have you ever felt excluded by other homeschoolers?

[laughing lioness]

Have you ever felt excluded based on a difference in religion, politics, worldview, lifestyle etc? I'm apparently not conservative enough for the conservatives, and way too conservative for the liberals.

 

:iagree: That like so sums it up.

[dm379]

We've definitely felt excluded. The first time we tried a group it was a secular all-inclusive group. We were asked to leave because ds told another kid we don't go to church. Apparently it is only all-inclusive for Christians. Then we tried the local military group. When we first got here we were welcomed and it was great. Then somebody asked me dh's rank and we were ignored after I told them. I gave up after that.

[Critterfixer]

What an interesting thread!

Makes me feel, um...excluded.

[Julie Smith]

I have a nice Christian homeschool group that has a monthly parent meeting just down the street from me.

 

They are for the most part all very nice and welcoming. The only rule for taking part is that you have to accept it's a Christian group and not complain about that. I think you have to sign a SOF if you become one of few leaders, or at least be a Christian.

 

They are all nice, happy to get together if scheduling works out. Happily talk and visit about things. But the majority are, how shall I say this very Christian. As in when speaking about what a typical day of school is like to the group mention religion (God, church, bible...) in some way in at least ever other sentence.

[beaners]

Thanks for suggesting I go around leering at naked women and then am surprised someone doesn't like it. You kind of proved my point about how friendly HSing moms are to me.

 

I think it was meant as a joke. That's the way I read it, at least. :)

[mama27]

Yes. Because you know my kids just aren't as good as other people's kids and they just aren't as friend worthy because they aren't a certain kind of Christian. Sorry, this is a bee in my bonnet right now.

 

 

My kids are wilder than most of the other homeschool families I have met and we don't dress and live as if we are living in Little House on the Prairie (which I LOVE, btw! lol), so we don't fit in with other homeschoolers.

A lot of the ones I have known dress their kids in clothes that look as if they came out of Goodwills clearance bin, even though they drive cars and have bigger houses than mine, to try and make a somber, conservative outward appearance. And their kids will walk quietly through Walmart without breaking the line or speaking a word while mine are climbing the shelves like monkeys.

I used to envy that till I realized that I am actually ok with my monkey/children and God made them spirited. Well, most days I'm ok with it. lol

When we moved 3 years ago, I tried meeting homeschoolers, thinking that it was just the previous state we lived in but it was the same with the ones I met or rather SAW because none of them actually spoke to me.

So, we got involved in a church instead. A small one that amazingly has like 5 ps teachers and only ONE gives off anti-homeschooling vibes. Since we joined 2 other families started homeschooling but we only see them in church. I have decided that enough socializing because we seem to ALWAYS be doing something there.

I don't think homeschoolers are any different than any other human. There are cliques everywhere and people tend to gravitate toward those they are comfortable with wether it's for religious reasons, outward appreances, race, whatever. And it's really not a bad thing. For example in our previous state a lot of homeschoolers are VERY into 4H and my kids hated it. What would we all have in common? Not much, really.

Other families were very into grinding their own flour, not vaccinating, and breast feeding till the kids were 10 or whatever. (NOT putting anyone down here) We vaccinate, I hate cooking let alone grinding my own flour, and was a total failure at bbreast feeding beyond 2 weeks. So, again, what would I have in common with them? Not a whole lot. Really JUST homeschooling was our only commonality.

I think it's more important to find one or 2 families you can be close to even if they happen to be related to you than to try and fit in with a group. No one really fits in with a whole group, IMO.

[mama27]

Oh ds14 would love a Halo shirt, he wears his modern warfare shirt all the time. As far as video games go I think our boys would get along, ds rarely finds homeschooled kids who are even allowed to have a tv in the house let alone be allowed to play video games.

 

 

Where we used to live none of the homeschool families we knew would alow their kids to watch Twilight but LOVED, LOVED, LOVED Lord of the Rings. Those LOTR movies have some VERY scary characters in them. Creeeeepy!!!! I have never understood that.

[mama27]

 

That has been true in my daughter's short life. She is regularly excluded because she's not in a particular child's school group, or she plays the babyish My LIttle Ponies, or she still likes fairies - or she plays Minecraft - a BOYS game. She doesn't like most of the books and tv shows the other kids play/watch...so it's an uphill battle for her and a pain in my heart.

 

 

 

BUT when she is an adult she won't be a sheeple! She will be HERSELF (hopefully) which is waaay better than going along with the crowd.

[Crimson Wife]

Over six weeks, she never spoke to me. Or looked at me. Or smiled. I tried to catch her eye and say hi a few times. Nothing.

 

 

That's weird. I'm an introvert and hate making small talk with folks I don't know, but I'll greet you and chat with you a few minutes to be polite even if I'd rather be checking my email on my phone.

[KungFuPanda]

I have not felt excluded, but I haven't tried to join any exclusive groups. I have too many homeschooling friends of other religions to join my faith-specific group. My kids want to do groups with their friends!

 

Socially, though, I've never had any real issues, so breaking into any established group has always seemed more like a process to me than a one-shot emotional event. Some groups are instant access, some take time. I really can talk to anyone. Sometimes I have trouble telling if someone is introverted or just doesn't like me, so I give them space, and occasional non-threatening conversation openers until I figure them out.

 

I live in a diverse area where people have learned to embrace differences more readily. I find that helps. As far as our co-op goes, folks that are such serious scholars they couldn't waste a day at a co-op would not cross my path weekly. The same goes for people who are so committed to unschooling that they'd never enroll in a structured anything.

 

I don't know if it's easy because I'm social or because I live in a very populated area so it's not hard to form a sizable group for anything. We're connected to so many groups (not just homeschooling) that we can always find someone to hang with.

 

We HAVE been involved in the local homeschooling scene for 12 years, so we are very familiar with lots of people and groups. I can't say I've ever felt shunned, but I've always had lots of choices.

[Χά�ων]

 

 

Oh I hear you. My 7 year old loves Minecraft, but you know what else he loves? My Little Pony! Seriously. He LOVES it.

