What secular Science curriculum do you use?

[Rebecca71]

In the fall I will have a 1st grader and a 4th grader. I am looking to implement a secular science curriculum that spans both ages so I am not pulling double duty. Any recommendations will be helpful! TIA

[AimeeM]

You could probably use Mr. Q's (free) life science for that grade range. It's secular.

The year after you may be able to do Ellen McHenry (some things may be over your youngest's head, but there would be exposure).

[Stef03]

We like Mr Q http://www.eequalsmcq.com/classicsciinfo.htm (Life Science is free so you can see for yourself if it could work for both kids)

[SarahW]

Isn't BFSU secular? It is meant to span ages, so maybe look into that?

[Maela]

We like Mr. Q too!

[Ellesmere]

Mr. Q or BFSU were my first thoughts, as well. You can easily modify Mr. Q for the younger one.

[jillian]

Mr. Q, we love it

[elizabeth rose]

elemental Science , doing earth and space this year with a 2nd and 4th grader

[Walking-Iris]

I've decided to go with REAL Science Odyssey with my 1st grader next year. I've also used Real Science 4 Kids in the past and will use the Biology unit with my 5th grader. I've heard and seen good things about Singapore's My Pals Are Here science as well. I also really liked the look of BFSU even though I chose something else. I've used Evan Moors ScienceWorks with my Kinder. They have units at higher grade levels.

 

As far as curricula go---those 5 are the ones I like the best for secular science.

[brookspr]

We will be using BFSU next year, I also have Joy Hakim's Story of Science books and I am still trying to figure out what to do for lab work. DH and I both have chemistry degrees, so we like science :)

 

My kids are 10 and 12 and we will start homeschooling this summer/fall.

[pitterpatter]

Are you going with the four-year cycle? If so, I wonder whether you could combine the various levels of Evan-Moor ScienceWorks?

 

For example, use this one for your first grader.

 

http://www.evan-moor...Your-Body-Works

 

And, this one for your 4th grader.

 

http://www.evan-moor...-The-Human-Body

 

They could both listen in on the picture books and watch the same DVDs (i.e. Bill Nye), but maybe assign your older child additional independent readings?

[Χά�ων]

What is BFSU?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding

[paceofnature]

Another vote for REAL Science Odyssey and Elemental Science...

[dm379]

Either Elemental Science or NOEO. Both are great.

[amyrobynne]

I'm using BFSU with both my 3rd and 1st grader this year, at a somewhat accelerated pace. I do find that I need to look for associated library books that are more for his level because the ones in the k-2 book are too simple.

[Dana]

I've used MPH with Singapore. It's not open and go at all. They've just made some changes and have a new edition. I really like the Higher Order Thinking Skills books & their tests are really challenging.

 

BFSU has a yahoo group for each book. From the discussions there (often with Dr Nebel, text author), I think I would have really done well to use BFSU early on.

[serendipitous journey]

I happen to really really not like BFSU, though I've tried; I actually don't like the science part (as opposed to the implementation). REAL Science Odyssey works well here, and you could have it accomodate both boys. And documentaries. If you do RSO Earth & Space, skip the parts where you make an instrument to measure wind speed; and I'd suggest just buying a rain gauge for that project too. We finally skipped the rest of the weather lessons and are quite happy now, so don't fret if you don't like the beginning of that one.

 

-- if BFSU does work for you, that would be wonderful. Prob. worth a try.

 

We had luck with Apologia's "Exploring Creation through Astronomy", along with the kit sold at Rainbow Resources, when I literally rewrote the text as we went; I printed it out for Button and just referred to the textbook for pictures. Supplemented with "How the Universe Works" and some HA Rey books. I don't have the time to do it anymore, though.

[kfeusse]

we use and love Nancy Larson science in our home...we are on the 3rd year.

[NittanyJen]

Note that RS4K isn't actually secular; the author very subtly weaves intelligent design throughout the text.

 

 

[Walking-Iris]

Note that RS4K isn't actually secular; the author very subtly weaves intelligent design throughout the text.

