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swimmermom3

NCAA?

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When Sailor Dude (formerly Swimmer Dude) messed up his shoulder and retired from club swimming, I quit paying attention to anything to do with athletics and college. Well, he was back in the water for the first time in 1.5 years (outside of towing his boat in the river) in November for high school swimming. He swam varsity the whole season and squeaked into district finals in 500 free and 100 fly. Two-tenths off A time for 14 yo male. Not blindingly fast and nowhere near his former level, but solid enough for only three months in the pool to have a former club parent who knew ds ask if we were keeping swimming in mind for college. That is hard for us to see as he is still four inches shorter than most of the competition and a good 20 pounds lighter. Actually, the other parent blurted out, "What about NCAA?" when they heard he was homeschooling part-time. Yeah, what about it? :blushing:

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Sometime during his junior year, you/he should register with the NCAA. If he tests well, send them his ACT/SAT scores sooner rather than later. At the end of junior year, send transcripts and all other pertinent information. Any classes taken at PS/CC will be a breeze. Anything taken at home or online privately, keep records. They really like to see a textbook listed. They have new core course worksheets that ask a bunch of questions. Go the the NCAA Eligibility Center and click on the Resources tab. Take a look through the Homeschool link. Check out the NCAA tag.

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It's waaay easier than it was to walk through the NCAA process. Look online; it's all there. The biggie is the way courses are titled. No The Inklings: Lit of Tolkien, Lewis & Sayers, but English III. Same course, different title. Make sure he is NOT being talked to by college coaches until the summer between junior and senior years--we almost blew that with dd. The NCAA will not accept any work done in 8th grade--so make sure the student has the required math since he's already in geometry. Do a search here--we've talked about it many times.

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Sometime during his junior year, you/he should register with the NCAA. If he tests well, send them his ACT/SAT scores sooner rather than later. At the end of junior year, send transcripts and all other pertinent information. Any classes taken at PS/CC will be a breeze. Anything taken at home or online privately, keep records. They really like to see a textbook listed. They have new core course worksheets that ask a bunch of questions. Go the the NCAA Eligibility Center and click on the Resources tab. Take a look through the Homeschool link. Check out the NCAA tag.

 

Oh my, I'm not sure I'm thrilled with those worksheets. On one hand it may make it easier to be sure that one submits enough info for them to assess the first time through. On the other hand it looks like it might pose some pitfalls for coop use and especially for courses that use online instruction like Lukeion and OSU German.

If I list the online course and it wasn't a NCAA approved course are we up the creek without a paddle.

 

(I did not need this this week. Not on top of reading the verbiage of the state high school sports organization bypass which specified that homeschoolers are not "bona fided" students. I'm dreaming of a shirt that says Homeschooled students are bona fided. In Latin. )

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Sometime during his junior year, you/he should register with the NCAA. If he tests well, send them his ACT/SAT scores sooner rather than later. At the end of junior year, send transcripts and all other pertinent information. Any classes taken at PS/CC will be a breeze. Anything taken at home or online privately, keep records. They really like to see a textbook listed. They have new core course worksheets that ask a bunch of questions. Go the the NCAA Eligibility Center and click on the Resources tab. Take a look through the Homeschool link. Check out the NCAA tag.

 

 

 

It's sophomore year now, actually.

 

hth,

Georgia

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Oh my, I'm not sure I'm thrilled with those worksheets. On one hand it may make it easier to be sure that one submits enough info for them to assess the first time through. On the other hand it looks like it might pose some pitfalls for coop use and especially for courses that use online instruction like Lukeion and OSU German.

If I list the online course and it wasn't a NCAA approved course are we up the creek without a paddle.

 

(I did not need this this week. Not on top of reading the verbiage of the state high school sports organization bypass which specified that homeschoolers are not "bona fided" students. I'm dreaming of a shirt that says Homeschooled students are bona fided. In Latin. )

 

 

:iagree:

I had a conversation last year with the NCAA homeschool liaison about this very issue. My oldest has used AoPS online for years, but they are not accredited. When I spoke with the homeschool liaison last year I was told not to mention the online component and simply list myself as the teacher. This worksheet is now asking for specific information, and I am not comfortable using that approach now.

 

What a giant pain. It would not annoy me so much if I respected this organization, but I don't. It is hard for me to understand why they require so much academic documentation, yet as long as a student achieves a combined score of 400 for Reading and Math on the SAT, the athletic will meet the academic eligibility criteria as long as he has a high gpa.

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That's putting it mildly.

They are requiring more academic information than any college admissions officer I have spoken with. This is really obscene. :cursing: :rant:

 

I'll end my rant now.

