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Kinsa

UPDATE: I want to meet a gay person.

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He likely heard it from other kids. He could have heard it in a movie. Heck, he could have heard it on the news when they were talking about conservative Christians. My prejudice (everyone has a prejudice of some sort) are conservative Christians because I get the impression that many of them are bigots. I'm sure I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Sorry if that ruffles a few feathers by me saying that.

 

 

Right. So, I would find out which kids said these things & would re-evaluate whether or not my kids would keep them company. If I heard it in a movie with my kids we would discuss ASAP so they would know that yes, people say it but it isn't OK. I guess with teens you're more likely to not know if they heard it in a movie. I guess discuss ASAP as well & maybe be more vigilant about researching movies before they watch or be more prepared for discussion after informing myself.

 

I am a conservative Christian. I'm not a bigot. I don't personally know any. I know bigoted conservative Christians exist, though. The few bigots I've know haven't been any particular religious flavor. Oh, on further thought, I do know some conservative Christian bigots - of the prior generation.

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I think others have mentioned--but you might actually know gay people. I've found that "they're everywhere"! :)

When I was a conservative Evangelical in high school (a Very Small high school) there were rumors about students being gay. I never really thought much about it because I thought it was just people gossiping and being cruel.

 

Yanno what? I think every single student that I heard that rumor about turned out to be gay :) (I know this because, coming from a SMALL high school, I'm FB friends with most of them) :) Most of them are in long-term relationships by this point. Over a decade for most of them, except for one woman who recently got her Ph.D. and married her girlfriend in NY a couple of years ago.

 

When I got to college and had a few classes with gay people, I realized that my conservative Christian boyfriend from high school was probably gay.

 

Stereotype? Maybe, but I was right.

 

I worried a long time about him because he went to a very conservative Christian private college. We finally got back in touch, and he was happily partnered with another man (they've been together 14 years now). They met when x-boyfriend was playing piano and his partner was singing in the choir at their church.

 

The thing is, the more gay people you meet, and the wider your schema grows, you'll probably be able to identify people right now you've know (and know) who are gay or closer to that end of the sexual spectrum than you've realized in the past.

 

Also, going to a Pride Parade might not be the best first experience you realize you're having with gay people :) That can be a time to let a freak flag fly, but even a lot of my gay friends are a little hesitant about participating in the parades.

 

Anyway, yay for being willing to see beyond your own experience.

 

You may also find that the gay people you know just keep it to themselves because they know you're anti-homosexuality. (Sorry, but conservative Christianity is anti-homosexuality, even if it sounds ugly. Even loving relationships are condemned according to that faith system, and no one wants to set themselves up for that and expose their family relationships to someone's criticism and disgust.) But if you show yourself to be open and thoughtful, people may be more likely to be honest with you, even if you do hold to that system.

 

Good luck!

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OP, I definitely think you need to sit down and have a talk with all your kids. Take this as an opportunity to learn about other faiths and groups of people. As a conservative Christian, I think the overall message you need to impress on your children is loving others. We don't call others names (hateful or not) when we love them. If Jesus was walking around here now I think He would hang out with many LGBT people. In the Gospels He hung out with people that the religious folk treated as outcasts.

 

I wouldn't go out in search of any group. I would first start learning about people different from yourself and broaden your activities so that when your child does meet someone different the person is treated with kindness.

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But a black gay person??? C' mon. Everyone knows those are really just mythical creatures that don't really exist. ;)

 

 

Well, I'm just a bit north of you. You can come have a ride on my Unicorn! ;-). Oh, and my partner is Hispanic. But we're not very exciting. Just regular people.

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I don't have much to add, you've gotten great advice. I just wanted to mention the mayor of Houston, Annise Parker, is gay. Maybe he could do a civics report on some Texas politicians and include her.

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I just want to thank everyone for being so kind to me about this. I am looking at all the links, and I am carefully reading everything you've said.

 

And clarkd, no, there are other lesbians on this board. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure at least one of them is black... and lives in Texas, if I'm not mistaken!

