Would you take this "job"?

[joannqn]

I go to a small church without a lot of resources. It's new, only 4 years old.

 

It is the hope of the church to offer Financial Peace University twice a year, and I have been asked to be the primary child care provider for participants in FPU. He wants me to be the primary person in charge and do art with the kids old enough to participate. Then there would be a call for volunteers...an adult and maybe some teens...to help with the infants/toddlers. I would be paid $10 an hour for two hours on Sundays for nine weeks. That's all the church can afford. He's hoping he can ask the parents to pitch in at the end of FPU to help cover my salary, to give gift cards to the volunteers, and perhaps help me with supply costs.

 

It is also the leader's hope that I would come up with an art curriculum (for lack of a better word) that could be used for each FPU session. I would determine the projects, make the samples, write up the directions, and come up with supply list so anyone could do the art with the kids. I get all of my ideas from a particular blog...so this wouldn't be hard to do.

 

I'd be doing this during the spring and fall. The timing was determined by me. The first time they offered FPU was last summer, and I helped with the childcare. It sucked being stuck at home every weekend of the summer, and I'm unwilling to give up my family's summer again.

 

So, it is $180 twice a year. I'd use the money for our home school expenses.

 

Why me? Why art? Because last summer's FPU was crazy; we had four 5-6 year old boys with two hours of free play together, driving us nuts. Then the week before the last, I brought an art project. They sat, content to follow my directions in creating the art project I had brought. It was bliss compared to the previous 7 weeks, so I brought more art the last week, with the same wonderful results. Then they offered FPU again, only the leader assumed his wife would provide childcare on her own with the help of their 11 year old daughter. BAD idea! Too many kids, too few adults. She called begging me to help. I've been bringing art for the last 7-8 weeks, and the kids love it. Fortunately, I have the supplies I've needed so it hasn't cost much.

 

 

ETA: In the fall, I have a three day job that pays at least $400. Between that job and this, if I take it, I'd have $760 towards homeschool expenses without having to find it in our stretched budget. I never know how much I'll have available for schooling because we can't afford to budget for it; it comes out of the bigger projects DH gets on occasion that can't be foreseen.

[AK_Mom4]

I would do it for the $180 and consider all the extra time I would put in as just a gift to the ministry.

 

Sounds like something that would be really fun for the kids!

[Hockey Mom]

Would you be responsible for paying for all of the art supplies? If so, how much of your earnings would go toward it?

[happi duck]

It sounds great! You could use the same nine projects each session, right? People don't repeat do they?

[joannqn]

It sounds great! You could use the same nine projects each session, right? People don't repeat do they?

 

 

 

Yes, I could. People can repeat if they wish. The fee they pay to participate covers the materials. The class itself is free, as is any repeats since you don't need new books every time you do it.

[fraidycat]

Sure. It is always nice to know that you've got some money to put toward school expenses.

[happi duck]

 

 

Yes, I could. People can repeat if they wish. The fee they pay to participate covers the materials. The class itself is free, as is any repeats since you don't need new books every time you do it.

 

 

It sounds like you have a talent for this and would have a great nine week program!

[joannqn]

Sure. It is always nice to know that you've got some money to put toward school expenses.

 

 

 

That's probably the biggest draw. I'm not one of those people who enjoy being around a bunch of kids, taking care of other people's kids, etc. But teaching art is much more enjoyable than simply watching kids play and trying to keep them from being too loud, hurting each other, or breaking something.

 

I've been introducing them to Prismacolor pencils, watercolor pencils, pastels, oil pastels, etc. So, they are getting exposure to art media they might not otherwise see at school or home. I would do watercolors (I have Dick Blick liquid watercolors that I love), but I'm out of watercolor paper and the stuff is expensive. I'd love to pick a black paper project, too, but that costs more than watercolor paper.

[Erica in OR]

Sounds like fun, some money into the homeschool kitty, and a neat curriculum plan that you could maybe even offer outside of FPU.

 

I'd encourage your FPU leader to not wait until the end to solicit donations, but to have a set cost upfront, or perhaps label it a "suggested donation" per child for the run of the entire session. In my own experience with FPU, at the beginning participants are already committing themselves by purchasing the materials (not inexpensive) and are probably more prepared for an outlay of expense for child care at the start, compared to the end of the session when everyone should be energized to be working the Dave Ramsey steps. Even a charge of $2 per hour per child would be quite reasonable for plain babysitting, plus they're getting a great art class on top of it. Seeing how many kids you have coming at the start and having that money in hand would help you know what supplies you could afford. Advertising it as art classes rather than just child care to potential FPU participants might help draw a bigger crowd too.

 

Erica in OR

[bettyandbob]

I think $10/hour is underpaid. I know this is the limit of the church's budget, but it is too little. You are not just providing child care. You are not just teaching. In addition to teaching and chilcare you are developing curriculum the church will continue to use (and presumably own) for ever.

