Jump to content

Menu
Giving You and Your Child a Road Map to the Best Possible Education
The Well-Trained Mind Community

Trying to decide if today counts as a holiday...

Aubrey

By Aubrey,
in The Chat Board

 Share

Recommended Posts

Aubrey

Aubrey

Posted
Posted

I mean, being back on the boards...I shouldn't try to do school today, right? ;)

 

The phone repair people were here this morning. Between the turtle & Thurs school, the kitchen was a wreck, so we got that cleaned up when she called to say she was on her way. Then the baby pulled the coffee pot off the shelf from his highchair, so I was cleaning up old coffee & broken glass when she got here. (Thankfully I hadn't made coffee yet AND we have another pot.)

 

Then she had to check the jacks in the rest of the house, which I *didn't* clean. Oh my gosh. I'd asked dd to try to make my room presentable, just in case, but a) her def & mine are on different planets. I can't tell she WENT in my room. And B) the phone lady had to go in the kids' rooms, too. *faint*

 

But we made paths for her, got the kitchen & coffee & glass cleaned up, fed the baby, cleaned up the oatmeal he found later, & then I remembered ds had made coffee, which I reheated, & now here I am. I'm pretty sure if I close the computer you guys will disappear. And the last couple of weeks here have been kinda lonely, so I hate to risk it...

 

Update

 

We've moved & are living in CO Springs. This house is amazing--I've never had more than 1200 sf, & this is more than twice that. Dh got a contract in the project management field, & so far, he's LOVING it, which is the best bonus I can think of. I was told it would be otherwise a few mos ago by a "curious bystander." Well, not loving it would be a polite version of what was said.

 

Anyway. We are converting to Catholicism & coming into the Church at Easter. I'd decided to fake-convert when we moved here from TX. I was pg w/ #5, disillusioned from our time in seminary, &...well, many of you guys know how hard it is to be anything on the Protestant-Evangelical spectrum with 5+ kids. It was Catholicism or Atheism, so I was really hoping I could be Catholic.

 

I started RCIA in 2011, but when the baby came & was in NICU, etc, I just couldn't get up the energy to keep going. And the class...gosh, the lady who taught it was sweet, but the class was boring. In the mos I was there, the only thing they taught was stuff Christians could agree on across the board. And pretty soon, the Catholic stuff in the building--the statues, stained glass, vestments--started to freak me out. I realized either God & His Stuff looks like this or it doesn't. If I was going to spend eternity in a Catholic heaven, I kinda wanted to spend the rest of *this* life with something more familiar, you know? I guess what it comes down to is you can't fake-convert. Which I knew.

 

At some point during the mos that followed, I told someone I wanted SO badly to be Catholic. Like the way you want a guy you're dating to somehow make the unacceptable parts invisible. Like pretending he's not stupid so you can date him & just WISHING he'd keep his mouth shut so you can keep your delusion. lol

 

I found another parish that looked worth trying, & their RCIA was year-round AND on Sundays after mass, so--convenient to try. Dh had a test one Sun, so he needed the time to concentrate, so the kids & I went. If you can imagine a woman showing up w/ 5 kids by herself & practically shouting/begging--WHERE IS RCIA?? It was the Sun after Easter. I went to mass that day, too, & I told dh--it's the weirdest thing. None of it really made a lot of sense, although the sermon was good (can't remember it now). Mainly, though, I left with a ginger-flavored peace, like if you could taste the sun setting over the mountains, full of fizz.

 

They let me come every Sun w/ all the kids, who brought picnic lunches & toys & books, & they let me check books out from their library, & after a few Sundays, I asked dh--What if Jesus is really present in the Eucharist? I mean, I KNOW He's not, but...what IF?