 

 

Yes, I think her son is in college now though. I haven't seen her post for a while.

 

I think having discussions with your son would be more valuable than seeking out gay people. The fact that he has been seeing the dentist for 10 years, and is presumably comfortable with him, is a great starting point.

 

It is puzzling how kids come up with some things. When one of my dds was much younger, she asked if all black people were slaves. :ohmy: When I brought up the fact that the black people we knew had regular jobs, she was shocked we knew black people. :ohmy: She had never noticed that some of the kids she played with regularly were "black". :rolleyes: She just knew them by name. :lol:

 

I'm sorry your son shocked you with such an announcement, but I'm sure he is still young enough you can talk about it and get to the root of his feelings. Knowing that your dentist is gay prevents your son from being able to stereotype an entire group of people without faces. He will realize there is at least one gay person he does not hate. Good luck with the talk. :grouphug:

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That's kinda the point. I need some of these "different" people in my life so I can show my kids that, hey, they're people just like you and me.

 

 

We do this!

 

We hosted a Fresh Air kid from Manhattan for 5 years so that we could help someone AND get to know a black person. (We live in all-white suburbs.) It was a good experience for us all. My dh's family hosted a Fresh AIr kid when he was young too (he was Hispanic).

 

We have also sponsored children from Plan International from Africa for many years (we're on our 3 child). Two of the boys were black Muslims and our current boy has a native religion. We get pictures, letters and reports about the child, community, religion and area regularly.

 

This is our way of helping and learning about other diverse peoples.

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I'm betting you know a lot of gay people. I'm betting you know a lot of gay people in the military. You don't necessarily know they're gay though. I have my undergrad degree in English and Theatrical Design. You couldn't swing a cat (BTW why would you swing a cat?) without hitting a gay person. Some were wildly flamboyant, but others weren't. One of my friends owned a gay bar, but if you just met him on the street, you'd probably never suspect he was gay. When he was at the club though he was a flaming queen. He was also a drag performer, who put on an amazing show. Seriously, drag shows are the most fun, even for straight people.

I think the important thing is for you to find out where this is coming from in your son and have a very frank discussion about it. Both my parents are not cool with gay people, which drives me insane. Indy doesn't like their attitude either. He doesn't see what the big deal is, since we're all just people.

I'm certain this is hard for you. You've gotten a lot of great advice here. Best of luck to you.

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Fair question. Look up and down your street. Someone there is homosexual. Look at your church congregation. Someone there is homosexual. Look around at your next extended family reunion. Someone there is homosexual.

 

My older brothers used to do that "I hate gay people" thing when they were young. I feel they were afraid that gay guys would try something with them. (In fact, both of them had been inappropriately touched by male pedophiles, which I know does not equal gays, but they did not know that.) Possibly your sons are also concerned about that, especially if kids at school say such things. Let them know that 10% of the men in their lives / neighborhoods / church ARE gay but don't ACT gay. Because there's no such thing as "acting" gay. There are gay people who act flamboyant, but far more gay people just go about their business like everyone else. They are no more likely to bother your son than your son is to molest a little girl on her way down the street.

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You've received so many good responses. I don't have much to add, but just wanted to say that this thread is a good reminder to parents that children are never too young to learn tolerance. I think many a well-intentioned family has taught respect and tolerance for skin color and religion, but neglected homosexuality because they felt their children were too young to talk about *sex*. By the time they get around to it, the kids have already been exposed to ugly views from their peers. My point is, homosexuality does not need to be presented to children as a sex issue. It is a love issue. My kids have always understood, in the simplest of terms, that gay=a boy that loves boys or a girl that loves girls. That's why it is impossible for them to understand the discrimination. Why would someone be hated, or not have the right to marry, if they love someone? :(

 

Best wishes as you navigate this with your son!

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It's hard to point you in a direction because... they are just people. Normal people who feel attracted to the same sex. I have gay friends who are in ballroom dancing, high level Latin choir, English professor, elementary school French teacher, knitting/spinning while a student, editor, etc, etc, etc.

