Do Normal Kids Get Distracted While Eating? (Was: Jeckyll and Hyde Child)

[JumpyTheFrog]

ETA: I changed the title to reflect my questions post 16 about distracted eating.

 

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Does moodiness (meaning going back and forth between being happy and being very disrespectful, yelling at me, and throwing tantrums) ever go with ADHD? Tigger is impulsive and has very poor emotional control. He is also super wiggley and has more energy than everyone I know.

 

I am almost done with a book about SPD, but for the most part, it doesn't sound like him, although from age 2-5, he did severely whine, cry, or yell every single time we washed his hair, no matter what. Once he turned 5 he was able to restrain himself enough to make hair washing just annoying, rather than an all out battle.

 

Right now, he is singing and sweeping the floor. A minute ago, he gave me his favorite blanket to cheer me up. Of course, I need cheering up because he has been yelling at me, sticking his tongue out, outright disobeying, and stomping around on and off for three days. Today and Monday were especially awful, although he's been a challenging, active, super-alert kid since before birth.

 

I don't know many 6-7 year old boys, so I have a hard time figuring out where the line between normal immaturity/impulsiveness/emotional overreaction and a real problem is.

[unsinkable]

Food sensitivities ?

 

Not enough protein?

[AnIslandGirl]

we go through the HALT list... hungry, angry, lonely or tired? As long as those needs are all met, our house is peaceful. If not, watch out!

[Unicorn.]

Does moodiness (meaning going back and forth between being happy and being very disrespectful, yelling at me, and throwing tantrums) ever go with ADHD? Tigger is impulsive and has very poor emotional control. He is also super wiggley and has more energy than everyone I know. Yes, moodiness is a big part of it

 

I am almost done with a book about SPD, but for the most part, it doesn't sound like him, although from age 2-5, he did severely whine, cry, or yell every single time we washed his hair, no matter what. Once he turned 5 he was able to restrain himself enough to make hair washing just annoying, rather than an all out battle. That is a sensory issue, sometimes they are big, sometimes small

 

Right now, he is singing and sweeping the floor. A minute ago, he gave me his favorite blanket to cheer me up. Of course, I need cheering up because he has been yelling at me, sticking his tongue out, outright disobeying, and stomping around on and off for three days. Today and Monday were especially awful, although he's been a challenging, active, super-alert kid since before birth. This, along with the bolded in your first paragraph shout AD/HD to me

 

I don't know many 6-7 year old boys, so I have a hard time figuring out where the line between normal immaturity/impulsiveness/emotional overreaction and a real problem is.

 

Quick answers in red...

 

Anger, depression, sensory issues, mild ocd behaviors, can all be a part of ad/hd. I would also take a look at his diet and sleep patterns. You may want to pay attention to how he reacts to dairy, corn, wheat, food colorings, and even some fruits. These are all foods that set my ds off (including some apples and grapes), and are pretty common triggers. Sleep is another one. Is this a kid who doesn't sleep much? Never did? Dd has to take valerian root or she doesn't reach REM- and it caused major anger issues. And as a pp stated, protein does help. Think high protein, low carb!

[briansmama]

While I agree with the pp advice about looking into your ds diet, especially food additives and gluten/dairy, I'd also add that Waldorf Ed talks a lot about the developmental changes a 6-7 yr old goes through, and again at age 9-10. We are going through the 9yr change right now with my oldest and it looks a lot like you describe- mood swings, general unhappiness, unsettled...he went through a milder form at age 6+ and it lasted about 6 months.

 

This child can't seem to make up his mind- one minute he fights and argues strongly for something and then the next day he doesn't even want to do it anymore. It's a trying time, especially because he is a pretty positive, grounded person usually.

[JumpyTheFrog]

He has been gluten-free since birth. He is also dairy free. He doesn't get many food dyes because of our restrictions, but I have thought we need a strict elimination diet. (My brother is moody and argumentative when he has gluten.)

[JumpyTheFrog]

He does best when he gets to bed by 7:30 (so he gets 12 hours of sleep) but he's still a tough kid, even with that. We already try hard to give him lots of protein because he becomes totally irrational when hungry. However, I still think there's more to it than being overtired and hypoglycemia.

