gifted readers/writers -- what does LA look like in your home?

[mamabmw]

For those of you who have young kids who are naturally gifted in reading, writing, spelling, and grammar, how much formal instruction do you do in these areas?

 

I am constantly questioning whether I need to be doing more or less in each of these areas with my 6 yo. She has been reading since she was in diapers and is now easily reading at a junior high (maybe high school?) level. She seems to naturally pick up spelling and grammar from all of the reading that she has done. She used to write pages and pages of stories every day, but recently has said that she isn't as interested in writing anymore (I think it's just a phase). Here's what we're currently doing:

 

- Read-alouds together plus several hours of independent reading

- Copywork most days

- Dictation from our read-alouds several times per week

 

We also have R&S 3, but only use it when it fits into our schedule. We used to use Spelling Power faithfully every day, but we abandoned it a few months ago for the sake of time :( These are really the subjects that I'm questioning.

 

How important is it at this age that we work on grammar and spelling? Also, should we be doing some additional writing activities, particularly if she stops doing so much creative writing in her free time?

 

Thank you for your help!

[2smartones]

We use R&S and Sequential Spelling.

 

I love R&S, but for a kid who's a natural, you might want to start over with 4th or 5th grade, skipping 2nd & 3rd entirely. They're just intro books, and there really isn't any meat in them at all. Everything is re-done in the next few books anyway. R&S takes quite a leap when you get to 5, so take a look at 4 if you want an intro for a grammer-fan. We do English 3-4x per week (whatever necessary to finish the book in a year). Also, we don't do all the writing from the book. We read the lesson, do the worksheet, and then go back to the exercises in the book only if necessary to reinforce a concept. Usually, the exercises in the book aren't necessary. We spend 5 to 15 minutes on English EXCEPT on "writing days". Sometimes there is no worksheet. Sometimes the lesson is all about writing, so we take extra time for those. My kids are behind in writing skill as it is, so we usually do the writing as typing or oral work.

 

I like Sequential Spelling, because we're able to focus on just the hard words. The curriculum wants you to go vertically through the spelling lists each day, but we sort of go horizontally or diagonally instead, skipping words I'm sure are too easy, and spending time on odd-ball or tricky words. Again, this works for us... my oldest, especially. He spells better than most adults do, actually. LOL!

 

To answer your question though........

 

We stopped doing read-alouds when the kids were around 3 or 4. For a while, we did the "you read a page and I'll read a page", but that didn't last long. They read aloud all the time for other assignments (like Bible), so it's just easier to let them take a book and run with it when they want to read something. They're both voracious readers, so I don't include that in our school work. I want them to read on their own terms so it's always fun and never becomes "work".

 

We do spelling daily, vocabulary (Worldly Wise) once a week (online), Latin daily, English about 3-4x/wk, and writing daily (our weakest area). We also do reading comprehension as a side note over the summer or during gaps where we've finished everything but don't want to start a new level so close to the end of the school year.

[Momof3littles]

We are not doing systematic spelling. DS1 just doesn't seem to need it.

 

We used FLL1 and 2 at that age, which was repetitious and perhaps not the best fit, but my 2nd child could participate with us (she was preK at that age but picking it up). I did not start with WWE until level 2, and we didn't start that until 2nd grade. He does some Daily Paragraph Editing too.

 

This year (3rd grade), we've also done MCT's Island level. We did the vocab and poetry as part of a co-op, and have worked on grammar on our own. We also do WWE3. MCT has been great for us.

 

We do read alouds almost daily. That is my favorite part of HSing :) My 6 yo DD joins us. She is reading independently but still working on her stamina for longer books. She can read about a page in a chapter book at a time before tiring. I think they both benefit from the read alouds, as it gives me a chance to point out some things like an author demonstrating "show don't tell," or similes/metaphors, or I ask them if they know what a certain word means.

 

My DS1 does not enjoy any sort of creative writing all that much, unfortunately. His grammar, spelling, and sentence construction are all pretty solid. We are doing a little work with proper paragraphs but that will be more of something we work on next year.

[Donna]

When dd was 6yo she did spelling with Spelling Power but she only did it from 5 to about 7yo. She had gone through all but the last couple levels and I didn't feel like she needed to do a formal program anymore. I took anything she misspelled in her writing and showed her how to spell it....it was rare for her to misspell anything.

 

We did a lot of reading together and discussed some of the books and enjoyed others. She did the MCT language arts beginning level at 6yo for grammar, poetry, and vocabulary.