 

I read Evangelical Is Not Enough by Thomas Howard, Elisabeth Eliot's brother, and a modern-day convert. This book had a greater impact on me than anything else I read, but at the same time, I encountered some beautiful Chesterton quotes & downloaded a free book of his, which dh & I began reading together. The logic of the books I read was alarming. I hadn't expected any of the "weird" parts of Catholicism to make sense, but the more I read, the harder it became to remember why I ever believed differently. Questions I've had since I was a *child* began to be answered--but with acceptable answers, not Christian-ese, if that makes sense.

 

Then I began reading the early church fathers. Finding the original sources & getting them in the right order, etc, is a monumental task. Excerpts quoted here & there in textbooks...well, the textbooks were biased, so I didn't feel like I could trust those. In a short time, dh's church history books from seminary became SO OBVIOUSLY wrong that we threw them out. I hope it was poor research & not malicious, but in a college textbook, even research THAT poor is...well, it's really, really bad. The book we threw out is so popular, so well-regarded that I'm haunted by how many people have read it, will read it, & will trust the information in it without question. I would have!

 

I didn't get very far into the writings of the early fathers--I was trying to simplify them for the kids, so it was slow-going, but it was also really dense. Ignatius of Antioch was my favorite. He talks about the necessity of unity in the Body & urges his followers: "Man by man, become a choir, that Jesus may be sung." Something like that, but more beautifully put.

 

Dh through all of this was...cautiously supportive? He wanted me in church & reasoned that the Catholics were "probably" Christians. He was pretty sure. We had so many long, long conversations, & when he finished his classes, he began coming to RCIA with me. I thought it was his imagination at first, but he was right: every time he asked a question, the lady who ran the thing sort-of twitched. But that's better than the church in FW whose leader escorted us to the door when she found out he'd been in a Baptist seminary!

 

Anyway, he got to the point that he said the theology made sense in his head sometimes, other times in his heart, but he could never get those to be the same. Honestly? That was more than I'd hoped for. We'd originally agreed to go to separate churches, raising the kids Evangelical. But more & more, I'd wanted to raise the kids Catholic, wanted to baptize the littles. And it's not like the bigs sat through all of this without an opinion--they were ready to convert before I was!

 

Dh had assented to the bigs converting. He came to the point that he was ok with the littles being baptized Catholic, because, in his words, there was no other church that would make sense any more. But part of that is promising to raise them Catholic. I asked the priest if I could promise to raise them as-Catholic-as-possible. Because until dh was more comfortable w/ the idea (if ever), I couldn't make that promise!

 

After a miraculous encounter w/ God which I can't explain, dh was ready to convert. So ready, he asked the priest if he could come in to the Church early. So ready, he wanted to try to Convert All The Protestants, lol. I pointed out that if he'd met himself before being ready to convert, he'd make himself run away, & he calmed down a little. He just...felt kind-of jipped to have not had the information about the historical church before hand.

 

One of the biggest differences for dh is the issue of calling, or vocation as it's called in the Catholic church. He'd struggled before with feeling called to be a pastor, going to seminary, & supporting a family. God FIRST, right? But the churches we'd attended during seminary would swallow up FIRST so that there was nothing left for second much less third. If you couldn't feed your family, remember: whoever leaves his family for Christ will be blessed. Not that he really bought into *that* but...it left him in Superman mode. Or maybe just...what's the horse's name in Animal Farm? "I must work harder." So he'd work harder & harder & HARDER until there was nothing left. I felt certain that we'd eventually lose our children (spiritually speaking) because of it. Something HAD to change.

 

Enter Catholicism. You can't be a married priest. (I know there are certain exceptions, but broadly speaking.) So. His CALL is to be a husband and father. Suddenly, his profession matters in a new way--it's not a cop-out our a less-holy calling or something. It's not an undercover evangelist opportunity. And he's able to bear the burden of life-responsibilities with a new fervor & cheer that has...always been near the surface for him, if that makes sense? Like, he had the *character* for it, but not the background to point him quite the right direction, so I'd see this man almost surface & then disappear, over & over during our marriage, & I would get frustrated.

 

Now? It's like I can see the man I married break through the ice & come up for air, & he's in a boat, & he's sailing for the shore. I hope he can say something nice like that about me, too, at least in the long run, but that would be another story.

 

***************************************************

 

You guys really deserve more details about other life circumstances, but I can't. Not now. *sigh* Plus, you know how wordy I am. It would kill the boards to say all the things I want to say. ;) I have a really good dr, though, & I think that someday I will be ok. I think the kids will be ok.

 

Now I really want to talk curriculum. I've tried to explain to dh how to do that, & he just can't. Not like y'all. He thinks it's a problem to be solved, not a philosophy to sit & discuss over coffee. I mean, if he approached the Meaning of Life like he approaches curriculum, we'd have a graph or a chart & be done in under an hour & be stuck w/ nothing to talk about. Well, except dead turtles. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aubrey

Aubrey

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I am so happy for you--and curious about what has happened since you left the boards... I completely understand needing to keep some things off the internet though.

 

It can be surmised from what I previously (last year) shared, but the details are still hair-curling. But I read the Curly Girls book, so I can handle anything. I still like my last labor nurse's mantra: You're coping well.

 

In some ways, coping with afterward is harder. You don't have the adrenaline.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Roadrunner

Roadrunner

Posted
Posted

 

We've moved & are living in CO Springs. This house is amazing--I've never had more than 1200 sf, & this is more than twice that. Dh got a contract in the project management field, & so far, he's LOVING it, which is the best bonus I can think of. I was told it would be otherwise a few mos ago by a "curious bystander." Well, not loving it would be a polite version of what was said.

 

You sound soooo happy and CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
unsinkable

unsinkable

Posted
Posted

Just to be clear, it's not a fake conversion any more, right?

 

Edit to add:

 

 

I want to be clear:

 

I am Catholic and all are welcome. I will slide down or give you my pew. LOL

 

But I think it is a HUUUUUUGE deal to convert and I want to make sure I understood that at one point it became not fake and really real.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest inoubliable

Guest inoubliable

Posted
Posted

 

Anyway. We are converting to Catholicism & coming into the Church at Easter. I'd decided to fake-convert when we moved here from TX. I was pg w/ #5, disillusioned from our time in seminary, &...well, many of you guys know how hard it is to be anything on the Protestant-Evangelical spectrum with 5+ kids. It was Catholicism or Atheism, so I was really hoping I could be Catholic.

 

:confused1:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aubrey

Aubrey

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Just to be clear, it's not a fake conversion any more, right?

 

Edit to add:

 

 

I want to be clear:

 

I am Catholic and all are welcome. I will slide down or give you my pew. LOL

 

But I think it is a HUUUUUUGE deal to convert and I want to make sure I understood that at one point it became not fake and really real.

 

 

Totally not fake any more. And the original reason for the fake-convert? The Catholic Church's teachings on family were the closest I could find to what I (really) believed. Catholic homeschooling families were often the most inspiring to me. I finally decided that our faith-lives were made up of something like 90% daily how-it-lives-out (you know, child-rearing, house-cleaning, size of family, ethical interactions, etc) & 10% theology-stuff. I figured a 90% match in a Catholic Church was closer than a 5% match in an Evangelical or Baptist church (because even there, I didn't have a full 10% agreement).

 

So there were genuine reasons even before I could be 100%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aubrey

Aubrey

Posted
  • Author
Posted

No kidding. Not sure how kid count has anything to do with religion. I have 6 because I can and we can afford to. And DH has really smart swimmers.;-)

 

 

Maybe it was just my personal experience! 4 was kind-of the unwritten limit in the churches we attended, & we got cross-eyed looks for that. We were told that for dh to be a proper pastor, we couldn't have any more children--sometimes in subtle ways, sometimes directly.