 

One thing I do love about homeschooling is that my kids are more free to be who they are and like what they like without people telling them that's not a boy thing, etc.

 

 

DS has never been exposed to My Little Pony but just loves Tinkerbell. When a new movie comes out, I rent or buy it for him, he has listened to most of the disney tinkerbell fairy books on audio and begs for more. His homeschool friends are fine with it.

[mama27]

. Yeah, and the only time she wears a dress is in her heels which oh my goodness I may as well let her dress as a hooker because she wears a 1.5" heel. People are weird. (or at least they think we are)

 

 

 

My 13 yo dd wears heels all the time, sparkly dresses as often as possible, make up, but still thinks boys are gross. lol

I really don't care what people think. I allow my kids freedom such as dyeing their hair blue. My 17 yo has just graduated and has had every hair color imaginable, except orange, and is starting cosmetology school tomorrow. What if we hadn't allowed that? She may not have found her calling or whatever.

I don't want my daughters main goal in life to be to have a husband and have babies. I want them to do what GOD wants and I don't believe that His only goals for females is baby-making and being a wife. Of course I HOPE they get married and have babies but what hapopens if they don't? Should I raise them to feel like failures if they don't meet Mr. Perfect or can't have children or really don't even WANT to have children?

Plus, we have a daughter who didn't date till she was 17, then we did the whole not allowing them to be alone thing and at 18 she rebelled totally, ran away, and married him and a year and half later, is estranged from us. I truly believe this is because she was sooo naive that the first guy that came along, she belives everything he says. We were and are not super strict, controlling parents, but this guy is very controlling and mentally instable.

I have seen other families, who were waaaaay stricter than us, no tvs, not even mixing girls and boys together in youth groups at church, and their kids rebel, have babies unmarried,do drugs, estrange them selves from their whole famileis, etc.

IMO trying to raise your kids as if the real world of Ipods and dating and video games don't exist is setting them up to not be able to deal when they are suddenly thrust into situations where they don't know how to cope. Of course these same problems exist in ALL families but a lot of homeschoolers are under this misguided impression that if they do everything "right" that somehow their kids will turn out perfect and guess what? They will not. They will sin just like every other human being and a lot of those sins will be big, huge, life-altering sins.

Sorry, this is a major pet peeve of mine!

[mama27]

I sort of exclude myself to avoid being excluded. I feel this way about many other women, though. Not really sure if it's a HSing thing in particular.

 

I get people telling me about groups of people who are homeschooling, but I never meet them. I had one friend tell me about a coop that became a school or something, and I found their website and they have all these rules that irritated me, including a dress code for parents and rule against lunch boxes with cartoon characters etc etc. Even though I wouldn't violate their policies, it annoyed me. I have stayed far away.

 

And, while my husband was chatted up at a swim group by another dad, his wife wouldn't make eye contact or say hi to me, and her mom or MIL cut in front of me at the showers. ha.

 

I have had my homeschooling relative avoid talking to me about homeschooling. Does that count?

 

 

 

Dres code for parents????? What's wrong with cartoon characters??????

[mommymilkies]

Where we used to live none of the homeschool families we knew would alow their kids to watch Twilight but LOVED, LOVED, LOVED Lord of the Rings. Those LOTR movies have some VERY scary characters in them. Creeeeepy!!!! I have never understood that.

 

 

Are you serious? Please tell me you are kidding. First of all, the message in LoTR is completely different from Twilight. I have read both several times and seen a couple of the Twilight movies. I've never known anyone who stopped their kids watching Twilight because it was scary. But a whole lot of people agree that it is not appropriate for kids to watch something where the only moral is to do anything humanly possible that is beyond stupid because you're in love with a dangerous killer and you, in essence, want them to kill you. NOTHING LIKE LOTR!!!!!

[mama27]

Are you serious? Please tell me you are kidding. First of all, the message in LoTR is completely different from Twilight. I have read both several times and seen a couple of the Twilight movies. I've never known anyone who stopped their kids watching Twilight because it was scary. But a whole lot of people agree that it is not appropriate for kids to watch something where the only moral is to do anything humanly possible that is beyond stupid because you're in love with a dangerous killer and you, in essence, want them to kill you. NOTHING LIKE LOTR!!!!!

 

No, they LIKED LOTR but not Twilight, I assume for the reasons you just stated. But, IMO, LOTR, is way darker than stupid Twilight. Or Harry Potter. That was the other "bad" one. HP is evil and LOTR is not. According to them.

[Crimson Wife]

No, they LIKED LOTR but not Twilight, I assume for the reasons you just stated. But, IMO, LOTR, is way darker than stupid Twilight. Or Harry Potter. That was the other "bad" one. HP is evil and LOTR is not. According to them.

 

I am fine with LOTR and HP because, while violent, there is a very clear good-triumphs-over-evil message. Twilight might not have as much violence (at least in the earlier parts), but Bella is a passive pawn to a manipulative Svengali. That is definitely NOT something I want my early puberty DD exposed to, KWIM?

 

Somebody told me one time that awful 50 Shades of Gray started out as Twilight fan fiction, and I have to say that I wasn't surprised...

[Incognito]

Thanks for suggesting I go around leering at naked women and then am surprised someone doesn't like it. You kind of proved my point about how friendly HSing moms are to me. ....

 

I'm sorry to have upset you. I was totally joking. The tongue sticking out smiley was supposed to indicate that.

[mommymilkies]

No, they LIKED LOTR but not Twilight, I assume for the reasons you just stated. But, IMO, LOTR, is way darker than stupid Twilight. Or Harry Potter. That was the other "bad" one. HP is evil and LOTR is not. According to them.

 

Have you read Twilight?

[mama27]

 

I am fine with LOTR and HP because, while violent, there is a very clear good-triumphs-over-evil message. Twilight might not have as much violence (at least in the earlier parts), but Bella is a passive pawn to a manipulative Svengali. That is definitely NOT something I want my early puberty DD exposed to, KWIM?