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Nevermind, they are. I was hoping they wouldn't be required til 2016 like the other changes.

 

My goodness what other changes? Might as well dump it all on me at once. It's been a crummy dark ages blah winter anyway.

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My goodness what other changes?

 

The course and grade requirements are changing, but they are still below what I would consider college prep, so they will be less of a pain.

 

It does appear that they want the transcript by grade, not subject, which is another change from two years ago. Bother.

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:iagree:

I had a conversation last year with the NCAA homeschool liaison about this very issue. My oldest has used AoPS online for years, but they are not accredited. When I spoke with the homeschool liaison last year I was told not to mention the online component and simply list myself as the teacher. This worksheet is now asking for specific information, and I am not comfortable using that approach now.

 

What a giant pain. It would not annoy me so much if I respected this organization, but I don't. It is hard for me to understand why they require so much academic documentation, yet as long as a student achieves a combined score of 400 for Reading and Math on the SAT, the athletic will meet the academic eligibility criteria as long as he has a high gpa.

 

I was already planning to give my coop students a good solid course description in case they need it in the future. Looks like I will want to right up a lot more than that.

 

My understanding of the issue with extra scrutiny of online courses was fraud by some public school athletes and coaches. And judging from the responses I get from OSU certifying an online course isn't quick. (Mind you the ps students enrolled in German Online will probably just get a German course listed on their transcript as though it were taught by a teacher in the school. Where is that brick wall smilie?)

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My goodness what other changes? Might as well dump it all on me at once. It's been a crummy dark ages blah winter anyway.

 

Ayup!

 

I knew there had to be a dark side to dd beginning competitive athletics in high school-it is her thought that she might like to continue at university.

 

I guess I'll have to leave it up to her to develop as an athlete while I start prepping the paperwork just in case...

 

Bring it on-what else needs to be done?

 

(Seriously-please do tell and thanks for the heads up!)

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I was already planning to give my coop students a good solid course description in case they need it in the future. Looks like I will want to right up a lot more than that.

 

My understanding of the issue with extra scrutiny of online courses was fraud by some public school athletes and coaches. And judging from the responses I get from OSU certifying an online course isn't quick. (Mind you the ps students enrolled in German Online will probably just get a German course listed on their transcript as though it were taught by a teacher in the school. Where is that brick wall smilie?)

 

And I'll try not to be bitter about the football player from ps with low SAT scores whose mom proudly explained that he was in the top 50% of his class. But no problem for NCAA there because he had his 400s on the SAT.

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I'm wondering if I should ask our online teachers for help with the worksheets.

I'm also wondering if there is still good chocolate in the freezer or if walking to the market would justify the calories of the giant Reese's egg I'm craving.

 

This means something like a 30 page package to submit per kid. Is the goal just to make it hard to flush out the fakers?

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And I'll try not to be bitter about the football player from ps with low SAT scores whose mom proudly explained that he was in the top 50% of his class. But no problem for NCAA there because he had his 400s on the SAT.

He was way above the threshold since he only needed 200s.

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I just got off the phone with an NCAA homeschool liaison. I was told that online classes need to be accredited.

 

According to this person, none of the online providers I asked him about have NCAA approval:

PA Homeschoolers (which I read somewhere were approved, but he said they are not)

AoPS

Memoria Press online (I am using them for Latin)

 

I am trying not to freak out.

 

I asked him if I should list myself as the Teacher of Record in these cases on the worksheets. His response was that he was not going to tell me how to "skate around the requirements." I then asked him if an AP Chemistry score of 5 and a SAT II Chemistry score of 800 would be enough evidence that the PA Homeschooler class met the NCAA academic standards. His response was that the NCAA is not concerned with the "academic outcome", so the answer is "No, the test scores would not be sufficient.

 

He did suggest that I may not want to list these classes on the transcript if I have enough other courses to satisfy the core requirements. He also said that any high school course taken before 9th grade can count as a core requirement as long as it is listed on the transcript. I asked him if the Algebra I class my son took in 6th grade would count, and he said it would. That statement contradicts what I have read on the NCAA website.

 

Again, trying not to freak out. At this point it is looking like I am going to submit a bare-bones transcript to the NCAA that is only going to include the classes studied at home...no foreign language or AP Chemistry will be listed.

 

:cursing: :svengo: :scared:

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They are requiring more academic information than any college admissions officer I have spoken with. This is really obscene. :cursing: :rant:

 

I'll end my rant now.

 

 

Obscene is a good word for it. Take a look at the Home School Information page NCAA has in the resources section. To my way of reading this it seems that they are well down the road of ruling that an online provider isn't acceptable unless they have been pre-approved by NCAA.

