Spouses of Alcoholics

[AlmiraGulch]

I have a dear friend whose husband is an alcoholic. It's not really a secret. We've always known, even before they were married (they got married not long before I did, so about 18 months ago). We know because his behavior changes so drastically when he has more than 1 or 2 drinks it's almost as if he's a different person. He's not mean, but he's a bit obnoxious. Overly sexual, loud, repeating himself...just generally unpleasant to be around. I know she has been embarrassed about it in the past.

 

He has been on and off the wagon several times over the years. The pattern for them is that it builds and builds and then he does something that she has enough, he admits he has a problem, apologizes profusely, goes on the wagon and is the model husband for a few months. Then he decides he can have one drink, then two (and honestly he does act fine still at that point), but when he decides to have 3, he has 10. And even if he doesn't have that many, he turns right back into that guy that she does not want to be married to.

 

Apparently he has been dry for a while (a couple of months, maybe?) and last weekend decided to have a couple of drinks at a party we all attended. We knew he was drinking immediately because of how he was acting, and apparently she smelled the alcohol on his breath. She confronted him about it and he flat denied it, which was ridiculous because it was obvious. I guess he was going to the bar and sneaking the drinks, and eventually he admitted it while still trying to skate out of it.

 

My friend is heartbroken. She loves her husband but doesn't want to live this way. In her mind it's escalating since he has started sneaking and lying about it. She also doesn't want to get divorced if she thinks there's hope he can be better. He's not drinking again and has sworn it off, but it's not the first time and he just isn't credible to her anymore. He won't go to meetings because it's not his style, whatever that means, but he is reading some things and doing research on other approaches to break the addiction, which is the first time he has done that much. She says that there is more than one approach to addiction treatment, so she doesn't care how he does it as long as he does it.

 

I don't know what to tell her. I know she loves him, but I also know that I certainly wouldn't live in that cycle forever.

 

If you are an alcoholic, or have lived with one, what's your best advice? I know that people break the addiction cycle all the time, but others just never do. How long do you stay in that sort of situation? He's not abusive, he makes a good living, never misses work or other obligations, but he clearly has a problem and it's negatively impacting their marriage.

 

Please help me to have something intelligent to say to her.

[Jean in Newcastle]

She needs to go to Al-Anon. It is for family members.

[Runningmom80]

I'm not married to an alcoholic, but my father is a recovering alcoholic, sober for 20 years.

 

 

I can tell you that the only thing that worked for him was an intervention, and then a 12 step program.

 

He went through those cycles as well. Addiction is a tremendously difficult thing to break with help, let alone on your own.

 

My thoughts are with you and your friends. Substance abuse is awful. :(

[JBJones]

That is a terrible situation. My bio father is an alcoholic, I was married to an alcoholic (not for long, couldn't deal), I was involved with a boyfriend at one time that was a full-blown alcoholic that shot himself in front of me, and alcoholism killed my best friend. She doesn't want a divorce IF there is a hope that he can get better. That hope lays in HIS hands though. She will have to decide how long she is willing to wait on him to stop drinking for good. He has to be the one to realize that he can't have even ONE drink. They each have a decision to make. Never an easy one dealing with alcoholism. She definitely will need to go to a support group if she stays. I'm sorry for your friend's problem. (Not trying to come across as harsh....)

[amyco]

She needs to go to Al-Anon. It is for family members.

 

 

I agree. Go with her if she doesn't want to go alone. They teach you that you can't control what anyone else does (whether he drinks or not), the only thing you can control is your reaction (good life advice in general).

 

Alcoholism is a progressive disease, and he will not recover without treatment, even though he may have dry spells.

 

Hugs to you for being such a supportive friend!

[AlmiraGulch]

She needs to go to Al-Anon. It is for family members.

She definitely will need to go to a support group if she stays. I'm sorry for your friend's problem.

 

 

I agree. Go with her if she doesn't want to go alone. They teach you that you can't control what anyone else does (whether he drinks or not), the only thing you can control is your reaction (good life advice in general).

 

Alcoholism is a progressive disease, and he will not recover without treatment, even though he may have dry spells.

 

Hugs to you for being such a supportive friend!

 

I did mention Al-Anon to her, but she doesn't really know what the point is and I don't really know either, honestly. It was kind of a knee-jerk response based on what I've seen or read in the media.

 

I suppose the group would be there to support her through her decision to stay, if he does, while he works on recovery? Or to help her realize it's not her fault if she leaves if he doesn't? I'd happily go with her but I'm not sure what it's there to do. Does anyone have any personal experience with it?

[Jean in Newcastle]

It helps you to understand what is going on in the alcoholic - how the addiction works. It helps you to understand the negative dynamics that happen between an alcoholic and his family - and there are many, even though it isn't their "fault". It helps you to work on your own behaviors and decisions, as a PP has pointed out.

[AlmiraGulch]

That is a terrible situation. My bio father is an alcoholic, I was married to an alcoholic (not for long, couldn't deal), I was involved with a boyfriend at one time that was a full-blown alcoholic that shot himself in front of me, and alcoholism killed my best friend. She doesn't want a divorce IF there is a hope that he can get better. That hope lays in HIS hands though. She will have to decide how long she is willing to wait on him to stop drinking for good. He has to be the one to realize that he can't have even ONE drink. They each have a decision to make. Never an easy one dealing with alcoholism. She definitely will need to go to a support group if she stays. I'm sorry for your friend's problem.

 

I'm so sorry you've had to go through all of that! How horrifying.

 

Yes, you're right that she doesn't want a divorce only if there is hope that he can get better. She doesn't know how she'll know. I said only time will tell, and it will take time for him to prove himself and to regain her trust. Her question to me was, "What if he slips again? Then what? How many times do I go through this? What if I leave, and the next time would have been THE time?" My answer was "what if you stay, and it keeps happening?" I'm not encouraging her to divorce. Far from it. But I really don't know if I could stay in that sort of relationship, so I don't know how she is.

[AlmiraGulch]

It helps you to understand what is going on in the alcoholic - how the addiction works. It helps you to understand the negative dynamics that happen between an alcoholic and his family - and there are many, even though it isn't their "fault". It helps you to work on your own behaviors and decisions, as a PP has pointed out.

 

That makes sense. Thanks. I do think there is quite a bit of guilt there on her part, too, whether or not it's justified. She needs to let that go.

[unsinkable]

That is a terrible situation. My bio father is an alcoholic, I was married to an alcoholic (not for long, couldn't deal), I was involved with a boyfriend at one time that was a full-blown alcoholic that shot himself in front of me, and alcoholism killed my best friend. She doesn't want a divorce IF there is a hope that he can get better. That hope lays in HIS hands though. She will have to decide how long she is willing to wait on him to stop drinking for good. He has to be the one to realize that he can't have even ONE drink. They each have a decision to make. Never an easy one dealing with alcoholism. She definitely will need to go to a support group if she stays. I'm sorry for your friend's problem.