 

And it's not that we were just *dying* for more children, it's that we had ethical issues with birth control. No desire to push that on anyone else, just wanted a little breathing space to work that out on our own. Kwim?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
unsinkable

unsinkable

Posted
Posted

 

 

Totally not fake any more. And the original reason for the fake-convert? The Catholic Church's teachings on family were the closest I could find to what I (really) believed. Catholic homeschooling families were often the most inspiring to me. I finally decided that our faith-lives were made up of something like 90% daily how-it-lives-out (you know, child-rearing, house-cleaning, size of family, ethical interactions, etc) & 10% theology-stuff. I figured a 90% match in a Catholic Church was closer than a 5% match in an Evangelical or Baptist church (because even there, I didn't have a full 10% agreement).

 

So there were genuine reasons even before I could be 100%.

 

Welcome.

 

Now get pregnant again.

 

And start worshipping the Pope before his resignation is official.

 

LOL...I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Caroline

Caroline

Posted
Posted

 

 

Welcome.

 

Now get pregnant again.

 

And start worshipping the Pope before his resignation is official.

 

LOL...I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

 

I thought it was the saints you had to worship, not the Pope. I am going to make a really bad Catholic. (Just kidding about the Saints thing.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
unsinkable

unsinkable

Posted
Posted

 

 

The kidding is making me nervous...I can't tell which of you are kidding & which are not!

 

 

I am kidding.

 

I do not worship Mary, or the Saints or the Pope. It's an argument against Catholicism so I joke about it.

 

I am sorry if my joking is making you nervous. I'll tone it down.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Another Lynn

Another Lynn

Posted
Posted

Aubrey, I understood your post as your journey. I've never known you to be false about anything. I've always known you to step back and look at the whole picture. I always enjoy how you write about anything. And I'm so glad to see you here and read about some blessings and closure after rough times.

 

God bless you and your family! :grouphug:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Halftime Hope

Halftime Hope

Posted
Posted

Aubrey, welcome back! I'm so delighted that you are rejoining us! How I've missed you. I'm thrilled at all the answers you've found, even if finding them has been such a bumpy ride.

 

I'm still in a Baptist church, but I've just gotten to the place where I understand that, like many other places, people are just opinionated about things they've got no right to be. Sigh. I'm glad you've found something that works better for you!

 

I'll PM you with a bit of news.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG Gone Wild

LG Gone Wild

Posted
Posted

I mean, being back on the boards...I shouldn't try to do school today, right? ;)

 

The phone repair people were here this morning. Between the turtle & Thurs school, the kitchen was a wreck, so we got that cleaned up when she called to say she was on her way. Then the baby pulled the coffee pot off the shelf from his highchair, so I was cleaning up old coffee & broken glass when she got here. (Thankfully I hadn't made coffee yet AND we have another pot.)

 

Then she had to check the jacks in the rest of the house, which I *didn't* clean. Oh my gosh. I'd asked dd to try to make my room presentable, just in case, but a) her def & mine are on different planets. I can't tell she WENT in my room. And B) the phone lady had to go in the kids' rooms, too. *faint*

 

But we made paths for her, got the kitchen & coffee & glass cleaned up, fed the baby, cleaned up the oatmeal he found later, & then I remembered ds had made coffee, which I reheated, & now here I am. I'm pretty sure if I close the computer you guys will disappear. And the last couple of weeks here have been kinda lonely, so I hate to risk it...

 

Update

 

We've moved & are living in CO Springs. This house is amazing--I've never had more than 1200 sf, & this is more than twice that. Dh got a contract in the project management field, & so far, he's LOVING it, which is the best bonus I can think of. I was told it would be otherwise a few mos ago by a "curious bystander." Well, not loving it would be a polite version of what was said.

 

Anyway. We are converting to Catholicism & coming into the Church at Easter. I'd decided to fake-convert when we moved here from TX. I was pg w/ #5, disillusioned from our time in seminary, &...well, many of you guys know how hard it is to be anything on the Protestant-Evangelical spectrum with 5+ kids. It was Catholicism or Atheism, so I was really hoping I could be Catholic.

