How would you interest a kid in some self-guided learning?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'd really like for my girls to do some self-guided learning. They really have no interest in researching or learning about anything in particular on their own, and if one asks me a question and I say something like, "Hmmm, that might be something interest to look up..." they balk immediately. I'd really like to see them take some initiative--I'd even settle for them showing some mild interest at this point--but I'm not sure how to accomplish it without it turning into more "assigned" work.

 

Any ideas? Have you managed to nudge your kids toward some interest-led learning?

[dbmamaz]

How old are they? I've been working w mine for a while . . like years . . and its just starting to get there. Its easier with a hand-held. If my teen asks me a question, I say, Idk, look it up and tell me, do you have your ipod touch? With the younger one, on occasion now, if he asks me a question and I say, lets look it up, he'll say ok. But i have to catch them in the moment and it seems to be a slow thing to learn for them.

 

some kids are more internally driven and thats ok - encourage independence but let your kids find it at their own pace. jmo

[Ellie]

Unschooling. :-)

[briansmama]

How old are your dc? Have they been to school before? I ask because I've heard time and again that it takes time to go from being a passive learner to becoming more motivated to seek info for learning's sake.

 

Another thought, and one that works well for us, is to set a specific time for lessons. If they finish their work earlier, great, but they are still in the lessons mode until that block of time is over. So, my ds will finish his science notebooking and reading but we still have more time, so he will begin flipping through the encyclopedia of animals we have out and read more about something he's been interested in. Often this will lead to asking if he can look up even more, etc.

 

This happens with a lot of areas of study (geography, history, and science, mainly). Now, he will not take initiative and begin writing a summary of what he's learning or check the library for books on the topic, but he will go down so many rabbit holes that I often need to reel him back in.

[Beth S]

One thing that can help is to let them select a topic for the essay to be written, or for a unit study for you all to study together.

[Corraleno]

it takes time to go from being a passive learner to becoming more motivated to seek info for learning's sake.

 

:iagree:

 

If kids associate "school" with boring work that has to get done in order to get to the fun parts of the day, then they'll be understandably reluctant to take on any extra work that seems even remotely "schooly." Two things you can do to help nudge your kids in that direction are:

 

(1) Do the research with them, rather than sending them off to look things up on their own. If they ask a question you don't know the answer to (and sometimes even if you do know the answer ;) ), say "What a great question, let's look that up..." and then go to the computer or bookshelves and look for the answer with them. Narrate the process: "let's see, maybe this book (or website) on _______ would have the information we want... oh this is interesting!" Read an excerpt, ask some relevant questions to generate some discussion and more questions. Grab another book or follow a link to another website, etc. Show your own interest and enthusiasm.

 

(2) Resist the urge to turn their interests into something schooly!!! Don't say "Oh, you're interested in turtles? I'm sure I can find a unit study for that!" Don't make them write reports or narrations, or require "output" when they are following interests and rabbit trails. The point (for now) is to replace the idea that "learning = school and school = boring," with "learning for it's own sake is really interesting and rewarding."

 

Once they've really internalized that, then they'll start taking ownership of their own education because they want to learn, not because they're being made to learn. But that's not an overnight process.

 

Jackie

[regentrude]

My kids have always been interested in SOMEthing. We parents are interested in things. We do things together: go to museums, nature centers, state parks, theatre. We read books. We talk about the stuff we read, see, think, do. Kids ask questions.

 

Model curiosity. Involve them in what YOU find fascinating about the world. Give them plenty of free time they can fill with their own interests, and take it from there. Show an interest in what they have been doing. Give them access to the tools to find things out, i.e. make sure they have good books, encyclopedias, learn to research online. When they express interest in something, facilitate further exploration by supplying them with materials or books or opportunities - so instead of YOU suggesting what they should be interested in, observe and see where they are interested in learning more.

 

Just do not make everything fell like "school".