 

 

This is actually in my experience not the case. I have never seen anything in her books at all that are concerning like that. The biology teacher guide has some very good points about evolution actually. You can go to the website and read entire texts online---the entire texts--to reassure yourself. You can even search throughout those texts. Nada. Nothing at all un-secular appears unless the word "designed" once or twice a book bothers people. But goodness even a BBC documentary about mammals can't get away from using that word because it fits grammatically in certain sentences. Cue David Attenborough's voice here.

 

Now Elemental Science I would say is not truly secular. The author has a disclaimer in the books that she is a YE Christian but tries to keep her materials unbiased. I don't see how the two can even coexist. YE? Unbiased?

 

The author of RS4K is a Christian but keeps that out of her material. Those two ideas can however coexist. One can be a Christian --a "theistic evolutionist" or whatever--and still agree and understand science.

 

RS4K is secular the same way History Odyssey is secular. HO Ancients says "if you wish you may want to teach something about creation or evolution etc before starting these lessons." Basically RS4K is the same in that it leaves that call up to whoever is using the materials.

 

Those kind of secular or neutral materials fill a void for homeschoolers of other religions or spiritual persuasions that are not comfortable with the heavy YE or Christian emphasis in other products. I reject the notion that secular must always mean no beliefs at all however.

 

But whatever. I've come to realize that science seems to be suspect if the author has any sort of spiritual leanings of any sort.

[Dana]

 

The author of RS4K is a Christian but keeps that out of her material. Those two ideas can however coexist. One can be a Christian --a "theistic evolutionist" or whatever--and still agree and understand science.

 

 

I believe there was some discussion a couple of years back where the author had a post on a discussion board that she later took down where she talked about trying to convert people to God and stated that she was young earth.

 

It's fuzzy to me now & I don't have time to look it up, but there was a lot of discussion here about it (I know Spy Car participated a lot in that thread), but that's where the RS4K not working secularly comes from.... the feeling of disengenuity with her other written comments.

[Walking-Iris]

Yep I read that thread when researching RS4K. So let's hold the author of Elemental Science up to the same scrutiny. Let's hold the author of The Well Trained Mind up to the same scrutiny. Let's hold Charlotte Mason or the creators of Ambleside Online or the authors of IEW up to the same scrutiny. Or the authors of Classical Writing....and so on....

 

Those authors being Christian in their private lives doesn't negate the usefulness of their curricula does it?

 

I am not a Christian. And the fact that I have seemed able to use RS4K secularly without having to rewrite a text or tweak a thing seems to me that it....works.

 

I honestly don't care what the author's private life and feelings are in regard to her religion, politics etc. At the end of the day when I was teaching my kid chemistry. It worked brilliantly, and I'll use the materials again.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I'll agree, as an atheist & scientist, that RS4K Level 1 Chemistry & Biology had nothing non-secular or troubling within the content of the texts. I really liked the Chemistry for my 3rd grader - but I think it is at a 3-4th grade level, it seems too light for middle school to me. I didn't like the Biology, it was just way too light. They may have changed this with their re-titling of the books, but when I bought them a couple of years ago, they were billed as full-year programs, but they aren't. Each book is 10 chapters, so you could easily go through 3 or more in a year - it's not a full year science program.

 

I think it's a really nice intro to science for a 3rd or 4th grader, doing several of the books in one year, but that you'd need something different for middle school. YMMV.

[NittanyJen]

I don't have *ANY* problem with *ANY* author's personal belief system, and my comments have nothing whatsoever to do with the author's personal beliefs, so we can derail that argument here and now as that is not the basis of my comments whatsoever. It's so nice to agree! As a Christian who schools from a primarily secular point of view, that would be a strange position for me to take, no?