 

Like I said, keeping on top of those things helps, but isn't enough. It's like everything in his life has to be just right or we end up walking on egg shells to keep him from exploding at us.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Is this a kid who doesn't sleep much?

 

He needs about 12 hours, but will almost never admit he's tired. He tells us he's tired and wants to sleep about twice a year.

 

He was a terrible, terrible napper as a baby. It was like he didn't want to miss anything, and his self-calming skills were horrible, even by baby standards. He would wake up every ten minutes and it would take me 30-45 minutes to get him back to sleep for another ten minutes. By seven months old, he could finally nap for more than 45 minutes. He never did before that, except the day he was born.

 

Once my mom visited for a week and bought a ton of fruit. He went absolutely nuts. Even she agreed that it affected his behavior. This was when he was about five.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I'd also add that Waldorf Ed talks a lot about the developmental changes a 6-7 yr old goes through, and again at age 9-10.

 

 

Unfortunately, babyhood and from 3 1/2 on have been rough, so for Tigger, it's more than just a developmental change (although there could be that on top of whatever issue he has). He was a good toddler and two year old though!

[LNC]

Does moodiness (meaning going back and forth between being happy and being very disrespectful, yelling at me, and throwing tantrums) ever go with ADHD? Tigger is impulsive and has very poor emotional control. He is also super wiggley and has more energy than everyone I know.

 

I am almost done with a book about SPD, but for the most part, it doesn't sound like him, although from age 2-5, he did severely whine, cry, or yell every single time we washed his hair, no matter what. Once he turned 5 he was able to restrain himself enough to make hair washing just annoying, rather than an all out battle.

 

Right now, he is singing and sweeping the floor. A minute ago, he gave me his favorite blanket to cheer me up. Of course, I need cheering up because he has been yelling at me, sticking his tongue out, outright disobeying, and stomping around on and off for three days. Today and Monday were especially awful, although he's been a challenging, active, super-alert kid since before birth.

 

I don't know many 6-7 year old boys, so I have a hard time figuring out where the line between normal immaturity/impulsiveness/emotional overreaction and a real problem is.

 

I have two older more severely disabled sons - a teen and adult. Their highly regarded pediatric neurologist actually left neurology for sleep medicine bc she is convinced that what is being diagnosed as adhd is actually sleep disorders. I'll pm you personal info. :)

[dbmamaz]

when my son was being diagnosed, i was told that adhd was usually pretty consistent. I would say that depression and all those other things are often found WITH adhd, but are not SYMPTOMS of adhd . . . just like tourettes, which my son has - many other issues are very common in tourettes, but they are not part of tourettes, they are just very common 'comorbid' issues. so your son could be adhd AND (who knows what) . . . i mean, mood swings like that can be food issues, or bipolar, or very mild seizures, or maybe just something he'll mature out of. i would definitely ask your doctor and . .. idk, stock up on blankies or whatever else helps with stress . . . i assume you've read some of the 'challenging kid' type books?

[mamatohaleybug]

For my DD, yes, moodiness and explosiveness are a huge part of her ADHD (she has extremely poor impulse control). Meds have been the only thing that have helped enough (and the difference with meds is like night and day). Enough sleep helps. Homeschooling to deal with anxiety helps. Eliminating some foods helps. Counseling was somewhat helpful as far as replacing bad habits with better ones but only once the meds were working. We tried everything and only ritalin-based meds help her truly be in control and attentive. I wish it wasn't the case. I'd love for her not to be on them but it seems so unfair to her (she was very depressed and anxious before we finally started the meds).

 

DD also has SPD and some other issues. Therapy (OT) helped a lot with those issues.

 

Hugs!

[JumpyTheFrog]

DH encourage Tigger to do something to to make up for all the yelling at me. Tigger got out his cookbook and made cookies for me. (I only had to help a little.) Then he brought down a board game and announced that we should play a game to cheer me up.

 

 

[swellmomma]

I have two older more severely disabled sons - a teen and adult. Their highly regarded pediatric neurologist actually left neurology for sleep medicine bc she is convinced that what is being diagnosed as adhd is actually sleep disorders. I'll pm you personal info. :)

 

me too! me too! I have yet to find anything that really helps my jekyll and hyde son,

[JumpyTheFrog]

Other things that might help other with more experience decide if this might be ADHD or something else:

 

-When we leave basketball or TKD, if a teammate says bye to Tigger, he either doesn't notice it or needs to be prompted to respond. I assumed this was normal for boys this age, but maybe it isn't? He almost never thinks to go up to them to say bye on his own.

