Joyful_Journey Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I started my 7th grade DD on Analytical Grammar this year. While she is doing fine with it, I don't think either one of us has been thrilled with it. In my ideal world, I would have a grammar program that is thorough and includes diagramming (just not as much as AG requires). Hake seems to fit the bill, but I'm wondering if there is anyone who has used Hake and found it lacking. Is there a decent amount of diagramming? Do you feel like your kids retain the info? Do you like it???? I would be using it for grammar only since she is happy with WWS for writing. The other alternative is Voyages in English, so I would also love to hear feedback if you have experience with it (diagramming, retention, etc.). TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 We have used both. They are both solid programs, so it is basically a matter of personal preference. We are using Hake 7 and plan to continue with Hake 8. Yes, there is a decent amount of diagramming. Hake has plenty of review (WendyK makes some pretty funny comments about the amount of review in Hake ;) .) There is so much review that we skip almost all of it. If retention is an issue, Hake would be an excellent chocie. Each review question has a small number beside it telling the student in which lesson the concept was taught. The lesson can then easily be reviewed, if needed. This also encourages independence with the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I've used ViE 3-4 and will continue with it. We like it. I did recently consider Hake only because it is cheaper. Here is my thread asking about that: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/448348-hake-for-5th-instead-of-continuing-with-voyages-in-english-seeking-input-from-hake-users/page__hl__%2B5th. We are sticking with ViE because it is well-liked by my (visual) kids, gets done in 10-15 minutes a day (we do all TB work orally), and includes just the right amount of review and diagramming for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful_Journey Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 Well at least it sounds as if I'll end up with a decent program no matter which way I go - that is always a good feeling! :hurray: I like having review built in (thanks for the heads up on cutting back on some of the Hake review if we go in that direction). Alte Veste Academy - does VIE also have built in review? I can see from their table of contents online that they organize their chapters around major parts of speech (i.e., nouns, verbs, pronouns). Does the student have any review from previous chapters in either the daily lesson or at the end of a chapter? My dd doesn't need much review since she is strong in language arts, but my ds coming behind her benefits from review to help him cement concepts. I would love to go with a program that can somehow work for both types of learners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Alte Veste Academy - does VIE also have built in review? I can see from their table of contents online that they organize their chapters around major parts of speech (i.e., nouns, verbs, pronouns). Does the student have any review from previous chapters in either the daily lesson or at the end of a chapter? Yes, there is a short "daily maintenance" for the student to practice earlier concepts. They are short, sweet, and effective. A sentence is given and questions about those sentence follow. The questions vary, but the last part is always diagramming the sentence. You can actually preview the entire practice book for grades 7-8 here. http://www.loyolapress.com/voyages-in-english-2011-grammar-and-writing-view-samples.htm I also basically use the assessment books as review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful_Journey Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Oh, I see it now! I was looking inside the student book rather than the assessment book. Thanks for clearing it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Oh, I see it now! I was looking inside the student book rather than the assessment book. Thanks for clearing it up! Yes, the student text basically has the big lesson, which I teach orally. The practice book is a workbook that has a worksheet for every lesson and the daily maintenance assignments (grouped altogether at the beginning of each section and numbered to correspond with each lesson's worksheet). The assessment book has tests. I barely look at my teacher's guides and doubt I will purchase them in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful_Journey Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 So really the teacher's guide isn't necessary for VIE? You can just purchase the answer key for the practice book and assessments as well as the student textbook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 You can buy a practice/assessment key. There is no separate key for the student text; those answers are in the teacher's edition. So far, I have never needed to look at any answers. Yay, me! LOL Maybe someday... If I ever feel I need the TG as we continue, I will buy it. But for now, that is a huge chunk of change for something that just takes up shelf space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I love Hake. My son started using it in 5th grade and is now using the 7th grade book. There is a lot of repetition each year and that has been great for helping him with retention. He is now our grammar guru. There are 2 or 3 sentences a day to be diagrammed. To me, that is enough. My dd started using Hake 5 this year and I've been happy with it for her as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful_Journey Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Of the two, I like Hake better and so do my older 2 guys. They like that they do not need me to teach them. It has plenty of review which both need. We also like the writing portion. (After trying out IEW, WWE/WWS, WS, Jump In!, and everything else under the sun.) I seriously considered VIE but decided against it for several reasons. The first is just the cost. I cannot justify spending +$50 on a grammar book for each kid (they cannot share). I do not like the writing. Have you considered Exercises in Eglish alone? I've taken a look at Exercises in English, but I think at least one of my kids would need more teaching than the short instruction provided at the top of the page. I also think having daily or weekly review helps. I'm going to spend some time pouring over the Hake and VIE samples online. Many thanks to everyone for giving their feedback. Looking at online samples is helpful, but hearing personal experiences is even better! : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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