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I just got off the phone with an NCAA homeschool liaison. I was told that online classes need to be accredited.

 

According to this person, none of the online providers I asked him about have NCAA approval:

PA Homeschoolers (which I read somewhere were approved, but he said they are not)

AoPS

Memoria Press online (I am using them for Latin)

 

I am trying not to freak out.

 

I asked him if I should list myself as the Teacher of Record in these cases on the worksheets. His response was that he was not going to tell me how to "skate around the requirements." I then asked him if an AP Chemistry score of 5 and a SAT II Chemistry score of 800 would be enough evidence that the PA Homeschooler class met the NCAA academic standards. His response was that the NCAA is not concerned with the "academic outcome", so the answer is "No, the test scores would not be sufficient.

 

He did suggest that I may not want to list these classes on the transcript if I have enough other courses to satisfy the core requirements. He also said that any high school course taken before 9th grade can count as a core requirement as long as it is listed on the transcript. I asked him if the Algebra I class my son took in 6th grade would count, and he said it would. That statement contradicts what I have read on the NCAA website.

 

Again, trying not to freak out. At this point it is looking like I am going to submit a bare-bones transcript to the NCAA that is only going to include the classes studied at home...no foreign language or AP Chemistry will be listed.

 

:cursing: :svengo: :scared:

 

 

The Core Course listing in para 8 of Next Steps the Home School Information sheet lists foreign languages as a core course.

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Obscene is a good word for it. Take a look at the Home School Informationpage NCAA has in the resources section. To my way of reading this it seems that they are well down the road of ruling that an online provider isn't acceptable unless they have been pre-approved by NCAA.

 

:iagree:

 

Ultimately, I am in charge of issuing the transcript, and I have the authority to assign the grades. Since these online providers are not issuing any official transcripts, do the AoPS, PA Homeschoolers, and Memoria Press classes fall into the homeschool category since they meet the NCAA homeschool criteria for items 5 & 6?

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I think I will stick my head back in the sand before I become ill.

 

Forget the swimming. What about sailing? If he wants to sail for a school, will we have to follow NCAA rules?

 

You have all given me an even more warped view of athletics and high school/college than I held before. And if Sebastian is looking for chocolate... :willy_nilly:

 

I now have to call our state association and find out if it is true that ds has to take a nationally-normed test at the end of this year to be able to swim for the high school next year. Our state doesn't even require that for the academic end of things.

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His response was that the NCAA is not concerned with the "academic outcome",

 

And therein lies the problem. . .

 

At this point it is looking like I am going to submit a bare-bones transcript to the NCAA that is only going to include the classes studied at home..

 

This sounds like a plan.

 

From this link:

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/eligibility_center/Quick_Reference_Sheet.pdf

 

"Foreign languages count as part of the "four years of additional courses (from any area above, foreign language, or comparative religion/philosophy)"

 

so if you taught enough other courses at home, you wouldn't need to include any foreign languages.

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The Core Course listing in para 8 of Next Steps the Home School Information sheet lists foreign languages as a core course.

 

Yes, it is a core course, but the way it was explained to me in my phone conversation, as long as the transcript has 16 core courses listed to meet the requirement, I may not want to list classes taken by an online provider that did not have the blessing of the all-powerful NCAA.

 

I don't want to risk not having a course approved and my son not getting the NCAA approval. The NCAA is going to be receiving a bare-bones transcript comprised of all completely homeschooled classes.

 

I am going to have two completely different transcripts. One for the NCAA and the other for college admissions.

 

Have I mentioned how ridiculous I think this all is, and how much I hate the NCAA?

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Yes, it is a core course, but the way it was explained to me in my phone conversation, as long as the transcript has 16 core courses listed to meet the requirement, I may not want to list classes taken by an online provider that did not have the blessing of the all-powerful NCAA.

 

I don't want to risk not having a course approved and my son not getting the NCAA approval. The NCAA is going to be receiving a bare-bones transcript comprised of all completely homeschooled classes.

 

I am going to have two completely different transcripts. One for the NCAA and the other for college admissions.

 

Have I mentioned how ridiculous I think this all is, and how much I hate the NCAA?

 

 

Well, I'm now working my way through the groups we've used for outsourced subjects to discuss this. The first one is in the process of having courses certified, but had put it on the back burner in favor of a certification with a state virtual academy. They are hoping to be done with it in a few months. I'm not sure about the other group, since they are a mom and pop set up that probably doesn't really want to be bothered with NCAA's varsity hoop jumping drills. :banghead:

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The other advantage of only listing 16 courses is that we will only have to submit 16 worksheets. :thumbup1:

 

I am still wondering if this guy had up to date information. I really thought PA Homeschoolers had NCAA approval. If not, I guess I won't list this years math class either. It is going to be a pathetic looking transcript.