 

I'm really sorry for all your losses.

 

((Hugs))

[SailorMom]

I'm not excusing his behavior at all, so don't take this post to mean that (and keep in mind I'm a child of two alcoholics - one dead from drunk driving at 50 and one dead from multiple organ failure at 49.... I do take it very seriously). That being said, she needs to first ask herself what is truly bothering her.... Is it that the way he acts intoxicated is obnoxious? Or is it that she is embarrassed and afraid that people look down on her for having him as a spouse? Would she be just as irritated with him if they were at home alone? I know this sounds harsh, but if embarrassment is the issue, she needs to learn that NO ONE looks at him when he's drinking and judges her or their marriage. That right there can take a lot of pressure off of her and make this less emotional. Now she needs to evaluate the actual problem and the level of the problem.... Is he missing work? Is he drinking binge drinking frequently? Can he NOT function without alcohol? Is it just social embarrassment? Or is there a lot more going on behind closed doors? It is possible that if they have a real frank discussion about what he is doing that bothers her - not the drinking, but the consequences of it - he'll get a better understanding of her needs and try to accommodate her. Going off and sneaking drinks can be a sign of things other than alcoholism. If he feels that she is overly controlling him, that he needs to have a certain amount of autonomy in his life (he is an adult, after all), then he will try to find ways of doing that behind her back. It may not all be about the alcohol itself but the act of choosing to go drink. My DH smokes clove cigarettes when he is deployed - one per night - and I have spouses all the time say, "Why do you let him do that???" Let him??? He's a big boy and he keeps it away from me - it's his choice. Obviously there is VERY LITTLE information about this guy and the marriage for anyone here to make a good judgment on what the wife should do - but I do think everyone should step back and not assume immediately that this is all indicative of just a substance abuse problem. There could well be dynamics in the family that are affecting all of this. Another thought.... you said she knew he drank (as was possibly an alcoholic) before she married him. Um.... what was she thinking? That she would change him? How is it fair to love someone and agree to marry them knowing who they are and then demand change once they are married.... I don't get it. She chose to love and marry a man who had a known drinking problem - she needs to accept the ups-and-downs of it as long as he isn't abusive, in my opinion. I'm not trying to be mean and insensitive, but she really needs to take responsibility for her choices here. One last thing- if it is obnoxiousness and not more (not that that isn't cruddy), and if he has been trying to quit/accommodate his wife - I can't imagine why she would even consider divorcing him. Again - this is all based on hardly any information - so please don't rant and get mad at me based on something that wasn't disclosed (i.e. actual abuse).

[AlmiraGulch]

I'm not excusing his behavior at all, so don't take this post to mean that (and keep in mind I'm a child of two alcoholics - one dead from drunk driving at 50 and one dead from multiple organ failure at 49.... I do take it very seriously). That being said, she needs to first ask herself what is truly bothering her.... Is it that the way he acts intoxicated is obnoxious? Or is it that she is embarrassed and afraid that people look down on her for having him as a spouse? Would she be just as irritated with him if they were at home alone? I know this sounds harsh, but if embarrassment is the issue, she needs to learn that NO ONE looks at him when he's drinking and judges her or their marriage. That right there can take a lot of pressure off of her and make this less emotional. Now she needs to evaluate the actual problem and the level of the problem.... Is he missing work? Is he drinking binge drinking frequently? Can he NOT function without alcohol? Is it just social embarrassment? Or is there a lot more going on behind closed doors? It is possible that if they have a real frank discussion about what he is doing that bothers her - not the drinking, but the consequences of it - he'll get a better understanding of her needs and try to accommodate her. Going off and sneaking drinks can be a sign of things other than alcoholism. If he feels that she is overly controlling him, that he needs to have a certain amount of autonomy in his life (he is an adult, after all), then he will try to find ways of doing that behind her back. It may not all be about the alcohol itself but the act of choosing to go drink. My DH smokes clove cigarettes when he is deployed - one per night - and I have spouses all the time say, "Why do you let him do that???" Let him??? He's a big boy and he keeps it away from me - it's his choice. Obviously there is VERY LITTLE information about this guy and the marriage for anyone here to make a good judgment on what the wife should do - but I do think everyone should step back and not assume immediately that this is all indicative of just a substance abuse problem. There could well be dynamics in the family that are affecting all of this. Another thought.... you said she knew he drank (as was possibly an alcoholic) before she married him. Um.... what was she thinking? That she would change him? How is it fair to love someone and agree to marry them knowing who they are and then demand change once they are married.... I don't get it. She chose to love and marry a man who had a known drinking problem - she needs to accept the ups-and-downs of it as long as he isn't abusive, in my opinion. I'm not trying to be mean and insensitive, but she really needs to take responsibility for her choices here. One last thing- if it is obnoxiousness and not more (not that that isn't cruddy), and if he has been trying to quit/accommodate his wife - I can't imagine why she would even consider divorcing him. Again - this is all based on hardly any information - so please don't rant and get mad at me based on something that wasn't disclosed (i.e. actual abuse).

 

Wow. This is a lot to think about.

 

Obviously I don't know all of the details because I'm not in their home 24 hours a day. She did think he had a problem before they married, but he kept saying he'd fix it, and then would, and then fall off. I suppose enough time had passed between his last drinking and the wedding that she decided it was ok. I'm speculating here, though.

 

I do know she is very embarrassed by his behavior. I don't know that I can say that isn't enough to end a marriage. Only she can decide that. I do know it's they sneaking and lying that (the lying, really) that seems to be the deal breaker for her.

 

Is she controlling? Maybe. I don't know for sure, but I could see it. I'm not sure what difference that makes, though. He knows how he is when he drinks. He expresses remorse when he sobers up and realizes what he's done. He makes apologies for his behavior to those he has affected or offended (I have been the recipient of many of those apologies), so it's not just her own embarrassment, but his, too. He's not abusive, he doesn't miss work, none of those things you mentioned, but does she have to be sentenced to a life with a drunk, obnoxious guy who sneaks and lies just because he holds a job and doesn't abuse her? Even if she made a mistake marrying him, why does she have to be obligated to be miserable for the rest of her life? I

[JBJones]

I'm so sorry you've had to go through all of that! How horrifying.

 

Yes, you're right that she doesn't want a divorce only if there is hope that he can get better. She doesn't know how she'll know. I said only time will tell, and it will take time for him to prove himself and to regain her trust. Her question to me was, "What if he slips again? Then what? How many times do I go through this? What if I leave, and the next time would have been THE time?" My answer was "what if you stay, and it keeps happening?" I'm not encouraging her to divorce. Far from it. But I really don't know if I could stay in that sort of relationship, so I don't know how she is.

It's just such a bad situation. It affects every corner of your life. She has to be the one to make the decision. Hopefully, he will get it together. It is a disease. Some people, like my best friend, just can't pull it together. She drank herself into a heart attack. Very sad. I miss her every day.

