Interesting article in the news today - essentially state of the school from perspective of teacher

[lilbean05]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/02/09/a-warning-to-college-profs-from-a-high-school-teacher/

 

Not that it is all new information to us, but it is really interesting to see the perspective of a long standing high school teacher. Thought it was worth sharing. :)

[MrsMe]

I think more and more are coming around. Unfortunately there's still a good chunk of those who agree with the agendas of those he's trying to out. Ap classes are a joke IMO. Most just further self esteem and those classes should be more of the type schools put out, the norm, but classes have been dumbed down for such a long time, and so early on that they really aren't much more than basic knowledge that should be taught.

[Bootsie]

I am one of the college professors who is seeing this in my college students. Many think that "studying" means reading a list of multiple choice questions to which they have been given the answer.

 

Ironically, I was looking at the AP government class at one of the local high schools and the teacher had posted the "end of semester review." This review consisted of 100 mutliple choice questions. Students were told that their final exam for the semester (which was 20% of their grade) would be comprised of 50 of these 100 multiple choice questions. Yes, this was the AP credit course. Students simply memorized the answers to 100 mutliple choice questions, knowing that 50 of those exact questions would be on the final.

[ForeverFamily]

I was actually talking to my mom about a similar topic just the other day. We were talking about how the 6th grade (I think 6th) exit exam that my grandma had to take most college students now a days couldn't pass. My mom said she had looked it over once and wasn't even able to answer all of the questions herself. I am sure I would probably fail miserably. It is sad what has happened to our countries educational system. I am sure the adoption of the new Core Curriculum Standards (I think that is what it is called) will only continue to make it worse. It seems we should maybe look back as a country and try to figure out what they were doing right back then instead of constantly trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

I was just curious about what I would find. I googled exit exams of the 1800's and found an 8th grade exit exam. I thought it was interesting. Here is the link if anyone else is interested in seeing it. Sadly, I would fail that test.

 

I also wanted to mention that unfortunately I think this dumbing down has already hit colleges. I had a college class years ago that did exactly what jdahlquist mentioned about the high school exam. The teacher gave us about 150-200 multiple choice questions and said that 80 of those would make up the final exam. As a result I think I got 100%, or at least very close to that, and I didn't learn much. I have also had several other classes in college that did not seem like they were college level.

Ironically, I was looking at the AP government class at one of the local high schools and the teacher had posted the "end of semester review." This review consisted of 100 mutliple choice questions. Students were told that their final exam for the semester (which was 20% of their grade) would be comprised of 50 of these 100 multiple choice questions. Yes, this was the AP credit course.

 

But the real AP exam is still pretty tough, right? So this must be one of those "AP" classes where the students bomb the AP exam, or worse, don't even bother to take it.

[Nscribe]

TY for posting the link to the article. The comments which follow it are ... at a loss for words.

[Shmead]

But the real AP exam is still pretty tough, right? So this must be one of those "AP" classes where the students bomb the AP exam, or worse, don't even bother to take it.

 

 

Here are the free-response questions for the last decade or so, along with scoring guidelines. I think the test is still reasonably rigorous.

[G5052]

Yes, I've been a professor for 14+ years now, and indeed the quality of students has been declining. This semester I have three students in their 50's who are in a degree program for the first time, and the difference between their level of critical thinking and the recent graduates is like night and day even though they've just taken classes here and there since high school.

 

In most cases, what they do in honors and AP classes at the local high school is what I did in middle school "back in the day." Even the foreign language exams are mostly multiple choice.

 

It definitely has kept me homeschooling. Sending them to the classroom has never been a consideration.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I read articles like this often and no matter what those in the trenches say the decline of the education for American students continues to happen. Unless those in charge (And I mean truly in charge of the educational system)are complete idiots and I do not believe they are,,,,then there is an agenda for this, my question is where are they going with this?

[Heidi]

Since the 1830s, “…state systems of common or public schooling have primarily attempted to achieve cultural uniformity, not diversity, and to educate dutiful, not critical citizens†(“A Brief Overview of Progressive Educationâ€, 2002).

 

John Dewey, father of the progressive movement, stated plainly, “Children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society, which is coming, where everyone is interdependent†(cited from “Humanist Manifesto,†2013).

 

“You can’t make socialists out of individualists.†John Dewey

[Serenade]

 

John Dewey, father of the progressive movement, stated plainly, “Children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society, which is coming, where everyone is interdependent†(cited from “Humanist Manifesto,†2013).

 

“You can’t make socialists out of individualists.†John Dewey

 

 

Bleh.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Since the 1830s, “…state systems of common or public schooling have primarily attempted to achieve cultural uniformity, not diversity, and to educate dutiful, not critical citizens†(“A Brief Overview of Progressive Educationâ€, 2002).