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The other advantage of only listing 16 courses is that we will only have to submit 16 worksheets. :thumbup1:

 

I am still wondering if this guy had up to date information. I really thought PA Homeschoolers had NCAA approval. If not, I guess I won't list this years math class either. It is going to be a pathetic looking transcript.

 

And when the transcript submitted to the college lists courses that weren't on the NCAA transcript . . . Will the school decide there is some kind of padding going on. Because if the course were good enough for college admissions, wouldn't it be good enough for NCAA? What are those homeschoolers trying to hide?

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And when the transcript submitted to the college lists courses that weren't on the NCAA transcript . . . Will the school decide there is some kind of padding going on. Because if the course were good enough for college admissions, wouldn't it be good enough for NCAA? What are those homeschoolers trying to hide?

 

I hadn't thought of that. We are taking oldest on a college tour next fall. This will be a good question for him to ask the coaches and admissions. I really don't think it will be a problem, but we should double-check.

 

I was planning to state in my homeschool profile that the transcript submitted to the NCAA is a bare-bones transcript with only the 16 NCAA core-courses listed in order to achieve eligibility. I was also planning on stating that the NCAA transcript would be available upon request.

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And when the transcript submitted to the college lists courses that weren't on the NCAA transcript . . . Will the school decide there is some kind of padding going on. Because if the course were good enough for college admissions, wouldn't it be good enough for NCAA? What are those homeschoolers trying to hide?

 

Since she received her appointment before the end of the school year (when the NCAA wants their transcript) I doubt if admissions will talk to the NCAA. If they do, I'd be happy to explain, at length, what the issue is.

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I think I will stick my head back in the sand before I become ill.

 

Forget the swimming. What about sailing? If he wants to sail for a school, will we have to follow NCAA rules?

 

You have all given me an even more warped view of athletics and high school/college than I held before. And if Sebastian is looking for chocolate... :willy_nilly:

 

I now have to call our state association and find out if it is true that ds has to take a nationally-normed test at the end of this year to be able to swim for the high school next year. Our state doesn't even require that for the academic end of things.

 

One thing to remember is that right now, these reqs are only for Division I and II schools. My dd added two Div III schools to her list last week and it was a happy moment for me! lol

 

I know nothing about sailing, but for swimming you need to have all of your ducks in a row before the summer after his junior year. You need to get your best times that year, if you can. I personally haven't known any Div I or II swimmers recruited and signed through anything but US Swim or YMCA, but ymmv! Of course there are walk-ons at some schools, a high school swimmer here that my dd swam against this high school season who is currently only on a high school team (note: we have a homeschool swim team) is a walk-on at one of the big Unis in FL - pretty impressive, actually.

 

During the summer between the Jr and Sr year he can be "recruited" but the reality is most swimmers are already fairly sure were they will be going by then. Conventional wisdom, heeded by the people we have seen who have been successful, lol, is that the swimmer needs to look at the school first, of course, and then the team. Last year a girl from our team with Jr. Nat cuts crashed and burned because she chose the team that most heavily recruited her and the school was not a good fit at all.

 

You can go to the school websites and fill out the interest forms there to let the coaches know that you are, well, interested, or if he swims at one of the national competitions (like YNats or JrNats) then they may come to you!

 

The school website will have results from meets so you can get an idea of what the school is looking for and if his times will be a fit at the school. I have been surprised at how good some of the swim teams are at some of the schools that are highly ranked academically. (except USCGA, bless their hearts, one might be surprised the other way with them... :)

 

And honestly, I wouldn't sweat it. Basically your NCAA transcript needs to be as generic and boring as possible. It will not look at ALL like the transcript you do for applying to actual colleges. She is doing Anatomy with Holes; I knew that one would be a piece of cake since it is used frequently and it is very conventional. But, she is also doing LLoTR. LToW, TC Linguistics and a whole lot of other weird, cool stuff for English this year. On the transcript it reads English 3. We also used a couple of textbooks (that I guessed would already be approved) so that is what is listed as what we used.

 

It never occurred to me to put online classes or co-op as anything but a generic class because the list of accredited providers is pretty small and no place without a B&M school is going to ever be approved as a "cover school" that issues a diploma, etc. This has been discussed here frequently.

 

So she did PreCalc online. But I just listed it as Precalc. Wrote a generic description. Listed the book. I'm the teacher 'cause I never am not involved (if only :glare:). I give the final grade, I make the transcript, and it's my school. Maybe this is wrong??? but it's kind of late now, so I'm not sure if I should feel guilty or not!