 

Where is the budget for the art supplies? At some point your personal closet for art will run out. Materials do cost money. You really should be reimbursed for thesupplies you've already used and you should be given a budget for supplies each session.

 

At a very minimum, I think you should try for a donation per child for the session as a PP suggested.

 

 

[ElaineJ]

I also agree that the church should ask for a certain amount per child for childcare upfront. You should be getting at least 5 dollars per child per session, in my opinion. I would happily pay 5 dollars per kid for them to havea well planned 2 hour art class while I participated in an adult activity which interested me for free! The church could use whatever money they have available to "scholarship" those who truly cannot afford the 5 dollars but would be greatly benefitted by the program.

Elaine

[Annie G]

I get that the church budget is tight- but they should pay for the art supplies. Have you talked to them about it? Explain that you're willing to take the $10 an hour IF the kids are doing a structured activity (art) and if the church pays for the supplies. However, if the kids are just spending two hours in free play, you want $20 per hour because it's much more work to deal with kids who are cooped up and bored.

[bolt.]

If this ministry pleases your heart and your gifting, I'd do it, even if things are not ideally structured money-wise.

 

As for the money, I suggest they add an "optional charge" at the beginning for "children's supplies" -- keeping "childcare" free, but mirroring the FPU model of paying for the materials. If people just couldn't afford it, they will ask, "What do you mean optional? If I can't pay, can my kids still come? Will they not be able to do the arts/crafts?" -- which your pastor can tell them it's fine, or that they might 'pay what they can, when they can'.

 

Then, if the Church pays $10/wk, at least that will be money in real terms, not constantly getting spent on the program you are providing.

 

By the way, beware: the moment you get paid (even peanuts) for church work, people tend to shift from being 'so grateful for your amazing help' to having standards and expectations for your work -- not nessesarily your pastor, but perhaps the parents (and it won't matter if the parents pay or not -- there's just a shift in how paid-providers are viewed. It's not that bad (they dont turn into monsters or anything) but it usually surprises people the first time around, do its good to have a heads up.

[elegantlion]

I'll be the odd man out and say no. 10.00/hour isn't enough to plan and execute a program. If you feel led to do this as ministry, the 10.00/hour would be sufficient, only if they provide supplies.

 

I've donated hundreds of hours to church projects, but sticking me in a room with kids and art projects (which I love) would test the limits of my patience. Do you get a say on the age of child? I can imagine a parent wanting their 2 year old in there because big sibling is in there too. Will you have assistants? Do you want to monitor a toddler with a paint brush wandering around? Okay, my pessimistic thinking, but in my time of volunteering those cases usually pop up.

 

The money is alluring, and if you think it'd be a fun task to try, the time commitment is not huge. I might commit to one 9 week session and let them know.

 

I would also want some sort of guideline of who has authority over the class. Do you get a say if a child is being unruly or is not age appropriate? Or will you have to suck it up, because they want adults in the FPU class and without child care they won't be able to attend.

[songsparrow]

Is there a potential for a lot of kids to be there? If so, I would want a limit on how many kids can participate, or stipulate that there needs to be an adult/teen helper for every x number of kids.

 

And I agree that the payment for the art supplies should come up front. Otherwise, you could easily end up being out a good chunk of that $180 that you planned to earn because you paid for art supplies that were not reimbursed.

 

Finally, is it committed that you'll be paid the $180 regardless of whether the amount that the parents chip in at the end covers that cost or not?

[Lolly]

I'd spell it out more clearly before even considering it. They will ask for volunteers? You won't get them. They will ask the parents to pitch in to cover cost of materials? You won't be making money, you might even wind up paying money to do this job after you subtract the expenses.

[FaithManor]

I would only take it if the church charged a reasonable price to the parents to cover the supplies. The pay is too low for you to take it out of your pay and if you continue you doing this for weeks on end, eventually you'll deplete your homeschool supply and start eating into your pay. There is nothing wrong with parents paying for the art projects since it's a service to them while they go to class. Many art projects can be accomplished for $3.00 each and that's just no much for the parent to pay.

 

I'd also make my expectations very clear about the number of volunteers that MUST show up to help. My back-up plan would be to have reliable teens on speed dial if people are no shows with the teens presenting the church with a bill for babysitting if the volunteers back out. It's one thing for a teen to volunteer an hour or two out of the goodness of their hearts for a special service. It's quite another to do this for 18 hours. The congregation must understand that it cannot take advantage of people. Also, develop a policy that if volunteers do not show up and you don't have teens who want the job, parents will not be allowed to drop the younger children for care. If you don't have that policy, you could end up with 30 kids under 5 and 1 or 2 adults trying to manage them without a plan. Not good.