 

We never did copy work but she did a lot of story writing on her own and came up with topics to write short reports on (her brothers would write reports and she wanted to do the same).

[Dmmetler]

We use MCT LA, because DD loves it, and DD is doing a Jr. Great Books literature class designed for GT kids online, which she's loving. The reading selections aren't at her level (she's doing a 5th grade course at age 8), but having other kids to discuss the books with is very different from just having mommy to do so, so I believe it's a good fit (they also offered a 6th grade one, but if the 5th grade one ended up being a good fit, I wanted something to do next year before I had to look at something else. DD is working on the Spell It! lists and studying words by word origins, because those are the words she struggles with-words that are from other languages and don't fit the patterns that she recognizes (words from French have been a sticking point for her). One of her goals is to eventually be in the National Spelling Bee (well, her goal is to WIN-which is one reason why I haven't looked for a preliminary that would let her enter and instead have left her in our local homeschool bee, which only sends the middle school kids on-if she wants to win, she needs as many years of practice and building skills as possible. I suspect she could win our regional preliminary now, because the words they quote the winners as having spelled correctly are within her skill set). She also does Spellodrome online (mostly because it was bundled cheaply with Mathletics after the World Ed games last year) "for fun". We started cursive in K (when she was still in PS and was in a pull-out reading group with 3rd graders, who were learning it, and wanted to learn it too), and added typing using Nessy Fingers last year. She creates visuals and does a weekly oral presentation for our co-op (she's one of two kids in her class who do this-at their grade level, it's optional, but DD enjoys it). I have a paragraph editing app on the iPad which she enjoys (she truly loves getting to mark someone else's work as incorrect)-I don't assign it, just open it occasionally and see what she's done.

 

For writing, along with MCT, we do Draw and Write through history, and she writes paragraph narrations on SOTW and illustrates them. On the computer, she did NaNoWriMo this year with a 10,000 word goal, and is still adding to her novel, which seems more like a collection of stories with the same characters. She enters writing contests when she can find them.

 

She gets a lot of grammar in Latin, too, which helps, too.

 

The funny thing is, I'd have said we don't do much for LA, until I wrote it all out.

[Crimson Wife]

At 6, I didn't do formal spelling with my oldest. She asked at the beginning of 3rd grade (7-turning-8 as she has an October birthday) to do a formal spelling program. She placed in Level G of Spelling Power, but I backed her up and did selected lists from E & F. She finished SP within a year, and then switched to Hexco spelling bee prep materials.

 

I wouldn't personally use R&S with a gifted kid even if I were okay with the religious aspect because it is SO dry-looking. We briefly tried the old Catholic edition of Voyages in English and neither I nor DD could tolerate it. After trying a bunch of things, I eventually hit upon the combo of Michael Clay Thompson (MCT) and Killgallon.

[beaners]

My 5 year old does a reading from McGuffey for me every day. We write down words that she has trouble saying or that we don't know the meaning for. There have been a few that I didn't know, and I had a perfect verbal SAT score, so that's been pretty humbling. :huh: My daughter's favorite part is asking if a word is new for me.

 

We do copywork. I let my daughter pick a sentence from a book she's reading. We go over it for any handwriting errors first. Then we talk about how we could rewrite the sentence using different words (similar to some of SWB's narration techniques), or how we could make it into a question or exclamation, and anything of note in grammar or punctuation. We cover a ton of different material doing this, but for next year I'll probably get a grammar book that I can glance through. If there are any topics that I've not mentioned, I'll incorporate those into this also.

 

She writes on her own, but that goes in spurts.

 

I do read out loud, but not specifically to her. I gave up the idea of reading things above her level to her. If I'm reading something, it might be because of the maturity of the content, or more likely I'm reading it to the 3 and 2 year old also. Even though her reading level is so high, she does still like to sit in my lap while I read out loud. :001_wub: I like the snuggliness, since I'm sure it won't last much longer.

 

We do group discussions of books. These are so much fun. We use some of the techniques from the Circe thread like asking how a story is the same as or different than another story, and if characters should have done what they did, and why. Everyone adds something to these. My husband loves to mention obscure stories or stories that we haven't done yet, which hooks my 5 year old into reading those on her own. I try to guide and mediate since I usually know where everyone's strengths lie, and I know if there's something I'd like to cover. The 5 year old obviously has read the most out of the children, and she comes up with some really great comparisons and connections. The 3 year old is at the beginning reader stage, and she is great at remembering very tiny details in stories. