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If you were to set up a secular homeschool support group in your area...


AimeeM
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What would your policies look like?

 

First, I do belong to a local Catholic co-op and I *love* them. They are more of a formal co-op, however, and I'm looking into starting more of a "support" group. I plan to stay with my co-op.

 

The last one I tried to put together was a fail - it was TOO diverse (in terms of homeschool methods, backgrounds, age of the kids - many were only homeschooling preschool, etc). I know that sounds horrible. Truth be told, while I want a secular group where people of all backgrounds can come together, there needs to be some exclusion I'm afraid. This simply isn't always a tolerant area.

 

Some things that DID work well last time:

- Religious discussion is allowed and encouraged; no conversion attempts. One warning - after that, you are asked (told) to leave the group. We didn't want to leave out faith; we wanted to help build tolerance and disallowing any religious conversation would have done more harm than good I think. This actually worked great and we had a religiously diverse crowd.

 

Okay, so that's really the only thing that worked well.

 

What DIDN'T work well:

- All homeschoolers are welcome no matter their philosophy. Epic FAIL. Everyone ambushed newbs. I wanted to cry. Seriously. I do NOT want to ban talk of methods or curriculum obviously - that would defeat the purpose of a support group. I'm afraid I need to limit the "type" of homeschooler.

- Allowing all ages. We had SO MANY who were only homeschooling preschool. Many meetings looked like a giant MOPS group.

- Trying to do any organized classes. Too many different ideas on what makes a good education, what everyone wanted from the classes, and very few willing to help out; leaving the leader (me) to do all the leg work. Not doable for me.

- Asking everyone what they wanted from the group. I'm just not going to write the ways this was a bad idea. Lol.

 

This time 'round, I'd like a support group - not anything resembling a wannabe co-op. Just a support group that meets maybe once a week for informal times when the kids can socialize and we can chit chat.

 

So can The Hive help me with this? Pretty please?

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I would say:

similar homeschool philosophy. they need to have something in common, and that's a biggie.

everyone should be respectful of different beliefs. (just as religious types shouldn't try to convert, seculars shouldn't be allowed to bash either. and even among seculars there are different beliefs.)

 

I was on a secular classical homeschool site and a religious classical homeschool site. they used the exact. same. material. Both were bashing each other. it was a joke, they both needed to grow up, and I quit both. I wanted to point out to them that they were doing exactly the same thing as what they were condeming, just from the other direction. but then . .. don't try and teach a pig to sing.

 

eta: I would absolutely disallow preschool UNLESS they have siblings who are at least in first grade or above. (otherwise, it is just a mops group.)

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I wouldn't encourage religious talk at all. If it's secular, it's secular. And no religion-bashing, either. Tolerance of all. Preaching to no one.

 

People can talk about whatever they want in private conversations, but during group meetings.... nope.

Religious discussion being allowed was the one thing that DID work across the board, lol.

Perhaps secular is the wrong word - maybe "all faith (or non faith) inclusive group" would be a better way to word it.

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I might even go further and say something like "your oldest homeschooled child must be at least 7 years of age, regardless of grade level." Otherwise you'll still end up with a bunch of people claiming their 4-year-old is actually in first grade so they should be included.

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We had an issue with being overrun by preschool homeschoolers in our group. We finally had to make the requirement that you had to be homeschooling at least one school aged child as defined by the state homeschooling laws.

 

Is this an issue because the focus of the meetings needs to be more academic rather than social? I don't understand why preschool moms should be excluded (though it's your right to say what kind of people you want in the group based on your goals) from being in a group with moms of older children.

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There is supposed to be an inclusive group here, but well, not so welcoming, but the few times I went I had the opposite problem. Most were teens. So I would maybe have an age range. Or split it for activities.

There were also lots of unschoolers (not my style) or people who only used boxed curriculum or who used PS online academies, so talking about curriculum or methods was not possible most of the time, as many with kids my ages were doing the box or online thing. So I would absolutely define it as "classical" or the like. Here I would define it as those operating under their own Private school affidavit even (or whatever that looks like in your state, i.e. independent) and then you could further define it as a classical or living books group.