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I'm not sure where you live in Texas but I live in the DFW area and have gay friends. They don't really advertise they fact that they are gay, they just are, kwim?

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I think it's wonderful that you want to address the situation thoroughly and right away. Good for you, Mom, for recognizing how important it is!

 

I want to second the recommendations to watch the It Gets Better videos and to check with your local PFLAG to see how your family can participate.

 

My only other ideas relate more to (1) a more tolerant worldview in general and (2) other religions; I would recommend that your family visit a different house of worship one day each month. Find a brief overview of the belief system to share with your family a day or two before you go, and maybe call a few days ahead to get an idea of what to expect and what will be expected of you. Be sure to include a Unitarian Universalist service (they tend to have the strongest "treat every person with love" message, I believe).

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Interesting. I know a lot of gay people. I have two cousins (same family, one male, one female) who are gay. My first husband (father of my daughter) has two brothers who are both gay. My two best friends from elementary school are both gay (one male and one female). I have worked for a lesbian. I worked with three lesbians at my last job. I worked with a lesbian and a gay guy at Wal-Mart. It's funny how you haven't encountered any and I have encountered a lot. I am also a conservative Christian.

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I think it is very worthwhile to work on helping your kids seek tolerance.

 

And your son is a *teenager*. He gets out of the house. He will hear those words out in the world. I don't like that someone made you feel like they must be used in your home for your teenager to know them.

 

The mayor of Fort Worth is also gay.

 

Here he is talking about bullying:

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My cousin is gay, and if you didn't know you wouldn't know. It's not like she wears a label. She is a great person, and her girlfriend is a loud, opinionated, happy, and wonderful person...probably one of my favorite people I have ever had the pleasure to meet. None of that has anything to do with her sexual preference, though. I also became really good friends with a gal I met on a forum, and I am friends with her and her fiance on facebook. Great people! Again, unless you knew their story you would have no idea. They would be great, no matter who they chose as a mate. I agree that you probably already know gay people.

 

You have received some great advice and suggestions, so I don't think I have much to add in that regard. :) Good luck!

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We are military too, dh is still in, I did 8 years, and we both know/knew gay soldiers before don't ask/don't tell, and now. It seems like everybody knew they were gay, which I suppose is why the ban is now fully lifted- no one much cared, mostly. (I recognize this could be branch specific attitude, obviously I wasn't a Marine infantryman, lol).

 

I think you are on the right track, wanting to address the homophobia.

 

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I think it is very worthwhile to work on helping your kids seek tolerance.

 

And your son is a *teenager*. He gets out of the house. He will hear those words out in the world. I don't like that someone made you feel like they must be used in your home for your teenager to know them.

 

The mayor of Fort Worth is also gay.

 

Here he is talking about bullying:

 

 

I was the only one that mentioned where that word was heard & this is not what I meant. I clarified. Please don't paint it as something it wasn't.

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OP, I don't have any advice on how to go about broadening your circle of friends, but I just wanted to applaud your desire to remove your son's prejudices. We have always had a rather broad circle of friends ourselves (not purposefully; it's just who we are), and my dd's outlook that people are people has always been there. We know plenty of people who do not hold that opinion, though, and whenever something negative comes up, I always reinforce to dd our family's values and beliefs. She has been the defender of differences more than once during conversations that have come up among her peers, too. I hope you figure out a way to change your son's mind. It's parents like you, the ones who are rightfully shocked and outraged at prejudice, who will help make the world a better, safer, kinder place. Thank you for caring.

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I think what you are trying to do is commendable. Not having grown up in the military, I can only imagine what it must be like.

 

Going out to find gay people could backfire. I presume that you are not trying to find people who are really out there, who look extraordinarily different, as that would only be reinforcing stereotypes. It sounds as though a lot of broadening is in order, especially since you don't know Jewish people or Muslims.

 

I'm sorry I don't have specific suggestions for your area, but I am glad that you are tackling this.