 

John Dewey, father of the progressive movement, stated plainly, “Children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society, which is coming, where everyone is interdependent†(cited from “Humanist Manifesto,†2013).

 

“You can’t make socialists out of individualists.†John Dewey

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner.

[regentrude]

Since the 1830s, “…state systems of common or public schooling have primarily attempted to achieve cultural uniformity, not diversity, and to educate dutiful, not critical citizens†(“A Brief Overview of Progressive Educationâ€, 2002).

 

John Dewey, father of the progressive movement, stated plainly, “Children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society, which is coming, where everyone is interdependent†(cited from “Humanist Manifesto,†2013).

 

“You can’t make socialists out of individualists.†John Dewey

 

which, of course, begs the question how countries with much more standardized, collective school systems (Finland, anybody?) manage to create better educated students than the US

 

This can certainly not be an explanation.

[Heidi]

Finland has no standardized tests: http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/january/finnish-schools-reform-012012.html

 

Who requires that we have standardized tests?

[Happy2BaMom]

I agree schools have been dumbed down, but the supposed quote by John Dewey is a complete hoax. The quote has been widely attributed to Dewey in the conservative blogosphere, but you will never find it specifically sourced to a book/letter/etc. of Dewey's, let alone with a page number (of course). This "quote" is reportedly from Rosalie Gordon, who wrote it in "What's Happened To Our Schools",1956, John Birch Society) where she wrote "You can't make socialists out of individualists". She claimed that this was what Dewey thought.

 

I tried a word search and a quotation search through a number of Dewey's books and materials a while back and was never able to find anything similar. I don't agree with him - I find his works to be rather obscure, but I find the things to be attributed to him mostly coming from people who have never read him.

 

 

The reason we have standardized tests is due to the No Child Left Behind Law, proposed by George W Bush and pass through Congress with strong bipartisan support.

[Heidi]

NCLB is not when standardized tests were required first and this isn't about left and right. How is John Dewey's other quote any different than the one that supposedly isn't his? He was co-signer of the Humanist Manifesto. I'm well aware of what he stands for.

[regentrude]

Finland has no standardized tests: http://news.stanford...orm-012012.html

 

Who requires that we have standardized tests?

 

 

But Finland has no school choice and no tracking, is culturally uniform, and the school system is rather socialist. The quote said nothing about standardized tests.

[SarahW]

 

But Finland has no school choice and no tracking, is culturally uniform, and the school system is rather socialist. The quote said nothing about standardized tests.

 

Here's an article about Finland that I think looks good: http://edudemic.com/2012/08/why-do-we-focus-on-finland-a-must-have-guidebook/

 

My husband is native N-European, so when I say it looks good I mean that it matches what my husband occasionally talks about.

 

But on the matter of school choice: I don't know how it works exactly in Finland, but where we lived in Europe we had "school choice" even though all of our choices could be labelled "public schools." We could choose the Christian school, the general secular school or the various "philosophy" schools (like Jena plan), and all would count as a "public school" because they were, well, public. There were only a few truly private schools in the country, and those catered to the kids of diplomats and the like.

[Heidi]

 

which, of course, begs the question how countries with much more standardized, collective school systems (Finland, anybody?) manage to create better educated students than the US

 

This can certainly not be an explanation.

 

 

I think that the socialist qualities are not what make Finland ahead in their education. It is their freedom qualities that have excelled their students. School doesn't begin until they are seven, no standardized tests so the teachers can actually teach and real learning takes place, little homework, long recess.... Their state gives their people more freedom in education than our state gives our public schools.

 

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that because we have the Constitution that we have, that Progressives on both sides, for a hundred years now, have it in their agenda to bring us down.... to level us, to control us, to dumb us down and socialize us, and to destroy our freedoms. They sabatoge things like free education and say "see, it doesn't work."

 

I know what my principles are. I'm always on the side freedom. You cannot tell me that government controlled education, no choice in schools, and core standards are responsible for excelling anything. Finland's leaders have their people in chains already. Our country is working on getting us in chains.

[LucyStoner]

Political much?

 

(Not directed at the OP or link, but rather the trail this thread has taken.)

[MrsMe]

Maybe so, but when you're talking about ps and testing, where else can it go, but political. It's a government entity that has control over your child and unfortunately there are political reasons for it, among others.

[Mrs Twain]

The 8th grade exit exam is interesting.

Much of it is just memory work. Though I don't emphasize exactly the same content as that exam, the themes covered in that exam are similar to the body of knowledge I am attempting to cover with my children.

 

Who cares if the public schools are no longer requiring their students to learn actual facts and content. We can cover those areas with our children. One reason I value Hirsch's The Knowledge Deficit and the Core Knowledge K-8 Sequence is precisely for this reason. He is encouraging us to go back to the methods which were formerly used in the schools (learning content as well as skills) before the Progressives usurped the school system.