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The homeschool groups that I've been to are just homeschool groups. They aren't religious, they aren't exclusively secular, there's no restriction on who can come (preschoolers, teens, etc.). People talk about whatever they want, to whoever they want. It's really just like a playgroup.

Maybe its because the groups are very informal. One group meets at a certain park on Friday mornings. There's a PE class there and you can sign up for classes or just come to the park to play.

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The group we attended last year had to add a rule that all children must be potty trained and use a potty. From what I understand, they had a member who let her child pee freely where ever he wanted. It became mostly preschoolers. The group of moms that we attend now have simple rules. Show up on time, yell at your kids to behave, bring food and use the trash can. If you disagree with any of the rules don't come. It is a nice group and the women are a hoot. We meet only for support not for classes. BTW- last week was week of the cupcake.

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Is this an issue because the focus of the meetings needs to be more academic rather than social? I don't understand why preschool moms should be excluded (though it's your right to say what kind of people you want in the group based on your goals) from being in a group with moms of older children.

Main issue for us:

Many were homeschooling preschool only because they didn't qualify for low income headstart; not out of a desire to homeschool. This meant that they largely had no desire to talk about, or commiserate about, homeschooling - they wanted to treat it as a playdate for preschoolers. This often had a negative flip effect and said preschool mom felt left out while the rest of us were chatting about homeschooling or life in general (as homeschool moms).

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I thought about it a lot that we called this group "secular"--it really wasn't, in the sense that religion did enter into the conversations, often just by the nature of the curriculum that we were using. We didn't talk *about* religion, but nobody had a cow if it came up. I think "faith inclusive" or "inclusive" might have been a better phrase. "Secular" excludes religion, and we definitely did not do that.

 

That was a neat group, wasn't it, Jean? I was sorry you came in rather late in its existence...you added so much to the group.

 

I miss the group. It was my "teacher's inservice" as well as my "teacher's lounge"!

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Main issue for us:

Many were homeschooling preschool only because they didn't qualify for low income headstart; not out of a desire to homeschool. This meant that they largely had no desire to talk about, or commiserate about, homeschooling - they wanted to treat it as a playdate for preschoolers. This often had a negative flip effect and said preschool mom felt left out while the rest of us were chatting about homeschooling or life in general (as homeschool moms).

 

Ah, I can understand that. I don't know why a preschool mom would join a homeschooling group rather than a playgroup if she wasn't intending on continuing to homeschool so it didn't cross my mind that way. Much like the joining a homeschool group to evangelize rather than talk about homeschooling doesn't make sense to me.

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Jean / Patty Joanna -

 

Do you have any local group recommendations? We're in out 5th year, but I just can't seem to find the right fit. You can PM if you would rather.

 

I can tell you right now that I don't have any recommendations. We haven't done any co-ops with the kids. And I don't know of anything like the Eastside Classical Homeschoolers since it disbanded.

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The trouble with banning specific 'types' is that you can often have some sharp, on the ball unschoolers and some flakey, unreliable curriculum followers. Some laid-back born-agains or 'evangelical' athiests. Families dont always fit stereotypes and you want adaptable folks who want to learn and are willing to work. Banning a particular type of homeschooler doesn't weed out the folks who do what they want, when they want, without a regard for the program.

 

I like the way our co-op is run. It's inclusive. It's held in a church so we have classrooms. Each parent is responsible for teaching or co-teaching a class. If you teach, you choose the topic, age range, class-size limit, and materials fees. There are NO drop-offs. There is a staffed nursery (this can be your 'teaching' position) that is used ONLY for the children of teachers during the hour they are teaching. Everyone has lunch together (that's the most chaotic part.)

 

We're submitting our proposals for next year's classes. Soon we'll fill out interest forms to get an idea of which proposed classes folks want. You can submit Underwater Basket Weaving, but if nobody is interested, you won't teach that class. Because it's up to the teachers, the offerings are different each year. You can attend one class, or all 5 hours. They try to make sure there are at least two choices per age group per hour. The age ranges are roughly Nursery, Preschool, Lower Elm, Upper Elm., Middle School, and High School.