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Yeah, I didn't mean that to be accusatory, It just seems weird for a teen to pull that out of seemingly nowhere. If he has heard it used in that way enough to have said it himself, then I would look at that as a negative influence that would need to go away. KWIM?

 

Disclaimer: I don't have teens. :D

 

 

I was the only one that mentioned where that word was heard & this is not what I meant. I clarified. Please don't paint it as something it wasn't.

 

 

Even your clarification seems to imply that there is a negative influence to be found and cut out, at the least.

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Even your clarification seems to imply that there is a negative influence to be found and cut out, at the least.

 

& there may be. I never said for sure there was. How does it not make sense to at least ask where this word was learned? It may be a non-issue. But it may be an issue. I never implied that it was an issue for the OP or that she had taught her child to say those things. But it isn't wrong to ask the question. Sheesh.

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& there may be. I never said for sure there was. How does it not make sense to at least ask where this word was learned? It may be a non-issue. But it may be an issue. I never implied that it was an issue for the OP or that she had taught her child to say those things. But it isn't wrong to ask the question. Sheesh.

 

 

No, no. Don't worry about it. I can assure you that the word was never heard in our home. I'm not offended by your asking, because, honestly, if I were someone reading this thread, that would be one of my first questions, too.

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No, no. Don't worry about it. I can assure you that the word was never heard in our home. I'm not offended by your asking, because, honestly, if I were someone reading this thread, that would be one of my first questions, too.

 

 

Thank you. I didn't mean any offense or to cast any blame your way. Parenting isn't for the faint of heart.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

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This should have come up in their homeschooling. They should have studied civil rights issues, abolition, suffrage, changing laws, persecution of minorities or even just the current "other."

 

This should have come up in the Bible studies. What is sodomy? What are those verses in the first chapter of Romans talking about? What is our church's position on homosexuality, and homosexuals in the clergy? What is our denomination's history with this topic? How have we changed, or have we?

 

This should have come up in family exposure to mainstream entertainment. What movies and TV shows do we watch? How do they refute or bolster our family's worldview? How does a particular character or plotline reinforce stereotypes?

 

This should have come up in family exposure to politics and current events. What was all the fuss about California's Proposition 8? Who was Matthew Shepard? What does the President of the United States mean when he talks about diversity and tolerance? Do I agree with him? If I disagree, am I disagreeing with the definition of the problems or do I only disagree with his proposed solutions, especially in our public education system?

 

This should have come up in family discussions on how we talk to and about other people not like ourselves. Do we use profanity and pejoratives? Do we believe that individuals are more than a label? What is the Golden Rule?

 

I would see this episode as a crisis. I entirely agree with you that this is a very big deal. But I wouldn't just go find a gay person; I'm afraid I have to agree with KKinVa that people are not zoo exhibits to be studied. Instead, I would wonder two things:

 

1. How is it that my children have been raised entirely in a bubble? Did I mean to do that, or did it just happen? How do we join mainstream America while retaining our personal beliefs and convictions? How can I raise my children to be informed, compassionate, and effective at making our society better?

 

2. What's up with the name-calling and hate. Have I modeled that? If not me, then who? Where did my kid learn that his response was at all appropriate in any way? How can I find out what else lurks in his heart that I need to bring into the light?

 

I'm praying that answers will present themselves to you, Kinsa. This is very shocking and frightening, but I hope it's a matter of ignorance and can easily be addressed with this child. I hope it's not an ingrained hatred that you won't be able to remedy at this late date.

 

 

I'm sure you meant this to be something for me to reflect upon, but I just wanted to assure you that these things HAVE come up in our house. That's why it's such a shocker to me that my son is thinking this way! We have studied the civil rights movement. We have studied the sufferage movement. Heck, just the other night we watched Shindler's List, so we've studied the extremes of what can happen when hate overcomes. And yes, we've studied homosexuality in the light of scripture, noting that scripture says it's wrong but that God loves everyone regardless of personal sin and that there are plenty of things in scripture that we ourselves sin against. (Please, let's not turn this into a religious debate.) When we talk about politics, it centers around economic and foreign policy and not so much on social issues. I like the idea of assigning research of Matthew Shepard and the mayor of Houston. Good ideas. But this attitude of his was not learned in our family. I have a poster of the Golden Rule hanging in our classroom. We talk about the dignity of individuals all the time. That's why this is such an out-of-the-blue shocker to me.