[Arcadia]

(2) Resist the urge to turn their interests into something schooly!!! Don't say "Oh, you're interested in turtles? I'm sure I can find a unit study for that!" Don't make them write reports or narrations, or require "output" when they are following interests and rabbit rabbit trails. The point (for now) is to replace the idea that "learning = school and school = boring," with "learning for it's own sake is really interesting and rewarding."

 

 

That is what works for my boys. For example, my older did a school art lesson last week on Japanese block prints. He told me he wanted to do one as in carve a pattern on a wood block. We ended up in Michaels for wood carving tools, wood blocks and sandpaper. They came home and have a go at it.

In our house, it means our living room looks like a art workshop and my kitchen doubles up as a science lab. It also means being prepared to haul library books that they pick out home.

 

ETA:

A funny example. Older is reading a book on skunk for leisure that he picked out from the library. The book mentioned something about female flowers. So now he is off to investigate which plants have male and female flowers.

[Ellie]

 

 

Resist the urge to turn their interests into something schooly!!! Don't say "Oh, you're interested in turtles? I'm sure I can find a unit study for that!" Don't make them write reports or narrations, or require "output" when they are following interests and rabbit trails. The point (for now) is to replace the idea that "learning = school and school = boring," with "learning for it's own sake is really interesting and rewarding."

 

Once they've really internalized that, then they'll start taking ownership of their own education because they want to learn, not because they're being made to learn. But that's not an overnight process.

 

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[JessReplanted]

I have always used the library for interest-led learning. I'd point them towards the non-fiction section and strongly suggest they find 4 or 5 books that they would like to read.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

(1) Do the research with them, rather than sending them off to look things up on their own. If they ask a question you don't know the answer to (and sometimes even if you do know the answer ;) ), say "What a great question, let's look that up..." and then go to the computer or bookshelves and look for the answer with them.

 

(2) Resist the urge to turn their interests into something schooly!!! Don't say "Oh, you're interested in turtles? I'm sure I can find a unit study for that!" Don't make them write reports or narrations, or require "output" when they are following interests and rabbit trails. The point (for now) is to replace the idea that "learning = school and school = boring," with "learning for it's own sake is really interesting and rewarding."

 

My kids have always been interested in SOMEthing. We parents are interested in things. We do things together: go to museums, nature centers, state parks, theatre. We read books. We talk about the stuff we read, see, think, do. Kids ask questions.

 

Model curiosity. Involve them in what YOU find fascinating about the world. Give them plenty of free time they can fill with their own interests, and take it from there. Show an interest in what they have been doing. Give them access to the tools to find things out, i.e. make sure they have good books, encyclopedias, learn to research online. When they express interest in something, facilitate further exploration by supplying them with materials or books or opportunities - so instead of YOU suggesting what they should be interested in, observe and see where they are interested in learning more.

 

Just do not make everything fell like "school".

That is what works for my boys. For example, my older did a school art lesson last week on Japanese block prints. He told me he wanted to do one as in carve a pattern on a wood block. We ended up in Michaels for wood carving tools, wood blocks and sandpaper. They came home and have a go at it.

In our house, it means our living room looks like a art workshop and my kitchen doubles up as a science lab. It also means being prepared to haul library books that they pick out home.

 

ETA:

A funny example. Older is reading a book on skunk for leisure that he picked out from the library. The book mentioned something about female flowers. So now he is off to investigate which plants have male and female flowers.

I have always used the library for interest-led learning. I'd point them towards the non-fiction section and strongly suggest they find 4 or 5 books that they would like to read.

 

See, everything you ladies have mentioned are things I feel like I already do! I'm constantly reading nonfiction, and when DD10 has asked me why I do, I answer her honestly. I'm always looking things up for myself and DH, our bookshelves are literally stuffed full of nonfiction (and fiction) books on loads of topics and beautiful encyclopedias and reference books, they have their own iPads, so they have access to Google, I've tried researching with them (they drag and moan and complain--they see having me involved as "doing school") and telling them to go ahead and find the answers on their own (they think that sounds like a good idea, then they never do), I've never required any kind of output from them with regard to topics they're interested in, etc. Honestly, it drives me crazy! I think it's mainly because of my DD10, who is a lot like one of those unmotivated kids being discussed in another thread--I suspect DD7 has picked up the tone from her.