 

I can say I want to teach Storytime for 4-6 year olds, have a class no larger than 10, and the fee is $25/per child/per semester. I'll get a co-teacher and proceed from there. I can also assign homework and make it clear that anyone who misses 3 assignments is ousted from class. (OK, that doesn't happen in this age range.)

 

The offerings ARE different each year, but since you know before summer, you can plan your year accordingly. I like that the parents remain on-site and EVERYONE is invested in teaching (or co-teaching) a class. This weeds out the flakes and slackers of any 'type.' Each family also signs up for three chores per year.

 

Some classes have wider age ranges than others, but it's worked out nicely the three years we've done this. Next year will be our 4th. I've been teaching two bellydance classes each year. One for ages 8-10 and one that is middle school and older. My son has taken a science class there each year because that's my favorite thing to outsource :-) I can usually count on co-op to take 2-3 classes off my plate planning-wise. (I still have to oversee homework and projects.)

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I can tell you right now that I don't have any recommendations. We haven't done any co-ops with the kids. And I don't know of anything like the Eastside Classical Homeschoolers since it disbanded.

 

 

Thank You. We participated in Labyrinth for awhile, but it was hard to find classes that worked for all the kids. I'd love to meet more people that lived in the area. Boys the same age as mine seem to be a rarity.

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I already belong to a co-op and have no interest in leading or starting another. I'm more in this for a support/social atmosphere.

Your ideas are great though! It sounds like your co-op works really well!

The trouble with banning specific 'types' is that you can often have some sharp, on the ball unschoolers and some flakey, unreliable curriculum followers. Some laid-back born-agains or 'evangelical' athiests. Families dont always fit stereotypes and you want adaptable folks who want to learn and are willing to work. Banning a particular type of homeschooler doesn't weed out the folks who do what they want, when they want, without a regard for the program.

 

I like the way our co-op is run. It's inclusive. It's held in a church so we have classrooms. Each parent is responsible for teaching or co-teaching a class. If you teach, you choose the topic, age range, class-size limit, and materials fees. There are NO drop-offs. There is a staffed nursery (this can be your 'teaching' position) that is used ONLY for the children of teachers during the hour they are teaching. Everyone has lunch together (that's the most chaotic part.)

 

We're submitting our proposals for next year's classes. Soon we'll fill out interest forms to get an idea of which proposed classes folks want. You can submit Underwater Basket Weaving, but if nobody is interested, you won't teach that class. Because it's up to the teachers, the offerings are different each year. You can attend one class, or all 5 hours. They try to make sure there are at least two choices per age group per hour. The age ranges are roughly Nursery, Preschool, Lower Elm, Upper Elm., Middle School, and High School.

 

I can say I want to teach Storytime for 4-6 year olds, have a class no larger than 10, and the fee is $25/per child/per semester. I'll get a co-teacher and proceed from there. I can also assign homework and make it clear that anyone who misses 3 assignments is ousted from class. (OK, that doesn't happen in this age range.)

 

The offerings ARE different each year, but since you know before summer, you can plan your year accordingly. I like that the parents remain on-site and EVERYONE is invested in teaching (or co-teaching) a class. This weeds out the flakes and slackers of any 'type.' Each family also signs up for three chores per year.

 

Some classes have wider age ranges than others, but it's worked out nicely the three years we've done this. Next year will be our 4th. I've been teaching two bellydance classes each year. One for ages 8-10 and one that is middle school and older. My son has taken a science class there each year because that's my favorite thing to outsource :-) I can usually count on co-op to take 2-3 classes off my plate planning-wise. (I still have to oversee homework and projects.)

 

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I already belong to a co-op and have no interest in leading or starting another. I'm more in this for a support/social atmosphere.

Your ideas are great though! It sounds like your co-op works really well!

 

 

If it's mainly social, does it really matter if you have a set of rules? Does it have to be a "formal" group, or can it just be something like a Yahoo group where people post when there's something fun going on, or the group founder sets up a Mom's Night Out or a regular park date and lets everyone know about it?

