse, not you.

 

Thank you ladies for your support and wise words.

 

Hen, yes she is married to my father. He WILL be there for her - he's very much the strong and steady type; very rational, very dependable. That's part of the problem - she sees this as a way to get me to communicate with her. Complicating this (and making me more miserable about it), is that my contact with my father is now limited because she answers his phone or uses his phone to contact my daughter. On a similar note, I'm VERY close to my step sister (we grew up together, as I lived with my father after my parents divorced) and I want to be there for her very badly.

[FaithManor]

Thank you ladies for your support and wise words.

 

Hen, yes she is married to my father. He WILL be there for her - he's very much the strong and steady type; very rational, very dependable. That's part of the problem - she sees this as a way to get me to communicate with her. Complicating this (and making me more miserable about it), is that my contact with my father is now limited because she answers his phone or uses his phone to contact my daughter. On a similar note, I'm VERY close to my step sister (we grew up together, as I lived with my father after my parents divorced) and I want to be there for her very badly.

 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: That's tough. I do think you need to let your father handle this. If you can find a way to visit grandpa without her around, you may feel better. Depending on how close the hospital is, would it be possible to call and ask the nurses if he has visitors? If she has recently left to go eat or shower or whatever, you could quick run to the hospital and pay your respects.

 

I'd also like to say that a hospital chaplain can be your best friend in this. Our local ones are fantastic. With our narci, I once needed to visit one without her around, made an appointment with the hospital chaplain and that dear priest took narci to the cafeteria for a bite to eat and a chat while I visited relative x and then called up to the nursing station to have me notified to skedaddle when he couldn't keep her distracted anymore. He met with me in the chapel, we lit a candle together, and prayed over the whole situation. Never discount the value of including a good hospital chaplain. Many of special training in dealing with bizzare family relationships that become exponentially worse due to the stress of the situation.

 

Send a card. Email your dad. Run silent as the grave with your mom.

 

Faith

[AimeeM]

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: That's tough. I do think you need to let your father handle this. If you can find a way to visit grandpa without her around, you may feel better. Depending on how close the hospital is, would it be possible to call and ask the nurses if he has visitors? If she has recently left to go eat or shower or whatever, you could quick run to the hospital and pay your respects.

 

I'd also like to say that a hospital chaplain can be your best friend in this. Our local ones are fantastic. With our narci, I once needed to visit one without her around, made an appointment with the hospital chaplain and that dear priest took narci to the cafeteria for a bite to eat and a chat while I visited relative x and then called up to the nursing station to have me notified to skedaddle when he couldn't keep her distracted anymore. He met with me in the chapel, we lit a candle together, and prayed over the whole situation. Never discount the value of including a good hospital chaplain. Many of special training in dealing with bizzare family relationships that become exponentially worse due to the stress of the situation.

 

Send a card. Email your dad. Run silent as the grave with your mom.

 

Faith

 

He isn't close at all. We live several states away.

And unfortunately, while we had a cordial relationship, him (grandfather) and I never had the relationship I so badly wanted - he is one that she alienated me from (telling me that he didn't consider me his GD because I wasn't blood related, although I learned later that he never said such things). Part of me thinks she said those things because she knew how badly I wanted a grandparent (my father had been a ward of the state as a child - parents disappeared, so there were no grandparents to speak of on that side).

He's asked for no visitors apparently. I'm not fond of the idea - his own wife is dealing with breast cancer right now.

(please don't quote this reply!)

[Sahamamama]

Without getting into the details of why, my relationship with my (only) sister ended about a year and a half ago. For me, she was (and would still be) toxic in the extreme. I had a choice. I could put my parents and sister through the Great Schism, or I could put my husband and children through her continuous verbal abuse (towards me), unpredictable explosions, rages, coldness, meanness, bluntness, criticism, and the horrendous impact this had on me. This or that, I had to choose. I chose my husband and children. No regrets. No matter how anything in life turns out, I will never regret choosing my husband and children. That may sound harsh, but that's the way it is.

 

When my father had cancer surgery (last year), I went to the hospital all day, every day for a week. I went to be with him, to support my mother, to make sure she was taking breaks and eating something, and to see them through it as much as possible. My sister was there at times. She was over there, and I was over here, KWIM? No real conversation, but I wasn't running out of the room when she came in. My father, her father. My mother, her mother. Same parents. Is that supposed to make us friends? My vibe was basically, "I will not be in a relationship with you. Not interested. Done." There was no ambivalence about the boundary.

 

I'm going to paint this next statement with a very broad brush: These people have no interest in your feelings. They do NOT feel your pain. They may cause it, but they are not wired properly to feel any empathy. My sister did not "feel my pain," she simply created it. No more. I tried for 44/45 years to get it right with this sibling. It's impossible. Can't be done. Beyond my abilities, at any rate, and I'm ready for other things. Time to move on to peace and calm and freedom from her crisis-addicted drama. I really do have other things to do than repeatedly heal.