 

I talked to them yesterday after I posted. I asked them, if I told them they had to pick a topic, any topic (but not related to TV shows or iPad apps) to learn more about on their own, what might they pick? They both had immediate answers: Vikings and rabbits (well, initially, DD7 said, "Pink!" then rabbits). So I told them that we're going to do a little experiment in self-education. I'll help them spend the next two weeks learning about these topics they're so interested in. They can just read about them, I can help them find crafts or projects to do, they can write up some info for me, or not, whatever they want. But that I wanted them to practice delving into these interesting subjects a bit. They were both excited by the idea :confused1: What I don't understand is how one can think something like, "Hmm, Vikings are so interesting!" without desiring to learn more about them. Don't most kids have that sort of curiosity?

 

Typing this all out made me think of another, related question if anyone's still reading. The kids will take books that interest them out of the library. Then the books will sit, unread, in their rooms or the library pile for weeks until they have to go back. This happens ALL the time. Should I insist that they read these books, or should I just let them go? It's like, they have a spark of interest, but those sparks never actually get fanned into flames. I mean, I can see that the majority of spark might never get fanned into flames, but for it to never happen? It seems so odd to me.

 

Thanks for helping me work through this. I'm the kind of person who uses her phone as a phone 20% of the time and a research tool the other 80% because I can't stand to not have the information once I'm thinking about it, so it's hard for me to see my kids so apathetic about this.

[Lily_Grace]

I could have written your post a few years ago. DS is very passive, and often waits to be told EVERYTHING. He turned 13 and it was like a lightbulb went on. His brain finally caught up, and the *facts* he had spent years learning he could suddenly apply. He happily does research now because it's answering questions. Not things like "where does a turtle live?" He never cared. My child, who gave me several years of banging my head against the wall in history class has taken it upon himself to connect two thoughts - Missouri: slave state, and Samuel Clemens: Missouri resident, and try to answer how living in a slave state shaped Mark Twain's writings.

 

Yeah.

 

He just needed to be able to research something that wasn't cut and dry. He needed to be able to convince himself that he's right or wrong and nobody can make it black and white. It wasn't an overnight process. We started with studies like Mysteries In History at about age 10 and moved on to Jackdaws by age 12 and now, now he's interested in things. Now he's becoming literate and broadening his horizons.

 

As an unschooler, he would have been dismal for many, many years. LOL But he's finding his own finally. I think giving it time really helped.

[Arcadia]

The kids will take books that interest them out of the library. Then the books will sit, unread, in their rooms or the library pile for weeks until they have to go back. This happens ALL the time. Should I insist that they read these books, or should I just let them go?

 

Maybe it is just information overload. My kids like to borrow a boatload out of the library too. When they do their daily reading time, I just remind them that they borrowed books from the library and to read those first. Those that they found to be boring after borrowing goes to the return pile.

[songsparrow]

What are they doing with their free time? I find that to encourage child-led projects in my children, they need to have free time that is screen-free. If screens are an option, they will default to them. If I take screens out of the picture, they suddenly get creative and develop all sorts of projects independently.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I could have written your post a few years ago. DS is very passive, and often waits to be told EVERYTHING.

 

Passive! Yes, that's the word, not unmotivated. She is VERY passive, and also waits to be told everything. She doesn't seem to be able to think outside the box at all. If the information isn't right in front of her, it's like it doesn't exist. Hmmm...what an interesting connection that I never made. This is not the mindset I want her to have! Interestingly, I've been thinking a lot lately about how I'm sick of just handing her information and instructions all the time and how she needs to start working to find her own solutions more. Wow, I think you just uncovered a key there, Lily-Grace!

