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For me, the link brings me to an article called "Need 3 Quick Credits to Play Ball?"

 

Is it hidden in there?

 

J

 

 

How strange. That was a link I posted in the NCAA thread. Let me see if I can fix it.

 

I think it's correct now.

 

The situation just adds to the sense of shifting sand under me. Are they improving so more students from under represented populations have good scores? Or to make a test that better identifies students ready for college work? Ora's a goad to drive change in secondary school curriculum?

 

Ack.

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I hope this process takes a long time. I wonder how the private schools in the country are going to react to this since they do not have to adopt the Common Core standards.

 

I haven't read much on this yet, but my initial reaction is that I don't like the thought of the College Board having a "social mission" . I also don't like the thought that I will have to teach to the Common Core in order for my kids to do well on the SATs. This passage was from the article I read:

 

Those are just some of the reasons Mr. Coleman believes the College Board must do more to bridge the gulf between K-12 and higher education. "We're at the intersection," he said. One of his goals is to mold the organization's identity, "making it one and the same thing for the College Board to succeed in its social mission and to succeed as an institution," he said.

Robert A. Schaefer, public education director for FairTest, a testing watchdog group, is among the College Board's most outspoken critics. In an e-mail he described Mr. Coleman's hiring as "the next logical move in the drive to dominate U.S. public education with 'one-size-fits-all' products in its self-appointed role as the country's non-elected, national school board."

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I wonder if they're trying to make it a bit more like the ACT, since an increasing number of students seem to be taking the ACT instead? Perhaps the "social mission" talk is just a way of putting a positive, PC spin on what's really an attempt to reclaim revenue they're losing to the ACT corp. Anyway, I think that's one way to read his statement about the social mission and the [financial] success of the CB as an institution being one and the same.

 

I wouldn't change how or what I teach just to align with the SAT/common core, though — I'm sure there will be plenty of test prep books to fill any minor content gaps, just as there are for the SAT subject tests (and the ACT).

 

Jackie

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Shifting sands is definitely how I'm feeling these days!

 

The Washington Post has an interesting article on this-perhaps most interesting for having link to the actual program (and transcript) where the new head of College Board made these remarks. I can't even imagine what he wants to change with one exception-he seems to want a document based essay on the SAT (or one derived from common core class content) rather than an opinion piece.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/01/03/new-college-board-chief-cites-problems-with-sat/

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I hope this process takes a long time. I wonder how the private schools in the country are going to react to this since they do not have to adopt the Common Core standards.

 

I haven't read much on this yet, but my initial reaction is that I don't like the thought of the College Board having a "social mission" . I also don't like the thought that I will have to teach to the Common Core in order for my kids to do well on the SATs. This passage was from the article I read:

 

 

Those are just some of the reasons Mr. Coleman believes the College Board must do more to bridge the gulf between K-12 and higher education. "We're at the intersection," he said. One of his goals is to mold the organization's identity, "making it one and the same thing for the College Board to succeed in its social mission and to succeed as an institution," he said.

Robert A. Schaefer, public education director for FairTest, a testing watchdog group, is among the College Board's most outspoken critics. In an e-mail he described Mr. Coleman's hiring as "the next logical move in the drive to dominate U.S. public education with 'one-size-fits-all' products in its self-appointed role as the country's non-elected, national school board."

 

What do you know about FairTest?

 

The social mission of College Board is equal access to education for all students.

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We were just talking about this last night. Navy girl was the guinea-pig year for the new "new" SAT (oldest dd got the "new" SAT) and I'm so glad that I forced her to take an extra one in her junior year right before they switched. No one knew what the new one was going to look like, and sure enough, everyone's score dropped precipitously. I'll only have one kiddo that the new new "new" SAT will catch.

 

 

This. Is there any possible way they will have a new, new, "new" SAT by next year? Do we need to sign up ASAP?

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Has anyone really read the Common Core standards? I have browsed them and I don't see why everyone (including the SAT people) are getting their knickers in a bunch. It is all a bunch of edu-gobbledy gook. My friend is a speech pathologist who works with kids with autism at our local high school. Most of these kids in her case load are non-verbal or barely verbal. She is required to write her IEPs to reflect the CC standards FOR GRADE LEVEL, even though most of these kids don't have a hope of functioning beyond a 1st grade level. But, she is a master at using the same educational gobbledly gook that gets these approved.