 

It is a giant pain but you can do it! Just keep records, good records. I saw one kid who did not fill out his paperwork until the start of his senior year (long story, lol) and he got a very nice offer at a small Div I school where he rocked the pool. His mom was a genius record keeper. :laugh:

 

I'm working on 2 hours of sleep so this may or may not be helpful, but let's hope it fairly accurate, anyway, lol,

Georgia

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And when the transcript submitted to the college lists courses that weren't on the NCAA transcript . . . Will the school decide there is some kind of padding going on. Because if the course were good enough for college admissions, wouldn't it be good enough for NCAA? What are those homeschoolers trying to hide?

 

Well, no one I have ever known has ever had a problem with this. It is common to just do the transcript as generically as possible and that is what the NCAA guy has told me to do over the phone. The college, to my knowledge never sees any of that stuff, though now I am a little freaked out, lol.

 

But I am still continuing to do it that way, lol.

 

Georgia

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It never occurred to me to put online classes or co-op as anything but a generic class because the list of accredited providers is pretty small and no place without a B&M school is going to ever be approved as a "cover school" that issues a diploma, etc. This has been discussed here frequently.

 

So she did PreCalc online. But I just listed it as Precalc. Wrote a generic description. Listed the book. I'm the teacher 'cause I never am not involved (if only :glare:). I give the final grade, I make the transcript, and it's my school. Maybe this is wrong??? but it's kind of late now, so I'm not sure if I should feel guilty or not!

 

It is a giant pain but you can do it! Just keep records, good records. I saw one kid who did not fill out his paperwork until the start of his senior year (long story, lol) and he got a very nice offer at a small Div I school where he rocked the pool. His mom was a genius record keeper. :laugh:

 

I'm working on 2 hours of sleep so this may or may not be helpful, but let's hope it fairly accurate, anyway, lol,

Georgia

Georgia, did you use this approach with these new worksheets? Prior to seeing the worksheets, I was planning to do exactly what you described. These new worksheets make me a little uneasy about using this approach. But like you said, I do give the final grade and make the transcript.

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Since she received her appointment before the end of the school year (when the NCAA wants their transcript) I doubt if admissions will talk to the NCAA. If they do, I'd be happy to explain, at length, what the issue is.

 

OK, you made me laugh.

 

I've spoken with or emailed our outside course providers. I also sent a note to the president of the homeschool sports team our cross country runner competes with. I'm holding off on calling NCAA because I honestly think I'd be too steamed at the moment.

 

I will probably ask our swim coach if there is someone from the team who can sit down with me and talk college app process. It may well be that ds Rutabaga doesn't every get times that would make this matter. On the other hand, our team is on the low end of large team and one of the team owners is on a few of the USA Swimming boards, so it may be a discussion worth having, just so that she understands the challenges for homeschool athletes on the team.

 

And now, I need to go and get lunch and drive my kids through their math and science and Latin and German and everything else.

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Georgia, did you use this approach with these new worksheets? Prior to seeing the worksheets, I was planning to do exactly what you described. These new worksheets make me a little uneasy about using this approach. But like you said, I do give the final grade and make the transcript.

 

 

This is where my concern is as well. But maybe that's because I'm the type of person who reads through patient discarge sheets and crosses off the references to information not provided or proceedures not performed, because I don't want to put my signature on something that isn't correct. And it strikes me that the worksheets are designed to catch people using resources that are not completely home brewed in order to call them nontraditional and potentially not acceptable courses. (Or it is an effor to bring outside curriculum providers in line. Which I think is somewhat unnecessary.)

 

I suppose I can create a course where the outside course is a portion of the grade and home discussion, additional assessments, study for additional assessments etc is part of the total course and I provide the end grade.. But it does frustrate me.

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Georgia, did you use this approach with these new worksheets? Prior to seeing the worksheets, I was planning to do exactly what you described. These new worksheets make me a little uneasy about using this approach. But like you said, I do give the final grade and make the transcript.

 

Yep, cause I was late getting her stuff in. We were using Kolbe but for some reason she hated that (not the work, just the idea or something, she's a quirky kid), so we are doing it as loners. Except now of course she mentions that USCGA is back on the table so maybe we better re-sign with Kolbe. Sigh.

 

 

This is where my concern is as well. But maybe that's because I'm the type of person who reads through patient discarge sheets and crosses off the references to information not provided or proceedures not performed, because I don't want to put my signature on something that isn't correct. And it strikes me that the worksheets are designed to catch people using resources that are not completely home brewed in order to call them nontraditional and potentially not acceptable courses. (Or it is an effor to bring outside curriculum providers in line. Which I think is somewhat unnecessary.)