 

Somebody told me one time that awful 50 Shades of Gray started out as Twilight fan fiction, and I have to say that I wasn't surprised...

 

 

 

I have seen the first HP, a couple LOTR, and all of the Twilight with my teenage daughters. Amazingly, they all think Bella is dumb and Edward is ugly. lol The movies were entertaining, we were with friends, it was fun. We saw it and went on with our lives. Nobody here is ibsessed with anything like that.

I didn't know that about 50 Shades, although from what I do know about those books,that's not surprsing.

[SarahW]

 

Somebody told me one time that awful 50 Shades of Gray started out as Twilight fan fiction, and I have to say that I wasn't surprised...

 

 

That's true. I read it as a fanfiction. I'm mildly involved in the fanfiction world, and this fic was hugely popular and very controversial, and since with two clicks and two hours of your time you could read the fic yourself, I availed myself of the experience of reading it. The nome-de-plume back then was Snowqueen Icedragon, and if anyone's interested I'm sure there are pdf's of the fic around the internet. We all figured she would pull-to-publish, but I was surprised to see it take off like it did. My opinion: more sociologists should study fanfiction, then we won't be blindsided when stuff like this happens.

 

I could deconstruct the story, but that's off-topic.

 

I think Twilight fails as literature, but there is some redeeming qualities in it, though you have to get to the very end of book four to see it. But I approached the books purely as fantasy. I remember reading an interview with Stephanie Meyer where she mentions that mom's come to her book signings and say "I want my daughter to marry a guy just like Edward" and her response is "Please tell me you're joking!"

 

On topic! Um, since I haven't yet homeschooling my own kid, I've got not much to say, except that I agree with all those who said they were too liberal for conservatives, and too conservative for liberals. I go to a very conservative church where many people assume that I will just vote a certain way on candidates or issues. I've learned the art of non-committal non-verbal responses.

 

Though when I was homeschooled my mom was one of those excluders in our homeschool group, even though the leader tried to be more open. She picked our friends based on three criteria: that they were homeschooled, that they were the right sort of Christian, and that the kids were better behaved than we were. If the family suddenly failed to meet one of these criteria, we didn't play at their house anymore. It was, I think, an attitude born mostly out of fear. The more conservative/fundamentalist homeschool associations and their associated mailing lists continually reinforce this fear. It's really tough on the kids, that's all I can say about that....

[PachiSusan]

BUT when she is an adult she won't be a sheeple! She will be HERSELF (hopefully) which is waaay better than going along with the crowd.

 

 

I certainly hope so!

[PachiSusan]

 

Oh I hear you. My 7 year old loves Minecraft, but you know what else he loves? My Little Pony! Seriously. He LOVES it.

 

One thing I do love about homeschooling is that my kids are more free to be who they are and like what they like without people telling them that's not a boy thing, etc.

 

 

My 3 nephews (9,12, and 16) are Bronies!!! They love MLP too. The younger one also adores TInkerBell. :)

[mama27]

Have you read Twilight?

 

 

Yes, all of them. They were ok. Cleaner than a lot of books except for the 3rd(I think) one during the honeymoon scene. That was just sick.

[mama27]

I think Twilight fails as literature, but there is some redeeming qualities in it, though you have to get to the very end of book four to see it. But I approached the books purely as fantasy. I remember reading an interview with Stephanie Meyer where she mentions that mom's come to her book signings and say "I want my daughter to marry a guy just like Edward" and her response is "Please tell me you're joking!"

 

I wouldn't consider it literature either, just something to read to escape my own reality. I spend most of my days teaching my kids so when I'm not, sometimes I just want to read something that I don't have to think much about.

[stripe]

Dres code for parents????? What's wrong with cartoon characters??????

Yep. Cartoon stuff too commercialized and/or religiously offensive? I am not really sure. I don't have a lot of cartoon stuff for my kids, but ... you know, I just wasn't interested in a do's and don'ts list.

 

 

That's weird. I'm an introvert and hate making small talk with folks I don't know, but I'll greet you and chat with you a few minutes to be polite even if I'd rather be checking my email on my phone.

Indeed. I think it's normal to acknowledge someone when you walk past, even if it's just looking their way. Oh well. I'll go back to oggling other women's breasts in the shower now.

[kirstenhill]

I don't think homeschoolers are any different than any other human. There are cliques everywhere and people tend to gravitate toward those they are comfortable with wether it's for religious reasons, outward appreances, race, whatever. And it's really not a bad thing. For example in our previous state a lot of homeschoolers are VERY into 4H and my kids hated it. What would we all have in common? Not much, really.

Other families were very into grinding their own flour, not vaccinating, and breast feeding till the kids were 10 or whatever. (NOT putting anyone down here) We vaccinate, I hate cooking let alone grinding my own flour, and was a total failure at bbreast feeding beyond 2 weeks. So, again, what would I have in common with them? Not a whole lot. Really JUST homeschooling was our only commonality.

I think it's more important to find one or 2 families you can be close to even if they happen to be related to you than to try and fit in with a group. No one really fits in with a whole group, IMO.

 

I voted "yes" because I have felt excluded. When DD was younger I thought I would check out an "all inclusive" homeschool group. It turned out that around here that was code for "non religious people who don't want to join the Christian groups". I was fine with being around non-Christians even though we are Christian, but they weren't so fine with me once I answered some of their questions honestly about my beliefs, parenting philosophy etc. I wish they could have been more upfront about it before I wasted my time with a few weeks of their group.

 

But I think what the above poster noted is really true. It is so easy to feel excluded from groups (formal or informal) based on so many different preferences/practices/beliefs. I've felt excluded from other homeschoolers whom I had everything in common with religiously (even attended the same type of church), but because we didn't make the same lifestyle choices in terms of things like diet and health practices...we definitely did not fit in or feel welcome in their little clique.

 

I feel fortunate that in the past couple years I've found a group that I feel comfortable with and don't feel excluded from. Hugs to all those who haven't been able to find such a group that works for them.