 

I'm not sure what your goals are for the group.

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What DIDN'T work well:

- All homeschoolers are welcome no matter their philosophy. Epic FAIL. Everyone ambushed newbs. I wanted to cry. Seriously. I do NOT want to ban talk of methods or curriculum obviously - that would defeat the purpose of a support group. I'm afraid I need to limit the "type" of homeschooler.

- Allowing all ages. We had SO MANY who were only homeschooling preschool. Many meetings looked like a giant MOPS group.

- Trying to do any organized classes. Too many different ideas on what makes a good education, what everyone wanted from the classes, and very few willing to help out; leaving the leader (me) to do all the leg work. Not doable for me.

- Asking everyone what they wanted from the group. I'm just not going to write the ways this was a bad idea. Lol.

 

 

 

I cannot agree with these items enough. :hurray: Some of our favorite play/socialization groups were ruined by people OCD about their brand of homeschooling (which they may fervently change their mind about at any point anyway). I actually hang with people who unschool to have extremely structured school for hours every day. And if the dialog is respectful and people can recognize different kids and different families are serve by different method it can be ok. Setting a tone similar to the religious respect thing might be good? Or catering to those homeschooling for academic reasons (which might be more likely to have a school day and not true unschoolers). I like how Kung Fu talked about this. We invited an unschooler to a playgroup once and she acted like she couldn't mix with the unwashed curriculum users.

 

I've also had problems with groups and ever younger kids coming in. If I do not know 2 kids within a year of my oldest's age at any event now, I don't even bother. He'll just make my life miserable, I'll wish I didn't come anyway. It's hard to build relationships when a group is ever growing and changing. I know homeschoolers like flexibility, but my favorite group right now is small, close to home, and the same kids show up the vast majority of weeks. My kids have developed some very good relationships in that group.

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i tried to start a park day with an unschooler who had just moved in to the area, the year I started homeschooling. I still think the main reason no one came back more than a second time was because she got rude any time anyone tried to talk about curriculum, or else just started talking about how great it was that her 9 yo wasnt interested in reading yet.

 

I havent found anything like a coop that works for me and mine. The closest has been the existing park day .. . there was a core group who was very unfriendly to outsiders. they came reliably but chased people away because they would not talk to anyone else. Now there is a waldorfy-coop that meets there at the same time as park day. they are slightly more friendly? But i still put out the word to all my friends on fb if i'm planning on going

 

the other thing that worked for a while was a video game club, but that stopped too.

 

the very worst failure was the secular coop that was attempted - she made it clear that she would not allow anyone to speak about religion in her house, ever, period. well, that eliminated most people. She chased me out despite me being totally secular . .and eventually chased someone else out . . . it didnt make it to its second year.

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Religious discussion being allowed was the one thing that DID work across the board, lol.

 

Perhaps secular is the wrong word - maybe "all faith (or non faith) inclusive group" would be a better way to word it.

 

Well, really and truly, "secular" is the right word. It doesn't mean "absolutely no religion. ever." It means "not organized for religious purposes." (Ok, that's a stretch, but in this context, it's what you mean, lol.) I was in on the beginning discussion of a *secular* group in California many years ago trying to decide how to define itself, which is when the word "inclusive" came into use. But "inclusive" doesn't mean "all religions are accepted," because, in fact, they often are not among homeschoolers who don't have any strong religious preferences at all. And some "religious" groups welcome others who are not of their same faith, so calling a "religious" group "exclusive" isn't accurate, either.

 

I'm just obstinate enough to say go with "secular," since it isn't being organized for religious reasons. "Secular" is a perfectly good word. And you can make it a point in the beginning, and in any written descriptions of your group, to say that homeschoolers of all faiths, or none, are welcome.

 

For myself, I cannot attend a *weekly* park day. Many people can't, so what happens is that there are 40 families in the group, but 20 of them don't know the other 20, because they can't all come on the same park day. If you choose *one* day a month for park day, more people are more likely to commit, resulting in more cohesiveness and, well, support.

