moving up to pre-algebra?

[anabelneri]

Hello!

 

I'm hoping someone here has suggestions, or even just tell me I'm crazy.

 

My elder daughter has been plugging along in MEP for the past couple years. We're about to finish Year 4 in the next couple weeks, but I'm not entirely sure that simply moving up to Year 5 is the best option. Until recently she's been slow about math, but over Christmas we really started working on her math facts, and math has become much, much easier. I'm pretty sure that it was just her math facts slowing her down. Also, we've been doing fractions and decimals, and she's finding them extremely easy. When I look at what is coming up in the next year or so, a lot of it she has already covered on Khan Academy last year, or it's stuff that I'm pretty sure she has the grounding for and will just need a little practice.

 

On top of this, I keep reading books about g-kids (dd generally runs verbally advanced rather than mathematically, but she's awesome at most conceptual thinking) that leave me with the sense that the best thing I could do for her would be to jump to pre-algebra or geometry, catching up the arithmetic skills as necessary. Do you know that feeling where you're not sure if the kid is bored or if they are have little ADD? That's where we're at. So maybe jumping into the more conceptual math material would be good for her.

 

I was looking at MEP Year 7, and I think that she could largely handle the material without much additional instruction in arithmetic In some places it says that Year 7 is at least partially pre-algebra. Or I suppose I could switch programs altogether. I like the idea of AOPS, but dd hated Beast Academy... she's not a discovery-math kind of kid, at least at this stage. Any other ideas? Experiences?

 

Thanks ever so much!

[Dmmetler]

My DD decided, last Spring, in SM 4B (and having done LoF Fractions), that she wanted to start algebra NOW. And she didn't want Dragon Box or Hands on Equations, she wanted ALGEBRA. Real algebra.

 

So, I dithered. I wasn't ready to move her on yet, and I'd always thought of her as more of a "language" kid than a "math" kid. SO to have her demand more math was a little scary.

 

She started printing out placement tests online and doing them to show me that she was ready, but I remembered reading that the AOPS placement test was easier than the class, so I didn't worry too much, and while she tested into Saxon Algebra, I knew that she'd hate Saxon.

 

I finally agreed to give her an online math test and sat and watched her do it. She maxed the thing out, including skills that I was pretty sure she'd never done before (mostly area and volume calculations).

 

I caved. I told her that if she could do a quick run through SM 5A/B and do the new topics there, plus Fred Decimals/Percents, we'd go on to PRE Algebra this fall. And I hedged my bets by buying her a subscription to Mathletics, and setting it at 5th grade to start, figuring she'd fill in the gaps there.

 

At this point, she's finished the first LoF Pre-Algebra book and will probably finish the 2nd before May, as well as the first four Key to Algebra workbooks, and has made it through her mathletics subscription to the point where it's now regularly introducing topics before Fred is. I no longer doubt that she was truly ready to make a big jump and move on. My plan for next year is to continue with what's working-and pray she doesn't need to do a big jump.

 

Furthermore, something else happened along the way. My languagy, tolerates math kid ended up loving math, and wanting more and more of it. She's gotten very into doing contest math, and is enjoying the different problem sets and problem solving activities. She makes up math riddles and finds functions in everyday life. She talks "math" constantly. Her "school" time has expanded, because she'll now often spend 2 hours or more on math in the morning, and then spend the entire afternoon writing her stories and playing with words. She's stopped pushing through curriculum at light speed, and instead is really diving in deep and relishing it. I'm seeing improvements in social skills, too, where she's more able to play with kids closer to her age and not try to force them into her mold, but fit into theirs. It's like now that her brain is getting that outlet, she's able to truly be herself.

 

Math wasn't the only thing we changed-we started doing Athena's academy classes this year as well, and I think those discussions in class and the chatboards have helped as well, and I got her onto some discussion forums and into some groups with adults who share her interests, and I believe that has helped, too-but the change really came when she started accelerating her math, at about this time last year.

 

 

 

So, my thought is this-if your DD is asking to jump, LET HER. It may be just what is needed.

[Crimson Wife]

I accelerated my DD to pre-algebra using Singapore Discovering Math 7 after she finished Primary Math 5A. She is also strongest verbally but her EXPLORE math scores showed that I had been underestimating what she could do in math. DM 7 gets into the easier parts of algebra 1 and H.S. geometry so it is one of the more intellectually challenging of the pre-algebra options. AOPS would not be a good "fit" because of the discovery approach. She prefers a more traditional instructional style where she is shown what to do rather than having to puzzle it out for herself.

[Lilaclady]

my dd1 is doing MEP5 but also doing a prealgebra program so we use them concurrently. while I believe she can move on and do the prealgebra by itself, I really like the way MEP gives kids a solid foundation in arithmetic. It really helps with critical thinking and logic too. Since most of the problems kids have with upper level math is that they do not have a firm foundation in arithmetic, I really want her to be solid before we move on. She will continue with MEP 6 and start Algebra next semester.

[serendipitous journey]

We are looking at Singapore's Discovering Math Common Core, or perhaps the Galore Park So You Really Want to Learn Maths books. Still not sure; I'm incorporating the SYRWTLM as we do SM5B to see how it suits.

 

One advantage, from my perspective, to Discovering Math CC is that it covers (I believe) the contents of algebra 1 in the first 2 years. I'm looking at the Epsilon Math Camp for Button when he's older, if he's eligible, and knowledge of basic algebra is a requirement.