[elegantlion]

Alcoholics are not known to be the most logical or honest people. She needs to understand the disease of addiction and alcoholism. A recovering alcoholic cannot drink, period. There is not just "one drink". There bodies cannot operate in that fashion. He will not change until he see he has a problem and wants to change.

 

His words of desire to change or "fix it" are meaningless until he puts action to those words. Even then recovery is an ongoing process, it's not a one time thing.

[JBJones]

I'm really sorry for all your losses.

 

((Hugs))

 

Thank-you for your kindness. I miss my friend very much. The boyfriend that shot himself survived, went to rehab, got sober, was sober for 20 years, and is now drinking again.

[JBJones]

Alcoholics are not known to be the most logical or honest people. She needs to understand the disease of addiction and alcoholism. A recovering alcoholic cannot drink, period. There is not just "one drink". There bodies cannot operate in that fashion. He will not change until he see he has a problem and wants to change.

 

His words of desire to change or "fix it" are meaningless until he puts action to those words. Even then recovery is an ongoing process, it's not a one time thing.

Exactly. Just because they stop drinking forever.....they are still alcoholics.

[elegantlion]

Thank-you for your kindness. I miss my friend very much. The boyfriend that shot himself survived, went to rehab, got sober, was sober for 20 years, and is now drinking again.

 

 

I'm sorry. Addiction issues suck.

 

That's also the issue, they can crop up again years later and the downward spiral is generally quicker with each relapse.

 

I wish the genetics of addiction were understood enough so that doctors could go in and reconstruct the DNA to remove that issue. I really do. There are plenty of people who are loving, good people who just turn into someone else while drinking.

 

to the OP, this is going to sound harsh, but I would ask your friend if she is willing to live with alcoholic. Is she willing to put up with it all for now and years to come? There is something special about being a spouse, you're supposed to be a team and support each other. She may be willing to do this now, but what happens if she needs him and he can't emotionally be there? Is she willing to feel alone in their relationship years from now? I say this as someone who is currently dealing with the whirlwind of the chaos of someone who was supposed to be in recovery, someone I have a 20+ year relationship with. It's as if all those years of sobriety just disappeared and the repercussions are much larger at this stage.

 

Drinking problems don't just go away by words or getting swept under the rug. I say this, because I wish someone had warned me 18 months in our marriage.

[JBJones]

 

I'm sorry. Addiction issues suck.

 

That's also the issue, they can crop up again years later and the downward spiral is generally quicker with each relapse.

 

I wish the genetics of addiction were understood enough so that doctors could go in and reconstruct the DNA to remove that issue. I really do. There are plenty of people who are loving, good people who just turn into someone else while drinking.

 

to the OP, this is going to sound harsh, but I would ask your friend if she is willing to live with alcoholic. Is she willing to put up with it all for now and years to come? There is something special about being a spouse, you're supposed to be a team and support each other. She may be willing to do this now, but what happens if she needs him and he can't emotionally be there? Is she willing to feel alone in their relationship years from now? I say this as someone who is currently dealing with the whirlwind of the chaos of someone who was supposed to be in recovery, someone I have a 20+ year relationship with. It's as if all those years of sobriety just disappeared and the repercussions are much larger at this stage.

 

Drinking problems don't just go away by words or getting swept under the rug. I say this, because I wish someone had warned me 18 months in our marriage.

 

Thank-you for your kindness as well. Yes, I didn't want to come across as harsh either. But there is a harsh reality to being married to or involved with someone that has addiction issues. The OP's friend will have to decide on how long she is willing to deal with it, how many chances she is going to give him, etc. It is a hard road.

[butterflymommy]

Please help me to have something intelligent to say to her.

 

 

She needs to accept him as he is or leave. IME alcoholics don't change. They shift, drink less, but then it builds as you describe until they're going through insane amounts.

 

Here and there you can find an alcoholic who has managed to stop drinking but it's so very rare.

 

The person in my family is still a raging alcoholic at age 70. He is/ was also very successful, punctual, functional. He sometimes drank less but it always builds back up. You just take it or leave it with them... I have chosen to keep my distance and it's heart breaking.

[AlmiraGulch]

 

 

 

to the OP, this is going to sound harsh, but I would ask your friend if she is willing to live with alcoholic. Is she willing to put up with it all for now and years to come? There is something special about being a spouse, you're supposed to be a team and support each other. She may be willing to do this now, but what happens if she needs him and he can't emotionally be there? Is she willing to feel alone in their relationship years from now? I say this as someone who is currently dealing with the whirlwind of the chaos of someone who was supposed to be in recovery, someone I have a 20+ year relationship with. It's as if all those years of sobriety just disappeared and the repercussions are much larger at this stage.

 

Drinking problems don't just go away by words or getting swept under the rug. I say this, because I wish someone had warned me 18 months in our marriage.

 

 

I did ask her. That's exactly what I asked her. She says no, she's not, but that many people are successfully treated for addiction. She's right, of course, but the question she really needs to ask herself is how long is she willing to live like this. I suppose she's the only one who knows.

 

I think it would be easier for her if he were abusive, or just mean, or missed work, or didn't pay the bills, or something else bad. It's just insidious, I think, because who knows what it will graduate to? I'm torn in my feelings because on the one hand she shouldn't have to live on the eggshells, wondering what he'll do, wondering if he'll start lying to her again, but on the other hand, they are married, they love each other, and what if this time really is the time he gets help and stays sober? What an awful circumstance to be in.

[AlmiraGulch]

She needs to accept him as he is or leave. IME alcoholics don't change. They shift, drink less, but then it builds as you describe until they're going through insane amounts.

 

Here and there you can find an alcoholic who has managed to stop drinking but it's so very rare.

 

The person in my family is still a raging alcoholic at age 70. He is/ was also very successful, punctual, functional. He sometimes drank less but it always builds back up. You just take it or leave it with them... I have chosen to keep my distance and it's heart breaking.

 

Part of me feels the same way, but I know a lot of people who battled addiction and have been sober for years and years, no relapses. Maybe he will be one of those.

 

Another part of me says ok, what if this is the best it's ever going to be? Is this going to be good enough for the rest of her life?

 

It's scary stuff.

 

My grandfather was an alcoholic and did horrible things. I wouldn't live with it, but then I think I'm biased based on my own experience, as I think all of us are. I always thought my parents were alcoholics while I was growing up. Turns out they just liked to drink a lot, I guess, because once they got older (like in their 50s, maybe? Or early 60s? I can't recall exactly) they pretty much just stopped, except for the occasional glass of wine or scotch. Very occasional. So it's possible for people to drink to excess and not be addicts. I don't know that we can always tell the difference.

[Michelle in AL]

I read a statistic that only 10%of alcoholics remain abstinent for life.

 

That is a sobering statistic and shows how hard this disease is to beat.

 

It's very hard to be married to an alcoholic and even if they quit you're always waiting for the other shoe to drop and start back up again.