 

-He seems unable to stay seated while eating a meal. He tries to get off his seat repeatedly. If I am doing dishes while he eats, it's not uncommon for us to have to tell him 5-10 times in twenty minutes to sit back down and eat. If we aren't there, he will often wander off to play and then come back and claim he wasn't done eating. I got so frustrated with the dragged out meals (him getting distracted from eating, despite often being very hungry) that I posted about it a few months ago. If he has a book, he does a much better job staying seated, but still forgets to actually eat much. He'll eat, but at a slow rate that still drags meals out.

[TammyS]

Other things that might help other with more experience decide if this might be ADHD or something else:

 

-When we leave basketball or TKD, if a teammate says bye to Tigger, he either doesn't notice it or needs to be prompted to respond. I assumed this was normal for boys this age, but maybe it isn't? He almost never thinks to go up to them to say bye on his own.

 

-He seems unable to stay seated while eating a meal. He tries to get off his seat repeatedly. If I am doing dishes while he eats, it's not uncommon for us to have to tell him 5-10 times in twenty minutes to sit back down and eat. If we aren't there, he will often wander off to play and then come back and claim he wasn't done eating. I got so frustrated with the dragged out meals (him getting distracted from eating, despite often being very hungry) that I posted about it a few months ago. If he has a book, he does a much better job staying seated, but still forgets to actually eat much. He'll eat, but at a slow rate that still drags meals out.

 

 

Not always responding to people who speak to them is totally common with lots of kids. They need prompting and practice.

 

If he's being left along to eat, it's not surprise to me that he's getting up and wandering around. That's totally common. Eating may be necessary, but for a 6 year old boy it's hardly entertaining. If you can't all eat together, at least have someone sit with him and remind him that he needs to stay in his seat until he's excused. If he gets up, take the plate away and the meal is over. But I don't think you can reasonably expect a 6 year old boy to sit by himself and eat without messing about.

[PachiSusan]

IF it's not normal, then my 10 year old girl is abnormal. Since day 1, if she isn't finished in 15 minutes, she will grow tired and bored of eating and be up and down up and down up and down. We had to institute "We tell you once. After that the food goes away if you leave the table". She had a horrible consequence one time where she got up and my dad took her food and put it in the dog bowl. She doesn't leave much anymore.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I thought the not responding to people might be normal.

 

As far as eating, he gets off his seat over and over and over even if I am at the table eating with him. I remind him continually to sit back down and finish eating. If I am doing dishes, he's only a few feet away and I also keep reminding him. Taking his food away if he doesn't stay at the table doesn't seem to work. It's almost like he can't keep himself sitting there, rather than he doesn't want to.

 

On the other hand, he sits quietly (often reading) through church without any problems.

[Soror]

My son (9 in July) does the same blasted thing. He hates sitting to eat. He can make it through church as well and can read if he is really engrossed otherwise it seems very difficult for him to stay seated.

[TammyS]

I thought the not responding to people might be normal.

 

As far as eating, he gets off his seat over and over and over even if I am at the table eating with him. I remind him continually to sit back down and finish eating. If I am doing dishes, he's only a few feet away and I also keep reminding him. Taking his food away if he doesn't stay at the table doesn't seem to work. It's almost like he can't keep himself sitting there, rather than he doesn't want to.

 

On the other hand, he sits quietly (often reading) through church without any problems.

 

 

So clearly he can sit quietly for enough length of time.

 

I'm wondering if he's actually hungry at dinner time? Is he having a snack or even just too much water, close to dinner?

Or are you letting him get extra helpings that maybe he doesn't really want, but only realizes it after he's got it?

[Lady Florida.]

He was a terrible, terrible napper as a baby. It was like he didn't want to miss anything, and his self-calming skills were horrible, even by baby standards. He would wake up every ten minutes and it would take me 30-45 minutes to get him back to sleep for another ten minutes. By seven months old, he could finally nap for more than 45 minutes. He never did before that, except the day he was born.