 

But, if all of these things were in place, I would definitely consider it and especially if there was something expensive I'd like to play with in my homeschooling and didn't have the extra funds to purchase.

 

Faith

[QueenCat]

I I would be paid $10 an hour for two hours on Sundays for nine weeks. That's all the church can afford. He's hoping he can ask the parents to pitch in at the end of FPU to help cover my salary, to give gift cards to the volunteers, and perhaps help me with supply costs.

 

I would probably do it IF the church guaranteed reimbursement for supplies but the "perhaps help me with supply costs" would concern me. I would have to have a supply fund up front, so I would know how much could be spent.

[vonfirmath]

Sounds like fun, some money into the homeschool kitty, and a neat curriculum plan that you could maybe even offer outside of FPU.

 

I'd encourage your FPU leader to not wait until the end to solicit donations, but to have a set cost upfront, or perhaps label it a "suggested donation" per child for the run of the entire session. In my own experience with FPU, at the beginning participants are already committing themselves by purchasing the materials (not inexpensive) and are probably more prepared for an outlay of expense for child care at the start, compared to the end of the session when everyone should be energized to be working the Dave Ramsey steps. Even a charge of $2 per hour per child would be quite reasonable for plain babysitting, plus they're getting a great art class on top of it. Seeing how many kids you have coming at the start and having that money in hand would help you know what supplies you could afford. Advertising it as art classes rather than just child care to potential FPU participants might help draw a bigger crowd too.

 

Erica in OR

 

Our last church had paid childcare for some of their activities. The cost was $5 per child per night. You had to pay upfront for the entire session, and got no refunds if you missed a night.

[Punks in Ontario]

I did something similar at our church for a couple of years. By the time I paid for fuel and some of the craft expenses that I didn't get reimbursed for, it was basically a volunteer position which was fine. I didn't charge for the craft supplies or snack supplies that came out out of the family supplies.

 

The one small problem that I ran into was that there was a perception that I was paid, not volunteer which wasn't too big a deal. Some people thought I was actually earning money. LOL.

[bettyandbob]

.

 

The one small problem that I ran into was that there was a perception that I was paid, not volunteer which wasn't too big a deal. Some people thought I was actually earning money. LOL.

 

This could turn into big problem, with people taking advantage of the fact that you are an employee and having expectations that you are being compensated reasonably. Additionally, That $10 coud be eaten up on gas and supplies, but you will still have to pay income tax.

[elfgivas]

i think this is a fabulous idea and program. the trick will be structuring it so that it works for everyone. how many children are you imagining? infants? toddlers?

 

if you were to have been asked to do this at a church where i was the pastor, i would react really well to you drawing up a plan, with potential solutions. and i would be very thankful to see that you were organized and taking ownership of it all.

 

eg. have a plan with 9 weeks of activities, figure out the supplies needed for each one, and then calculate the cost of each activity per child. because you will need to purchase the items before the actual activity, people/the church need to pay you at least the week before. if you get all the money up front, you will be able to save by buying in bulk. i would suggest the church "front" the money, and then collect it from the participants. ie. its important for you not to be the money person as well as the supply person + teacher person + volunteer coordinator person + supervisor of children person.

 

look at the guidelines for childcare, and how many adults per person are required, and then make sure the number of volunteers meets that. decide what will happen in advance if enough folks don't volunteer. this allows you to easily separate out the infants and toddlers, as they require a 2/1 or 3/1 ratio of babies to caregivers. depending on the numbers, that might look like an adult in charge of the infants and toddlers who isn't you + a teen or two teens to help them, depending on numbers. then, you can decide how many extra hands you will need for the art portion. do you need an adult, or would it work with teens? could they get school service hours for helping you? i would work on a job description for the two or more teens you would like to have. (depending on where the bathroom is in your church, having a male and a female to take kids to the bathroom (and always with another person as well for safety issues) is good idea.

 

the more concise it is, with a summary at the end of the recommendations, the easier it is for me to read and deal with. you did say this is a smaller church, and i've only ever worked at really big churches, so my time was crunched all the time, but you know you've covered your bases when you can say things simply and clearly, kwim?

 

re salary: it isn't enough, but if you can look at it as a ministry you offer for which you get a token reimbursement, and if you aren't paying for supplies, then i think it sounds wonderful. i might suggest that you ask them to pay you for three hours each week (one hour lesson preparation + set up + clean up, and two hours of actual teaching time. this would mean you would need to be there at least 15 minutes early, and stay at least 15 minutes after, but you will need to do that anyway). you could ask for minimum wage for those hours, which would come to just over $20- week. that means that if this becomes an ongoing thing, and the church becomes more financially stable, they could up your hourly rate, but you will have established that running a program requires planning time and is different from babysitting. (pastors salaries, for example, include some sermon-writing time, not just sermon offering time).