In RWK's own words:

• 
  
  <Edited per SWB's request, but if RWK did not want things posted here, she should probably not have said them in the first place.  See link below>
   
• 
  
  http://1.gravatar.co...523536?s=32&r=Grwkeller says:
  January 18, 2012 at 10:58 pm
  <See the link if you want to see an example; we were asked by SWB to remove all quotes from other people but the fact that RWK did in fact sneak ID into her curriculum and do so in a way that it would go hopefully undetected by parents was confirmed by her in her own words that used to be quoted here>.
  
  ================
  
  So, right there in chemistry, she is defending her use of "designed" and putting down the use of "evolved" as a "philosophy."
  
  From her own FAQ page:
  
  
  <Another quote removed from RWK's FAQ page, documenting her duplicity.  I no longer have control over proving this content since we are not allowed to use primary source material on this forum any longer.  Let it be noted that an exact quote that proved my point used to reside here>.

 

• ================================
  
  RWK is very good at attempting to sound very open-minded and putting things in nice-sounding language, but her own writing betrays her. She has discussed at some past conferences, as has been noted in prior threads that her goal has been to make her ID wording throughout the texts subtle, but to ensure it is there to push that POV. Despite her language about it being simply a "lens through which to view science," ID is not something you can test in a laboratory, and is thus not science; it is a religious viewpoint, and is thus not secular.
  My original comment was not about her personal religion. I don't care if she is a Christian, Pagan, or worships the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
  
  Frankly, I'm not sure how SWB was dragged into this. I have no problem with her materials, and don't recall having brought her up-- since you did, in Ancients SOTW, there are religious references because religion was a big part of the developments of history at the time (in Medieval as well). If the books said, "Pilgrims came to the New World because God said it should be so," I'd have a huge problem with it. The books don't say that. Her works have nothing to do with the OP's question.
  
  I don't really care who does or doesn't like the program. It's a shame, in my book, that Dr. Keller had to insert her ID world view into what was otherwise a fairly nice set of books, because I found the texts some of the better ones written for easy reading with at least a little meat. I don't sell it or any competing program, nor do I intend to. My only goal is to put some factual information out there to assist the OP in making her choices. Hopefully by now she does not feel

[pitterpatter]

For what it's worth, I bought RSO for this year and have all but quit using it. We just do the few really good labs from it now. It doesn't have any meat to it. The little blurb before each chapter doesn't contain much info and the writing is not all that interesting or useful. The blurbs don't contain enough info to flow well from one topic to the next. For each topic, one small part is plucked out, so the child never learns all of the other parts. It is an expensive lab supplement at best. Most of the labs are more suitable for middle schoolers than elementary students too.

[Syllieann]

 

Those authors being Christian in their private lives doesn't negate the usefulness of their curricula does it?

 

I am not a Christian. And the fact that I have seemed able to use RS4K secularly without having to rewrite a text or tweak a thing seems to me that it....works.

 

I honestly don't care what the author's private life and feelings are in regard to her religion, politics etc. At the end of the day when I was teaching my kid chemistry. It worked brilliantly, and I'll use the materials again.

 

I personally don't care what the author's religious views are IF they don't directly conflict with the subject matter. There are many Christians and Jews that don't read Genesis literally and don't feel the need to mold science to fit it. I have serious misgivings about using a science curriculum written by someone that is hostile towards mainstream science. There is a whole lot of stuff that must be left out or overlooked and it spans across most fields...geology, astronomy, biology. It's not a simple blurb on evolution that is omitted. It colors every area.

[TarynB]

Now Elemental Science I would say is not truly secular. The author has a disclaimer in the books that she is a YE Christian but tries to keep her materials unbiased. I don't see how the two can even coexist. YE? Unbiased?

 

This is not true. Opinions based on incorrect assumptions help no one. Perhaps you have confused Elemental Science with a different curriculum.

 

 

As a user of Elemental Science, I feel like I have to speak up and provide the facts about that particular curriculum for others who may be reading this thread.

 

Elemental Science uses secular, evolution-teaching encyclopedias such as Usborne, Kingfisher, and DK as both the required and supplemental reading materials for the curriculum.