 

DD7, on the other hand, is my go getter. She's the "Well, you never told me I couldn't!" kid. She's been making herself breakfast and lunch most days for two years now because she's too impatient to wait for me to get around to it.

 

Maybe it is just information overload. My kids like to borrow a boatload out of the library too. When they do their daily reading time, I just remind them that they borrowed books from the library and to read those first. Those that they found to be boring after borrowing goes to the return pile.

 

Also a very good point, thank you. It seems very likely.

 

What are they doing with their free time? I find that to encourage child-led projects in my children, they need to have free time that is screen-free. If screens are an option, they will default to them. If I take screens out of the picture, they suddenly get creative and develop all sorts of projects independently.

 

And yes, this is another key. I've drastically reduced the amount of screen time that happens around here, but it does seem to still be in the back of their minds all day. They've replaced that time with creative play, which I'm happy to see. Now maybe I can start nudging us all over into using a little of that time for some interest-driven intellectual pursuits as well.

[albeto]

 

I talked to them yesterday after I posted. I asked them, if I told them they had to pick a topic, any topic (but not related to TV shows or iPad apps)

 

 

Why not? If that's what sparks their interests, let them at it!

 

I suspect your goal is to help them gain the skill of figuring out what to do when no one tells them what to do, right? So in the future, when an assignment is presented, or a problem revealed, they'll know how to tackle it independently. Is this close? If that's the case, let them dig into whatever it is they like, even if it seems to you to be non educational. It's the process you're trying to give them exposure to here, not the info. Anyone can find info in a book or online. Without you lifting a finger for the next five years for any academic purpose whatsoever, I guarantee your kids will know how to do that (and more). So at this age, I wouldn't sweat the stuff they're learning. Instead, ask them questions about what it is they do like. What is it about the tv show or ipad app they like? What does it make them think about? In what way does it spark their interests? Encourage them to become the experts. Listen to what they teach you. Find out what it is about this thing they find valuable. As they learn that you are genuinely interested in what they have to teach you, they'll want to learn more. It's human nature, it can't be helped. ;-)

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

 

Why not? If that's what sparks their interests, let them at it!

 

I suspect your goal is to help them gain the skill of figuring out what to do when no one tells them what to do, right? So in the future, when an assignment is presented, or a problem revealed, they'll know how to tackle it independently. Is this close? If that's the case, let them dig into whatever it is they like, even if it seems to you to be non educational. It's the process you're trying to give them exposure to here, not the info. Anyone can find info in a book or online. Without you lifting a finger for the next five years for any academic purpose whatsoever, I guarantee your kids will know how to do that (and more). So at this age, I wouldn't sweat the stuff they're learning. Instead, ask them questions about what it is they do like. What is it about the tv show or ipad app they like? What does it make them think about? In what way does it spark their interests? Encourage them to become the experts. Listen to what they teach you. Find out what it is about this thing they find valuable. As they learn that you are genuinely interested in what they have to teach you, they'll want to learn more. It's human nature, it can't be helped. ;-)

 

I hear what you're saying, but screens have posed a problem here in the past (and still do sometimes). If I let them near a screen, it derails the whole day, both attitude-wise and schedule-wise. I'm trying to get across to them that the world can be interesting even without your iPad in your hands.

[albeto]

 

I hear what you're saying, but screens have posed a problem here in the past (and still do sometimes). If I let them near a screen, it derails the whole day, both attitude-wise and schedule-wise. I'm trying to get across to them that the world can be interesting even without your iPad in your hands.

