ILiveInFlipFlops Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (Especially if you don't have much yourself!) My parents never had any expectations of me, and I was on my own a LOT as a child, so I have very little self-discipline to speak of. I have plenty of other nice qualities thanks to their benevolent neglect, LOL, but without self-discipline, I find myself floundering a lot in daily life. So how exactly do you help your kids develop self-discipline? Obviously, creating a house full of rules isn't going to do it, because then they're not relying on self-discipline, they're conforming to other people's mandates. I'd really like to start giving over some more autonomy to my kids, but so far, they haven't shown themselves to be very responsible with the autonomy I DO give them. And having never developed much self-discipline of my own, I'm at loose ends as to how to help them. If anyone has any thoughts on this or magic solutions, I'd love to hear them. These kids are growing up way quicker than I'm prepared for, and this is one of those things I'm feeling "behind" on. I feel like I'm paying way too much attention to every detail of their daily lives, and I don't know how to back away from that! Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Depends on the age of the kids. The best thing I've found for helping my kids develop self-discipline is TIME. Some kids are more autonomous than others just by their personalities. DD11 is quite independent - she can cook and bake and clean up after herself most of the time. By the time my olders got to be teenagers, they could feed themselves and do their laundry. My older two are quite impetuous and would often get themselves into trouble growing up because they jumped into things with both feet before looking. That has improved over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Depends on the age of the kids. The best thing I've found for helping my kids develop self-discipline is TIME. Some kids are more autonomous than others just by their personalities. DD11 is quite independent - she can cook and bake and clean up after herself most of the time. By the time my olders got to be teenagers, they could feed themselves and do their laundry. My older two are quite impetuous and would often get themselves into trouble growing up because they jumped into things with both feet before looking. That has improved over time. That info might help! They are 10 and 7. I guess I'm thinking more of smart decision-making, though (and more for my older DD). For example, I leave her to her own devices with regard to the independent portion of her schoolwork, and she doesn't make great choices around that. I keep trying to point out how she'd have time for Minecraft or Harry Potter or the movie night she asks for if she'd just get her work done more efficiently and earlier in the day rather, but she's not seeing the connection between frittering her time away earlier in the day and getting to do something bigger and more fun with her free time before bed. She's always feeling overwhelmed and behind with her schoolwork, but again, it's because she's frittering and not getting the work done, and then 11:00 at night arrives and I force her to go to bed and she wails, "But I'm not done! I'm so behind! This is too much work!" and so on. And I can make a rule independent work being done by a certain time or else all electronics are lost, etc., but again, that's not self-discipline, that's MY discipline. This all leads me to wonder if I'm doing something wrong, or if I should be handling it differently, or...something. I don't know, because I have no model to fall back on! My dad is one of the most self-disciplined people I know, and he and my mom made a (mostly) conscious choice to let me sink or swim as I was growing up, but that means no one ever taught me how to develop these sorts of abilities. Blah. I think my parents did lots of things right, but this is one area that really affects my whole life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 At 10, it's going to take some time and handholding. You may have to sit her down and go, School first..then play. Show her how to make a schedule. I would also be working on my OWN self-discipline. "Okay, guys...We have x,y, and z to do this morning. Let's knock out these chores so we can have the whole afternoon for fun!" Modeling will be huge! Some kids are just naturall gifted in this area. Others have to be taught. I know people with 12-13 yo's who still need mom sitting right there doing schoolwork. Also, just because they struggle with self-discipline in school does not mean that they won't have it in other areas. I think that perhaps time management might be a focus that you will want to model and intentionally work on with this dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I don't have any magic solutions, and we definitely aren't "there" yet. ;) But it is something we're working on. As you said, I think modeling self-discipline yourself is key. Aside from that, I really think the concept of "scaffolding" helps in this area. Basically, you provide just enough support (the "scaffold") for your child to complete an activity in an effective manner. Whether that activity is getting up in the morning, making breakfast, starting schoolwork, or making good use of their free time - it can be useful across the board. The idea is to meet your child at his/her level and provide just the right amount of support needed to help them, so that they have to rely on their skills, knowledge, and self-discipline to complete the task. This type of support can take many shapes: resources or tools, a compelling task or activity that piques their interest, modeling tasks for them (doing a little bit less each time until they can fully complete the task on their own), coaching, etc. Again, the idea is that the scaffold will be more encompassing initially, and as your child develops skills/knowledge/self-discipline, you provide less and less support until they're operating independently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 At 10, it's going to take some time and handholding. You may have to sit her down and go, School first..then play. Show her how to make a schedule. I would also be working on my OWN self-discipline. "Okay, guys...We have x,y, and z to do this morning. Let's knock out these chores so we can have the whole afternoon for fun!" Modeling will be huge! Some kids are just naturall gifted in this area. Others have to be taught. I know people with 12-13 yo's who still need mom sitting right there doing schoolwork. Also, just because they struggle with self-discipline in school does not mean that they won't have it in other areas. I think that perhaps time management might be a focus that you will want to model and intentionally work on with this dd. I agree with all of this. I also think you are probably giving her too much time. They have done studies on timed tests and found that students actually work MORE efficiently