 

I think this announcement is all about $$$ ... more money for the College Board. Me, cynical?? Surely, you jest!!

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The social mission of College Board is equal access to education for all students.

 

 

I have not read the Common Core standards. I don't understand why the SAT needs to be revised in order to be aligned with the Common Core. I thought the purpose of the SAT was simply to test academic ability.

 

Does the Common Core have a reading list that the schools must adhere to? If so, will these novels be used exclusively on the Reading section of the SAT? If so, then it seems like we would need to make sure our kids are also exposed to these novels in order to score high on the SAT.

 

If the social mission of the College Board is simply equal access to education for all students, then that is great. If the social mission is to

define what a student is exposed to in the classroom, then I don't think that is a great idea at all.

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I have not read the Common Core standards. I don't understand why the SAT needs to be revised in order to be aligned with the Common Core. I thought the purpose of the SAT was simply to test academic ability.

 

I think the SAT has always been a bit more of an intelligence test (hence Scholastic Aptitude Test), whereas the ACT is a more straightforward test of ability. SAT questions are often deliberately tricky in order to test the student's intellectual capacity to puzzle it out, whereas ACT is more about what you know. So perhaps the coded language about "access for all' may have to do with making the SAT focused more on what you've learned (which is possible now that there's a common core) versus how smart you are? That's my guess anyway.

 

Jackie

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So perhaps the coded language about "access for all' may have to do with making the SAT focused more on what you've learned (which is possible now that there's a common core) versus how smart you are? That's my guess anyway.

 

Jackie

 

While I know that the ACT/SAT are different, and some students score better on one vs the other, I have never really seen that much difference in the SAT vs ACT as far as content goes. Math is math, English is English, and the science section on the ACT does not require any content knowledge...it is more of a chart/table speed reading test. All the information needed to answer the science questions is provided in the section itself.

 

I guess my question is why doesn't the SAT already align with the Common Core? What specific changes will need to be made to the SAT? Will actual content knowledge (i.e. prior knowledge about specific works of literature) be required if the SAT is revised?

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I do not understand the entire discussion: the SAT tests whether a student can read and comprehend, can use the English language correctly, can write a very formulaic persuasive essay in a short time, and has math skills in algebra, geometry, and a little bit of trigonometry.

I fail to see how ANY of these skills can possibly be affected by adoption of Common Core - surely, English language grammar and semantics will not change, literature will not change, a well written essay will still be a well written essay, and math itself will not change either.

 

There is no actual content knowledge on the test.

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So perhaps the coded language about "access for all' may have to do with making the SAT focused more on what you've learned (which is possible now that there's a common core) versus how smart you are? That's my guess anyway.

 

 

Which in a sense, would be even more unequal: if the test tests what you have learned, a student who attends a crappy school is at a disadvantage. If the test tests how well you are able to apply simple skills and think, there is much more equality, because a smart student with intellectual aptitude from a crappy school would have a chance of scoring well, thus making the outcome more a reflection of the student's individual talent than of the quality of his schooling (which, as we all know, is extremely unequal in this country)

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Has anyone really read the Common Core standards?

 

 

Yes. I have also been following the proposals for cc science standards.

 

It helps a great deal to not just read the standards, but also read the appedixes and examplars given.

 

What is concerning is how they will be put into action, in the classrooms, in texts, and in assessments. Good material can become distorted...

 

I have watched the lead times on revisions to the AP's and looked back to get a feel for the how the last SAT revision evolved. While it is possible that we see a 2013-14 revision, it is not likely. Implementation is not going smoothly on the ground. Those who are Freshmen this year may well face a revised SAT prior to graduating. The ACT may revise as well. Both organizations were at the table for discussions of the development of the standards.

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The ACT may revise as well. Both organizations were at the table for discussions of the development of the standards.