 

 

 

Ds was like this. He took cat naps through most of his baby years. As a toddler, if he napped more than 45 minutes it meant he was sick or getting sick. He still doesn't sleep much. The doctor who officially diagnosed him said most people with adhd don't get a lot of sleep - not because they don't need it, but because they have trouble shutting their brains down. Yes, this happens to most people, but more so with those who have adhd.

 

-He seems unable to stay seated while eating a meal. He tries to get off his seat repeatedly. If I am doing dishes while he eats, it's not uncommon for us to have to tell him 5-10 times in twenty minutes to sit back down and eat. If we aren't there, he will often wander off to play and then come back and claim he wasn't done eating. I got so frustrated with the dragged out meals (him getting distracted from eating, despite often being very hungry) that I posted about it a few months ago. If he has a book, he does a much better job staying seated, but still forgets to actually eat much. He'll eat, but at a slow rate that still drags meals out.

 

 

Ds had trouble staying seated to eat, even though we all sat down and ate together. I would recommend trying to get him officially diagnosed if you can. There are a lot of things that can mimic adhd. Some of the requirements are:

-It needs to have been evident before age 7 (throwing the theory that it's a "school" problem out the window)

-It needs to be evident in more than one setting.

-It is markedly different from normal age appropriate behaviors. Yes, most young children can't sit still. Yes, many have short attention spans. This is not adhd. Adhd is different and if you have a child who has it, you can see the differences between your child and his peers.

 

Honestly from what you say it does sound like adhd, and has obviously been evident from an early age. I'd still see about getting an official dx if you can.

[Ottakee]

Is he treated for the ADHD? It could be just that but my dd was like that SUPER ADHD........but really she has a mood disorder, bipolar and the rapid mood swings and super hyper behavior were major signs. Her depression was more like irritability. She was very intense. Any given thing I would say she did was "typical" for a child of her age but she did those things all to extremes. Toddlers climb---she could scale a brick wall, toddlers through tantrums----hers were way worse, more intense, longer, etc. Kids are active---she wore out a neuropsychologist who was trying to test her, etc.

 

I am not saying you have a mood disorder going on but the book THE BIPOLAR CHILD might be helpful. Read it and see if it fits.

 

I would also encourage a full physical with blood work as blood sugar issues, thyroid, anemia, etc. can all cause some behavioral issues.

[Arcadia]

Like I said, keeping on top of those things helps, but isn't enough. It's like everything in his life has to be just right or we end up walking on egg shells to keep him from exploding at us.

 

 

Just for the above, I would get an evaluation. Your son could be just a hyper bored very bright and intense child. However the 2nd guessing and having to walk on egg shells is probably going to stress you out sooner or later :(

 

My kids get distracted eating at home and would move about. However at fast food places or other sit down places (including friends' homes) they will sit and finish their meals.

[sbgrace]

My son has always been distracted while eating. It's bad enough that I really think it affects his growth. But he's never still anywhere. I think ADHD kids with a hyperactivity component might have issues with distraction while eating.

 

My son is poorly emotional regulated too. I know others addressed your OP but I think I saw another thread about getting up to sneak access to a phone in the mornings. If that is you and the same child could his poor mood be related to missing sleep because of that phone? My poorly regulated child is much, much worse when tired (or hungry, but tired is the worst).

[JumpyTheFrog]

I'm wondering if he's actually hungry at dinner time?

 

 

Yes, he is definitely hungry when this happens. He'll keep getting off his seat even if he asked (or begged) for a meal or snack. He's always had a high metabolism and eaten a lot for his age, probably because of how much he moves around. (The only thing that tires him out, for even a few minutes, is to run 3 miles in under 30 minutes.)

 

Honestly from what you say it does sound like adhd, and has obviously been evident from an early age. I'd still see about getting an official dx if you can.

 

 

How would I get a good, official diagnosis? I want to deal with somebody with more experience than a pediatrician whose first reaction is to prescribe drugs.

 

Is he treated for the ADHD?

 

 

He's never been diagnosed with anything. It's just that now it's getting to the point that DH just thinks he wants to be "bad" or something and I am wondering if something else is going on.

 

Just for the above, I would get an evaluation. Your son could be just a hyper bored very bright and intense child.