 

He's a teen now, which means in a few short years no one is going to stand over his shoulder and nag him to do something he doesn't want to do (ie, put down the ipad, and work on the research paper). Find out from him what he wants, what his long-term goals are. How can you help him achieve that? Ultimately, you probably want to share with him that in order to do what he really wants, he's going to have to self-regulate other stuff he also wants. Then help him self-regulate, even if it isn't how you would choose it. Help him find his own plan that works for him.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

 

He's a teen now, which means in a few short years no one is going to stand over his shoulder and nag him to do something he doesn't want to do (ie, put down the ipad, and work on the research paper). Find out from him what he wants, what his long-term goals are. How can you help him achieve that? Ultimately, you probably want to share with him that in order to do what he really wants, he's going to have to self-regulate other stuff he also wants. Then help him self-regulate, even if it isn't how you would choose it. Help him find his own plan that works for him.

 

 

Who are we talking about here? I have 10- and 7-year-old girls.

 

And again, while I agree with you for the most part, in our house, access to screens is a recipe for disaster. My first goal is to fully break that addiction so we can move on. I have tried to help them self-regulate. They simply do not. They never have. We live in a house full of toys and books and educational materials, with a nice big yard. We make weekly library trips and take field trips to interesting places. We travel and have close relationships with our families. Still, the first question I answer every morning is, "Can I use my iPad?" Even when that answer has been "No" for months. Unless I put strict regulations on screen use here, their whole day is focused on screens: "How can I get to them? How many times do I have to ask? Can I just have five minutes? Two minutes? If I finish my schoolwork? Before I start my schoolwork? OK, if I can't use my iPad until after 4 p.m., let me talk about what games I plan to play when I get access. Then I will talk about how miserable I'm going to be until 4 p.m."

 

This is how our lives were until I cut access down to the bare bones. They're finally getting to a place where they can see that the rest of the world is interesting again, and they can actually find other things that can fill their time in an enjoyable way. This is my starting point. So allowing iPad- or TV-related topics to creep into our self-education isn't going to happen for now. Maybe later, I don't know. If I could throw away the TV and sell off the iPads, I would.

 

I'll tackle self-regulation another day. Today, I'm more worried about helping them learn how to use their brains to explore the other 99.8% of the world, you know?

[Critterfixer]

Sometimes I think when a child has to step outside their comfort zone they do need direction, purpose and goals presented in a clear way with plenty of follow up. It's been that way for my boys with fiction. They would happily take home every non-fiction book on a subject of interest, but present them with a fiction book on similar material and they will shun it like a plate of unsalted, overcooked green beans. I've had to create a prize system for books that we read, which is probably more school-like than you want.

I think your plan is sound, but you will need to do some sort of method to ensure they are reading the material they pick out. Perhaps you could pre-read the resources to make sure they are quality, and then open discussion of the topics at dinner. My boys may just be show-offs, but the ability to trot out their vast knowledge of a topic in conversation seems to really give them a lift. I'm actually thinking about doing something like this for summer reading, less writing intensive and more question/answer/discussion format. Sort of like a book-club.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Have you tried leaving the library books on the couch or kitchen table? For my son, it's often "out of sight, out of mind." If I leave some on the floor outside his room, he often reads them in the morning before I get up.

[albeto]

 

Who are we talking about here?

 

Your 10- and 7-year-old girls.

 

I'll tackle self-regulation another day. Today, I'm more worried about helping them learn how to use their brains to explore the other 99.8% of the world, you know?

 

Yes, I know.

 

Just throwing out another opinion for consideration. Some of us have kids who were also "addicted" to screens, only to find out, those screens are not really an addiction in any way. They're tools to be used when helpful, to be set aside when not. That's all.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Your 10- and 7-year-old girls.

 

 

 

Yes, I know.

 

Just throwing out another opinion for consideration. Some of us have kids who were also "addicted" to screens, only to find out, those screens are not really an addiction in any way. They're tools to be used when helpful, to be set aside when not. That's all.

 

I'm sorry, I'm confused. You referred in your previous post to "he" and being a teen, but I have young girls. I'm not sure where to go with this?