[LucyStoner]

Maybe so, but when you're talking about ps and testing, where else can it go, but political. It's a government entity that has control over your child and unfortunately there are political reasons for it, among others.

 

 

FWIW, I hear the same education is brainwashing for political ends from pretty much all sides of the political spectrum. My dad's rants usually start with the dumbing down of kids and end with it all being a conservative plot to create complaint soldiers, consumers and low wage non-union labor to live and die for corporate interests. As is often the case, no one political ideology holds an exclusive lock on conspiracy theories. Is education failing in this country? I think so. Will that be solved by conspiracy oriented thinking? I don't think so.

 

Fwiw, people have always complained about education declining. Even in the 1850s.

 

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp

[LucyStoner]

The author of the OP link makes a very true point- kids are not being taught in high school to write in part because the process of learning to write is labor intensive for the teachers- grading

100s of 20 page reports is nearly impossible while also teaching to a test. And then I see parents who rip teachers up for demanding their students write at all. And in elementary school, when basic writing is taught, all that matters is the tests and even the writing test doesn't seem to require decent writing! These tests predate NCLB but have certainly increased in importance since then. I went to a small fairly unique high school and I learned to write. I never struggled with it in college. There were just under 200 kids in that school and about 12 teachers. When I turned in a paper in any subject- science, history, politics, literature, French etc I knew my teachers read every word and gave me written and verbal feedback and criticism on every element. Then, rather than grading it, they made me do it over again if it was not what they thought I was capable of, even if it was A quality. There were no grades but there was also no credit towards graduation granted at all for anything less than an 85%. Had those same 12 teachers had 800 students, I would not have benefited from that level of teaching. I had classes with 5-20 students, published authors as teachers, and if a student was motivated they could easily receive extensive 1 on 1 time with a teacher to discuss their work.

 

Not that it matters put at least 3 of my teachers were actually socialists. I was not being conditioned to be stupid, nor did my time there prevent me from excelling in Chicago school themed economics classes in college or cause me to accept any political beliefs as fact. I also learned from some extraordinary conservative thinkers in college who taught me a lot, even in the topics where I had vastly different thinking. There are phenomenal educators of all political stripes.

[fraidycat]

Admittedly, I'm not a huge visitor of the snopes website. I have used it in the past, when email forwards were much more prevalent (to link back to the forwarder), but I digress. WHEN did snopes become the "expert" on OPINIONS, rather than facts?

 

:confused: :confused1:

 

They do not discount that the test actually existed (testable fact), but they've got a big ol' red FALSE posted on their page that, after reading the article, seems to be aimed at the "dumbing down" (opinion). :glare: Weird.

[momto2Cs]

The author of the OP link makes a very true point- kids are not being taught in high school to write in part because the process of learning to write is labor intensive for the teachers- grading

100s of 20 page reports is nearly impossible while also teaching to a test. And then I see parents who rip teachers up for demanding their students write at all. And in elementary school, when basic writing is taught, all that matters is the tests and even the writing test doesn't seem to require decent writing! These tests predate NCLB but have certainly increased in importance since then. I went to a small fairly unique high school and I learned to write. I never struggled with it in college. There were just under 200 kids in that school and about 12 teachers. When I turned in a paper in any subject- science, history, politics, literature, French etc I knew my teachers read every word and gave me written and verbal feedback and criticism on every element. Then, rather than grading it, they made me do it over again if it was not what they thought I was capable of, even if it was A quality. There were no grades but there was also no credit towards graduation granted at all for anything less than an 85%. Had those same 12 teachers had 800 students, I would not have benefited from that level of teaching. I had classes with 5-20 students, published authors as teachers, and if a student was motivated they could easily receive extensive 1 on 1 time with a teacher to discuss their work.

 

Not that it matters put at least 3 of my teachers were actually socialists. I was not being conditioned to be stupid, nor did my time there prevent me from excelling in Chicago school themed economics classes in college or cause me to accept any political beliefs as fact. I also learned from some extraordinary conservative thinkers in college who taught me a lot, even in the topics where I had vastly different thinking. There are phenomenal educators of all political stripes.

 

I absolutely agree. I work with a couple of English professors at the local junior/community college--I grade papers for them, so you can see even at that level, it is hard to have time for it all!--and the ability of high school graduates to write clearly has declined drastically. Many don't even know the basics of grammar, formatting a paper, and so on. The college I work for now offers several "remedial" English classes for high school graduates.

 

To the OP: I found the article very interesting, and I am glad the author took the time to write it. I think society as a whole has a tendency to place blame for failure in the school system on the teachers, which I believe to be unfair. Yes, there are some very poor teachers out there, but there are also a number of excellent ones, who have their hands tied by the whole testing gambit.

 

It is unfortunate that we have come to view test results as more important than the ability to communicate properly. I also think that texting/facebooking/etc., all have their role in the downward spiral of teens' general inability to write cohesively.