[serendipitous journey]

my dd1 is doing MEP5 but also doing a prealgebra program so we use them concurrently. while I believe she can move on and do the prealgebra by itself, I really like the way MEP gives kids a solid foundation in arithmetic. It really helps with critical thinking and logic too. Since most of the problems kids have with upper level math is that they do not have a firm foundation in arithmetic, I really want her to be solid before we move on. She will continue with MEP 6 and start Algebra next semester.

 

Which prealgebra, may I ask?

[Lilaclady]

AOPS pre algebra.

[StephanieZ]

I haven't seen Beast Academy, so I don't know how different it is from AoPS. We love AoPS. You could easily resell the AoPS PreA book if it turned out to be a poor fit.

 

One thing I loved about SM was how easy it was to zip through quickly when it was easy for a child. That reduced the pressure to skip levels. (Although I did allow my youngest to skip SM6 and go straight into PreA from SM5.)

 

Is there a way in your math curricula to just do the review sets, or the chapter quizzes, or whatever, to check for competency quickly before moving on?

 

In general, I think it is just very important that arithmetic and PreA skills be VERY solid before leaving that work behind and moving on to "real" algebra. "Playing a bit with expressions and equations earlier is certainly fine.) So, I'd just be sure the child is really super solid in all the skills being "skipped". A good PreA program pretty much reviews all of elementary math, so it should catch a minor missing area here or there, but if there are large areas of missing knowledge, it could get very frustrating very quickly. Certainly all math FACTS must be completely mastered before attempting a real PreA program.

[serendipitous journey]

I posted above about using Singapore's Discovering Math Common Core, but have changed my mind, and wanted to share why -- since you are also at the pre-algebra/algebra, but not AoPs phase of things (in our case, Button is just too young for AoPS -- they agree :) ).

 

Button is, unexpectedly, very near completing Singapore 5B which I'd planned to take us until June. He was displaying those bored/ADD signs --though he isn't ADD per se -- and so I skipped to the end-of-text review pages. He will need 1 week to cover what he didn't already know, and that's it.

 

I rang Rainbow Resources on a related question -- I thought we'd spend some time with RightStart's geometry as a treat after SM5, since geometry is a topic he likes, and wanted RR's advice on this -- and they pointed out that Discovering Math Common Core only has 1 year of books available now. So unless Button slows down A LOT , we'll run out of SM math for him in that program in the next year. Or the next 2. At any rate, I don't want to begin with him anything in secondary math that doesn't go through pre-calculus. So our plan is to combine the RS Geometry with Galore Park's So You Really Want to Learn Maths. Book 1 is largely review from Singapore, so we'll work through the new sections, review the old, and then go on to book 2.

 

... I wanted to share these thoughts in case they are of use to anybody else, and to correct my earlier posts RE our plans.

 

also -- Galore Park is very very thorough about fact inclusion, though another boardie suggests using something for review as you go b/c it isn't spiral at all (she suggested Bond review books, I can find them if you want -- they are at Book Depository). And it has interesting cultural math information in the text, so it feels a bit MEP-y to me -- Roman numerals, interesting background/stories &c; and a bit of a puzzle-like feel to some problems. It tries to both stretch the most-able and to interest & intrigue the math-reluctant ...

[Crimson Wife]

DM 8 CCS is SUPPOSED to be available this summer. If it isn't, we're in trouble because that's what I've got planned for the fall and what has been approved through our virtual charter for algebra 1. I do have Larson Elementary Algebra on my shelf and can use that to tide us over for a few months if, say, 8A comes out in October rather than July or August.

 

I'm not sure if DM 3 and 4 are going to be revised to reflect Common Core but it is still TBD exactly how far I'm going to take DD in the series before needing to outsource math. I'm going to cross that bridge when I come to it. :)

[serendipitous journey]

DM 8 CCS is SUPPOSED to be available this summer. If it isn't, we're in trouble because that's what I've got planned for the fall and what has been approved through our virtual charter for algebra 1. I do have Larson Elementary Algebra on my shelf and can use that to tide us over for a few months if, say, 8A comes out in October rather than July or August.

 

I'm not sure if DM 3 and 4 are going to be revised to reflect Common Core but it is still TBD exactly how far I'm going to take DD in the series before needing to outsource math. I'm going to cross that bridge when I come to it. :)

 

I just noticed this as I go through my periodic math woes ... I've finally figured out that SYRWTLM doesn't go nearly as far as I'd like and I think, like you, I'll cross the bridge upper-year Discovering Math when we come to it ...

[Crimson Wife]

California has come out with new self-paced online courses that have U.C. a-g approval (important for state residents who might want to send their kids to a U.C. or C.S.U. school) and would be free to our family through our virtual charter. Private and out-of-state students can enroll for $19 per course BTW.

 

So if DM 8A is not available by the time the new school year starts in August, I will probably have my DD start the Algebra 1 course through UC Scout even if the beginning of it looks like it would be mostly review from DM 7.

[Arcadia]

California has come out with new self-paced online courses that have U.C. a-g approval (important for state residents who might want to send their kids to a U.C. or C.S.U. school) and would be free to our family through our virtual charter.

 

That would be a nice option to have if we wish to switch from the virtual academy to Ocean Grove. They even have AP Statistics and AP Calculus as course offerings.

[Dmmetler]

$19/course sounds great, especially compared to other online high school options. What are the textbook requirements?