 

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't open up Fortress Aimee for your SM to march back in. No. Go visit your SGF, if you are connected. If you want the relationship with SM to be closed, it is closed. IMO, if Person X can do damage unilaterally -- on one side -- then I can close the relationship unilaterally. I don't need Person X's permission to be done.

 

And, FWIW, does she respect your boundaries, as currently set? If not, then that is your evidence that there is no remorse, no change of heart, no repentance on her part. None. Contacting your eleven year old behind your back? Doesn't that violate something? There's your answer. She does need your permission to engage with your children again. She doesn't have it, and so practices subterfuge.

 

In the end, I would give a lot to my sister, even today. If she needed bone marrow, a blood donation, or a kidney transplant, I would be there. I do care. I just can't be in a relationship with her. We don't see any evidence of change, based on what we hear from my parents and other sources. Still the same, still exploding, still in chaos, still a very active volcano. Also, ironically, still teaching Sunday school, a girls' group, working two part-time jobs, managing three kids with health issues in three schools, running the home, with not much help from her husband. Sigh. Yes, I have my moments of wondering... I do. Guilt, too, sort of. I ran out of steam, or something. But I also got to where I didn't want to be abused.

 

I was there for her, though. I was really, really there for my sister. I was kind to her. I cried and prayed with her, and she said that saved her marriage when it was on the brink. I bathed her children, read them books, when she was too exhausted to do it. Yeah, we were "close," if close is something you can be with a person who has no empathy.

 

We can have one kind of relationship with healthy people who are trustworthy. These are reciprocal, and these are mostly what we all need and seek. However, I do think it's possible to have -- perhaps, if we are able? -- one or two "sucking-me-dry-and-beating-me-up-about-it" relationships with people who don't seem able to relate to others in a healthy way. I do think that, even with these types, there is a limit. I reached mine with my sister, and was done. HTH.

 

Request: Please don't quote me, either. Thanks.

[LaxMom]

I can relate as well. I'm my case, my mother was my gradmother's primary caretaker (not caregiver). I set aside my boundaries and moved in to help my aunt (and the various wonderful hospice workers) provide care in the last several weeks on my grandmother's life.

 

It was not a decision I came to lightly, and was ultimately made in the interest of my grandmother and aunt, despite my mother's presence. It was the right decision for ME in many ways, not the least of which was that we could keep my mother from making my grandmother's last days completely about herself. It was an exhausting situation, even with her gone at work most days, and with two of us keeping her in line.

 

After, I had to reaffirm the boundaries very firmly because, as you observed, once it was over, she assumed I had "gotten over" whatever "my" problem with her had been, and we could fall back to what she wanted.

 

I can tell you that, had the situation been about supporting my mother in my grandmother's last days, rather than providing care for my grandmother and containing my mother's drama as much as possible, my boundaries would have remained firmly in place.

(I know you asked for no quote, but I think you made some great points that I'd like to ditto because they're important ones. I'm quoting without attribution or personal details here, but if you prefer, I can remove them)

If you want the relationship to be closed, it is closed. IMO, if Person X can do damage unilaterally -- on one side -- then I can close the relationship unilaterally. I don't need Person X's permission to be done.

Very important to remember this. It sounds like a simple concept, but people seem to disregard it when family is involved. Every one of us has the ability to choose which relationships we want to be a part of. Period.

 

And, FWIW, does she respect your boundaries, as currently set? If not, then that is your evidence that there is no remorse, no change of heart, no repentance on her part. None. Contacting your eleven year old behind your back? Doesn't that violate something? There's your answer. She does need your permission to engage with your children again. She doesn't have it, and so practices subterfuge.

This is a huge one with my mother. Her back door tactics to get around my boundaries and get to my children without me knowing is the reason she now has no contact with any of us. This IS, in my opinion, a hill to die on.

[hillfarm]

Send the grandfather a note, try to get a private communication to your father (does he reliably attend any meetings or anything where you could contact him away from home?), ignore your sm.

 

One of the reasons we need to treat others with respect and kindness is so that we will have a support system when we need it. She ignored this rule. Now, unfortunately, she must sleep in the bed she made. A wise person would learn from something like this. A narcissicist will only use it to fuel additional drama and pain.

[FaithManor]

If you can't visit but do want to make a connection, my advice is to contact the visitor's center of the hospital and explain that he isn't accepting visitors at the time but you'd like a card to make its way to him. Many hospitals have addresses strictly for patient mail. Those that sort it will see to it that it makes it to the nurse's station or the chaplain and those individuals will take it to his room. This way you can show him you care that he's ill and in pain, but you totally bypass the toxic one.

 

Just remember, your husband and children are your primary responsibility and these boundaries are relatively new so you need to be firm in enforcing them.

 

Faith