 

You could do one park day a month (I prefer Fridays, myself), plus one field trip (also on Friday), so that two Fridays a month are always set aside for group activities. That keeps the support group from sucking the life out of everyone, KWIM?

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I already belong to a co-op and have no interest in leading or starting another. I'm more in this for a support/social atmosphere.

Your ideas are great though! It sounds like your co-op works really well!

 

I understand, but one of the classes can be "recess" or "board games" and YOUR family can attend for only one class during the day. If someone wants to teach chemistry, more power to them AND the families participating, but you don't have to deal with it. The point is to get what you need. If your kid wants on class, a free hour in the common room, and lunch with his friends, give him just that.

 

I do agree that it's wise to separate the age groups. Some homeschoolers find it offensive to suggest that my teen might have different interests than their toddler, but I believe it's true. Perhaps for your needs, you should just start a social group for one age range where you have a set meeting time that everyone is committed to. Maybe you do a field trip, meet in a park, or rotate houses for playgroup. I think having that time to look forward to is nice. I know that I really enjoy the classes where I'm not teaching, my son is in class, and I can catch up with my friends. My son really likes lunch with 'the guys.'

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I do have a side question that's not really worth another thread. Do you guys see many curriculum-pushy folks with older kids? It seems a person only has so many intense curriculum debates in them before they're over that topic. I'll own up to having drunk TWTM kool-aid when my oldest was 4 or 5, but I wouldn't try to make someone else feel bad for choosing Calvert and I certainly haven't had a real life discussion about either in YEARS.

 

It's been my observation that parents of older kids have exhausted the general homeschooling conversation and have moved on to other topics. Also, maybe it's regional, but I've never seen anyone attempt to join a homeschooling group if they didn't have a school-aged child.

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I do have a side question that's not really worth another thread. Do you guys see many curriculum-pushy folks with older kids?

 

I've had a lot of people pushing dual enrollment, co-op classes and outsourcing for older kids. None of which I mind, but it bothered me that I have been told that I'm doing my teen a disservice if I don't do the same.

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I haven't read all the responses but I just wanted to share my experience. I was part of an inclusive group for many years. The bylaws included rules that everyone was to be respectful of others in regards to religious/spiritual beliefs, methods of homeschooling, etc. We discouraged proselytizing on any of these areas. We had unschoolers, school-in-the-boxers, classical, Charlotte Mason, Waldorf, you name it. We had people of most religious persuasions and many non-religious people as well. The only group not well-represented were evangelical Christians, but that was by their choice. I have never met a more open, generous group of people. I have found life-long friends in this group. The only area where we had some difficulty was discipline. Most of the group followed more gentle discipline practices so those who were harshly punitive didn't fit in well.

 

Our group had park meetings twice a month during warmer weather and monthly evening parent meetings without kids. Although we had a few officers (a newsletter person, treasurer, founder/president, welcoming chairperson, membership chairperson, outreach chair who basically talked to people interested in joining our group or homeschooling in general), there really wasn't a hierarchy. We operated on the "if you build it, they will come" philosophy. If you wanted a field trip for your child, you set it up and either announced it to the group or invited people to join you. If you wanted a science club, you started one. The person who set things up made the rules. If you didn't like the rules, you started your own thing. It was a vibrant community. We had preschool playgroups, teen drama clubs, book clubs for kids, book clubs for parents, nature clubs, rocketry clubs ... there was something for everyone. If someone needed to impose age limits or size, they did so.

 