[texasmama]

Have you ever felt excluded based on a difference in religion, politics, worldview, lifestyle etc? I'm apparently not conservative enough for the conservatives, and way too conservative for the liberals.

 

:iagree: That like so sums it up.

 

 

Kind of this, though I don't talk too terribly much about topics that I think might be divisive so I fly under the radar with many of my deeply held beliefs. Our co op is ecumenical and does not require a statement of faith. When I worked full time for almost a year and a friend took my kids to co op, I lost some ground in the relationships I had formed there. People moved on to include others without me there so now I am a bit of an outsider, though I have been working part time since last August and attending co op with my kids since then. I think that is just a natural phenomenon, though, and I don't personalize it. Overall, though, the co op is accepting of differences, which is very refreshing.

[misty.warden]

What truly baffles me though is the concept of saying one doesn't homeschool for academic reasons. What other reasons are there? I mean school...academics...not at school...so at home. Not that I don't get that it might not be what motivated someone to do it in the beginning, but what?! I have come across homeschoolers who almost seem offended by talking "school". I don't get it.

 

 

Maybe they mean that academics isn't the main reason? I'm are many people who don't have a private school of their religious persuasion handy and think that public school will be poisonous to their children's spiritual development (yeah, some people feel that strongly about worldly influence and their kids not being allowed to talk about God in academic situations). I can see how in that case the curriculum would not be something they care about as much as people who homeschool (as a first priority) because they want a better education than the ps provides.

[MomatHWTK]

Academics are pretty much a side benefit of all the other reasons I homeschool. I would say that quite a few homeschoolers choose to do so for reasons that have nothing to do with providing a better academic setting.

[boscopup]

No, I haven't felt excluded. I am a part of a group that has religious beliefs exactly like mine (and we are definitely a closed group). That group has very diverse schooling philosophies, but we seem to handle discussing things pretty well (following our religious beliefs during discussion ;) ). I'm sometimes a bit of an oddball during curriculum discussions (ie, I'm using things most people have never heard of), but I don't feel excluded. No one has shunned me because I don't use xyz curriculum.

 

I haven't tried to join any other groups, as I have no desire to do a lot of outside activities (I hardly do anything with the group I'm in - just the very occasional field trip or party). There are probably some groups here that I wouldn't fit in with, but I don't feel excluded, as I don't really want to be in them. I don't know. I guess I just don't care, so it doesn't bother me? And any time that I have not felt "included" in a group situation (in general, not homeschooling related), it was usually because I wasn't putting forth the effort myself. I can only expect to get out of it what I put in - like when someone attends a church and then complains that no one talks to them, but every service they are the first ones out the door... no one has a chance to talk to them! I have to do my part. As an introvert, that is hard for me to do, but I don't feel excluded when I haven't put forth effort. Not to say that excluding people doesn't happen... Obviously, it does. But I don't really worry about it. If a group is really going to exclude me despite me putting in effort to be an active member of the group, they're not worth my time or stress to worry about them. Dust myself off and move on.

[Walking-Iris]

Thank you...everyone...so much for answering my sort of informal survey. It's really shocking in a way to find how everyone at some time has felt this way. I know that it is usually a fact of human nature. In my case however before I had children I was very close friends with homeschooling families (and dated a guy who had been homeschooled in college) and I have always found them to be very open and accepting and tolerant of each other. Whether they were evangelical or liberal christian or completely hippie living on a farm. My first impression of every homeschooler I have ever met was positive. While my oldest was young i didn't interact with many homeschoolers and still the majority of my friends/aquaintenances with kids send them to ps or private school.

 

Honestly I had always felt that regardless of beliefs the common denominator of homeschooling would override any feelings of separateness. It's odd to me that a Christian would not be accepted because there would be a slight variation in a specific belief. It's also not cool with me that a person would feel the need to edit who they were or to essentially muzzle themselves to make others more comfortable. It would never occur to me in a million years to even bring religious topics into any discussion unnecessarily (and especially where children are concerned and present) because I feel that spiritual/religious beliefs are private and it is the parents responsibility to discuss those issues with their children.

 

I also think it odd to argue different homeschooling methods. I may not agree with the radical unschooler, but then again I have the idea that the parent has as much right as I do to educate their child as they see fit. I would make a stand for them to protect their right to do so, regardless of religion or what curriculum they use. I would hope (I did hope at one time until reality came knocking) that a group of homeschoolers could learn from one another. That learning as much about education would trump personal divisions. That seems to happen somewhat effortlessly online. It's a shame it doesn't seem to be the case irl.

 

I homeschool because I honestly feel it the best way to get an education. The different methods are endlessly fascinating to me even if I only read about it. It bothers me somewhat that politics or religion or lifestyle or whatever would get in the way of parent educators communicating with each other.

 

I have always wanted my children to learn tolerance and compassion for all walks of life. How to explain to my kids when they wonder about some kid they like at co-op and I know that I could never invite that person over for a playdate or go to their house because I know how deeply suspect I am based on appearances and assumed beliefs? How to continue to teach my children to get along and accept others and have differences without conflict when others do not feel the same way? How to explain that just my family being who they are is probably against someone's religion?

 

I'm an introspective person. I tend to like everyone until some incident causes me distrust. Trust is the main element in how I form relationships. It can be something as simple as a false niceness and I doubt people.

 

There's a blindness in majority rule and good intentions. These replies have given me a lot to think about. I want to be a part of the homeschool group. This is my home. My family is not going anywhere. It would be nice to be in a group and to not feel that there is a wide divide that will never be crossed.

