Smiles Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 First I want to say I have never been good at math so I would like something thats explains things very well or I might panic! We have been using SM EB and just about finished with it. My son does fine seems to like it but I worry about me being able to teach it. So what program do you think would be best? Tell me if I am being to vague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralloyd Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I was right where you are when I started hsing my oldest. I am now on on my third go around with MUS. I have learned so much from Mr. Demme. I am now more confident in my math skills because of MUS. Math used to scare me. Now I can't wait to go through algebra because I want to learn it lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 I was right where you are when I started hsing my oldest. I am now on on my third go around with MUS. I have learned so much from Mr. Demme. I am now more confident in my math skills because of MUS. Math used to scare me. Now I can't wait to go through algebra because I want to learn it lol! This makes me feel better! The only thing I am scared of is I have read that some people think MUS is behind or its hard to switch from it once your child has learned that way, is this true? My ds is 5 will be 6 in July and is having a hard time with addition, we are using SM EB but I am not wild about it do you think its just his age and it will come with time? Sorry I am full of questions but I will stop there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 We have loved the Miquon/ Singapore combo. I will say I was luke-warm (at best) about Earlybird. But would not judge the rest of Primary Mathematics by EB. EB was both "dumbed down" and not developmentally appropriate. A hard combo to achieve. Miquon on the other hand was very exciting, very heads on, inspiring, effective, developmentally appropriate, and a great lead-into Primary Mathematics. The Teachers resources in Miquon and the PM Standards Edition HIGs are very good. I'm guessing they would be more work for you than using MUS. One question to ask yourself is how motivated are you as a teacher to relearn math? If you've read Liping Ma are are super motivated Miquon, Singapore, and the outstanding (free) MEP materials might be a way to go. If you are not so motivated MUS DVDs will be easier. The thing about switching away from MUS is that this program follows its own hyper-master sequence. With new operations added slowly, and focusing more on one or two operations at a time. Miquon, in contrast, has lots of exposure early on to the inter-relatedness of math operations. So children see multiplication and fractions very early as "exposure" (and using manipulatives like C Rods so they "get it"). Different head-space, me thinks. I am not a MUS user. I think it would have been a poor fit for my son who picked things up fast and likes variety. But children are different. Try to pick a style you think will work for you. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful_Journey Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 We just switched to MUS this year since my youngest dd was just not "getting" math with our previous math program (I used MM and RS in the past). She has flourished with MUS, and I'm rather sorry now that I didn't start all of my kids in MUS. It does a great job of helping kids understand the "why" behind math in a very clear way. The scope and sequence is different than some other math programs, but I think it helps kids to master a concept before moving on. By the end of elementary, it will have covered all of the major concepts - just in a different order. They recently made some changes to the program though which will help to bring it in line with the core standards (mostly through the addition of some enhancement pages in the student book). This may help to alleviate the concerns of those who like MUS but want it to cover some concepts a bit earlier for reasons such as standardized testing. I think your ds would like the program - I know my kids really enjoy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 We have loved the Miquon/ Singapore combo. I will say I was luke-warm (at best) about Earlybird. But would not judge the rest of Primary Mathematics by EB. EB was both "dumbed down" and not developmentally appropriate. A hard combo to achieve. Miquon on the other hand was very exciting, very heads on, inspiring, effective, developmentally appropriate, and a great lead-into Primary Mathematics. The Teachers resources in Miquon and the PM Standards Edition HIGs are very good. I'm guessing they would be more work for you than using MUS. One question to ask yourself is how motivated are you as a teacher to relearn math? If you've read Liping Ma are are super motivated Miquon, Singapore, and the outstanding (free) MEP materials might be a way to go. If you are not so motivated MUS DVDs will be easier. The thing about switching away from MUS is that this program follows its own hyper-master sequence. With new operations added slowly, and focusing more on one or two operations at a time. Miquon, in contrast, has lots of exposure early on to the inter-relatedness of math operations. So children see multiplication and fractions very early as "exposure" (and using manipulatives like C Rods so they "get it"). Different head-space, me thinks. I am not a MUS user. I think it would have been a poor fit for my son who picked things up fast and likes variety. But children are different. Try to pick a style you think will work for you. Bill How did you use both? Did you do Miquon and then SM or both at the same time? I'm not afraid to learn math but I am afraid I won't understand! I know its just 1st grade but I really want to stick with one math program! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 We've used both MUS and Singapore. I'm sure you'll be fine with either! Singapore: The Singapore HIG are very helpful, but I needed to "study" them ahead and re-learn the math. It isn't too difficult since it's elementary math and I finally understand it for the first time! The Liping Ma book is very helpful to read before you begin...It helped me understand the "why" of the method. I think you need to be more motivated to use this program. I needed to look ahead at the lesson, make sure I understood it, and gather any manipulatives that were needed. I think the work is paid off because it gets them to really "think" about how to solve a problem...not just plug in numbers. My older DC can do quite a bit of math in their heads, and I'm sure much of that is due to their SM methods. MUS: Singapore was just not working for my oldest DD. I really tried, but finally switched to MUS this year. The videos are very easy to follow and we watch them together...I have zero prep. Technically, I'm supposed to watch the video and teach them later on, but they really enjoy the videos and understand it immediately. So far, I've yet to "teach" a single lesson (I have had to teach some of the review that they'd forgotten). With 4 DC, this is a huge time-saver for me. The workbook set-up is a great fit for my DC. They are motivated to do well so they can skip some of the pages. I do wonder if it is too "easy" because she struggled so much with Singapore and does so well with MUS. However, at this point, I'm just happy that she's learning her multiplication facts. With both methods, I think they learn how the math works...not just how to plug in numbers. I would say Singapore is more rigorous, but we're very happy with MUS as well. For us, MUS has been more successful since it's less stressful (not a single math tear this year) and no prep time is needed. Either option will be doable for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelBee Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 We use all three. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I have used all three programs. What's best depends on your kids. For my oldest, MUS was a flaming disaster. She moved through the program quite easily by memorizing everything. When she got to a point where she had to apply what she hadn't actually learned (start of 2nd grade), she did not handle it well. She felt like she was stupid and decided that she hated math. I spent a few months searching for what to use instead and found Miquon. Miquon brought back her enjoyment of math. She had many eureka moments with Miquon because you can't rote memorize your way through it. You have to figure out the patterns. She did all of Miquon and then started Singapore Math with level 3A and continued on through 6B. After that she did Jacobs Algebra, Jacobs Geometry, Kinetic Books Algebra II, Larson's Precalculus, and Lial's Trigonometry. My middle dd never did MUS. She did all of Miquon and then did Singapore Math from 3A-6B. After that she did Kinetic Books Algebra I, Jacobs Geometry, Kinetic Books algebra II, Lial's Precalculus, and now Thinkwell Calculus. My youngest couldn't handle Miquon at all. I think the approach was fine. The colored ink was her issue (lots of vision issues). She did Singapore 1A-3A and then hit a brick wall. She did Moving with Math level B and then asked to go back to Singapore. She did Singapore 4A-5A and hit another brick wall. She did Key to Fractions, Decimals, and Percents. We tried a bunch of different things. She did MUS Prealgebra, which really didn't go well at all, but MUS Algebra I worked fairly well even though it was a struggle. She is working MUS geometry now. I intend to keep her in MUS for the rest of her math. I really don't like MUS, but I have to use a program that fits where my kid actually is. She can't handle the programs that my other kids used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 How did you use both? Did you do Miquon and then SM or both at the same time? I'm not afraid to learn math but I am afraid I won't understand! I know its just 1st grade but I really want to stick with one math program! Thanks We bounced between them. Miquon is an unusual program that really encourages a sort of improvisation. We generally approached new topic in Miquon first. They always involve the use of hands-on learning (with things like Cuisenaire Rods) which help "turn on the lights." I used it to build autonomy (as children are give the tools to problem solve themselves) and competence (as they get good at "seeing" the combinations of values a number could be slip into as a preliminary step towards re-grouping. And they learn the skills through "play." When the skills gurgle and gel, then we'd pick up on the same topic in PM, which really does a great job systematically building methods and stratagies. Together they are very strong. Additionally, Miquon's teachers materials enamble parent/teachers to explicitly teach the properties of mathematics from the earliest part of the journey, in ways children understand. So, when a child "discovers" that lining up a C Rod with a value of 4 end-to-end with a C Rod that has a value of 5 is the same as a 5 Rod with a 4 Rod, you can shout in celebration about how they have discovered the Commutitive Law!!! In contrast, Singapore is weakish in explicitly teaching math axioms, instead teaching them implicitly in early years and waiting (too long IMO) to put a label on the properties. But together there is synergy. I will not try to kid you that it is not more work for the parent. Not so much for the kids. If they (and parent) "get Miquon" (and not everyone does) it is a pretty fun way to learn, an one that children enjoy. But the parent/teacher has to study and be motivated. It is not for the lazy. Or for those who just want to pass on the dreadful methods with which they were taught math. If you have not read Liping Ma's book, I would do so. If you feel inspired with a burning passion to have the sort of math education for your child outlined there, then Miquon, Singapore, and MEP are natural programs to draw upon. If you think, "good grief" this sounds like a ridiculous amount of work, it might not be for you. Know thyself. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Sorry it took me so long to get back to this post. If I buy Miquon and Singapore what all would I purchase with each for 1st grade? With miquon I have read to get the lab book, and with singapore I have read about different versions and is there anything else to get besides c-rods? Also what kind of c-rods to get, I have a small plastic set but I noticed MUS has different ones? Sorry for my ignorance, I just want to make sure I get the correct things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralloyd Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 This makes me feel better! The only thing I am scared of is I have read that some people think MUS is behind or its hard to switch from it once your child has learned that way, is this true? My ds is 5 will be 6 in July and is having a hard time with addition, we are using SM EB but I am not wild about it do you think its just his age and it will come with time? Sorry I am full of questions but I will stop there! Sorry I am just getting back to you! I don't think MUS is "behind" at all; different sequence, yes, but not behind. For example when my oldest was in Gamma (3rd grade), she was doing multiple-digit multiplication. Her peers were no where near her ability in multiplication, they were just learning their multiplication tables. Just because she had not done division yet, does not constitute behind. My goal isn't that my kid is doing what every other kid is doing. I want them to really understand what they are doing before moving on. I was a kid that would have benefited from being able to focus on one thing till I got it! :blush: It is harder to switch to a different program from MUS. However, I think Alpha is the perfect program to start if you want to give it a try. I say this because Alpha is single-digit addition and subtraction. Most 1st graders are doing the same thing. Their is very little difference at that grade level. I have had my oldest recently start other math programs on thursdays, because we are done with or MUS lesson by then. She hasn't shown signs of not understanding different ways. It could be your son's age or it cold be the way it is presented. Make sure he is doing lots of hand-on addition with beans, blocks, MUS blocks, c-rods, etc...So that he can begin to "see" the numbers in his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Thanks for all the input, very thankful for this board! I think I have decided Miquon/Singapore but I am still a little unsure about what to order with miquon and singapore, can anyone lead me in the right direction? I have heard about a lab book with miquon and I have heard of several different things with singapore. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeaganS Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 You'd get the orange and red lab pages first, and at the very least the lab annotations, but the first grade diary is highly recommended for Miquon as well. Oh, and a set of cuisenaire rods (go for at least the 155 piece set). I'm not sure about Singapore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five More Minutes Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 You'd get the orange and red lab pages first, and at the very least the lab annotations, but the first grade diary is highly recommended for Miquon as well. Oh, and a set of cuisenaire rods (go for at least the 155 piece set). I'm not sure about Singapore. I agree. For Singapore, I recommend going with the Standards Edition, because the Home Instructor's Guide (HIG) is superior. For each semester, the core books to get are the HIG, textbook, and workbook. After you're comfortable with these, you may want to add in some of the other Singapore goodies, like the Challenging Word Problems, but those can definitely wait until after 1A or even 1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 I agree. For Singapore, I recommend going with the Standards Edition, because the Home Instructor's Guide (HIG) is superior. For each semester, the core books to get are the HIG, textbook, and workbook. After you're comfortable with these, you may want to add in some of the other Singapore goodies, like the Challenging Word Problems, but those can definitely wait until after 1A or even 1B. So is primary mathematics USA edition right? The one you get through Sonlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Also is the intensive practice something I need or can it wait? Sorry I may have more to ask! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 So is primary mathematics USA edition right? The one you get through Sonlight. No. The Standards Edition of Primary Mathematics is newer. It is what I'd recommend as well. There is an outstanding component/supplement of the US Edition series called "Intensive Practice" that we use with the Standards Edition "core." definitely recommend the IP books. For MIquon get (and read) the 3 Teachers books. Notes to Teachers and First Grade Diary can be read quickly, and Lab Annotations can be studied over time. Parent-teacher math re-education is a vital part of Miquon and the resources are great. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Also is the intensive practice something I need or can it wait? Sorry I may have more to ask! The material is harder that that in the "core" Textbook and Workbook. Some people use the IPs "on level," and others use them "behind" in varying degrees to meet the ability of the student. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 The material is harder that that in the "core" Textbook and Workbook. Some people use the IPs "on level," and others use them "behind" in varying degrees to meet the ability of the student. Bill Where do you buy Singapore, from singapore, reading rainbow or where would be the best place. Sorry I keep coming back I'm just worried about getting the right thing. Thank you all, I am very greatful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five More Minutes Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Where do you buy Singapore, from singapore, reading rainbow or where would be the best place. Sorry I keep coming back I'm just worried about getting the right thing. Thank you all, I am very greatful. Assuming you're in the States, Rainbow Resource has what you're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Where do you buy Singapore, from singapore, reading rainbow or where would be the best place. Sorry I keep coming back I'm just worried about getting the right thing. Thank you all, I am very greatful. Personally I purchase the Primary Mathematics materials from Singaporemath[dot]com, in part because they run a support forum and I like supporting them as a publisher. But, if memory serves, Rainbow Resources carries all the basic PM materials. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Personally I purchase the Primary Mathematics materials from Singaporemath[dot]com, in part because they run a support forum and I like supporting them as a publisher. But, if memory serves, Rainbow Resources carries all the basic PM materials. Bill Thank you for being so kind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Assuming you're in the States, Rainbow Resource has what you're looking for. Thank you for the link I like those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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