 

I suppose I can create a course where the outside course is a portion of the grade and home discussion, additional assessments, study for additional assessments etc is part of th e total course and I provide the end grade.. But it does frustrate me.

 

I have NEVER managed to have her do a course, online, co-op or whatever where we didn't add stuff. Maybe it's because so far the offerings have been pretty marginal. :glare: So I guess I don't have to feel guilty, lol. Now next year she will have a courses at the CC but those are a whole different ballgame NCAA-wise (and I am PRAYING I do not have to add anything to them!).

 

Now if she took, say a PA Homeschoolers AP class, I'm not sure what I would do. If I did some combo of working with her, discussions, monitoring her study times, doing the labs with her, helping her with the test prep and then she took the test (maybe that would be part of the grade??) then I think I could legitimately list myself as the teacher.

 

I don't know what I would do if I literally had no interaction with her and the class material. That's a quandary, to be sure.

 

But this new stuff is SO ridiculous that I am leaning toward saying I would just fill them out and go on with my life. That might not be very honest though. :o

 

sorry that is not much help,

Georgia

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Georgia in NC, thanks so much for the info. I made a few more calls this morning with long-time swim friends with older kids and was heavily encouraged to keep ds NCAA eligible. I can't see him being remotely competitive without returning to his former USA Swim club, but one friend pointed out that her son went through roughly the same scenario as far as an injury and he decided to return to swimming full-time his junior year. He is now swimming in college and having a great time.

 

Also, for anyone whose child is attending a b & m high school, but could possibly return home full or part-time, check with your state school activities association before you do anything. We nearly disqualified ds from athletic participation because he made the transition mid-year during the swim season. He had to be registered with five courses - the fifth was a counselor's aid position- in order to show as a full-time student. The course was dropped the minute districts were over and he was then registered as a homeschooler. This is a rather complicated dance.

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Yep, cause I was late getting her stuff in. We were using Kolbe but for some reason she hated that (not the work, just the idea or something, she's a quirky kid), so we are doing it as loners. Except now of course she mentions that USCGA is back on the table so maybe we better resign with Kolbe. Sigh.

 

 

 

 

I have NEVER managed to have her do a course, online, co-op or whatever where we didn't add stuff. Maybe it's because so far the offerings have been pretty marginal. :glare: So I don't feel guilty, lol. Now next year she will have a courses at the CC but those are ok and I am PRAYING I do not have to add anything. and of course that is a whole different ballgame.

 

Now if she took, say a PA Homeschoolers AP class, I'm not sure what I would do. If I did some combo of working with her, discussions, monitoring her study times, doing the labs with her, helping her with the test prep and then she took the test (maybe that would be part of the grade??) then I think I could legitimately list myself as the teacher.

 

I dunno what I would do if I literally had no interaction with her and the class material. That's a quandary, for sure.

 

sorry that is not much help,

Georgia

 

 

Georgia, what happens if you audit the course at PA Homeschoolers? I was going to have ds take AP European History, but when I saw that the application required SAT, PSAT, and other standardized scores and an outside teacher recommendation (ds is 9th grade), I wasn't sure we could make it. My thought is to have him audit the course. He does all the same work, participates in discussions, but I have to do the grading, which would meet the NCAA's requirements, right?

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Georgia in NC, thanks so much for the info. I made a few more calls this morning with long-time swim friends with older kids and was heavily encouraged to keep ds NCAA eligible. I can't see him being remotely competitive without returning to his former USA Swim club, but one friend pointed out that her son went through roughly the same scenario as far as an injury and he decided to return to swimming full-time his junior year. He is now swimming in college and having a great time.

 

 

Everyone can swim somewhere is my motto. So definitely always, always keep your options open and be realistically** optimistic!

 

My youngest only swims 3x a week on a (basically) rec league, team and she has B/BB times. She has a knee issue, is sort of lazy and doesn't like any events except 100/200 back. She still has better times than all but one of the girls on the Div III team at the pretty little LAC we swam at a few weeks ago... LOL And they seemed like really nice, fun girls, too.

 

**I say this because it is a little startling how many swim parents we know think that their kids are going to get full rides to big Div I schools or go to the Olympics when the kid is already 16/17 and has never had one AA cut, lol. Begin realistic is also a good thing is sports, kwim? My older is good enough to get interest letters from swims at YNats already, but realistically she is not going to swim at Stanford, etc. unless she really, really, really drops some serious time in the next 3-4 months.

 

But she can't wait to swim somewhere, no matter the division!

 

I can't wait to NEVER, EVER have to hear the words "NCAA Eligibility" again...

 

 

Swim fast,

Georgia

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Everyone can swim somewhere is my motto. So definitely always, always keep your options open and be realistically** optimistic!