 

I started RCIA in 2011, but when the baby came & was in NICU, etc, I just couldn't get up the energy to keep going. And the class...gosh, the lady who taught it was sweet, but the class was boring. In the mos I was there, the only thing they taught was stuff Christians could agree on across the board. And pretty soon, the Catholic stuff in the building--the statues, stained glass, vestments--started to freak me out. I realized either God & His Stuff looks like this or it doesn't. If I was going to spend eternity in a Catholic heaven, I kinda wanted to spend the rest of *this* life with something more familiar, you know? I guess what it comes down to is you can't fake-convert. Which I knew.

 

At some point during the mos that followed, I told someone I wanted SO badly to be Catholic. Like the way you want a guy you're dating to somehow make the unacceptable parts invisible. Like pretending he's not stupid so you can date him & just WISHING he'd keep his mouth shut so you can keep your delusion. lol

 

I found another parish that looked worth trying, & their RCIA was year-round AND on Sundays after mass, so--convenient to try. Dh had a test one Sun, so he needed the time to concentrate, so the kids & I went. If you can imagine a woman showing up w/ 5 kids by herself & practically shouting/begging--WHERE IS RCIA?? It was the Sun after Easter. I went to mass that day, too, & I told dh--it's the weirdest thing. None of it really made a lot of sense, although the sermon was good (can't remember it now). Mainly, though, I left with a ginger-flavored peace, like if you could taste the sun setting over the mountains, full of fizz.

 

They let me come every Sun w/ all the kids, who brought picnic lunches & toys & books, & they let me check books out from their library, & after a few Sundays, I asked dh--What if Jesus is really present in the Eucharist? I mean, I KNOW He's not, but...what IF?

 

I read Evangelical Is Not Enough by Thomas Howard, Elisabeth Eliot's brother, and a modern-day convert. This book had a greater impact on me than anything else I read, but at the same time, I encountered some beautiful Chesterton quotes & downloaded a free book of his, which dh & I began reading together. The logic of the books I read was alarming. I hadn't expected any of the "weird" parts of Catholicism to make sense, but the more I read, the harder it became to remember why I ever believed differently. Questions I've had since I was a *child* began to be answered--but with acceptable answers, not Christian-ese, if that makes sense.

 

Then I began reading the early church fathers. Finding the original sources & getting them in the right order, etc, is a monumental task. Excerpts quoted here & there in textbooks...well, the textbooks were biased, so I didn't feel like I could trust those. In a short time, dh's church history books from seminary became SO OBVIOUSLY wrong that we threw them out. I hope it was poor research & not malicious, but in a college textbook, even research THAT poor is...well, it's really, really bad. The book we threw out is so popular, so well-regarded that I'm haunted by how many people have read it, will read it, & will trust the information in it without question. I would have!

 

I didn't get very far into the writings of the early fathers--I was trying to simplify them for the kids, so it was slow-going, but it was also really dense. Ignatius of Antioch was my favorite. He talks about the necessity of unity in the Body & urges his followers: "Man by man, become a choir, that Jesus may be sung." Something like that, but more beautifully put.

 

Dh through all of this was...cautiously supportive? He wanted me in church & reasoned that the Catholics were "probably" Christians. He was pretty sure. We had so many long, long conversations, & when he finished his classes, he began coming to RCIA with me. I thought it was his imagination at first, but he was right: every time he asked a question, the lady who ran the thing sort-of twitched. But that's better than the church in FW whose leader escorted us to the door when she found out he'd been in a Baptist seminary!

 

Anyway, he got to the point that he said the theology made sense in his head sometimes, other times in his heart, but he could never get those to be the same. Honestly? That was more than I'd hoped for. We'd originally agreed to go to separate churches, raising the kids Evangelical. But more & more, I'd wanted to raise the kids Catholic, wanted to baptize the littles. And it's not like the bigs sat through all of this without an opinion--they were ready to convert before I was!