[SailorMom]

Wow. This is a lot to think about.

 

Obviously I don't know all of the details because I'm not in their home 24 hours a day. She did think he had a problem before they married, but he kept saying he'd fix it, and then would, and then fall off. I suppose enough time had passed between his last drinking and the wedding that she decided it was ok. I'm speculating here, though.

 

I do know she is very embarrassed by his behavior. I don't know that I can say that isn't enough to end a marriage. Only she can decide that. I do know it's they sneaking and lying that (the lying, really) that seems to be the deal breaker for her.

 

Is she controlling? Maybe. I don't know for sure, but I could see it. I'm not sure what difference that makes, though. He knows how he is when he drinks. He expresses remorse when he sobers up and realizes what he's done. He makes apologies for his behavior to those he has affected or offended (I have been the recipient of many of those apologies), so it's not just her own embarrassment, but his, too. He's not abusive, he doesn't miss work, none of those things you mentioned, but does she have to be sentenced to a life with a drunk, obnoxious guy who sneaks and lies just because he holds a job and doesn't abuse her? Even if she made a mistake marrying him, why does she have to be obligated to be miserable for the rest of her life? I

 

Yeah - I get what you're saying, and I guess my thought is that if she committed to love him the way he was.... well - maybe she can find that again? The first 5 years of marriage are so tough anyway, and then to add this stress in there.... I don't think he'd need to sneak and lie though if they could work this out - and to me that's the worst of it. I have a friend dealing with something similar - and she basically told her DH she wouldn't go anywhere wth him when he drank. He could drink - but not with her around because she didn't like him that way. Anyway - mot of the time he choses her company and doesn't drink. But - before they were open about this, and before my friend went about it this way - he would sneak and lie as well.

[Joanne]

I have to run to get back to group (Outpatience Substance Abuse ;)). But please read this thread for a description of the physical realities of addiciton.

 

Also, while many things and settings can work to help an addict recover, not just 12 step settings, saying that the 12 step thing doesn't work for him is addict speak for "I don't want to stop." It is a defense mechanism.

 

Finally, and I will be back later, not drinking is not recovery. Recovery can happen after abstinence is started, but the two are not synonymous. Unless the addict's brain is changed and healed, they will use again. He has never recovered.

[AlmiraGulch]

I have to run to get back to group (Outpatience Substance Abuse ;)). But please read this threadfor a description of the physical realities of addiciton.

 

Also, while many things and settings can work to help an addict recover, not just 12 step settings, saying that the 12 step thing doesn't work for him is addict speak for "I don't want to stop." It is a defense mechanism.

 

Finally, and I will be back later, not drinking is not recovery. Recovery can happen after abstinence is started, but the two are not synonymous. Unless the addict's brain is changed and healed, they will use again. He has never recovered.

 

 

Thanks, Joanne. I just read it, and it helps. I'm interested to hear more if you have the time and inclination.

[Girl Power]

I'm not excusing his behavior at all, so don't take this post to mean that (and keep in mind I'm a child of two alcoholics - one dead from drunk driving at 50 and one dead from multiple organ failure at 49.... I do take it very seriously). That being said, she needs to first ask herself what is truly bothering her.... Is it that the way he acts intoxicated is obnoxious? Or is it that she is embarrassed and afraid that people look down on her for having him as a spouse? Would she be just as irritated with him if they were at home alone? I know this sounds harsh, but if embarrassment is the issue, she needs to learn that NO ONE looks at him when he's drinking and judges her or their marriage. That right there can take a lot of pressure off of her and make this less emotional. Now she needs to evaluate the actual problem and the level of the problem.... Is he missing work? Is he drinking binge drinking frequently? Can he NOT function without alcohol? Is it just social embarrassment? Or is there a lot more going on behind closed doors? It is possible that if they have a real frank discussion about what he is doing that bothers her - not the drinking, but the consequences of it - he'll get a better understanding of her needs and try to accommodate her. Going off and sneaking drinks can be a sign of things other than alcoholism. If he feels that she is overly controlling him, that he needs to have a certain amount of autonomy in his life (he is an adult, after all), then he will try to find ways of doing that behind her back. It may not all be about the alcohol itself but the act of choosing to go drink. My DH smokes clove cigarettes when he is deployed - one per night - and I have spouses all the time say, "Why do you let him do that???" Let him??? He's a big boy and he keeps it away from me - it's his choice. Obviously there is VERY LITTLE information about this guy and the marriage for anyone here to make a good judgment on what the wife should do - but I do think everyone should step back and not assume immediately that this is all indicative of just a substance abuse problem. There could well be dynamics in the family that are affecting all of this. Another thought.... you said she knew he drank (as was possibly an alcoholic) before she married him. Um.... what was she thinking? That she would change him? How is it fair to love someone and agree to marry them knowing who they are and then demand change once they are married.... I don't get it. She chose to love and marry a man who had a known drinking problem - she needs to accept the ups-and-downs of it as long as he isn't abusive, in my opinion. I'm not trying to be mean and insensitive, but she really needs to take responsibility for her choices here. One last thing- if it is obnoxiousness and not more (not that that isn't cruddy), and if he has been trying to quit/accommodate his wife - I can't imagine why she would even consider divorcing him. Again - this is all based on hardly any information - so please don't rant and get mad at me based on something that wasn't disclosed (i.e. actual abuse).

 

The reality of living with alcoholism can be soul crushing. I am going through a divorce after twenty years of marriage to an alcoholic. It is not the behavior, the mere act of drinking, but all the dysfunction and baggage that comes with it. It is hard to understand unless you have lived it.

 

I'm afraid your friend may have a long road and tough decisions ahead of her.

 

Beck

[Mergath]

I'm married to an alcoholic. He's been sober for a couple of years now (I think, anyway- it was a gradual tapering off more than anything), but when he was heavily drinking, it was a nightmare. He'd drink a case of beer and beat the crap out of me. I had to spend some time in a women's shelter when my dd was a baby. Really, really not good.

 

For my dh, and for many other alcoholics, the drinking is a way of self-medicating when there's an underlying issue. Depression and bipolar disorder, in the case of my dh. And no matter what he did to try to stop drinking, nothing worked until he treated the mental health issues. He spent a month doing inpatient treatment alongside people hooked on meth and cocaine, and even that didn't help. When he finally found the right combination of meds, that is when he was able to quit drinking for good. And I really do believe he's sober for good now. He's had people drink in front of him, offer him drinks, and he hasn't touched it. I won't say he's a completely new man, but it's like the good person I fell in love with, the person who was buried under all the drinking and violence and illness, finally came out and is firmly in charge.

 

So my advice would be for your friend and her husband to figure out if there are any possible underlying mental health issues that need to be treated. Sometimes it's really hard to tell with the drinking. He should also go to meetings. Saying they "aren't his style" is code for "I don't want to quit yet." But he's not going to be able to quit on his own, and not until he wants to. And as frustrating as it is, not wanting to hurt one's family and not wanting to drink anymore aren't the same thing.

