Transcript Assistance for a STEM kid...

[justkeepswimming]

I keep second-guessing our choices... arggggh! :001_unsure:

 

DD (9th gr) has realized that she truly loves science and math - & music and art. These have always been her best subjects, but she really liked everything "about the same" until now. So, at the end of Semester 1, we made some changes. She dropped Latin and we made some changes regarding History and heavy-reading courses.

 

She will likely choose a major in some type of science (she is very interested in environmental science right now) - hoping for a scholarship, but likely she will go to a state school because I can't imagine affording a school out of state...

 

None of our state schools are particularly difficult to get in to - so I'm not sure just how much I am over-thinking this, but I am so afraid of screwing this up for her & I'm stressing out.

 

I am worried about claiming "band" as a class for a STEM student. But she spends 7 hours per week IN class for band - not including practice time at home (1-1.5 hours a day on top of class time) or performances. Our original plan was to not count band, except as an extracurricular... but it is a *major* time-suck to not count it.

 

But - if we count it this year, can we count it all 4 years without looking "weak?" She will spend 7-8 hours per week next year in classes...

 

We are choosing to keep most of her classes at what we consider "honors" level - rigorous, but not AP. She will complete gobs of volunteer hours, environmental projects, outreach projects, and teaching projects - as well as creative projects over the next 3 years. AP classes (except possibly Biology) do not appeal to her right now at all.

 

PrettyPlease look over this and tell me what I am overlooking, or if this looks solid enough - along with the extracurriculars (mostly music and science related) and awards she will have achieved...

 

I would like to stop thinking about this every single night & need some outside validation to put this to rest. :willy_nilly: We would like to add more art classes/time, but are afraid it will look like "easy" classes on the transcript - but for all I know she'll decide to go as a music or art major... so we need those interests covered too, yes? (which... they will be "easier" for her as far as reading goes. She is not a fast reader, and we piled up too many heavy-reading subjects at the beginning of this year and she bogged down even though she was working her hind end off...)

 

Ahhh! Thank you for reading this book! :biggrinjester:

 

9th grade:

 

English I - 1cr

Biology I with Lab - 1cr

Algebra II - 1cr

World History, Ancients through the Crusades - 1cr

French I - 1 cr

Band - 1 cr

Creative Writing and Introduction to Publishing - ½cr

Art History - ½cr

American Government - ½cr

Total: 7.5 credits

 

10th grade:

 

English II - 1cr

Chemistry with Lab - 1cr

Advanced Math I (Saxon, haven't figured out what we'll call it on the transcript yet) - 1cr

World Geography and Cultures - 1cr

French II - 1cr

Band - 1cr

elective - possibly Computer Programming Languages - 1cr OR

elective - possibly something artsy - drama or drawing - 1cr

 

(she will possibly take Driver's Ed over the summer before or during 10th grade. Do people still count that as a half credit course for high school?)

Total: 7 - 7.5 credits (7.5 if we count driver's ed)

 

11th grade:

 

English III - 1cr (possibly CC)

Physics - 1cr

Advanced Math II (Saxon again, haven't looked at course names) - 1cr

French III - 1cr

Band - 1 cr

US History (probably at CC) - 1cr

<Environmental Science - 1cr>

so - 6-7 credits already

 

12th grade:

 

English IV - 1cr (possibly at the CC)

<AP Biology, or Marine Biology, or Enviro. Sci. if she doesn't do that in 11th or some other type of science possibly CC - 1cr>

Calculus - 1cr

French IV (possibly 2 semesters at CC) - 1 cr

Band - 1cr

so 5 credits already - and she'd like to take this year "easy"

[Gwen in VA]

Your plan looks good!

 

Three comments --

 

1) If your daughter is interested in STEM, you might want to encourage her to take AP science classes. AP Environmental Science does not need a prior environmental science class; AP physics B can be taken as a first year physics class. Make sure you stay on track with math -- having a strong background is essential!

 

2) I am not quibbling that you CAN give lots of credits for band. Schools do, so you can. BUT --

 

Colleges want to see lots of extra-curricular activities. And listing lots of "softer" classes on the transcript muddies the waters and makes the overall transcript look less academically-focused. If she take music history or music theory, I would definitely list those on the transcript, but since you are already listing several art classes and you want the transcript to radiate "strong academics," I'd count band as an extra-curricular. JMHO!

 

3) You list US History as one credit at the CC. To cover all of US HIstory, you probably need to take US History both semesters, which would result in two credits. We have found CC classes to take significantly less time than classes done at home or online, so don't worry that your daughter will be overwhelmed. (Generally, colleges do want to see at least two years of history.)