 

 

Yes, he is very bright and is working several years ahead in much of his school work (with me as his scribe for some of it). We know he'd have a terrible time at school and would be bored and bouncing off the walls like crazy. He's always been intense, but it's hard for me to tell if it's just intense or something more.

 

As far as being bored, we work hard to keep him busy. Every week he has: 2 hours of basketball, 1-2 hours of tae kwon do, 1 hour of gymnastics. When basketball is over, he'll have tennis, then when that is over, running and soccer start. We did a month of drum lessons (which he enjoyed, but hasn't asked to continue). I've spent hours trying to find more sports he can do during the day.

[JumpyTheFrog]

...I think I saw another thread about getting up to sneak access to a phone in the mornings. If that is you and the same child could his poor mood be related to missing sleep because of that phone? My poorly regulated child is much, much worse when tired (or hungry, but tired is the worst).

 

 

Yes, I do think the last few days have been worse from the missing sleep. However, that only explains a few days, not the last 3 1/2 years. :-) It's a constant battle to get him enough sleep, and keeping on top of it helps, but isn't enough. Either that, or missing an hour here or there affects him much more than most kids his age.

[swellmomma]

The not responding to someone, or the sitting to eat don't stand out as adhd things, more like a 6 year old needing to be taught those particular manners. (spoken as the mom fo 3 confirmed with adhd and 1 suspected)

[Arcadia]

As far as being bored, we work hard to keep him busy.

 

For boredom, I let my kids pick their own self interest "projects" to do. I would be tired out keeping them busy so I let them have ownership of their boredom.

 

I would also look at quality of sleep. My older is a much happier boy when he has a good night's sleep.

 

The pediatrician does not give a diagnosis. He/she will refer you to the relevant specialist who will observe your child and compare with the checklist filled in by the parent.

[PachiSusan]

I dunno, the not sitting while eating thing doesn't bother me. I guess I pick my battles.

 

LOL - so true. I hope we ALL pick our battles wisely and what works best for our family.

 

It IS a hill to die on for us. Truly. We cherish the dinner table time and continually getting up and down is annoying. We don't either. (Get up and down, that is)

[sbgrace]

Yes, I do think the last few days have been worse from the missing sleep. However, that only explains a few days, not the last 3 1/2 years. :-) It's a constant battle to get him enough sleep, and keeping on top of it helps, but isn't enough. Either that, or missing an hour here or there affects him much more than most kids his age.

I'll say that an hour here or there does affect mine. You might track things. My son is marginally better at managing with a bit of missed sleep now at 9. But only marginally. He's home tonight becuase two nights ago he woke with a cough and missed probably 1.5 hours of sleep and then got up early this morning. We've had a horrendous time. I coudn't have him late to bed another night. Like your son there is more to it. My son is generally not emotionally regulated. His emotions swing and he's always extreme whatever mood he is. But lack of sleep definitely makes that normal for him trait worse.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I think Arcadia is on to something. I asked Tigger tonight, "Are you bored a lot?" He said yes, but of course, that's a leading question, so who knows how valid the answer is. So then I asked, "When are you not bored?" He replied that he's not bored when I play games with him, when he's reading, or when I help him practice his gymnastics.

 

He went on to say that he wished Little Guy (age 3) was older so they could play board games together. I asked him why he doesn't play Legos or Playmobil as much and it sounded like he might be losing interest in them.

 

Tigger has been the poster boy of always wanting more, more, more. DH and I have occasionally discussed how he needs about 60 hours per day because he wants more gymnastics, more reading, more being read to, more time listening to audio books, more playing outside, more bike riding, more tennis, more basketball, more running, more soccer, etc. etc. If you've ever seen the movie "Short Circuit" and heard Johnny Number 5 talking about "need more input," then you have an idea of what Tigger is like.

 

Now that I think about it, I think Tigger has been trying to let us know he's bored, but I didn't recognize it, because he wasn't making his point very clearly. I already knew he is one of those kids that would absolutely wilt if he were in one of those homeschooling families where the parents limit the kid to one activity per week or aren't even willing to take their kids to activities.

 

Has anyone had a child's behavior greatly improve after they realize the child was bored? Especially, if you were already doing a lot to keep the child from being bored but didn't realize it wasn't enough?