[Mergath]

The reality of living with alcoholism can be soul crushing. I am going through a divorce after twenty years of marriage to an alcoholic. It is not the behavior, the mere act of drinking, but all the dysfunction and baggage that comes with it. It is hard to understand unless you have lived it.

 

I'm afraid your friend may have a long road and tough decisions ahead of her.

 

Beck

 

:iagree: When you love an alcoholic, the person you love completely disappears when they drink. It's like looking at a stranger. And it's not something that's easy to understand unless you've lived it. It's one thing to laugh it off when you're dating, but later on, when the person is your husband, the one person who is supposed to be there for you no matter what, looking at them and seeing a stranger is really hard. And it tends to only get harder with time.

[Joanne]

I'm married to an alcoholic. He's been sober for a couple of years now (I think, anyway- it was a gradual tapering off more than anything), but when he was heavily drinking, it was a nightmare. He'd drink a case of beer and beat the crap out of me. I had to spend some time in a women's shelter when my dd was a baby. Really, really not good.

 

For my dh, and for many other alcoholics, the drinking is a way of self-medicating when there's an underlying issue. Depression and bipolar disorder, in the case of my dh. And no matter what he did to try to stop drinking, nothing worked until he treated the mental health issues. He spent a month doing inpatient treatment alongside people hooked on meth and cocaine, and even that didn't help. When he finally found the right combination of meds, that is when he was able to quit drinking for good. And I really do believe he's sober for good now. He's had people drink in front of him, offer him drinks, and he hasn't touched it. I won't say he's a completely new man, but it's like the good person I fell in love with, the person who was buried under all the drinking and violence and illness, finally came out and is firmly in charge.

 

So my advice would be for your friend and her husband to figure out if there are any possible underlying mental health issues that need to be treated. Sometimes it's really hard to tell with the drinking. He should also go to meetings. Saying they "aren't his style" is code for "I don't want to quit yet." But he's not going to be able to quit on his own, and not until he wants to. And as frustrating as it is, not wanting to hurt one's family and not wanting to drink anymore aren't the same thing.

 

Co-occuring issues will predispose a person with a substance abuse or substance dependency issue to chronic relapse. Unless the mental health issue is identified and treated, the person will not recover.

 

It works both directions. You can't exclusively treat PTSD, depression, bi-polar, etc. and expect recovery if a substance abuse issue co-exists.

 

In either paragraph one, or paragraph two, treating one but not the other is exactly like treating heart disease and expecting cancer to go away.

[HS Mom in NC]

I have a dear friend whose husband is an alcoholic. It's not really a secret. We've always known, even before they were married (they got married not long before I did, so about 18 months ago). ... I know she has been embarrassed about it in the past.

 

He has been on and off the wagon several times over the years. ...

 

... She loves her husband but doesn't want to live this way.

 

Please help me to have something intelligent to say to her.

 

 

No direct personal experience here, as I was too young to remember my father drunk before he sobered up, but if this were my friend I would point out that she needs help with how she sees things, how she thinks about things, and how she reacts to things.

 

It was an obvious problem before she got married. If she didn't want to live like people who live with alcoholics live, then she shouldn't have married him in the first place. What was she thinking? Someone in the know needs to help her learn to think about her life clearly now.

 

How meticulous is she about birth control? She needs to be using at least two methods meticulously. My mother (back in 1970) decided that getting pregnant would be a way to "inspire your father to be more responsible." (Her words, not mine.) 2 months after my brother was born I was conceived because she thought breastfeeding alone would be enough. She threw him out during one of his drunken rages when I was 7 days old and my brother was 11 months old. They are morally obligated top not conceive children until this is all better.

[jelbe5]

I have been sober for 20+ years. There is nothing she can do to control or change him. Al-Anon can be helpful. She needs to decide if she can live this way or not and what can she accept and what can she change.

 

My dh simply told me he could not live that way and, even though he loved me he could not be with me. My life was really falling apart. I started going to AA and then therapy. Initially I was not doing it for me, but to keep dh. But it really works if you work it, one day at a time. Things started getting better. Today I can honestly say I would never want to go back to that.

 

I'm really sorry for your friend. I'm a big advocate of tough love. My dh refused to play my game. I knew he meant what he said. It turned my life around. I don't know if that helps. That is just my story and all I have to share. Hugs.

[Liberty]

I am a spouse of an alcoholic, whom I love very much. When we got married he was in recovery and I was very naive. At one point after we were married and before we had children, he relapsed. It was an awful experience and I initially left him. My leaving prompted him to seek recovery. However, every 3-4 years over the past 20 years of our marriage, it has been the same cycle. He has never been abusive and has always maintained employment, but he's not a nice person when he drinks (argumentative, beligerant, lying). It is like living on eggshells. And, now, unfortunately, my children get to experience the roller coaster ride with me whenever he falls off the wagon. My advice would be this: if your friend does not have children, she should leave the marriage now. That's the advice I wish I'd gotten and followed oh so many years ago. Once you have kids, you get to live with the guilt of messing with their lives also and risking the cycle repeating for them when they grow up. Two of my children have already gone to counseling and have anger issues, one is very young. But, I'm keenly aware of what leaving him could do. Divorce becomes a crap shoot in your mind....do I stay in the marriage in order to make sure my kids are protected when he drinks (not if, but when) or do I divorce and risk my kids being vulnerable when they go to Dad's for the weekend and I can't be a buffer? It's such a difficult situation and I will keep your friend in my prayers.

[Girl Power]

I am a spouse of an alcoholic, whom I love very much. When we got married he was in recovery and I was very naive. At one point after we were married and before we had children, he relapsed. It was an awful experience and I initially left him. My leaving prompted him to seek recovery. However, every 3-4 years over the past 20 years of our marriage, it has been the same cycle. He has never been abusive and has always maintained employment, but he's not a nice person when he drinks (argumentative, beligerant, lying). It is like living on eggshells. And, now, unfortunately, my children get to experience the roller coaster ride with me whenever he falls off the wagon. My advice would be this: if your friend does not have children, she should leave the marriage now. That's the advice I wish I'd gotten and followed oh so many years ago. Once you have kids, you get to live with the guilt of messing with their lives also and risking the cycle repeating for them when they grow up. Two of my children have already gone to counseling and have anger issues, one is very young. But, I'm keenly aware of what leaving him could do. Divorce becomes a crap shoot in your mind....do I stay in the marriage in order to make sure my kids are protected when he drinks (not if, but when) or do I divorce and risk my kids being vulnerable when they go to Dad's for the weekend and I can't be a buffer? It's such a difficult situation and I will keep your friend in my prayers.

 

(())) This exactly.

 

The spectrum of emotion as a spouse is profound. Guilt, anger, resentment, sadness. Having children magnifies that exponentially. Periods of sobriety for us were very short lived; he never really accepted he was an alcoholic so never allowed others to truly help him. He would begrudgingly abstain for a while to appease me; thus, the road to recovery for him never happened.