[swellmomma]

. Yeah, and the only time she wears a dress is in her heels which oh my goodness I may as well let her dress as a hooker because she wears a 1.5" heel. People are weird. (or at least they think we are)

 

 

 

My 13 yo dd wears heels all the time, sparkly dresses as often as possible, make up, but still thinks boys are gross. lol

I really don't care what people think. I allow my kids freedom such as dyeing their hair blue. My 17 yo has just graduated and has had every hair color imaginable, except orange, and is starting cosmetology school tomorrow. What if we hadn't allowed that? She may not have found her calling or whatever. Love that, same dd13 I mentioned is still sporting some purple from last July, lots of green from this xmas and plans to go blue this summer. And when she asked yesterday if she could have a belly button ring, I said yes, at 16 (though I warned her about having to take it out for dance, cadets and horseback riding to prevent it hooking and tearing), she has decided a belly button ring may not be for her after all. Now imagine if I had said heck no, no way will any daughter of mine xyz, I bet she would find a way to pierce it herself, because that is the kind of kid she is.

 

I don't want my daughters main goal in life to be to have a husband and have babies. I want them to do what GOD wants and I don't believe that His only goals for females is baby-making and being a wife. Of course I HOPE they get married and have babies but what hapopens if they don't? Should I raise them to feel like failures if they don't meet Mr. Perfect or can't have children or really don't even WANT to have children?

 

Completely agree. Sure I would grandbabies one day, but I don't want that to be my daughter's only goal in life, to please me giving me grandkids. I want her to reach her dreams and fullfill her purpose even if it is not being a mother.

 

I have seen other families, who were waaaaay stricter than us, no tvs, not even mixing girls and boys together in youth groups at church, and their kids rebel, have babies unmarried,do drugs, estrange them selves from their whole famileis, etc.

 

Yup, my family was a weird mix of uber strict but major blinders too, let's just say I got into way more dangerous and life wrecking situations due to rebelliion etc than necessary. My kids have crushes, they mingle with other gender, they dye their hair, play video games and cuss, etc and to most other homeschoolers they are seen as the undesireables, heck they get shunned by many ps families too because they think the worst of them based on that stuff. Yet my ds14 has a job, is doing well in school and cadets etc which for a spec ed kid is pretty remarkable. dd13 is doing well with cadets and school, is in competive dance and though is new to it is doing very well. At the end of the day my kids have more prospects for their futures than many of those kids that they are not allowed to hang out with because they are seen as not good enough. Both have solid career goals, and have been doing what is necessary to get there even if it means they wear video game based t-shirts, dyed hair, heels or combat boots. I am a strict parent on many things but that stuff not so much. Dating etc even we have rules and such BUT there is no outright banning of things, instead I hope I have instilled the right values and morals in the kids to trust them in that arena etc.

 

IMO trying to raise your kids as if the real world of Ipods and dating and video games don't exist is setting them up to not be able to deal when they are suddenly thrust into situations where they don't know how to cope. Of course these same problems exist in ALL families but a lot of homeschoolers are under this misguided impression that if they do everything "right" that somehow their kids will turn out perfect and guess what? They will not. They will sin just like every other human being and a lot of those sins will be big, huge, life-altering sins.

Sorry, this is a major pet peeve of mine!

 

Exactly. And by default just because another family does not do everything they deem "right" does NOT mean those kids are doomed for failure. Kids from all sort of families succeed, and kids from all sorts of families fail. There is no 1 size fits all recipe. But within certain subsets of the population, like homeschoolers, it is truly believed that there is. The situations I find hilarious are the ones when you are looking at the family thinking "really? you think my kid is not good enough to hang out with your kid?" because we are doing it all wrong and that kid barely has a 2-3 grade education at 14, no job, no extracurriculars(outside of church at least), very isolated etc, and you think your kid is better than mine? Why don't we let the kids decide for themselves who to make friends with and outside of illegal actions stay the heck out of it with our own preconcieved notions of who is good enough. I know someone like that irl, we used to be good friends when the kids were young, as they grew she deemed my family inappropriate because we vaxed, ate fast food, had a tv and played video games, the kids go to activities outside the church(and cadets being one of them sent her over the edge), She didn't like her son to hang out with my girl, said a girl suitable for him would not dye her hair, wear makeup(which mine seldom does anyway of her own choice), would not be choosing to jeans and combat boots or cowboy boots, nor heels with the dresses etc. Having either of my daughter's ears pierced meant I was encouraging them to defile their body and would teach them to do so in other ways and her son would pick up on it etc. She is one of those ones that did bf well past a typical age (as in he 4 and 6 year olds still nurse and her 9 year old only weaned last year) and thought I was a bad mom because I allowed mine to have pop on occasion at those ages etc.

 

My kids are not perfect, no one is, only time will tell how things play out. But as they are growing and maturing I am seeing that they are still reaching the dreams I had for them, dyed hair, video games, crushes and all.

 

The thing I don't get with the excluding of other homeschoolers due to superficial crap is that ultimately we are all trying to do what is best for our kids. If we weren't we wouldn't be homeschooling, or have family rules etc at all. I just wish that more people would trust their kids to have some sense and allow them to choose their friends on their own. If we were still excluded fine, I actually wouldn't feel badly about that at all, because it would be the kids deciding on their own who they want to spend time with. It is that looking down the nose, assuming everyone a little different is not good enough crap that ticks me off. Why not teach discernment rather than discrimination ya know.

[Julie Smith]

I think Twilight fails as literature, but there is some redeeming qualities in it, though you have to get to the very end of book four to see it.

 

Please go on.

 

No way can I get through all 4 books myself.

[misty.warden]

 

Please go on.

 

No way can I get through all 4 books myself.

 

 

OT, I liked the theme of having a very loyal family (vampires from all over the world come to save Renesmee when they have no real reason to put themselves out there for someone they don't know). I think there could be a lot of teachable moments (wanting to keep someone away from what you think is a dangerous influence/dealing with people thinking your choices are wrong/girls who pressure guys for sex) but they aren't my first choice for approaching those subjects but if I had a kid who loved them I could use them.