 

So (and this is getting more off-topic than I really wanted, but I'm interested in the perspective), if you once believed your kids were "addicted" to screens, what caused you to think that? What did you do about it? And what then led you to realize that what you thought was an addiction was really not? At this point, I consider an addiction to screens to be something that crowds out the desire for other healthy mental and physical activities for children and that causes them to prefer using a screen-based device over anything else (which is what it was here--I couldn't even get the kids to go outside on beautiful days).

 

What changed your kids' attitude toward the thing they were "addicted" to that made you realize it wasn't an addiction? Did they gradually slow their use on their own? Something else?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Sometimes I think when a child has to step outside their comfort zone they do need direction, purpose and goals presented in a clear way with plenty of follow up. It's been that way for my boys with fiction. They would happily take home every non-fiction book on a subject of interest, but present them with a fiction book on similar material and they will shun it like a plate of unsalted, overcooked green beans. I've had to create a prize system for books that we read, which is probably more school-like than you want.

I think your plan is sound, but you will need to do some sort of method to ensure they are reading the material they pick out. Perhaps you could pre-read the resources to make sure they are quality, and then open discussion of the topics at dinner. My boys may just be show-offs, but the ability to trot out their vast knowledge of a topic in conversation seems to really give them a lift. I'm actually thinking about doing something like this for summer reading, less writing intensive and more question/answer/discussion format. Sort of like a book-club.

 

 

Thanks, I think you're probably right. I can see this even when I think of myself stepping outside my comfort zone. I don't mind schooly guidelines, but that seems to discourage them more, so I have to find a balance.

 

Have you tried leaving the library books on the couch or kitchen table? For my son, it's often "out of sight, out of mind." If I leave some on the floor outside his room, he often reads them in the morning before I get up.

 

 

We have two book baskets that live in middle of the living room, one with spines facing out and one with covers facing forward. I think the only way I could make them more visible would be to spread them across the living room floor. When I have them pick related reading books for history, they'll pick several from the stack I lay out, then take them to their rooms and promptly forget about them *sigh* Maybe I need to be more on top of this? I was really trying not to be the heavy, since I wanted them to read based on their interests, but maybe I need to?

 

Come to think of it, I had to require DD10 to pick out poetry books when we went to the library, and then require her to read them. She swore she hated poetry, until after the 2nd or 3rd book. Then she loved it and took them out voluntarily whenever we went to the library. Hmmm...

[regentrude]

The kids will take books that interest them out of the library. Then the books will sit, unread, in their rooms or the library pile for weeks until they have to go back. This happens ALL the time. Should I insist that they read these books, or should I just let them go? It's like, they have a spark of interest, but those sparks never actually get fanned into flames. I mean, I can see that the majority of spark might never get fanned into flames, but for it to never happen? It seems so odd to me.

 

 

I would require a daily amount of reading time in previously unread books, but I would not mandate that they have to read all their library books.

We have often returned books unread to the library- even books we renewed three times because we were sure that they would get read.

[Critterfixer]

Come to think of it, I had to require DD10 to pick out poetry books when we went to the library, and then require her to read them. She swore she hated poetry, until after the 2nd or 3rd book. Then she loved it and took them out voluntarily whenever we went to the library. Hmmm...

 

I swear, it's like green beans. You think they are all canned, olive in color and repugnant in taste until you learn they don't all come from a can. You just have to try them, and try them again, and try them with butter and cilantro...

 

I do think you have to be on top of the reading. You don't want to nag (Have you read your book today?) which just makes it feel like a chore. And I don't think you would have to require narrations or anything like that. But I think you do have to engage the child in conversation to show that you feel the information is worth the effort to learn if it isn't something they would gobble up on their own. I'd call that coaxing the fire along.

[albeto]

What changed your kids' attitude toward the thing they were "addicted" to that made you realize it wasn't an addiction? Did they gradually slow their use on their own? Something else?

 

 

I stopped micromanaging their time. Screens were no longer the forbidden fruit, but one of many fantastic opportunities to explore as the desire, need, and opportunities arose.