 

what would be extra cool would be if some of their artwork could be reproduced and become bulletin covers, or be included in newsletters, or used to illustrate a hymn when projected in the sanctuary, or used as "get well" cards for seniors, or even just framed and displayed in the hallway for a week or two.... anything that links what you are doing with the greater life of the church.

 

this is exciting!!!

ann

[Hwin]

Is the church making money off of the FPU or just hosting it? If the church is making money and offering free childcare, then I think the least they can do it pay for the supplies. I realize they are a small church, but they certainly do not have to offer childcare; parents can always make their own arrangements.

[joannqn]

Thank you for all of the replies. You've confirmed some of my concerns. I have already mentioned the cost of supplies, but haven't gone beyond that because I don't know the costs yet. Plus anything I buy would last much longer than one session, so I'm not sure how to account for that. I would have the costs for supplies the first time, but a much lower cost the second, third, etc. times. I can also chose cheaper projects: projects that require printer paper and colored pencils/crayons versus projects that require watercolor paper, watercolors, paint brushes, paint pallets, and clean up supplies, though I tend to like the latter better.

 

I was also concerned about the perception, not so much of being paid, but being the one in charge. A long time ago, I used to be a "leader" but these days I prefer to be the person who helps on the spur of the moment. I don't even like being a scheduled volunteer. I've been trying to regain some of my former self.

 

About FPU itself. We are utilizing another church's building to provide the classes. The adults are in the sanctuary, and the kids are in the younger nursery. There are two rooms with a receiving area, changing table, and bathroom in the middle. The infants and toddlers go into one room; the older kids go into the other room (which is really two adjoining rooms). There is a table in the latter. The doors between the rooms are half doors, so I can see into the infants/toddlers from my place at the table. Because of this set up, I've already said I would have to have another adult for the infants at a minimum. Plus I can't hold babies and teach art at the same time.

 

The cost for parents to attend FPU is materials only. There is no upcharge for the class itself. Childcare has been provided completely free of charge. Even snacks for the kids has been provided until recently after the leader realized how much snacks were costing them. Neither the church nor the leader make any money.

 

Size these first two times have been smaller. This time through, there is a 4 month old, a three year old, and maybe 4-6 elementary aged kids. Some of the older kids this time aren't really there for childcare; they are the kids of the leader and wouldn't be there if his wife wasn't doing the childcare. I've also been bringing my 6 year old because his friend is there and he enjoys the projects too. The first time it was a bit larger with a couple more toddlers.

[songsparrow]

Plus anything I buy would last much longer than one session, so I'm not sure how to account for that. I would have the costs for supplies the first time, but a much lower cost the second, third, etc. times. I can also chose cheaper projects: projects that require printer paper and colored pencils/crayons versus projects that require watercolor paper, watercolors, paint brushes, paint pallets, and clean up supplies, though I tend to like the latter better.

 

 

The church should purchase the supplies, and any supplies that are left over should go into an art supplies cupboard and be available for future activities.

 

You could also ask parents for donations of supplies (from a specific list), to save on money.

 

In my experience, kids do not like basic coloring activities and it will not hold their interest. I would purchase supplies for more interesting projects, even if they are more expensive. Also, a lot of supplies can be from the recycling bin; some of the best projects I've done with kids have been practically free but have involved more interesting manipulation of materials than just coloring or painting (like mosaics with bits of tissue paper or construction paper; we did a tissue paper mosaic on soda bottles cut to look like fish that could then be hung in a window - that was a huge hit but cost next to nothing).

 

I was also concerned about the perception, not so much of being paid, but being the one in charge. A long time ago, I used to be a "leader" but these days I prefer to be the person who helps on the spur of the moment.

 

 

Then I would tell the pastor that you're willing to run the art activity, but you're not willing to be in charge of childcare. Another adult needs to be responsible for finding volunteers, making sure they show up, having a backup plan if the volunteers do not show, etc. Make it clear that if you show up and at least x number of volunteers are not there to handle the childcare, you will not stay to do the art project.

[sassenach]

Have you prayed about this? I have taken church positions that I wasn't called to, but thought I could handle and ended up completely miserable. I have also taken positions which I really, really didn't want, but knew God was asking me to and ended up pretty content.

 

However, since you're asking for advice, I don't see any red flags. I would ask each family for $5 in supply fees. I teach co-op art and I've gotten pretty far on just $5 a kid. I would commit to 1 session and assess afterwards. I'm a pastor's wife who runs kids ministry (that's the thing The Lord dragged me into kicking and screaming). I live and die by volunteers who are willing to step up, so I really feel for your pastor. That said, sometimes we do something for free when we really should ask people to commit with their money, too. Even if it's a small amount. Dave Ramsey charges for his time and materials, you know. I think parents should throw 5 or 10 into the pot. Or maybe you can make it so parents have to be the workers for the next round of classes.

 

Best wishes!