 

I know finding support for me would have helped immensely, but I never did. I spent years thinking I could fix things, make him happy if I tried harder, was a better mother, wife, kept the house cleaner, was prettier, etc, etc. Part of his alcoholism was blaming others for his unhappiness, thus the reason for his drinking. Hope finally died after so many relapses and I was left with the decision to disengage and try to make the best of it, do my best to put on a smile and live parallel lives for "my kids sake".

 

Eventually things got too bad for even me, we just disliked each other too much. He, not having any insight into his disease, resented me for being distant. For me, it was the only way I could survive. One night we argued which culminated in him striking me, and that was the end. Our children witnessed it, and they'll carry that with them forever.

 

Having distance now (we've been separated for almost a year), I can see so clearly the patterns that are so typical in alcoholics, which all seems to get blurred while you're living it. I feel sadness and sorrow for him, but I feel healthier and happier than I have in a long, long time.

 

I'm sorry to say the chances of your friend finding long term happiness with an alcoholic are slim. Whatever road she ultimately takes with her marriage, I agree that bringing children into this relationship unless or until he has committed to long term recovery is a terrible idea.

 

Blessings,

Beck

[SailorMom]

The reality of living with alcoholism can be soul crushing. I am going through a divorce after twenty years of marriage to an alcoholic. It is not the behavior, the mere act of drinking, but all the dysfunction and baggage that comes with it. It is hard to understand unless you have lived it.

 

I'm afraid your friend may have a long road and tough decisions ahead of her.

 

Beck

I did live with it - my entire life until I moved out. I had a mom crying on my shoulder at age 10, drunk off her you-know-what asking me if she should leave my dad who was drunk off his you-know-what. I am not saying she should or should not leave this man - but I am saying that not all alcoholics, or all alcoholism, is the same. There are degrees. And not all alcoholics get worse over time. Many just kinda sway back and forth on a small spectrum of abuse. As for my friend - her DH was verbally abusive when he drank, and I TOLD her to leave him. I begged her not to have children with him (she did anyway), and two years ago I was about to fly to another state to drag her our of the house. They are actually doing really well right now. After she almost left him was when she really started communicating with him. He heard her, he loves her, and he is really trying. My thought is that having a DH who is obnoxious when he drinks is not a good thing by any means, but it also isn't the worst thing. So - she needs to decide if she can love him that way, and not try to spend the next 20 years failing to control him or being angry and hurt by who he is. If he changes, great - but she can't plan on that.

[Joanne]

I did live with it - my entire life until I moved out. I had a mom crying on my shoulder at age 10, drunk off her you-know-what asking me if she should leave my dad who was drunk off his you-know-what. I am not saying she should or should not leave this man - but I am saying that not all alcoholics, or all alcoholism, is the same. There are degrees. And not all alcoholics get worse over time. Many just kinda sway back and forth on a small spectrum of abuse. As for my friend - her DH was verbally abusive when he drank, and I TOLD her to leave him. I begged her not to have children with him (she did anyway), and two years ago I was about to fly to another state to drag her our of the house. They are actually doing really well right now. After she almost left him was when she really started communicating with him. He heard her, he loves her, and he is really trying. My thought is that having a DH who is obnoxious when he drinks is not a good thing by any means, but it also isn't the worst thing. So - she needs to decide if she can love him that way, and not try to spend the next 20 years failing to control him or being angry and hurt by who he is. If he changes, great - but she can't plan on that.

 

 

It's true that substance dependence "plays out" differently for each person.

 

When it is a family, there are pros and cons on each side. The family members will need information, education, love, support, and often a specific structured guidance regardless of the decision to stay/go.

 

Al Anon teaches the family members how best to find and acquire peace and happiness whether they stay, go, sever ties, impose boundaries, etc.

 

Another not-discussed enough issue is that most (by numbers) relationships don't make it through early recovery. Being an untreated addict is stressful on the family. But early recovery is ALSO stressful. It is stressful in known, predictable, patterned ways. But if you don't *know* that information, you are at a severe disadvantage. The very thing the family wanted - recovery - ends the relationship.

 

The "early" recovery process takes a minimum of 2 years.

[Girl Power]

I did live with it - my entire life until I moved out. I had a mom crying on my shoulder at age 10, drunk off her you-know-what asking me if she should leave my dad who was drunk off his you-know-what. I am not saying she should or should not leave this man - but I am saying that not all alcoholics, or all alcoholism, is the same. There are degrees. And not all alcoholics get worse over time. Many just kinda sway back and forth on a small spectrum of abuse. As for my friend - her DH was verbally abusive when he drank, and I TOLD her to leave him. I begged her not to have children with him (she did anyway), and two years ago I was about to fly to another state to drag her our of the house. They are actually doing really well right now. After she almost left him was when she really started communicating with him. He heard her, he loves her, and he is really trying. My thought is that having a DH who is obnoxious when he drinks is not a good thing by any means, but it also isn't the worst thing. So - she needs to decide if she can love him that way, and not try to spend the next 20 years failing to control him or being angry and hurt by who he is. If he changes, great - but she can't plan on that.

 

This misses the point. The issue is not how he acts when he is drinking (hell, my husband LOVED me when he was drinking, lol. It was the only time he was nice to any of us). When there is an addiction, there is a huge chasm between you that can never be filled. His first love is and always will be his drinking. It will always come first and will be defended to the death if at risk of losing it, at least from someone in denial like my husband. When confronted with his drinking he became angry and ugly and hurtful. The addiction is always there. It permeates everything about your relationship, your family, your being. Maybe all alcoholics don't "get worse" over time, but whatever alcoholism looks like in one family as opposed to another, it is always there, and it eats away at your spirit day after day.

 

I'm sorry you grew up in an alcoholic household, and I'm sure you hold that unique perspective. But living with a husband who is an alcoholic holds another perspective as well. This is a man you CHOOSE to spend your life with, a man you want to love and be faithful to, and every day you feel betrayed by that monster that is alcohol, which has a hold on your husband. It's painful and draining and will wear you down to nothing. I am not telling her to run now, but it's very easy early on to minimize and justify behavior and she is right to heavily weigh whether she wants to go down that road.

 

Blessings,

Beck

[Laurie4b]

I did mention Al-Anon to her, but she doesn't really know what the point is and I don't really know either, honestly. It was kind of a knee-jerk response based on what I've seen or read in the media.

 

I suppose the group would be there to support her through her decision to stay, if he does, while he works on recovery? Or to help her realize it's not her fault if she leaves if he doesn't? I'd happily go with her but I'm not sure what it's there to do. Does anyone have any personal experience with it?

 

Besides what others have mentioned, another reason to go to Al-Anon is to model seeking help for the children.

Al-Anon will be with others who have been there done that or are there doing that. There is support and wisdom. She can learn through others' experiences. It is no longer a secret.