 

Yes, my kids have been raised in a bubble. That's the point of this thread. But that bubble was not entirely of my making. I'm trying to pop that bubble a little bit.

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Since your son has always been in the majority, perhaps it'd do him good to reflect on what sorts of people would or wouldn't want to be friends with *him* or the stereotype others would associate with him.

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I've been doing a little thinking about this and realized something that should have hit me between the eyes from the beginning.

 

Your son keeps saying, he doesn't really care if people gay, so long as they don't act like it (we know this isn't true, though, don't we, considering the fact he can't even fathom the hypothetical idea that one of his family members might be gay, or the ugly terms he uses to talk about gay people).

 

The most important place he probably learns this is from your religion. The kindest iteration of conservative Christian beliefs regarding homosexuals today is "they can be gay, they just can't ever act on it."

 

Sound familiar?

 

I think your son is pretty far gone at this point, honestly, and it's going to be a long road for his attitude to change. He's probably been taught this for a long time, and he's likely in a religious community that holds this standard (even if they don't use the words your son is using, he's caught on to the basic idea).

 

You trying to counter this at this point is coming as a shock to him, obviously. He might learn to keep his ideas to himself, or say the right things, but it's likely that only experience and good relationships with homosexuals is going to help him come around, if he ever does--but you can see why he would likely be reluctant to even know gays, not to say _truly_ get to know them as meaningful friends.

 

I can see that it's reasonable you're looking for those kind of relationships for you to help your point of view, since you're trying to be open. I don't know that's a good route for you to take your son on necessarily. It doesn't sound like he's ready. He has a lot of learning, influenced by his faith background, to undo. And . . . that can be very dicey.

 

I might be totally wrong here, but I don't think it's unreasonable to actually look at his understanding/acceptance of your religious beliefs and how you might want to try to . . . deal with those, to temper his hatred/fear of gays.

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The kindest iteration of conservative Christian beliefs regarding homosexuals today is "they can be gay, they just can't ever act on it."

 

 

Your post could be right, I don't know. I don't know Kinsa or what, exactly, conservative Christianity means to her. But I don't agree with your statement that I quoted. I am a conservative Christian and I don't have any particular belief about homosexuals & what they should or should not do. I'm more worried about what I should/should not do. Homosexuals don't have any extra rules.

 

Gotta go make dinner but I wanted to at least start to say this...

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This thread has been a bit of an eye-opener for me. It never dawned on me that anyone wouldn't have met people of any of the different persuasions or religions mentioned here. :eek: It's also kind of odd to me that anyone would think that there was anything particularly unusual about any of them.

 

I'm not being judgmental -- if you don't come into contact with a wide variety of people, you're not going to meet them. It's certainly nothing to feel badly about.

 

Growing up in the NYC area, we met all kinds of people, and it never occurred to me that everyone else didn't have similar experiences, no matter where they lived. I mean, I know some areas aren't very diverse, but I guess I just assumed that most people visited cities or went on vacation or went to college or whatever, and met different kinds of people when they traveled around.

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I have three gay friends, and they are awesome. My kids know them in a very limited way, because I work with them, but my kids are not homophobic, lol. The gay friends I have are fun people, they are people who have lots of friends period, but what I like most about them is that they are never jealous when I look good, they are happy for me. They are never jealous when my kids accomplish good stuff, they root them on. Sadly, I don't have too many women in my life like this. I have a few, but not many. If I wasn't such and introvert I would seek out more gracious women friends, but life is short and I have hobbies, lol.