 

FWIW, Cathy Duffy, who makes her living reviewing homeschool curricula, classifies Elemental Science as secular. I noted that she classified NOEO as having an "underlying Christian view, but most resources are secular" and RS4K as "neutral", which I personally think isn't possible in science.

 

Our family does science secularly only. I have only used the ES logic stage levels, not the elementary levels, but I have seen absolutely nothing YE-biased or even Christian-biased. The author clearly states that she is Christian in the teacher guides. However, I've checked and I can't find her saying anything explicitly about YE, but I could be wrong about that. At any rate, the only thing the author has actually written in this curriculum are the teacher guides and student pages, which contain the worksheets and a few discussion Q&A for each lesson. I'm sensitive to religious content in science, and I don't recall seeing ANYTHING that gave me pause. One of the strengths that drew me to this curriculum is that it is based on well-known, widely-published, secular, evolution-teaching encyclopedias like Usborne, Kingfisher, and DK.

 

Walking-Iris, if you could quote or link to documentation that proves your assertion that Elemental Science is YE Christian or even non-secular, I would really like to see it.

 

Elemental Science may not be a good fit for everyone, but I'd hate for anyone to dismiss ES as a possibility because they are mistakenly assuming that it is YE Christian or non-secular.

 

ETA: From the ES website's FAQs (underlining mine for emphasis):

 

"Is Elemental Science secular or Christian?

 

Although I am a Christian, I have tried to write Elemental Science as non-sectarian. I have done my best to write each program in a manner that focuses on the science being studied instead of a person’s religious viewpoint. This was an easy task for Biology, Chemistry and Physics. However, in the interest of full disclosure, we do require that you use books that come from an evolutionary standpoint. In the elementary years, we do not schedule pages that deal directly with evolution or Big Bang. In the intermediate years, pages that deal with the Big Bang are included as an optional study (Please view the Earth Science & Astronomy for the Logic Stage sample to get a better idea of how this is handled.) If you have any further questions on this topic, please contact us."

 

FWIW, the author, who homeschools, and her husband, who assists in the ES business, both have degrees in science. Hers is BS in biochemistry and his is Master's in biology, and he worked as an ecology research scientist. (From ES website About Us.) For me, this speaks to their qualifications to write homeschool science curriculum, perhaps moreso than many other science curriculum writers. YMMV.

[TarynB]

elemental Science , doing earth and space this year with a 2nd and 4th grader

 

I second this one. I've used Elemental Science at logic level (not elementary level), but the author includes in the teacher guide how to adjust the curriculum to include younger siblings.

 

Another one that I didn't see mentioned already is ScienceSaurus.

[Rebecca71]

Thank you all for your input! I have tried BFSU and I loved the idea, the Yahoo group was very supportive and I really, really tried for almost a year, alas, I threw in the towel. It just wasn't a great fit for my style of teaching. I always felt like I was missing something, not doing enough research, having to work extra long to make sure each lesson was accurate and that I was comfortable teaching it. I am a former 1st grade teacher, so teaching is natural for me but, somehow I was not comfortable teaching with BFSU. I felt like I needed a bit more prepared for me. It may also have something to do with the fact that I am teacher, mom, wife, veterinarian, housekeeper, chef, Lego finder, support group of all sibling drama etc...all in one day. The reality is that I really need some assistance in my curriculum!

 

So, I think ES, RSO, or Mr. Q are my front runners from what I have seen and your great suggestions.

 

Thank you!

[Chrysalis Academy]

I completely hear you about BFSU. I loved the idea, and used it for awhile, but found I would spend an hour reading the lesson, highlighting things, prepping, etc. and then all it took was a 10 minute discussion/demo/library book, and she got it. We were done. After all that prep????? It was the wrong ratio of prep time to actual teaching time for us. So don't feel bad, you aren't alone! Lots of people here have tried and dropped BFSU!