with a time limit than without. The perception that "I have all the time in the world" causes frittering. You might consider setting school hours during the day (maybe even subject hours), chore hours, dinner hour, free time hour, and other times for things that need to get done. Then if she isn't finished when school hours are done, too bad. We are moving on to whatever is next (I would strongly advise putting SOMETHING between the school hours and the free hours), be that dinner, chores, or whatever. If she is very bad dawdler, you might even have time limits for each subject. She can finish up during her free hours. During free hours, she is on her own. She should not expect help or for you to do anything school related for her. Moms need an end to their work day, too, and she should not expect that her dawdling and getting behind is going to be YOUR problem. Her dawdling has to become HER problem and not hold up the whole family. All of that said, it is predicated on the presumption that you are not giving her too much work and too little time. So do make sure to do a reality check there. I wouldn't worry over much about the concept of self-discipline at this age. It's a slippery concept to begin with and very, very difficult to pin down what is an age appropriate amount for any given child. Instead, think in terms of gradually handing over more and more freedom for how things get done, but GRADUALLY. Make sure that the child is handling the amount of freedom that they have before you give them more. And be prepared to back pedal occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily_Grace Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Listen to the flight attendant. You have to put your own oxygen mask on before you can attempt to help those around you. In other words, you can't expect your children to do what you cannot. In our house, self discipline is a flexible skill. Sometimes it's there, sometimes not. But I do find that over the years, my kid has developed self discipline to a point expected of a young teen. Meaning, he knows what to do, does it about 70% of the time, and tries to but gives up about 20%. The last 10% is where he just goes stupid. LOL We've always had a strong policy of making amends/fixing the situation instead of punishment when able. In the beginning, it was giving my child 2-3 choices of how to handle things and me making sure it got done. Gradually that became both of us bouncing ideas, until more recently it's him thinking over choices, asking my opinion, and then carrying out whatever solution he decided on. We've talked...and talked...and talked. It's hard to have self discipline unless you see it modeled. I could talk/shout/cry through my process and he got to see that no, adults aren't perfect, and we all go through the same emotions....but also learn how to handle them. We've put an emphasis on writing things down and breaking goals into manageable chunks/doable deadlines. I do it, dh does it, he does it. We've let him fall without saying a word. When I hand over a packing list, and the kid tries to leave out some items, he is going to be the one hurting. When he didn't finish his schoolwork and the sun is shining, we let him answer the door and give his regrets to friends. We've kept our lives loosely structured. We always get up by 7am during the week, nearly always eat dinner together, and so forth. We have expectations that will not change without good reason - and good reason must be argued and defended. One thing I did when the 13yo was small was to write down who I wanted him to be at 18. What kind of skills, what kind of a character. From there I worked backward - what I expected at 17, 16, and so forth until I got down to toddler hood. It kept things in perspective for me. I don't need to rush, there is plenty of time. I just needed an organized path to help me along each step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 If she is very bad dawdler, you might even have time limits for each subject. She can finish up during her free hours. During free hours, she is on her own. She should not expect help or for you to do anything school related for her. Moms need an end to their work day, too, and she should not expect that her dawdling and getting behind is going to be YOUR problem. Her dawdling has to become HER problem and not hold up the whole family. Would this go for a newly seven year old boy, too? Or is that too young? I'm so tired of Tigger's disobedience, arguing, bad attitude, distraction, and time wasting holding me up all day. Cumulatively, I wait hours per day for him to finish eating, calm down in his room, and stop arguing with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Would this go for a newly seven year old boy, too? Or is that too young? I'm so tired of Tigger's disobedience, arguing, bad attitude, distraction, and time wasting holding me up all day. Cumulatively, I wait hours per day for him to finish eating, calm down in his room, and stop arguing with me. No. It is too much to expect from a 7 year old boy. Instead, at that age (and particularly with boys), I would focus on developing concentration. Practically speaking, I would use a timer. I would give him the instructions for what I wanted him to do, then I would tell him that I wanted him to work steadily until the timer went off and that once it was off, he was done with that for today. I would start with 10 minutes. 10 minutes of concentrated effort on, say, a math page, is worth far more than an hour of resisistance and dawdling. Let him get used to the good feeling of having gotten something done and you being happy with him (make sure to give him a small reward every so often for steady work and concentration). I would also try to structure his school work so that he was doing 2 sessions of 10 min (different subjects or at least very different tasks) with a break for something physical in between (NOT PLAYTIME, because it's too hard for them to settle back down easily, only give playtime if you can give at least an hour, less will be frustrating for you both). A chore, a little mini phys-ed, whatever. Look out for frustration points for boys this age: pencil fatigue is going to be the biggest, try to space schoolwork with writing/no writing tasks, allow him to do a lot orally (it really is legitimate learning, and you may find you get a lot more cooperation than you ever believed when you remove the dreaded pencil - you don't have to produce paper to prove you are learning something), use of whiteboards helps some boys - I have no idea why, fidgeting - try not to be irritated by it - your irritation leads to his frustration leads to a downward spiral. If you have done what you can to develop concentration even for short periods of time and elminated some frustration points but you are still getting a lot of resistance, then you have to go back to obedience 101. At that point it's not a school problem, it's a discipline problem. My best advice for avoiding that to begin with is: boys and puppys, both are better when they are well exercised (tired). Lots of physical activity, and then some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Would this go for a newly seven year old boy, too? Or is that too young? I'm so tired of Tigger's disobedience, arguing, bad attitude, distraction, and time wasting holding me up all day. Cumulatively, I wait hours per day for him to finish eating, calm down in his room, and stop arguing with me. Oh, and with the eating, yes, I would put that on a timer, too. Make sure to give enough time, but once the bell dings, that's it, he's done, moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PachiSusan Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 subscribing. I don't have any advice because I have the same problem that is translating to my kid having that problem too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy g. Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 When I had just read your title, I was going to say, "model, model, model" Children will learn what they see. I really do not believe anything else will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Modeling is important, but you can model to your hearts content and still have kids who mismanage their time if they are not developmentally ready for that responsibility. I still have to help my 16 yo make the most of his time. I don't micro-manage each hour of the day, but we do talk about what he needs to get done that day and come up with a plan on how he is going to accomplish that. I check in periodically. Also, some people are just more naturally gifted in that regard. My parents were very disciplined people. Yet, I still struggle with this. You'd think that by the age of 49, that I would not procrastinate and find myself with more work than time. But, alas, I am still a "last minute Charlie." I do better when I have structure. I struggle with things where I have to be the "self-starter." Maybe this is why I can have compassion and understanding for the procrastinators of the world. I am one of them. This doesn't mean that I don't ever get mad or frustrated, however. :001_smile: I am human! BTW, it does get better, just maybe not as soon as you think. College boy (who lives on campus 3 hours away) is doing well in school despite him inheriting my procrastination tendencies. He made the Dean's list his first semester. He did get himself into a few jams, but has managed to survive and thrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 That info might help! They are 10 and 7. I guess I'm thinking more of smart decision-making, though (and more for my older DD). For example, I leave her to her own devices with regard to the independent portion of her schoolwork, and she doesn't make great choices around that. I keep trying to point out how she'd have time for Minecraft or Harry Potter or the movie night she asks for if she'd just get her work done more efficiently and earlier in the day rather, but she's not seeing the connection between frittering her time away earlier in the day and getting to do something bigger and more fun with her free time before bed. My 11yo is totally capable of doing all of her schoolwork, but if she is faced with a "big chunk" of independent work, she stares at it, daydreams, wanders around, plays with the dogs .... you get the idea. For the things she works on independently, it's critical that I help her break it down into bite-sized pieces - she doesn't really have that skill yet herself. DD11 does great with a planner and her tasks written out - a little more work for me, but it pays off. As she checks each thing off as done, she can see what she needs to do and see her progress. For DD, I try to be sure each task is about 15 minutes or less. Today's Example: Math - problems 1-10 Music - piano Math - problems 11-20 Science - read pg 289-290 Science - write vocab words from reading with definitions Science - read pg 291-295 Science - write remaining vocab words Math - problems 21-30 Lit - read 30 minutes (remember to set timer!) Lit - write 1 paragraph summary of reading. What happened today? History - color map #19 History - mark timeline with events lesson #70 Everything is broken down for her. That's about 3 hours she was working fairly independently today. I was there at my desk, but other than some math questions, she mostly did this herself. When she was done, we went over the science study guide together and talked about her history reading. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 It sounds like you are talking about executive functioning. You might want to do some reading on that subject. It often seems to me that some of us have lots of it and some of us don't. I do know that we tend to have a finite amount of self control and the more we have to use in one area, the less we have in others. And yes, it is difficult to learn what you don't see or talk about. I frequently talk to my boys about how I make the choices I make, why I am doing something instead of something else etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Modeling is important, but you can model to your hearts content and still have kids who mismanage their time if they are not developmentally ready for that responsibility. <snip> Also, some people are just more naturally gifted in that regard. My parents were very disciplined people. Yet, I still struggle with this. Yes! Human beings are complex and there are a number things that go into how we are. Some is modeling, some is inborn temperment, some is psychology, some is the drive to change for goals....probably other things that I'm not even thinking of. When I was growing up, my mother "modeled" 1001 ways to be late for everything. Used to drive me nuts and I was perpetually embarrassed because we were always late and usually unprepared. As an adult, I am the opposite. I am always on time or early. I set myself up the night before - clothes, food, bags, whatever. I double check everything. I "make sure" - if I am planning to use a spice that I think we have, but maybe haven't used recently, I check the cabinet before I go shopping. I make sure. And I always leave a buffer of time in case things go wrong. My son, 14, isn't perpetually late or anything so extreme. But, he is still learning how to figure out how long things take, and still needs to be prompted to make sure he's got his stuff together and is ready to go. If he's taking an outside class that doesn't require him to bring materials, he still has to be prompted to take a pen and notebook (IMO, anything that you go to you should take a pen and notebook, you have no idea whether or not you will want to make notes). Nobody taught me those things, but he still has to be taught even though he's had it modeled for him his whole life. We are complex beings. We have to attack these things from all sides and not be tempted into oversimplifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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