 

My youngest only swims 3x a week on a (basically) rec league, team and she has B/BB times. She has a knee issue, is sort of lazy and doesn't like any events except 100/200 back. She still has better times than all but one of the girls on the Div III team at the pretty little LAC we swam at a few weeks ago... LOL And they seemed like really nice, fun girls, too.

 

**I say this because it is a little startling how many swim parents we know think that their kids are going to get full rides to big Div I schools or go to the Olympics when the kid is already 16/17 and has never had one AA cut, lol. Begin realistic is also a good thing is sports, kwim? My older is good enough to get interest letters from swims at YNats already, but realistically she is not going to swim at Stanford, etc. unless she really, really, really drops some serious time in the next 3-4 months.

 

But she can't wait to swim somewhere, no matter the division!

 

I can't wait to NEVER, EVER have to hear the words "NCAA Eligibility" again...

 

 

Swim fast,

Georgia

 

 

Yours is a lovely and refreshing outlook. I have few illusions about my son getting any money for swimming. He is now earning some b and bb times. But I think he's more excited to just not swim in the first heat of his races.

 

But I also think that he'd really benefit from swimming throughout his adult life so I want to keep doors open while staying rational. And while he didn't make JO cuts I'm thrilled to pieces everytime one of the young sets he helped in summer league wants to be on HIS winter team or say hi in Walmart. He's a good hearted kid. Which is part of why things like the wringer of NCAA worksheets or being snubbed by the state sports org as homeschooler and not bona fided students is something of a sucker punch.

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Georgia, what happens if you audit the course at PA Homeschoolers? I was going to have ds take AP European History, but when I saw that the application required SAT, PSAT, and other standardized scores and an outside teacher recommendation (ds is 9th grade), I wasn't sure we could make it. My thought is to have him audit the course. He does all the same work, participates in discussions, but I have to do the grading, which would meet the NCAA's requirements, right?

 

 

 

I would think that was genius. Didn't know you could do that!

 

I would though, remember that the colleges themselves like outside verification of mommy grades. So maybe another year take a class to get the "grade" from them (one you don't need to transcript for the NCAA paper-pushers, lol)?

 

That is why my dd is taking classes at the crappy CC next year (and SAT II's this year), verification. It's vastly irritating that what the colleges want to see is more or less in direct opposition to what NCAA wants.

 

I need a nap!

 

Georgia

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I just got off the phone with an NCAA homeschool liaison. I was told that online classes need to be accredited.

 

According to this person, none of the online providers I asked him about have NCAA approval:

PA Homeschoolers (which I read somewhere were approved, but he said they are not)

AoPS

Memoria Press online (I am using them for Latin)

 

I am trying not to freak out.

 

I asked him if I should list myself as the Teacher of Record in these cases on the worksheets. His response was that he was not going to tell me how to "skate around the requirements." I then asked him if an AP Chemistry score of 5 and a SAT II Chemistry score of 800 would be enough evidence that the PA Homeschooler class met the NCAA academic standards. His response was that the NCAA is not concerned with the "academic outcome", so the answer is "No, the test scores would not be sufficient.

 

He did suggest that I may not want to list these classes on the transcript if I have enough other courses to satisfy the core requirements. He also said that any high school course taken before 9th grade can count as a core requirement as long as it is listed on the transcript. I asked him if the Algebra I class my son took in 6th grade would count, and he said it would. That statement contradicts what I have read on the NCAA website.

 

Again, trying not to freak out. At this point it is looking like I am going to submit a bare-bones transcript to the NCAA that is only going to include the classes studied at home...no foreign language or AP Chemistry will be listed.

 

:cursing: :svengo: :scared:

 

 

I just checked and PA Homeschoolers does say their courses are approved as core courses by NCAA. http://www.pahomeschoolers.com/phaa.html

But the link to the list of approved courses is dead when I try to see which classes.

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Is there a listing of the textbooks approved by the NCAA on their website somewhere or do you just submit the info and keep your fingers crossed? (It's the Great Books reading program that we did at home but used their books/manual etc that I'm wondering about specifically.)

 

Also....NCAA is for all divisions I, II, and III - right?

 

Myra

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Everyone can swim somewhere is my motto. So definitely always, always keep your options open and be realistically** optimistic!

 

My youngest only swims 3x a week on a (basically) rec league, team and she has B/BB times. She has a knee issue, is sort of lazy and doesn't like any events except 100/200 back. She still has better times than all but one of the girls on the Div III team at the pretty little LAC we swam at a few weeks ago... LOL And they seemed like really nice, fun girls, too.