 

I was reading this 2010 report by ACT titled "A First Look at the Common Core and College and Career Readiness". Pages 6 to 9 of 16 gives a quick summary.

This quote in the pdf makes me think that ACT would be revised

"ACT’s definition of college and career readiness was adopted by the Common Core State Standards Initiative and provides a unifying goal upon which educators and policymakers now must act."

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If you read the profile on Coleman on the other Common Core thread, this is actually what he wants to change. He wants to add content aligned to CC standards, so if he succeeds, it will indeed become a content-driven test.

 

 

I don't understand how content would be added to the SAT? Is there any information that provides specific examples of how the SAT may be changing? I have read how the essay component may be revamped. I think the essay section is flawed now since a person can achieve a score of 12 and not provide any actual factual information. I just don't understand how the Reading and Math sections could be changed?

 

Don't the Subject Tests already serve the purpose of testing content in various subject areas?

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Of course not. But I really think what many people fail to realize is that the College Board is not just about testing. That is a small part of what they do. The social mission of the College Board has very little to do with testing.

 

[/size]

 

Well, they never have met that goal (and never will.)

 

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The following might give some clues to the goals of the changes. I am pretty sure the assessment they refer to as beginning in 2015 is either the new form of ITBS/ITED's (although I recalled it was suppose to appear sooner) or it is one of the assessments being developed by one of the two "competing" interstate cooperatives.

 

Anyway here is the link:

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/high-school-notes/2011/11/28/do-multiple-choice-questions-pass-the-test

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Updated article about coming changes:

http://www.education...g-sat-redesign/

 

"

The impending redesign was also announced by College Board Vice President Peter Kauffmann in an email to the company staff.

In the months ahead, the College Board will begin an effort in collaboration with its membership to redesign the SAT® so that it better meets the needs of students, schools, and colleges at all levels. We will develop an assessment that mirrors the work that students will do in college so that they will practice the work they need to do to complete college. An improved SAT will strongly focus on the core knowledge and skills that evidence shows are most important to prepare students for the rigors of college and career. This is an ambitious endeavor, and one that will only succeed with the leadership of our Board of Trustees, the strong coordination of our councils and committees, and the full engagement of our membership."
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Sounds like it is going to go more toward the route of the ACT. I wonder if there is more to this than the common core?? I thought there had been rumblings that some institutions were actually starting to prefer the ACT as a more accurate indicator of student performance or am I mistaken??

 

I think in the end it is probably about money.

College Board sees the ACT gain acceptance and wants a piece of the pie back.

 

However, I do not see why the ACT would be a more accurate measure of student performance than the SAT.

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We will develop an assessment that
mirrors the work that students will do in college
so that they will
practice the work they need to do to
complete college. An improved SAT will strongly focus on the core knowledge and skills that evidence shows are most important to prepare students for the rigors of college and career.

 

What a lofty goal - and what a nonsense. What is that even supposed to mean? No single test can "mirror the work students will do in college". Most importantly for college success, students need to be able to pace themselves and keep up energy and work ethic throughout a semester in all their classes. It's a marathon. And this claim is like designing a sprint test that "mirrors" a marathon.

 

The core knowledge needed is reading, writing and math - and that is tested right now. I am very wary of all those claims, and the formulation "meet the needs of students" cracks me up. Not looking forward to the changes.

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Sounds like it is going to go more toward the route of the ACT. I wonder if there is more to this than the common core?? I thought there had been rumblings that some institutions were actually starting to prefer the ACT as a more accurate indicator of student performance or am I mistaken??

I wish I could remember where, but I read a year or two ago about ACT securing contracts with several states that made the ACT and the precursor tests it offers mandatory for students in public schools. They were huge contracts, big $ and put ACT over the top in terms of number of students taking. It had something to do with Race to the Top applications ....I just can't remember where it was.

 

The ACT has always, even back in the days when I still could wear skinny jeans wihtout looking ridiculous, been associated more with achievement and the SAT with critical thinking skills. Some even argued that the part of the SAT most relevant as a predictor of college success was the CR part, not the math. I was advised to take both back in the day of the VCR vs Beta vs Laser Disk wars.