[s.z.ichigo]

Tossing NOEO into the ring. I believe the pubisher is technically Chrstian, but it's only mentioned in the introduction to parents as an explanation of where the name NOEO comes from. The program is essentially a reading/assignment list that accompanies a collection of completely secular books, so there is no religious content. Not sure how it would work with multiple age groups, so this suggestion is more for anyone else reading who might be looking for good secular science programs.

[unity]

Another one you might consider is the free one at www.msnucleus.org. It's not perfect--sometimes there are typos and poor grammar, but I still actually kind of like the program. It provides 3 lessons per week for a full year of school (K-6). There are online storybooks, songs, lots of handouts, experiments, etc. I, too, am comfortable teaching, so I feel like this is a jumping-off point. I read what topic I'm supposed to teach and then we talk about it, look at books or online resources, do the experiments and/or worksheets, etc. I use this program even though I could afford something that costs money. It's just so straightforward and easy to use. It's fully secular, and in fact would be pretty unusable by ID/YE folks. I prefer to teach a variety of science subjects each year and not use the "classical" method for that one subject until the kids are much older. For younger elementary, this is the one program I've been able to use for more than a year. For older elementary, I've really enjoyed Singapore My Pals are Here, but from the looks of their new revised program, I sadly won't be continuing with it.

[FLDebbie]

Another one you might consider is the free one at www.msnucleus.org.

 

Thanks for posting this. It looks good and I can put up with a few typos for FREE!

[Mandy in TN]

I have a 4th grader who is using Science Daybook 5 with the coordinating level Sciencesaurus, science encyclopedia, from Great Source. It does have some little labs that we have done, but nothing major. They could be skipped. A 4th grader could tag along with his first grade sibling for whatever he is doing and then read and complete Science Daybook independently. It contains articles and little two page spread on science topics. The page before the reading shares a situation, gives a question to think about, and pages to read in Sciencesaurus. The article has room around it for note taking and little tips on things to underline or take notes on. The pages after the article ask thinking questions and sometimes suggest an experiment. The books are colorful and have an attractive, professional layout. They are well edited. The articles are engaging and provide an anchor for remembering the information from the science encyclopedia. My son had never brought up his science outside of school work until this year. So, this isn't some super rigorous, advanced science text or an uber hands-on science course, but it is open and go, it gets done, and it holds my child's interest.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Dolphin]

We really like Galore Park Science here. I would do Year one of Junior Science with your 4th grader. Instead of mixing I would just go really light with your first grader and do Magic school bus, Bill Nye, and popular mechanics DVD's, trips to the zoo, park etc.... Then, with both, fun science experiments, like the big bag of science at Timberdoodle.

 

My husband is a scientist, and he says the main thing with the early years is to get them thinking science is fun and accessible.

[fourisenough]

Another vote for Galore Park Junior Science. We own Books 1, 2, & 3 and think them a wonderful, do-able way to accomplish science in 2nd-4th grade. As a previous poster mentioned, we add BrainPop and Magic School Bus videos when appropriate and try to read extra books on topics of interest and that's it. Works well for us. She reads a section of the text, answers the questions in her science notebook, writes a 3-4 sentence written narration and draws an illustration. We usually discuss the extension questions orally and have never actually done any of the "To Do" sections. We just never seem to get around to doing any hands-on science at home. I've resigned myself to being okay with this. We do enough.

 

Another option would be Evan Moor Daily Science. Good, solid, and easy to get done.

[Shmead]

 

"Is Elemental Science secular or Christian?

 

Although I am a Christian, I have tried to write Elemental Science as non-sectarian. I have done my best to write each program in a manner that focuses on the science being studied instead of a person’s religious viewpoint. This was an easy task for Biology, Chemistry and Physics. However, in the interest of full disclosure, we do require that you use books that come from an evolutionary standpoint. In the elementary years, we do not schedule pages that deal directly with evolution or Big Bang. In the intermediate years, pages that deal with the Big Bang are included as an optional study (Please view the Earth Science & Astronomy for the Logic Stage sample to get a better idea of how this is handled.) If you have any further questions on this topic, please contact us."