[mama27]

Exactly. And by default just because another family does not do everything they deem "right" does NOT mean those kids are doomed for failure. Kids from all sort of families succeed, and kids from all sorts of families fail. There is no 1 size fits all recipe. But within certain subsets of the population, like homeschoolers, it is truly believed that there is. The situations I find hilarious are the ones when you are looking at the family thinking "really? you think my kid is not good enough to hang out with your kid?" because we are doing it all wrong and that kid barely has a 2-3 grade education at 14, no job, no extracurriculars(outside of church at least), very isolated etc, and you think your kid is better than mine? Why don't we let the kids decide for themselves who to make friends with and outside of illegal actions stay the heck out of it with our own preconcieved notions of who is good enough. I know someone like that irl, we used to be good friends when the kids were young, as they grew she deemed my family inappropriate because we vaxed, ate fast food, had a tv and played video games, the kids go to activities outside the church(and cadets being one of them sent her over the edge), She didn't like her son to hang out with my girl, said a girl suitable for him would not dye her hair, wear makeup(which mine seldom does anyway of her own choice), would not be choosing to jeans and combat boots or cowboy boots, nor heels with the dresses etc. Having either of my daughter's ears pierced meant I was encouraging them to defile their body and would teach them to do so in other ways and her son would pick up on it etc. She is one of those ones that did bf well past a typical age (as in he 4 and 6 year olds still nurse and her 9 year old only weaned last year) and thought I was a bad mom because I allowed mine to have pop on occasion at those ages etc.

 

My kids are not perfect, no one is, only time will tell how things play out. But as they are growing and maturing I am seeing that they are still reaching the dreams I had for them, dyed hair, video games, crushes and all.

 

The thing I don't get with the excluding of other homeschoolers due to superficial crap is that ultimately we are all trying to do what is best for our kids. If we weren't we wouldn't be homeschooling, or have family rules etc at all. I just wish that more people would trust their kids to have some sense and allow them to choose their friends on their own. If we were still excluded fine, I actually wouldn't feel badly about that at all, because it would be the kids deciding on their own who they want to spend time with. It is that looking down the nose, assuming everyone a little different is not good enough crap that ticks me off. Why not teach discernment rather than discrimination ya know.

 

 

 

***Having either of my daughter's ears pierced meant I was encouraging them to defile their body***

 

 

Genesis 24:22

 

New International Version (NIV)

 

²² When the camels had finished drinking, the man took out a gold nose ring weighing a beka^[a] and two gold bracelets weighing ten shekels

 

 

I guess Rebekah defiled her nose.

And I suppose the year Esther spent in the kings palace she was being made more beautiful she sure did not wear make-up! Or do anything tpo her hair that was unnatural. rolling eyes

 

And I'm sorry, it's just gross to bf your 6 or 9 year old! EW!

Sounds like you are better off anyways.

[mama27]

Exactly. And by default just because another family does not do everything they deem "right" does NOT mean those kids are doomed for failure. Kids from all sort of families succeed, and kids from all sorts of families fail. There is no 1 size fits all recipe. But within certain subsets of the population, like homeschoolers, it is truly believed that there is. The situations I find hilarious are the ones when you are looking at the family thinking "really? you think my kid is not good enough to hang out with your kid?" because we are doing it all wrong and that kid barely has a 2-3 grade education at 14, no job, no extracurriculars(outside of church at least), very isolated etc, and you think your kid is better than mine? Why don't we let the kids decide for themselves who to make friends with and outside of illegal actions stay the heck out of it with our own preconcieved notions of who is good enough. I know someone like that irl, we used to be good friends when the kids were young, as they grew she deemed my family inappropriate because we vaxed, ate fast food, had a tv and played video games, the kids go to activities outside the church(and cadets being one of them sent her over the edge), She didn't like her son to hang out with my girl, said a girl suitable for him would not dye her hair, wear makeup(which mine seldom does anyway of her own choice), would not be choosing to jeans and combat boots or cowboy boots, nor heels with the dresses etc. Having either of my daughter's ears pierced meant I was encouraging them to defile their body and would teach them to do so in other ways and her son would pick up on it etc. She is one of those ones that did bf well past a typical age (as in he 4 and 6 year olds still nurse and her 9 year old only weaned last year) and thought I was a bad mom because I allowed mine to have pop on occasion at those ages etc.

 

My kids are not perfect, no one is, only time will tell how things play out. But as they are growing and maturing I am seeing that they are still reaching the dreams I had for them, dyed hair, video games, crushes and all.

 

The thing I don't get with the excluding of other homeschoolers due to superficial crap is that ultimately we are all trying to do what is best for our kids. If we weren't we wouldn't be homeschooling, or have family rules etc at all. I just wish that more people would trust their kids to have some sense and allow them to choose their friends on their own. If we were still excluded fine, I actually wouldn't feel badly about that at all, because it would be the kids deciding on their own who they want to spend time with. It is that looking down the nose, assuming everyone a little different is not good enough crap that ticks me off. Why not teach discernment rather than discrimination ya know.

 

 

 

My 17 yo has 2 piercings. Lip and belly. The belly got infected but the lip didn't. I don't know if it's the location of the piercing or what. It may be since it's always covered and isn't exposed to air. It wasn't badly infected, just need Neosporin for a bit. That was my only real concern for the piercings, was for her health.

She also wants a tatoo for her 18th birthday. I am ok with that also. She's a good kid. Reads her Bible everyday and actually does a better job of living the Word than a lot of other poeple I know, myself included. My 13 and 17 yo are the only ones in the youth group that read their Bibles daily. Even the pastors kids don't. I know because the YP has asked that question a lot and they are the only ones who answer yes.

They've told me quite a bit about how the other teens act, the way they talk to each other and about each other and to my kids. Granted they ARE the only homeschooled kids in their group but most people are not homeschooled so they kind of have to learn how to live with this, kwim?

[CatholicMom]

I said Yes, I have felt excluded. Though it's not like I've ever been shunned in person that I can remember. But there is a big homeschooling group/Co-op right in my town, but there are a bunch of moms from my former church (eek). I'm quite sure they are almost all protestant Christians (if not all). So there is already a big awkwardness for me between people from my former protestant church and probably being the only Catholic to show up, to boot. However, I bit the bullet once and contacted an old acquaintance/friend from that former church and asked about joining the co-op and/or group. She sounded gung-ho about it but then never contacted me again and seemed to let it fade. It was one of those situations where I didn't want to pester and doing so would make me feel like I wasn't really wanted in the group anyway, because I had to bug about it. So I let it go.