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I wish I could remember where, but I read a year or two ago about ACT securing contracts with several states that made the ACT and the precursor tests it offers mandatory for students in public schools. They were huge contracts, big $ and put ACT over the top in terms of number of students taking. It had something to do with Race to the Top applications ....I just can't remember where it was.

 

 

Yes, that's exactly the motivation. The ACT has been successful in gaining market share by getting contracts from states to use is as a mandatory test. Keep in it isn't just that states purchase the ACT but that also trickles down into buying the other ACT products - the PLAN and EXPLORE and that's big, big business. Some colleges see the ACT more as a reflection of what students have learned and the trend has been for more and more colleges to take the ACT with writing as a substitute for taking SAT subject tests.

 

Some aspects of the SAT including the guessing penalty and emphasis on vocabulary are not appealing to many students. It has been expected for a while now that the SAT would shift to try to gain more market share back from the ACT. I would not expect the changes for at least another year and I don't think they will be as radical as people many anticipate. The current version of the SAT is already closer to the ACT than it was before the last revision.

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Some aspects of the SAT including the guessing penalty and emphasis on vocabulary are not appealing to many students.

 

 

I assume one of the most unappealing factors is the mandatory essay on the SAT

Both times when DD took the ACT with writing, there were hardly any students in the "with writing" room - the majority opts out of the essay.

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I assume one of the most unappealing factors is the mandatory essay on the SAT

Both times when DD took the ACT with writing, there were hardly any students in the "with writing" room - the majority opts out of the essay.

 

If I recall correctly, the essay was introduced as a reform to present a clearer picture of how students would perform in college by providing a real writing sample, not something slaved over with lots of hands editing it. Supposedly this was a response to colleges wanting a better way of sorting students. Yet it seems like few colleges even consider the SAT essay. (Though perhaps it's only the few I've looked at that don't seem to care.)

 

The party line about the SAT was that it demonstrated student potential and ability to think in higher level ways, not only the content they had learned. I'm curious how a more content based test will withstand pushback from those who see cultural bias in a test that has results that are not a perfect mirror for population demographics.

 

(One of the saddest things I read last week was a report about college acceptances from spring 2012. In the midst of pointing out that it was more competitive than ever at selective schools, with record setting applications and record setting turn down rates, the article observed that it was especially dim for "unhooked white girls." These are students who are high performing but don't fill some sort of desired demographic (minority, first generation college attendee, low income, etc). No one argued that they weren't well qualified. They just were not particularly desired. I find it so sad that a well qualified student would be turned down on the basis of not having an interesting back story. I know there are limited slots at any school. I just find the bean counting tiresome and not always productive. NB: I do not have any daughters, btw. I find it even more worrisome that the quality of college readiness and rate of college attendence among young men may give them an edge over girls now as a disirable minority on some campuses.)

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Yet it seems like few colleges even consider the SAT essay.

 

I read somewhere (I'll have to look for it) that colleges don't use the essay score because they have not found a reliable statistical correlation between essay scores and freshman English performance.

 

I doubt if changing it to a document based essay will help that.

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Sounds like utter nonsense to me, and David Coleman needs to work on his speaking/writing because he isn't coming across as particularly intelligent. I wonder what his SAT score was? What I didn't hear him mention at all, is how SAT scores correlate with success in college. Improving that correlation should be the only goal of the College Board. There should be no "social mission" other than offering access to the test and preparation materials to as many students as possible. Sadly, there is no financial gain for the College Board in lowering test fees and materials prices.

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Sounds like utter nonsense to me, and David Coleman needs to work on his speaking/writing because he isn't coming across as particularly intelligent. I wonder what his SAT score was?

 

 

I agree. Particularly interesting as David Coleman is the leading author and architect of the Common Core State Standards.

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Nickel and dime you to death by charging fees to send scores, access AP scores by phone, and download FRQ files in order to prep for AP exams.

 

 

Yes, I think their monopoly on educational exams hinders competition and better exams - eg in foreign language exams....There should be a system where people can show the level that they have attained, not just have SAT II or AP levels which are not nearly so transparent as the European Union's levels......