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Just throwing this out there because it was discussed in a book I recently read (Raising Cain: Protecting the Emotional Life of Boys). According to the author, a lot of teenage boys have a real fear of being/becoming gay, and that can come out as extreme intolerance of/anger towards gay people. I've never been a teenage boy, but the concept made sense to me. Maybe your son is really facing some internal fears and insecurities of his own.

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Guest inoubliable

(Raising Cain: Protecting the Emotional Life of Boys). According to the author, a lot of teenage boys have a real fear of being/becoming gay, and that can come out as extreme intolerance of/anger towards gay people.

 

 

That is so completely and incredibly....sad. To think that anyone has a *fear* of being gay.

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The kindest iteration of conservative Christian beliefs regarding homosexuals today is "they can be gay, they just can't ever act on it."

 

Sound familiar?

 

 

 

I obviously can't speak for Kinsa, but for me personally this is very true of any church I have ever attended (Southern Baptist and non-denominational, both fairly conservative). This may be a likely source of your son's opinion. Lots of people say they don't care if others are gay, "as long as I don't have to see it". That's just not the way the world works though. I think time and getting to know a broader range of people in an organic way (such as at college) will be most likely to sway your son's thoughts. Open, honest conversations like you are having is a good step.

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For those that are teaching, tolerance.org has some great resources (not just about gays, but about reducing/erasing prejudice).

 

The tolerance.org website is put together by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) -- a nonprofit civil rights group that does much to fight hate & prejudice in our society today.

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That is so completely and incredibly....sad. To think that anyone has a *fear* of being gay.

 

Why in the world wouldn't they fear being gay when their peers and society as a whole send such a hateful message?

 

Gay people are gross. Gay sex is disgusting. Gay people are destroying the moral fabric of society. God is going to rain destruction down on the US because of gay people. Gay people aren't allowed to marry the people they love. Gay people are going to Hell. Gay people are pedophiles. If you're gay, you can't be Boy Scouts. Gay people are ok, but only if they never ever give anyone the slightest hint they might be gay. Gay men aren't real men.

 

Even though your household is not sending this message, I can promise you they're hearing that somewhere (heck, some of that has been pulled from threads here on WTM).

 

And wouldn't that be terrifying for a tween/teen, whose biggest goal is to fit in with everyone else, be "normal", and find someone to love, when they're starting to suspect that maybe the person they'll love will be the same sex?

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Why in the world wouldn't they fear being gay when their peers and society as a whole send such a hateful message? There are a few communities that aren't hateful. And more every day. I didn't say that there wasn't reason to fear because of a-holes in the world - but it is sad.

 

Gay people are gross. Gay sex is disgusting. Gay people are destroying the moral fabric of society. God is going to rain destruction down on the US because of gay people. Gay people aren't allowed to marry the people they love. Gay people are going to Hell. Gay people are pedophiles. If you're gay, you can't be Boy Scouts. Gay people are ok, but only if they never ever give anyone the slightest hint they might be gay. Gay men aren't real men. I hope that was hypothetical and not your true feelings on that...

 

Even though your household is not sending this message, I can promise you they're hearing that somewhere (heck, some of that has been pulled from threads here on WTM). No, my children are not hearing this sort of hate anywhere. Definitely. It is possible to surround yourself with well-educated, loving, open-minded, and kind people - who understand the science of homosexuality and aren't bigoted about it.

 

And wouldn't that be terrifying for a tween/teen, whose biggest goal is to fit in with everyone else, be "normal", and find someone to love, when they're starting to suspect that maybe the person they'll love will be the same sex? Yes, yes. No idea what drum you're really beating here. I never said that it didn't happen - that fear. I said it's sad.

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I hope that was hypothetical and not your true feelings on that...

Of course not. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. Those are just some of the messages a large segment of our society are sending, and kids hear it, even if it isn't the message they get at home.

 

No, my children are not hearing this sort of hate anywhere. Definitely. It is possible to surround yourself with well-educated, loving, open-minded, and kind people - who understand the science of homosexuality and aren't bigoted about it.