 

I definitely think there are different types of homeschoolers and of course the more you have in common with others (whether it's religion or a educational philosophy or whatever) the more "included" you will feel, and the more "excluded" those who don't fit in will feel. Such is life.

 

The thing that bothers me a bit about the situation I described with my local homeschool group is that it is supposed to be a "Christian homeschool group" but it seems it's taken for granted that Catholics aren't in this camp. Even their statement of faith, which you have to sign, seems to have some language that might be intentionally excluding Catholics because of differing theology.

 

Oh well. That's what they believe and that's life. Just kinda stinks for me.

[Tracy]

The thing that bothers me a bit about the situation I described with my local homeschool group is that it is supposed to be a "Christian homeschool group" but it seems it's taken for granted that Catholics aren't in this camp. Even their statement of faith, which you have to sign, seems to have some language that might be intentionally excluding Catholics because of differing theology.

 

 

There is no doubt that when certain people say "Christian," they mean "Protestant." I remember talking about religion to a friend as a child, and I told her I was Catholic and asked her what she was. She responded "Christian." I was like, "Yeah, I figured, but what church? and she could not say. Of course, she was just innocently saying what she had been taught, but I have heard many, many people talk like this. And many do believe that you are not a true Christian if you are not protestant. Fortunately, I have found a wonderful eclectic group of friends who are members of all different churches, and it has really soothed me to see that not all people are like that.

[kitten18]

 

 

 

LOL. Uniform community? Keep dreaming. Huge divisions: between religious and secular homeschoolers, and between unschoolers and academically motivated homeschoolers. Add to that that the homeschooling community is mainly carried by women, and you have the nastiest cat fights imaginable.

 

:iagree:

 

Does it count of you don't care? I am sure that the local LEAH group would want nothing to do with me, but I am fine with that. It would never occur to me to want to have anything to do with them.

 

But, have I been excluded (or felt excluded which is different from actually being excluded) by homeschoolers I would like to spend time with? Nope, can't say that I have.

 

I agree. I voted No, I've never felt excluded. I'm sure that is largely because I've never tried to join a group where I knew we wouldn't fit in.

We are lucky, there is a very diverse homeschooling population here. I'm sure there are Christian groups that wouldn't work for us (we're Catholic) but I don't even know who they are or where they meet because I have other options.

[SarahW]

Please go on.

 

No way can I get through all 4 books myself.

 

OT, I liked the theme of having a very loyal family (vampires from all over the world come to save Renesmee when they have no real reason to put themselves out there for someone they don't know). I think there could be a lot of teachable moments (wanting to keep someone away from what you think is a dangerous influence/dealing with people thinking your choices are wrong/girls who pressure guys for sex) but they aren't my first choice for approaching those subjects but if I had a kid who loved them I could use them.

 

 

Ok, since you asked. I largely agree with misty.warden. The fact that Meyer is Mormon gives the books a unique flavor when it comes to the importance of family and morals, and the books take for granted that these two things define who you are as a person and your character.

 

But also - I actually liked the Merchant of Venice finale. It's not often you see a female hero use her mind, her logic, and her abilities to save the day. She protects her family, takes down oligarchy, and makes no recourse to violence. I've never seen anything quite like the last 10 chapters of Breaking Dawn anywhere else in YA lit, or in any other lit for that matter (besides Merchant of Venice, of course).

 

That being said, Breaking Dawn is a good case study in how not to write a novel. I think Meyer's editor must have completely checked out or something. First rule of first person point of view: Don't change point of view. But the editor may have tried to rewrite the ending to a normal, dull shoot-em-up finale, so there's your trade-off.

 

IMO, Urban Fantasy is a super tough genre to pull off successfully. That's why the vast majority of Twilight fanfic gives up on the genre, and just makes everyone human in a Rom/chicklit story (like 50 shades). But, I have read some fanfic that manages to use the UF genre well (better even than Twilight itself), so I think underlying "myth" has some merit to it.

 

I've seen some criticisms of Twilight that I think are totally uncalled for and illogical (Pastor you-know-who-you-are, would you please shut up about things you know nothing about!). And then there are other criticisms which fall into the same category as criticisms of the series finale of Battlestar Galatica (the new series) - some people just don't like what it is telling them. Okay, I get it, you have a totally different worldview/opinion, but would it kill you to just realize that and move on?

 

As escapist fantasy, I think Twilight is fine. It's better than other fantasy books out there, especially most of the other YA ones. And I do think the series, its response, and its fanfiction, deserve a serious study by a good sociologist.

 

And I believe the first Twilight movie makes an excellent MST choice. Gotta love it for that. ;)

 

Now back to the regularly scheduled topic... :D

[kitten18]

 

Oh I hear you. My 7 year old loves Minecraft, but you know what else he loves? My Little Pony! Seriously. He LOVES it.

 

One thing I do love about homeschooling is that my kids are more free to be who they are and like what they like without people telling them that's not a boy thing, etc.

So true. My DS (7) is a funny little guy. A couple weeks ago he wanted to take his doll (cheap version of an AG doll) to gymnastics class so she could watch him in class. When we went in he was showing everyone his doll. I had to hold her up to the window during class so she could watch him. :laugh:

I think I will have to introduce him to My Little Pony.

 

 

 

I get people telling me about groups of people who are homeschooling, but I never meet them. I had one friend tell me about a coop that became a school or something, and I found their website and they have all these rules that irritated me, including a dress code for parents and rule against lunch boxes with cartoon characters etc etc. Even though I wouldn't violate their policies, it annoyed me. I have stayed far away.