[Luckymama]

1. Don't slack off with senior year! She should take as many credits as prior years.

 

2. I like to see 4 years of the main five subjects ( math, science, English, history/social science, foreign language) though 3 years of a foreign language is fine as long as a rigorous class is substituted. Ds took a second AP science his senior year (AP Physics C plus AP Environmental Science). Dd is taking two English classes this year, AP Lit and Creative and Critical Writing seminar.

 

3. If your daughter loves band, then keep it on the transcript! DS had four years of band as a class and dd has four years of chorus. Those classes did not prevent receiving very high scholarships! You can add half-credit art classes wherever you'd like :)

[Jen in NY]

I agree with Luckymama about senior year. Your student will be required to list the courses she is taking senior year on the Common App and possibly asked to report mid-year/end-of-year grades. Colleges are interested in seeing that your student is intellectually curious, so unless there is some outside research or project going on that will be impressive, have your student take the most challenging courses she is willing to take that year.

 

I would also recommend seeking out some AP Sciences with a lab component - or CC classes with lab.

 

We included piano on my dd's transcript all 4 years.

 

I would look now at the homeschool/stem admission requirements for a few different schools: a safety, a fit, and a reach. It was news to me early on that my daughter would be required to submit SAT II scores in particular subjects, and I am glad that we had that info in time to easily add SATIIs into her schedule.

 

Also, you can sign up for a website like college data locker and see what stats/classes/etc successful applicants had at a few schools you think she might like. Look at a variety of schools!

 

Enjoy the ride!

 

I am editing this to add: Sometimes schools want to recruit kids from Out of State, so if she and you are really interested in that scenario I wouldn't discount it completely. You never know! My dd will be attending a private school I never would have thought we could afford because they are a 100%EFC meeting school - the costs will be just about equal to our state school system. I am so glad I didn't have her write that school off right from the beginning!

 

Some books I read on our journey that helped me get my head around this crazy college application process:

 

http://www.amazon.co...rds=debt free u

 

http://www.amazon.co...lege admissions

 

Also, (i've posted this before, but I can't resist) this NPR story was interesting, and proved to me that you just never know how things will play out!

http://www.npr.org/2...issions-Process

[FaithManor]

My concern is the senior year. Colleges do not like to see STEM students having an "easy" senior year. Frankly, it's not good preparation for college either. She'll hit her freshman year of college with Calc II (a very stiff course) and all of her pre-reqs for her major. If she is in a higher ranked STEM school, she may have college writing for science majors and it's pretty technical...those that cannot manage it, get bumped down to a general writing class, but that puts them behind a semester in getting their English Gen-Ed reqs out of the way and they pay for a writing class that won't count towards graduation.

 

So, I'd be inclined to stick with at least six if not seven credits for the senior year. She needs to show due diligence. They don't want to see "coasting".

 

If possible, I would look at entering a decent science fair a couple of times. You want some outside documentation of achievement in this area if possible. She may not necessarily need it for admission, but it comes in handy for scholarship consideration.

 

Faith

[Muttichen]

I agree that she should take some AP classes -- colleges expect to see them and the kids she is competing against for scholarships will have take them.

 

Also, why do two years of advanced math? I'd suggest doing precalc in 10th, calc 1 in 11th, and AP calc BC in 12th. That is what most STEM kids will have.

 

About band, there is no problem with having it on the transcript as long as the rest of her courses are solid. Several of me kids are in STEM majors, and they always had music on their transcripts all four years.

 

For senior year, if she's done most of her requirements, you could look into an internship.

 

You also definitely want to do some science or math classes at the CC before 12th grade so she can have recommendations.

[Matryoshka]

Hm. It hadn't occurred to me that taking music would be considered "weak" - I was thinking it would show a more well-rounded interest. My dd is in high school this year (first time ever in school), and the ps doesn't offer orchestra as an extra-curricular, only as a credit class. I wonder if there are many other schools the same, and colleges might not look so askance at that. It does kind of annoy me, though, as there are only 7 credits possible, so any kid in band or orchestra can only take 5.5 academic credits/year (because of .5 credit PE as well).

 

My dd is similar to yours in that she's always been more music/art driven, but suddenly she's decided she wants to be a forensic pathologist (!) - don't know if that will end up happening, but I sure don't want to close that door, or a door to something similar. She's already saying she wants to drop most or all art classes, which really throws me for a loop. In her case she's a bit behind where she should be in math because of a rough year in 8th, so we're wondering if she should double up on AlgII/Geo her sophomore year, but that would mean dropping Orchestra. I'm holding out a slim hope that she could take it somewhere over the summer, but the school would have to approve (oh, that is hard to get used to after never dealing with a school before this!) and I'm not sure they like summer courses...

 

For science, the current plan is Honors Bio (9th), Honors Chem (10th), Honors Human Anatomy (1cr) and Forensic Science (1/2cr) (11th), Honors Physics and AP Bio (12th).