 

Dh had assented to the bigs converting. He came to the point that he was ok with the littles being baptized Catholic, because, in his words, there was no other church that would make sense any more. But part of that is promising to raise them Catholic. I asked the priest if I could promise to raise them as-Catholic-as-possible. Because until dh was more comfortable w/ the idea (if ever), I couldn't make that promise!

 

After a miraculous encounter w/ God which I can't explain, dh was ready to convert. So ready, he asked the priest if he could come in to the Church early. So ready, he wanted to try to Convert All The Protestants, lol. I pointed out that if he'd met himself before being ready to convert, he'd make himself run away, & he calmed down a little. He just...felt kind-of jipped to have not had the information about the historical church before hand.

 

One of the biggest differences for dh is the issue of calling, or vocation as it's called in the Catholic church. He'd struggled before with feeling called to be a pastor, going to seminary, & supporting a family. God FIRST, right? But the churches we'd attended during seminary would swallow up FIRST so that there was nothing left for second much less third. If you couldn't feed your family, remember: whoever leaves his family for Christ will be blessed. Not that he really bought into *that* but...it left him in Superman mode. Or maybe just...what's the horse's name in Animal Farm? "I must work harder." So he'd work harder & harder & HARDER until there was nothing left. I felt certain that we'd eventually lose our children (spiritually speaking) because of it. Something HAD to change.

 

Enter Catholicism. You can't be a married priest. (I know there are certain exceptions, but broadly speaking.) So. His CALL is to be a husband and father. Suddenly, his profession matters in a new way--it's not a cop-out our a less-holy calling or something. It's not an undercover evangelist opportunity. And he's able to bear the burden of life-responsibilities with a new fervor & cheer that has...always been near the surface for him, if that makes sense? Like, he had the *character* for it, but not the background to point him quite the right direction, so I'd see this man almost surface & then disappear, over & over during our marriage, & I would get frustrated.

 

Now? It's like I can see the man I married break through the ice & come up for air, & he's in a boat, & he's sailing for the shore. I hope he can say something nice like that about me, too, at least in the long run, but that would be another story.

 

***************************************************

 

You guys really deserve more details about other life circumstances, but I can't. Not now. *sigh* Plus, you know how wordy I am. It would kill the boards to say all the things I want to say. ;) I have a really good dr, though, & I think that someday I will be ok. I think the kids will be ok.

 

Now I really want to talk curriculum. I've tried to explain to dh how to do that, & he just can't. Not like y'all. He thinks it's a problem to be solved, not a philosophy to sit & discuss over coffee. I mean, if he approached the Meaning of Life like he approaches curriculum, we'd have a graph or a chart & be done in under an hour & be stuck w/ nothing to talk about. Well, except dead turtles. ;)

 

 

Well how about that for a "Welcome back thread"? LOL Thank you for sharing your story. I understood all that you meant. You would be a fun Catholic blogger as you clearly understand tongue and cheek and self-deprecation.

 

Your story reminded me a joke that Bill Cosby uses. He likes to say that his shop class was filled with kids were on the verge of becoming criminals or priests. I had a fork in the road moment like that as well.

 

Peace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Juniper

Juniper

Posted
Posted

Aubrey we need you!!!!! Your amazing stories, beautiful heart, and inherent wisdom. I think I will keep my gush to your praises rather than sully it with anything else, but suffice it to say...I am glad you are back!

 

 

 

.....although I am still a little resentful you and mouse ditched me on the conversion path. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dandelion

Dandelion

Posted
Posted

Thank you for sharing this, Aubrey. I caught a bit of your story before you took your board break, and it's wonderful to hear that things are starting to fall into place for your family. And welcome to Colorado Springs! :seeya: We've lived here (on the north side of town) for 12 years and really love it. I hope your family will too. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...