[lllll]

..

[HS Mom in NC]

Oftentimes, one will think that they will be able to change said spouse. That things will change once they have a ring on their finger. Unrealistic, yes, but reality in a lot of relationships.

 

 

Yes, that's the point I was making-SHE is the one who needs to see that her thinking was not clear at the time. That's what I meant by "What was she thinking?" She needs to answer that question out loud in words and have someone who knows how to deal with these things teach her how to think clearly about it now.

 

I really do think one thing that is lacking in our social norms (I assume not in therapy) is that the spouses who get into these relationships when there was an obvious problem are not held accountable. Then they go on to continue to make bad decisions about bringing helpless children into the chaos and the ripple effect happens to the children. I think a little more in the tough love department early on could solve misery to innocent children later, but too many people are afraid that they might offend.

 

Having a candid conservation with both parties in that kind of relationship needs be along the lines of "This is unsuitable for children-don't make any until this problem has been cleared up long term." She needs to see that it's possible it won't get cleared up long term, which would mean remaining childless or divorcing him and marrying someone who doesn't have problems that require avoiding conceiving children.

[SailorMom]

Yes, that's the point I was making-SHE is the one who needs to see that her thinking was not clear at the time. That's what I meant by "What was she thinking?" She needs to answer that question out loud in words and have someone who knows how to deal with these things teach her how to think clearly about it now.

 

I really do think one thing that is lacking in our social norms (I assume not in therapy) is that the spouses who get into these relationships when there was an obvious problem are not held accountable. Then they go on to continue to make bad decisions about bringing helpless children into the chaos and the ripple effect happens to the children. I think a little more in the tough love department early on could solve misery to innocent children later, but too many people are afraid that they might offend.

 

 

 

This. We also have to remember that we aren't just talking about the wife here. This man has feelings, emotions, a life. He married her thinking she accepted him and loved him for who he was/is. He did not change after they were married. Alcoholism does not negate his humanity nor does it make him a bad person who should be discounted. The reason I asked if he was ok in other aspects (no abuse, etc.) is that those times he's drinking doesn't make him who he is. She obviously saw around this when she was dating him and loved who she saw. No marriage is easy, no person is perfect. If not alcoholism, her next choice might have narcissistic tendencies or something. I'm not saying his drinking is ok, but leaving him thinking she will find a better marriage with someone else is rather misguided. So - if she chooses to leave, she needs to do so only on the basis of this relationship and not with unrealistic hopes of a replacement. I've seen it happen over and over. One marriage left, a new "perfect" guy, a new messed up marriage..... it's a tough cycle to break. I grew up with alcohol abusing parents, and could they have done better? Sure, but we all can. They loved me, and I knew it. I think I turned out ok. If she stays with him and has kids, she needs to advocate for them, and they need to have firm boundaries in place. I'm not saying it is or isn't a good idea - but again - if he id a good guy in all other respects.... he could turn out to be a fantastic father. I know there are people here who have had (or still have) spouses who abuse alcohol who think I'm nuts and have no idea what I'm talking about - but not all alcoholism looks the same/is the same/turns out the same, and it shouldn't be treated the same.

[AlmiraGulch]

I am a spouse of an alcoholic, whom I love very much. When we got married he was in recovery and I was very naive. At one point after we were married and before we had children, he relapsed. It was an awful experience and I initially left him. My leaving prompted him to seek recovery. However, every 3-4 years over the past 20 years of our marriage, it has been the same cycle. He has never been abusive and has always maintained employment, but he's not a nice person when he drinks (argumentative, beligerant, lying). It is like living on eggshells. And, now, unfortunately, my children get to experience the roller coaster ride with me whenever he falls off the wagon. My advice would be this: if your friend does not have children, she should leave the marriage now. That's the advice I wish I'd gotten and followed oh so many years ago. Once you have kids, you get to live with the guilt of messing with their lives also and risking the cycle repeating for them when they grow up. Two of my children have already gone to counseling and have anger issues, one is very young. But, I'm keenly aware of what leaving him could do. Divorce becomes a crap shoot in your mind....do I stay in the marriage in order to make sure my kids are protected when he drinks (not if, but when) or do I divorce and risk my kids being vulnerable when they go to Dad's for the weekend and I can't be a buffer? It's such a difficult situation and I will keep your friend in my prayers.

 

I hate that you've had to live like this.

 

They do not have children together,nor will they ever, but they do have children from previous marriages. Fortunately (if there is anything to be fortunate about) he doesn't drink in front of the children at all, so they don't see what she does.

 

Still, kids are much smarter and more intuitive than we give them credit for. They'll know that something is wrong between their parents, and in my opinion that's not the marriage model they should be providing their collective children, all of whom have already been through their parents' divorcing.

[Kebo]

 

 

 

This. We also have to remember that we aren't just talking about the wife here. This man has feelings, emotions, a life. He married her thinking she accepted him and loved him for who he was/is. He did not change after they were married. Alcoholism does not negate his humanity nor does it make him a bad person who should be discounted. The reason I asked if he was ok in other aspects (no abuse, etc.) is that those times he's drinking doesn't make him who he is. She obviously saw around this when she was dating him and loved who she saw. No marriage is easy, no person is perfect. If not alcoholism, her next choice might have narcissistic tendencies or something. I'm not saying his drinking is ok, but leaving him thinking she will find a better marriage with someone else is rather misguided. So - if she chooses to leave, she needs to do so only on the basis of this relationship and not with unrealistic hopes of a replacement. I've seen it happen over and over. One marriage left, a new "perfect" guy, a new messed up marriage..... it's a tough cycle to break. I grew up with alcohol abusing parents, and could they have done better? Sure, but we all can. They loved me, and I knew it. I think I turned out ok. If she stays with him and has kids, she needs to advocate for them, and they need to have firm boundaries in place. I'm not saying it is or isn't a good idea - but again - if he id a good guy in all other respects.... he could turn out to be a fantastic father. I know there are people here who have had (or still have) spouses who abuse alcohol who think I'm nuts and have no idea what I'm talking about - but not all alcoholism looks the same/is the same/turns out the same, and it shouldn't be treated the same.

 

She probably did love him for who he was .... when he was sober. Or, who she thought he was; which may have been someone mature enough to see when his drinking was out of control and address it.

 

Very few people can see the future clearly when they get married. Knowing that someone liked to drink and might have some issues doesn't mean you understand what it is like to live with an alcoholic. It's more than just living with someone who is occasionally obnoxious. It's living with someone who thinks like an alcoholic. Who is willing to offend people, and be cruel, and lie, and make bad (sometimes staggeringly bad) decisions and generally bug out on being a good spouse and parent because they would rather drink alcohol than not. I know it is not that simple, but from a spouse's perspective ..... they could have a good marriage if he just quit drinking and he chooses not to. If you can’t save him, and he won’t save himself, do you have to go down with him? Do the children?