 

She may decide to take an outside AP Chem class senior year as well, which wouldn't be for credit, but would prep for the test. At her high school, they won't let you take AP Science without a year of Honors Science in the same discipline first. Our bigger bugaboo is the math. If she doesn't double up next year, we've thought of her taking a gap year and doing an outside AP Calc class and take the test, or perhaps even better, take a semester of Calc at Harvard Extension, then apply for the following year.

[swimmermom3]

It is really good to see the caution with regards to keeping the senior year a strong one.

 

I just attended a high school training session for mentors who are helping with forecasting-picking next year's classes. We were advised to make sure our students' senior year was a strong one with at least one or more classes that would be recognized as challenging. Last year the counselors saw four "uninvites" due to seniors taking it a little too easy. In one case, the financial loss was significant.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't see an issue with keeping music as one credit. There are a great many kids (even STEM oriented kids) who are taking a period of music as well as lots of after school practice time.

 

Actually, what struck me was the credit for English and the separate 1/2 credit for creative writing/publishing.

 

If there is an interest in majoring in art or music, will there be an expectation that she provide a portfolio or do auditions? Would the AP Art History exam be a good fit?

 

And I also agree with keeping senior year strong.

[FaithManor]

Hm. It hadn't occurred to me that taking music would be considered "weak" - I was thinking it would show a more well-rounded interest. My dd is in high school this year (first time ever in school), and the ps doesn't offer orchestra as an extra-curricular, only as a credit class. I wonder if there are many other schools the same, and colleges might not look so askance at that. It does kind of annoy me, though, as there are only 7 credits possible, so any kid in band or orchestra can only take 5.5 academic credits/year (because of .5 credit PE as well).

 

My dd is similar to yours in that she's always been more music/art driven, but suddenly she's decided she wants to be a forensic pathologist (!) - don't know if that will end up happening, but I sure don't want to close that door, or a door to something similar. She's already saying she wants to drop most or all art classes, which really throws me for a loop. In her case she's a bit behind where she should be in math because of a rough year in 8th, so we're wondering if she should double up on AlgII/Geo her sophomore year, but that would mean dropping Orchestra. I'm holding out a slim hope that she could take it somewhere over the summer, but the school would have to approve (oh, that is hard to get used to after never dealing with a school before this!) and I'm not sure they like summer courses...

 

For science, the current plan is Honors Bio (9th), Honors Chem (10th), Honors Human Anatomy (1cr) and Forensic Science (1/2cr) (11th), Honors Physics and AP Bio (12th).

 

She may decide to take an outside AP Chem class senior year as well, which wouldn't be for credit, but would prep for the test. At her high school, they won't let you take AP Science without a year of Honors Science in the same discipline first. Our bigger bugaboo is the math. If she doesn't double up next year, we've thought of her taking a gap year and doing an outside AP Calc class and take the test, or perhaps even better, take a semester of Calc at Harvard Extension, then apply for the following year.

 

 

It's not that Music is considered weak. Band or Choir for credit from a verifiable course of study is not weak. It's that Music Appreciation, as a course, can be rather undefined and therefore can look weak. For many local students who aren't participating in band or choir and the rigor those classes afford, they enroll in either a real art class and there are introductory options such as beginning drawing which covers all of the basic techniques and requires a lot of effort from the student in order to get a good grade - well, at good schools, not the travesty called a high school in my district! - or Introduction to Fine Arts which follows a semester of art history and then a semester of combined music theory and music history, the local text being the same one that a some what nearby regional university uses for its "Introduction to Fine Arts" course. These classes are supposed to have some weight to them and while they are Fine Arts Appreciation, they are known for studying the history and mechanics of "arts" with some rigor. Music Appreciation can appear very vague in comparison to Music Theory with AP exam or Music Theory and then a curriculum list that includes and AP music theory text in the reading or curriculum list or AP Art History, etc. As far as lessons on an individual instrument, those would be not be included in the transcript, but in the extra-curriculars portion of the application just as private painting lessons would be.

 

I've known homeschoolers that bought the first three levels of Alfred Company notespellers, had their kids do the work, and then awarded "Music Theory" credit and that's just intellectually dishonest and I don't recommend that.

 

So, a lot is going to depend on the course content. I generally prefer to recommend actual music theory or art history courses which are more easily quantifed.

 

Faith

[justkeepswimming]

Thanks so much! I feel a huge weight off my shoulders. We will look beef up the senior year, and will look at the AP classes more seriously... (ugggh, lol)

 

 

 

1) If your daughter is interested in STEM, you might want to encourage her to take AP science classes. AP Environmental Science does not need a prior environmental science class; AP physics B can be taken as a first year physics class. Make sure you stay on track with math -- having a strong background is essential!