No, I promise you, it's there. You can choose who they associate with, yes. And they can choose to ignore the messages, laugh at them, whatever. But the message is still there,.

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Then I mentioned that he has a 17yo brother who doesn't at all seem to be into girls. What if your brother is gay? Then there was complete denial. Interestingly, my 13yo son asked me if we would disown him if he were, to which I assured him that we would not. Then he asked me if we would disown any of them if they ended up in jail, and I said yes. (LOL) So then my 15yo was ALL confused and indignantly asked why I would disown them if they ended up in jail and not if they were gay, so I told them because it's not illegal to be gay.

 

I wanted to mention to him how Jesus would be hangin' with the gays if he were here today, but I didn't get a chance to. I guess I'll save that one in my back pocket for the next time it comes up, because I'm sure there's going to be a next time.

 

I wouldn't bring up the whole Jesus hanging out with sinners so he'd be hanging out with gay people thing. In all honesty, that's where the bigotry is coming from. He hates gays because gays are sinners. Why not just tell him being gay is as normal as the skin color you have? If you don't make it a big deal it won't be a big deal.

 

Portia De Rossi wrote that the best thing to say to your child if he/she tells you they are gay is "so what". That's what I would tell my kids.

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Guest inoubliable

I wouldn't bring up the whole Jesus hanging out with sinners so he'd be hanging out with gay people thing. In all honesty, that's where the bigotry is coming from. He hates gays because gays are sinners. Why not just tell him being gay is as normal as the skin color you have? If you don't make it a big deal it won't be a big deal.

 

Portia De Rossi wrote that the best thing to say to your child if he/she tells you they are gay is "so what". That's what I would tell my kids.

 

:iagree:

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I read ocelotmom very differently, and yours. I think we need some of those new punctuation marks

 

ocelotmom, on 27 February 2013 - 06:40 PM, said: Why in the world wouldn't they fear being gay when their peers and society as a whole send such a hateful message? There are a few communities that aren't hateful. And more every day. I didn't say that there wasn't reason to fear because of a-holes in the world - but it is sad.

 

Gay people are gross. Gay sex is disgusting. Gay people are destroying the moral fabric of society. God is going to rain destruction down on the US because of gay people. Gay people aren't allowed to marry the people they love. Gay people are going to Hell. Gay people are pedophiles. If you're gay, you can't be Boy Scouts. Gay people are ok, but only if they never ever give anyone the slightest hint they might be gay. Gay men aren't real men. I hope that was hypothetical and not your true feelings on that... This is the "hateful message" she was talking about.

 

Even though your household is not sending this message, I can promise you they're hearing that somewhere (heck, some of that has been pulled from threads here on WTM). No, my children are not hearing this sort of hate anywhere. Definitely. It is possible to surround yourself with well-educated, loving, open-minded, and kind people - who understand the science of homosexuality and aren't bigoted about it. Must be nice to have your kids still able to not hear anything you don't want them to, but there will come a time when you're not there to censor who they talk to. We all hope the values we want our children grow up with are the ones that stick and I'm sure you're doing everything you can, but people make their own lives.

 

And wouldn't that be terrifying for a tween/teen, whose biggest goal is to fit in with everyone else, be "normal", and find someone to love, when they're starting to suspect that maybe the person they'll love will be the same sex? Yes, yes. No idea what drum you're really beating here. I never said that it didn't happen - that fear. I said it's sad.

 

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I wouldn't bring up the whole Jesus hanging out with sinners so he'd be hanging out with gay people thing. In all honesty, that's where the bigotry is coming from. He hates gays because gays are sinners. Why not just tell him being gay is as normal as the skin color you have? If you don't make it a big deal it won't be a big deal.

 

Portia De Rossi wrote that the best thing to say to your child if he/she tells you they are gay is "so what". That's what I would tell my kids.

 

 

What about people who don't believe the underlined is true but still see gay people as people deserving of respect and love and friendship? Whether or not speculating as to whether or not someone is sinning in their personal life is a different issue.