 

Joan

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The following 2 page profile of Mr. Coleman, his background, influence, employment history and so forth may help those weighing the issues.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/10/the-schoolmaster/309091/

 

The following is a bit more about the types of goals/changes the College Board is seeking:

http://chronicle.com/blogs/headcount/college-boards-new-president-sees-walls-that-must-come-down/32498/

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(One of the saddest things I read last week was a report about college acceptances from spring 2012. In the midst of pointing out that it was more competitive than ever at selective schools, with record setting applications and record setting turn down rates, the article observed that it was especially dim for "unhooked white girls." These are students who are high performing but don't fill some sort of desired demographic (minority, first generation college attendee, low income, etc). No one argued that they weren't well qualified. They just were not particularly desired. I find it so sad that a well qualified student would be turned down on the basis of not having an interesting back story. I know there are limited slots at any school. I just find the bean counting tiresome and not always productive. NB: I do not have any daughters, btw. I find it even more worrisome that the quality of college readiness and rate of college attendence among young men may give them an edge over girls now as a disirable minority on some campuses.)

 

 

That's nothing new. Things were exactly this way when I graduated from high school just over 20 years ago, and the only difference now is that they're admitting it. We knew even then that no matter how highly-qualified we were, no matter how many AP classes and AP tests we had taken, no matter how high our GPA and SAT scores were, no matter how many extra areas of involvement we had and no matter how we shined in all of these other areas, the fact that we did not fit a particular demographic put us at a disadvantage. Nothing has changed in the past 20 years. We daydreamed then about how wonderful it would be to find the tiniest percentage of desired ethnicity in any of us (Italian doesn't count, lol) because we knew that alone would make us stand out better and gain us access to more colleges and merit awards, as the reality is that white girls from a lower-middle-class background were, and are, less interesting to colleges. I had a somewhat-interesting backstory due to my mom's illness and I used that as well as I could in my application essays - sad, but true.

 

I do have daughters, but I'm not worried about it. The system is what it is, and I know that my girls will do well despite things like this.

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Yes, I think their monopoly on educational exams hinders competition and better exams - eg in foreign language exams....There should be a system where people can show the level that they have attained, not just have SAT II or AP levels which are not nearly so transparent as the European Union's levels......

 

Joan

 

Joan, If your children will be applying to U.S. Colleges, could you have them also take the EU foreign language exams as well as the SAT II's and then explain the EU exams in the documentation you send to the US colleges?

 

I am doing something similar with regard to the AMC/AIME math exams. While the top schools are aware of this competition, I am not sure that some of the admissions officers in the lower ranked schools are. I am including a small blurb about the Math Olympiad competition on my son's "awards page" to ensure that the college admissions officers understand what the scores mean.

 

Could you do something similar with the EU foreign language scores?

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Joan, If your children will be applying to U.S. Colleges, could you have them also take the EU foreign language exams as well as the SAT II's and then explain the EU exams in the documentation you send to the US colleges?

 

I am doing something similar with regard to the AMC/AIME math exams. While the top schools are aware of this competition, I am not sure that some of the admissions officers in the lower ranked schools are. I am including a small blurb about the Math Olympiad competition on my son's "awards page" to ensure that the college admissions officers understand what the scores mean.

 

Could you do something similar with the EU foreign language scores?

 

I'm so forgetful. You just jogged my memory and I remembered that Nan in Mass's son did a European exam; I'll have to query her...

 

Thank you!

Joan

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could you have them also take the EU foreign language exams as well as the SAT II's and then explain the EU exams in the documentation you send to the US colleges?

 

 

I listed dd's German test, along with all her APs, SAT scores, National German test, National French test, etc on her transcript. None of the schools required SAT II's so I don't know if it would have replaced it or not, but nobody seemed surprised by them.

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I listed dd's German test, along with all her APs, SAT scores, National German test, National French test, etc on her transcript. None of the schools required SAT II's so I don't know if it would have replaced it or not, but nobody seemed surprised by them.

 

Ok, so sounds like at least some schools know what they are...I guess we just don't talk about them that much on the board....

 

Thanks ITGWN !

Joan

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