 

**I say this because it is a little startling how many swim parents we know think that their kids are going to get full rides to big Div I schools or go to the Olympics when the kid is already 16/17 and has never had one AA cut, lol. Begin realistic is also a good thing is sports, kwim? My older is good enough to get interest letters from swims at YNats already, but realistically she is not going to swim at Stanford, etc. unless she really, really, really drops some serious time in the next 3-4 months.

 

But she can't wait to swim somewhere, no matter the division!

 

I can't wait to NEVER, EVER have to hear the words "NCAA Eligibility" again...

 

 

Swim fast,

Georgia

 

I like your motto and if anyone knows about being "realistic" when it comes to swimming expectations, it would be my son. :lol: His best friend, from the time ds started officially on swim team, is the youngest of a serious swim family with an older sibling who has swam at Nationals and Olympic Trials. Ds has had an up close and personal look at what it takes to get money to swim Div. I. He has AA cuts and even then, with a full-time return to club swimming, it wouldn't be enough. But, as you say, he could swim "somewhere" and that would be good. He thinks he wants a top tier school for academics. I think he wants a smaller "college that changes your life."

 

It will be exciting to hear hear where your dd decides to go. The same family I mentioned up above has an older daughter who was always a good swimmer, but not nearly the same caliber is the younger one. She chose her college based on her desires and then found she could walk onto the swim team. She had a blast. That's kind of what I would be looking for for ds - I think.

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I just checked and PA Homeschoolers does say their courses are approved as core courses by NCAA. http://www.pahomesch...s.com/phaa.html

But the link to the list of approved courses is dead when I try to see which classes.

I am wondering if the online classes are accredited, or if only the program that grants a high school diploma is accredited.

 

I would like to think that when I call an organization, I can trust the information I am given, but some of what I was told this morning just makes no sense to me. I am having a hard time believing that the NCAA would approve a course taken in 6th grade, even if it was a high school level course.

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Is there a listing of the textbooks approved by the NCAA on their website somewhere or do you just submit the info and keep your fingers crossed? (It's the Great Books reading program that we did at home but used their books/manual etc that I'm wondering about specifically.)

 

Also....NCAA is for all divisions I, II, and III - right?

 

Myra

 

This is only applicable for Div I & II.

 

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/eligibility/becoming+eligible/academic+standards

 

Division III doesn't have reqs set by NCAA and they don't give scholarships for athletics. I have no idea what NAIA does either.

 

Georgia

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Is there a listing of the textbooks approved by the NCAA on their website somewhere or do you just submit the info and keep your fingers crossed? (It's the Great Books reading program that we did at home but used their books/manual etc that I'm wondering about specifically.)

 

Also....NCAA is for all divisions I, II, and III - right?

 

Myra

I asked this question regarding textbook approval last year when I called the NCAA. I don't know if things have changed since then, but at that time I was told that as long as the textbook is at a high school level (or higher) the textbook would be acceptable to the NCAA.

 

I am not worried about my textbooks getting approved. My concern is with the online classes my kids are taking and their lack of NCAA approval. The fact that the NCAA will not accept an online AoPS class, nor will they accept College Board test scores to demonstrate that an online class was effective is just mind-boggling to me.

 

It clearly is not about the actual education our kids are receiving. I wonder if an online provider has to pay a fee to the NCAA in order to receive NCAA accreditation.

 

Only students who plan on playing a Div I or Div. II sport in college need to jump through these ridiculous hoops.

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Everyone can swim somewhere is my motto.

 

Here's a break-down of times for the various divisions of college swimming. It's a little flexible - I had a guy on the high school team (who had never swum before high school) who walked on to a Div III team with a 1:12 100 Free and is doing great. By Christmas, he was down to a 1:01.

 

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/swimmingscholarships.htm

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Here's a break-down of times for the various divisions of college swimming. It's a little flexible - I had a guy on the high school team (who had never swum before high school) who walked on to a Div III team with a 1:12 100 Free and is doing great. By Christmas, he was down to a 1:01.

 

http://www.athletics...cholarships.htm

 

Thank you, this is very helpful.

 

I like to hear stories like the one above. I had the privilege of watching our neighbor boy make the A finals at district in the 100 Fly. He started on the C squad his freshman year and could barely swim. This year as a senior, he swam all varsity races and was the only non-club swimmer in that final round. He was also a team captain. He was so squirrely when he was little, his mom thought he would never go on to college. He is taking advanced math and sciences courses and has some nice AP scores under his belt. Did I mention he is an Eagle Scout? The Marines are going to love him when he gets out of college.

 

The boy knows how to work like a dog and then some. I try not to hold him up too often as a poster child for a strong work ethic. :D

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