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What about people who don't believe the underlined is true but still see gay people as people deserving of respect and love and friendship? Whether or not speculating as to whether or not someone is sinning in their personal life is a different issue.

 

 

What about people who still think black people are inferior but are still deserving of respect and love and friendship? Is it possible to send your child the message that black people are sinners yet we still need to love them because Jesus loved sinners? The church fought for racial segregation based on the bible and they are fighting homosexuality based on the bible. There is no difference.

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Yes, yes. No idea what drum you're really beating here. I never said that it didn't happen - that fear. I said it's sad.

I probably read you wrong originally. I read "To think that anyone would fear being gay" as a statement of it's own, rather than a continuation of the sad statement.

 

I agree, it is sad.

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I can give you some ideas for being around (not necessarily making the acquaintance of, but being around) gay people - even in Texas. Around Dallas or Houston, go to the artsy neighborhood with the funky bookstores and cafes. Find a fun coffee shop - the kind with books and magazines laying around that anyone can read, and maybe some board games - and hang out for a while on a Saturday.

 

Another idea - occasionally visit a UU church in your area. I know it's not your normal choice of church, but it might be fun anyway. And since UU churches are very welcoming to gay people, you may very well meet some nice gay folks at a UU church.

 

What you will ultimately learn about gay people is that they are just people, living their lives and pursuing love and happiness.

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I wouldn't bring up the whole Jesus hanging out with sinners so he'd be hanging out with gay people thing. In all honesty, that's where the bigotry is coming from. He hates gays because gays are sinners. Why not just tell him being gay is as normal as the skin color you have? If you don't make it a big deal it won't be a big deal.

 

Portia De Rossi wrote that the best thing to say to your child if he/she tells you they are gay is "so what". That's what I would tell my kids.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

Kinsa, if your religion teaches that homosexuality is a sin, you're most likely never going to be able to teach your son to have any level of respect for them. There's always going to be that subtle message in conservative Christian culture that those of us in the LGBT community are bad. Lesser than "normal" people. Grouped together with liars and thieves and murderers. It's sad, but I just don't think there's any way around that.

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Guest inoubliable

I read ocelotmom very differently, and yours. I think we need some of those new punctuation marks

 

 

Oh for... I didn't say there wasn't hate. I didn't say that kids didn't have a need to fear being gay. I said it was sad. That's it. Ocelotmom quoted me and went on about "of course there is hateful messages out there and of course they are scared!" Mkay. She elaborated on what was my brevity.

 

It's cool. Not everything comes across well on the internet. *shrug*

 

It IS nice that my kids have decent people in their lives. I pride myself on having a diverse group of lovely people in our lives. (This is not to say that I live in a bubble of rainbows and cupcakes. I understand that some people do not have such lovely people in their lives. Good grief.) By the time they're old enough that I won't be there to "censor" for them, I'd hope they are still the lovely and bright people that they are now and know how to filter assholes from their lives on their very own. It's not "values". It's social skills.

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Guest inoubliable

I probably read you wrong originally. I read "To think that anyone would fear being gay" as a statement of it's own, rather than a continuation of the sad statement.

 

I agree, it is sad.

 

 

No harm, no foul. I'd give you a big gay hug, but I'm only bisexual so I'm probably not gay enough and I don't know if that act of solidarity would make the forums completely blow up anyway. ;)

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I am kind of confused op. You believe that being a homosexual is sin yet you want your children to be comfortable around them. I understand not wanting your son to hate homosexuals because it is a sin to hate. As Christians we are not to have close associations with people who are living in sin. This includes adulterers fornicators drunks thieves etc. So no one thinks I am attacking one set of people. I do not understand thinking something is wrong then trying to make your children feel comfortable being around somebody that is sinning.

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I'm a completely normal bisexual here. I do normal things like homeschool some of my kids, send some to school, grocery shop, and the list goes on. My guess is you've run into a lot of us but have never realized it.

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