[AlmiraGulch]

Yes, that's the point I was making-SHE is the one who needs to see that her thinking was not clear at the time. That's what I meant by "What was she thinking?" She needs to answer that question out loud in words and have someone who knows how to deal with these things teach her how to think clearly about it now.

 

I really do think one thing that is lacking in our social norms (I assume not in therapy) is that the spouses who get into these relationships when there was an obvious problem are not held accountable. Then they go on to continue to make bad decisions about bringing helpless children into the chaos and the ripple effect happens to the children. I think a little more in the tough love department early on could solve misery to innocent children later, but too many people are afraid that they might offend.

 

Having a candid conservation with both parties in that kind of relationship needs be along the lines of "This is unsuitable for children-don't make any until this problem has been cleared up long term." She needs to see that it's possible it won't get cleared up long term, which would mean remaining childless or divorcing him and marrying someone who doesn't have problems that require avoiding conceiving children.

 

 

I appreciate your perspective and for taking the time to respond. I do want as many perspectives as possible, and will be printing these for her to read.

 

I do think you're being a bit harsh on her, though. She did know there was a problem, but for whatever reason she thought he'd cleaned up his act. Like I said previously, there was apparently enough change in behavior and enough time had passed that he didn't drink between their engagement and the marriage that she felt "safe" moving forward. Clearly, it didn't work out the way she thought it would, but she didn't go in thinking she could change him. She thought he'd done that himself. And not having experience with addiction previously she had no reason to see the pitfalls everyone is pointing out. Naive? Maybe. But she certainly didn't get married thinking it was only a matter of time before he relapsed. I know, because I spoke with her about this very thing earlier today.

 

I do understand your point when people do what you're talking about, but that wasn't the case here.

[AlmiraGulch]

 

 

This. We also have to remember that we aren't just talking about the wife here. This man has feelings, emotions, a life. He married her thinking she accepted him and loved him for who he was/is. He did not change after they were married. Alcoholism does not negate his humanity nor does it make him a bad person who should be discounted. The reason I asked if he was ok in other aspects (no abuse, etc.) is that those times he's drinking doesn't make him who he is. She obviously saw around this when she was dating him and loved who she saw. No marriage is easy, no person is perfect. If not alcoholism, her next choice might have narcissistic tendencies or something. I'm not saying his drinking is ok, but leaving him thinking she will find a better marriage with someone else is rather misguided. So - if she chooses to leave, she needs to do so only on the basis of this relationship and not with unrealistic hopes of a replacement. I've seen it happen over and over. One marriage left, a new "perfect" guy, a new messed up marriage..... it's a tough cycle to break. I grew up with alcohol abusing parents, and could they have done better? Sure, but we all can. They loved me, and I knew it. I think I turned out ok. If she stays with him and has kids, she needs to advocate for them, and they need to have firm boundaries in place. I'm not saying it is or isn't a good idea - but again - if he id a good guy in all other respects.... he could turn out to be a fantastic father. I know there are people here who have had (or still have) spouses who abuse alcohol who think I'm nuts and have no idea what I'm talking about - but not all alcoholism looks the same/is the same/turns out the same, and it shouldn't be treated the same.

 

 

Again, not so much true. He did change his behavior for an extended period before they got married. She made it very clear that she wouldn't marry him otherwise.

 

You're right, though, that she really does love him. He's a good man. That's why this is so hard for her. If he were just an irresponsible a-hole all the time it would be much easier.

 

Someone here previously suggested that they just not go places where he's bound to get drunk and act like an idiot. Could that be a viable solution? I don't know. Maybe, particularly since that's what causes the behavior. Then again, I think it's likely to just bleed into the home at some point if he truly is an addict.

[AlmiraGulch]

She probably did love him for who he was .... when he was sober. Or, who she thought he was; which may have been someone mature enough to see when his drinking was out of control and address it.

 

Very few people can see the future clearly when they get married. Knowing that someone liked to drink and might have some issues doesn't mean you understand what it is like to live with an alcoholic. It's more than just living with someone who is occasionally obnoxious. It's living with someone who thinks like an alcoholic. Who is willing to offend people, and be cruel, and lie, and make bad (sometimes staggeringly bad) decisions and generally bug out on being a good spouse and parent because they would rather drink alcohol than not. I know it is not that simple, but from a spouse's perspective ..... they could have a good marriage if he just quit drinking and he chooses not to. If you can’t save him, and he won’t save himself, do you have to go down with him? Do the children?

 

 

Yes! This exactly!!! This is exactly what happened, and the struggle she's facing now. Part of me wishes he were just a jerk. It would be much easier on her. He isn't, though. DH and I are friends with him, too. We care about them both. It's just.....complicated.

[justasque]

Interesting article by Russel Brand about addiction - might be worth a read for your friend.

 

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/03/the-only-way-to-help-addicts-is-to-treat-them-as-sick-not-bad/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-only-way-to-help-addicts-is-to-treat-them-as-sick-not-bad

[AlmiraGulch]

Interesting article by Russel Brand about addiction - might be worth a read for your friend.

 

http://blogs.spectat...as-sick-not-bad

 

I'd heard about this article but hadn't read it. Great read. My favorite passage is:

 

Without these fellowships I would take drugs. Because even now the condition persists. Drugs and alcohol are not my problem — reality is my problem. Drugs and alcohol are my solution.

 

Also, who knew Russel Brand was such a prolific writer?

[Joanne]

Interesting article by Russel Brand about addiction - might be worth a read for your friend.

 

http://blogs.spectat...as-sick-not-bad

 

 

 

Great article. I will be using this at work.

[laughing lioness]

I'm not married to an alcoholic, but my father is a recovering alcoholic, sober for 20 years.

 

 

I can tell you that the only thing that worked for him was an intervention, and then a 12 step program.

 

He went through those cycles as well. Addiction is a tremendously difficult thing to break with help, let alone on your own.

 

My thoughts are with you and your friends. Substance abuse is awful. :(

 

 

This. The above probably (very literally) saved my younger sis's life. She has been married for 24 yrs. Dh knew she had a drinking prob (jail for dui and bounced checks b4 marriage) He is a good enabler...

The book "habits" has some interesting thoughts on addictive behavior.

Al-anon or any 12 step (if there isn't that specific one in her area) are all great. Went to a 12 step program for several months last year and it really made a diff.

[elegantlion]

Question then. I just read the article. I've upped my respect for that man, for his honesty and writing ability.

 

Anyway, I struggled years ago and came to conclusion that addiction is a disease, don't have a problem with that. So, how does one reconcile their need to remove themselves from the lives of an addict? Do you go with the fact they're not recognizing their problem? Do you look at the greater damage they can do to their family, emotional and physical? What makes the disease of addiction such a dealbreaker, which I believe it should be in some cases? One wouldn't leave a cancer victim without support, why an addict? I know it's complex and probably some underlying psychology, but I struggled with the leaving for years about that.