 

 

[emphasis mine] A curriculum that avoids religion but also avoids things because they contradict a particular set of religious beliefs are not what I would call "secular". I would call that "neutral". As a secular person, I don't just want a curriculum that avoids teaching ID/YE, I want one that actively teaches evolution/Big Bang, etc.

[LinaJ]

Anyone has an opinion on Real Science-4-Kids biology vs REAL Science Odyssey Biology 2/ Pandia ? Kids are 10 and 11, and we are starting middle school curriculum.

[hsmom2011]

Kolbe Academy

[lewelma]

Not a curriculum, but this is what we do:

I use the WTM rotation: biology, earth/space, chemistry, physics.

1) For 8 months we read some good library books, and watch good documentaries (3 times a week) on the subject.

2) We do an intensive 6-8 week science fair project once a year. The goal of this is to find a questions, a real question, one that neither you nor your kids know the answer to. Then, figure out how to answer it, and go do your experiments. Then write it up. Including methods, results (graphs), discussions (assumptions, what you learned etc). This takes 5-10 hours per week during the time period.

Pros to this method:
1. No running around organizing experiments every week which are actually just demonstrations, as we know what the answer will be. ( If the kids want to explore and be creative and have fun, they can go outside and build a fort)
2. Having a real science experience, with true frustrations (there will be many, like a home-made kite that would not fly for a month - that takes problem solving), and a decent length of time.
3. Being able to discuss real scientific method problems. Like replication (yes you need >1 plant for each experiment on which type of fertilizer work better; yes, you need to be objective and not drop the silly putty from a higher chair when you think it should bounce higher etc).
4. Doing science that they will remember over the years. (my children can remember 7 years back worth of projects).

I have found this method very effective, saves my sanity, and costs little while they are young.

Ruth in NZ

[Murrayshire]

Thank you TarynB!........another plug here for Elemental Science!

 

We also add in science museums, Bill Nye, Discovery Education ( they actually have a science one you should look into), magic School Bus, Popular Mechanic for Kids (we absolutely LOVE these videos), Nova, PBS, and lots of outdoor time!

 

This year I'm letting my kids choose their topics in ES...... So it will be mixed instead of devoting one year on Bio or Earth or Chem or Physics.

 

We have used Evan Moore, RS4K, & Apology chem & physics (like the poster above, I had to majorly tweak the reading portions.....we made our own notebooking pages.....I'll keep the text book b/c there are a TON of experiments in it, but if you want secular science......it's not worth the purchase!

[OneStepAtATime]

If you have no computer issues you might look at Science Fusion.  I like the textbook since it seems well laid out and the student also writes in it and uses it as their reference book (no extra workbook to have to keep up with).  The on-line material pairs nicely with it, too, at least so far.  

 

Also, you might look at this that maize linked the other day in another science thread (apologies if someone else already linked this and I missed it):

 

http://www.uen.org/core/science/sciber/sciber7/stand-1/index.shtml

[apmom]

Elemental Science is great, and the middle-grade books have a list of books in the back to use for younger students studying the same topics. I used it last year with a 6th and a 2nd grader.

 

[aprilleigh]

I really like BFSU, but I completely get why some people just can't make it work no matter how much they like it otherwise. It's definitely not open-and-go, but it's thorough, and has some of the best user support I've ever seen. I think maybe part of the reason it seems to work for me is I've taught science since 1997, and my child has a very pronounced science aptitude. It's by far his favorite subject (aside from his Legos, of course LOL).

 

We're Christian, but not YE. I found most homeschool science curricula was either unabashedly YE, or just ignored the topic entirely to appeal to a wider audience. As a scientist, I'm particularly sensitive to this, and wanted a secular program. I was just about to throw up my hands and write my own when I stumbled onto BFSU. If I wasn't science-oriented myself, I might not have recognized it for the gem it really is, because it does take some work on the part of the parent, but it's really solid.

[Aurelia]

We use Galore Park. Solid information in the textbook, only 1 experiment per chapter and most of the materials are household things (like a wool sweater and balloon, etc).