 

We will look into the AP classes for 11th and 12th grade (or perhaps moving AP Enviro Science to this year alongside Chemistry... hmmmm...)

 

2) I am not quibbling that you CAN give lots of credits for band. Schools do, so you can. BUT --

 

Colleges want to see lots of extra-curricular activities. And listing lots of "softer" classes on the transcript muddies the waters and makes the overall transcript look less academically-focused. If she take music history or music theory, I would definitely list those on the transcript, but since you are already listing several art classes and you want the transcript to radiate "strong academics," I'd count band as an extra-curricular. JMHO!

 

Her extra-curricular list will be strong - Between Girl Scouts, volunteer activities and programs (she's planning to try to tailor her volunteer time toward science and/or arts-related activities), ensembles, and honor bands, science camps, etc... but she would like music history added in at some point.

 

3) You list US History as one credit at the CC. To cover all of US HIstory, you probably need to take US History both semesters, which would result in two credits. We have found CC classes to take significantly less time than classes done at home or online, so don't worry that your daughter will be overwhelmed. (Generally, colleges do want to see at least two years of history.)

 

Yes - we will do this so she has 2 semesters of US history.

If possible, I would look at entering a decent science fair a couple of times. You want some outside documentation of achievement in this area if possible. She may not necessarily need it for admission, but it comes in handy for scholarship consideration.

 

Yes - that is in the works right now!

 

Faith

I agree that she should take some AP classes -- colleges expect to see them and the kids she is competing against for scholarships will have take them.

 

Also, why do two years of advanced math? I'd suggest doing precalc in 10th, calc 1 in 11th, and AP calc BC in 12th. That is what most STEM kids will have.

 

The Saxon Advanced Math book, from what I have seen, is taken over 2 years. It covers trig and pre-calc. I will have to look into that some more, if she moves faster through math, we will have to outsource it, because I am not going to be helpful for her.

 

For senior year, if she's done most of her requirements, you could look into an internship.

 

Will look into this for sure!

 

You also definitely want to do some science or math classes at the CC before 12th grade so she can have recommendations.

 

This too!

Actually, what struck me was the credit for English and the separate 1/2 credit for creative writing/publishing.

 

She worked on a book with some friends and they had it published this year, plus worked diligently on other aspects of creative writing and learning about the publishing industry itself. No way is she not getting credit for that! :) It was definitely separate from English! :) The skills she's learned are something she will continue with throughout the next three+ years - she has other works in progress (but we'll only "count" it for the half-credit this year).

 

If there is an interest in majoring in art or music, will there be an expectation that she provide a portfolio or do auditions? Would the AP Art History exam be a good fit?

 

Good point - will factor that in.

 

And I also agree with keeping senior year strong.

[Tullia]

It's not that Music is considered weak. Band or Choir for credit from a verifiable course of study is not weak. It's that Music Appreciation, as a course, can be rather undefined and therefore can look weak....

 

I've known homeschoolers that bought the first three levels of Alfred Company notespellers, had their kids do the work, and then awarded "Music Theory" credit and that's just intellectually dishonest and I don't recommend that.

 

So, a lot is going to depend on the course content. I generally prefer to recommend actual music theory or art history courses which are more easily quantifed.

 

Faith

 

I agree with the entire post; especially the bolded portion above.

[Nan in Mass]

It is really good to see the caution with regards to keeping the senior year a strong one.

 

I just attended a high school training session for mentors who are helping with forecasting-picking next year's classes. We were advised to make sure our students' senior year was a strong one with at least one or more classes that would be recognized as challenging. Last year the counselors saw four "uninvites" due to seniors taking it a little too easy. In one case, the financial loss was significant.

 

Uninvited? Lisa, would you elaborate on this? It sounds very ominous...

 

Nan

[Luckymama]

I assume she means "uninvited" in that the colleges rescinded their offers of admission to the prospective students, based on the senior year grades. A boy DS knew from marching band was apparently ThisClose (according to his parents, who I talked with at the band banquet) to losing his place at his prospective college. He did pull up his grades, thankfully.

[kiana]

I notice she doesn't have a social science course listed as a senior. She might look into taking an interesting one-semester social studies course at the CC that will transfer to the university, lightening her gen ed courseload. Psych was a great, fun, and relatively "light" course for me, and the intro course is fairly standardized. American Government is another fairly standard one, or there are many other options.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I would have no hesitation about keeping band on the transcript. That is the sort of class that makes her a well rounded student. It also gives her the backup for any desire she may express on an application or in an interview about a music minor or participating in a music group at university.

 

I would also second (third or fourth) the recommendation to keep senior year strong. It is my understanding that university admissions and scholarship folks want to see an increasing level of challenge over the four years.