 

 

:blink:

[momtoamiracle]

I haven't read all replies but yes, I have been treated rudelyby other homeschoolers. And not because of religion or race because we shared the religion and race! I don't low the reason for it because it was people I had spent only a little time with, but when we're in our homeschool group or other places they act like I'm the Devils spawn.

 

I find it hurtful and have pretty much given up on our homeschool group.

[Julie Smith]

 

Oh I hear you. My 7 year old loves Minecraft, but you know what else he loves? My Little Pony! Seriously. He LOVES it.

 

One thing I do love about homeschooling is that my kids are more free to be who they are and like what they like without people telling them that's not a boy thing, etc.

 

For the My Little Pony thing.

 

My husband has told me that the Little Pony tv show has lots of fans who are teenage boys. Supposedly it is really well written and has a bit of a cult following.

 

Who would have guessed.

[LucyStoner]

 

 

My husband has told me that the Little Pony tv show has lots of fans who are teenage boys. Supposedly it is really well written and has a bit of a cult following.

 

 

Bronies. That is what they call themselves. There are teen and adult fans of My Little Pony both male and female. I read about it and chalked it up to one of the many strange things you can learn in a day.

[pdalley]

Yes, all of them. They were ok. Cleaner than a lot of books except for the 3rd(I think) one during the honeymoon scene. That was just sick.

 

 

 

The fourth one. The birth scene was the more violent. IMO. I've seen more graphic descriptions of honeymoons in Harlequins. (Then again I'm older than dirt)

 

But I've figured out why I'm excluded - I actually liked the Twilight books. But then I grew up on VC Andrews so they are extremely tame IME. 50 Shades is written so poorly I can't finish two pages of it.

 

I do not like LOTR or Harry Potter cause I don't like the genre. I have no idea why I liked Twilight but there it is.

 

The boys think it is stupid anyway. They hate to read fiction of any type.

 

I'm not one to really censor books. As teens my cousin was a devotee of Harold Robbins. I leaned towards VC Andrews and Jackie Collins.

 

As someone said upthread - I'm too conservative for the liberals and too liberal for the conservatives.

[mama27]

 

 

The fourth one. The birth scene was the more violent. IMO. I've seen more graphic descriptions of honeymoons in Harlequins. (Then again I'm older than dirt)

 

But I've figured out why I'm excluded - I actually liked the Twilight books. But then I grew up on VC Andrews so they are extremely tame IME. 50 Shades is written so poorly I can't finish two pages of it.

 

I do not like LOTR or Harry Potter cause I don't like the genre. I have no idea why I liked Twilight but there it is.

 

The boys think it is stupid anyway. They hate to read fiction of any type.

 

I'm not one to really censor books. As teens my cousin was a devotee of Harold Robbins. I leaned towards VC Andrews and Jackie Collins.

 

As someone said upthread - I'm too conservative for the liberals and too liberal for the conservatives.

 

 

 

Oh, I like the Twilight books. Violence doesn't bother me as much as sex in places where it's not needed, kwim? What bothered me about the honeymoon scence was the fact that Bella had bruises all over her after and was all gung ho about it. THAT bothered me.

I've tried reading LOTR but couldn't get through them all. Just not something I can get into.

I've read quite a few YA novels, mostly dysatopian like Hunger Games and Divergent (both series are VERY good, IMO).

I think we are getting way off topic here. lol

[mommaduck]

 

 

The fourth one. The birth scene was the more violent. IMO. I've seen more graphic descriptions of honeymoons in Harlequins. (Then again I'm older than dirt)

 

But I've figured out why I'm excluded - I actually liked the Twilight books. But then I grew up on VC Andrews so they are extremely tame IME. 50 Shades is written so poorly I can't finish two pages of it.

 

I do not like LOTR or Harry Potter cause I don't like the genre. I have no idea why I liked Twilight but there it is.

 

The boys think it is stupid anyway. They hate to read fiction of any type.

 

I'm not one to really censor books. As teens my cousin was a devotee of Harold Robbins. I leaned towards VC Andrews and Jackie Collins.

 

As someone said upthread - I'm too conservative for the liberals and too liberal for the conservatives.

I remember when every teen girl was addicted to V.C. Andrews. Yep, we're officially older than dirt.

[pdalley]

Oh, I like the Twilight books. Violence doesn't bother me as much as sex in places where it's not needed, kwim? What bothered me about the honeymoon scence was the fact that Bella had bruises all over her after and was all gung ho about it. THAT bothered me.

I've tried reading LOTR but couldn't get through them all. Just not something I can get into.

I've read quite a few YA novels, mostly dysatopian like Hunger Games and Divergent (both series are VERY good, IMO).

I think we are getting way off topic here. lol

 

 

 

Honestly, Bella bugged me till the last book. :laugh: She had zero sense of danger or self preservation.

 

I think it is sorta on topic though - some of the local homeschoolers I know - by no means all - get all freaky about which books their kids read, TV they watch, movies, etc and don't like to associate with people who don't censor as much as they do. The most challenging thing I've run across is that you aren't a good homeschooler if you don't use 'fill in the blank' curriculum because it isn't Bible based and things like that. I run into the same thing in the autism support community - if you don't do therapies x, y and z you aren't a good parent. I am a - if it works for you then great! - type person. I figure everyone has to make the best choices for their family and they may or may not fit my family.

[Crimson Wife]

I think it is sorta on topic though - some of the local homeschoolers I know - by no means all - get all freaky about which books their kids read, TV they watch, movies, etc and don't like to associate with people who don't censor as much as they do.

 

I censor the media my own kids are exposed to, but in most situations I don't care what other families choose to do with their own kids. Now I probably wouldn't do an unsupervised playdate or movie outing with a family that doesn't share my views on media, but it's not like I would shun them generally.

 

One of the reasons I instituted a "no sleepovers except at relatives' houses" rule was because of the media thing. It's easier to have a blanket ban than to get into it with my kids about why I'd be okay with family A but not families B, C, or D.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

OK

Girls who are Mean to girls....if no change is made, grow up to be women who are Mean to other women!

 

Christian women too!