We did experience some growing pains in the early 2000s. It seems to me that this was when homeschooling started to appeal to people looking to escape bad schooling situations. Beforehand, most of the homeschoolers in our area did it for religious reasons or did it as a lifestyle choice. We started to get a large influx of new people who had just pulled their children out of school and came to the group looking for what we could do for them. They were used to schools doing things for them and did not really get the "if you build it, they will come" attitude. This really changed the energy of the group. We had tried many things to meet the needs of these new homeschoolers while at the same time, meet the needs of those who had been homeschooling a while. We tried setting aside the first hour of our parent meetings to newcomer discussions. But, many of the newcomers did not respect the needs of the longtime homeschoolers and took up the 2nd hour with more questions so that we never seemed to get to the scheduled discussion topic. We tried newcomers' teas to help get new people acquainted with the group so that our regular parent meetings could regain that old spark. We had information packets printed up. But old timers started to avoid the parent meetings because their needs were no longer being met. Also, the group got so large that it became unwieldy. People had to start limiting the size of their groups, partially to keep the size more manageable and less like a classroom, and partially to work with the people that they knew would be active participants and contributors. Unfortunately, as most of the founding members graduated and moved on to other things, there weren't enough of the dedicated, contributing families left and too many of the "takers" so the group dwindled away. Most of us have moved on to online support groups and form smaller, interest-specific groups from there.

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eta: I would absolutely disallow preschool UNLESS they have siblings who are at least in first grade or above. (otherwise, it is just a mops group.)

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

Really and truly, people whose oldest children are not yet school-age are just, you know, parenting. They are NOT homeschooling. ::gets ready for the tomatoes:: I think it's appropriate to designate a homeschool support group as a group that supports families of school-age children (and I would count kindergarten, i.e., children who are 5 by the cut-off date in whichever state you live in; I wouldn't specify a grade level because homeschoolers like to be creative with grade levels, lol.).

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I do agree that it's wise to separate the age groups. Some homeschoolers find it offensive to suggest that my teen might have different interests than their toddler, but I believe it's true. Perhaps for your needs, you should just start a social group for one age range where you have a set meeting time that everyone is committed to. Maybe you do a field trip, meet in a park, or rotate houses for playgroup. I think having that time to look forward to is nice. I know that I really enjoy the classes where I'm not teaching, my son is in class, and I can catch up with my friends. My son really likes lunch with 'the guys.'

 

In one city where I homeschooled, we didn't separate age in our support group, but one of the mothers started a group that was designate for children 11 and older. Parents of younger children were welcome to plan activities on their own for their younger children, of course, but all the participants knew that the group's focus was older children.

 

I can understand doing that in a co-op or other teaching situation, but for a support group...no. In my last group, we planned field trips with all ages in mind, but some were more appropriate for older dc, some for younger dc, and we made that clear in field trip information write-ups. It worked quite well, especially since people with younger or older children participated in our bi-annual field trip planning meetings and they made sure there were field trips that their own children would enjoy. :-)

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I belong to a local "chapter" of Parent Educators And Kids (PEAK: http://peaknetwork.org/) and really love it. This is the second PEAK group I have belonged to, and it is completely different from the first. Each group has its own flavor dependent on the desires and involvement of the local members. You can contact Natalie (one of the co-founders and administrators) through the website for information on finding or starting a PEAK (or PEAK-like) group near you. Or feel free to PM me, and I'd be happy to share how the group has worked from a member's point of view.

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I've been part of an awesome local homeschool group now for 2 or 3 years. IMO, what makes our group work is:

 

-no prosyletizing on any topic is permitted (religion, method, curriculum)

-There are no activites that are set up as meetings of the entire group. Members can plan an activity of any kind, post it to the email list, and people sign up, first come, first served.

-every family is required to attend one activity per semester to remain an active member

-attendance is taken at all activites-so you must be counted if you sign up and show up for something. Repeatedly no showing at the last minute can get you kicked out. And there is real enforcement of this.

-there is real enforcement of the rules. Someone prosyletized to the email list, and was unsubbed, no questions asked.

-Many activities have age limits-in some cases, field trips have been limited to certain age groups. In most, tag along babies are permitted, but occasionally not

- Preeschool parents have formed their own co-op and meet every couple of weeks.

-all activites are held at places that are NOT someone's home

-occasional "non group" activites, such as playground days, concerts, etc. can be posted on the email list.

 

I have loved being part of this group. I've made good friends and so have my kids. We've had art classes, there are science lab co-ops, parents night out, dozens of field trips. Lego club, you name it. The key, IMO, is in having real enforcement of the rules and not tolerating deadbeats. There is definitely a mixture of unschooler and structured schoolers, and a mix of religions\non-religious people. It has worked for us.

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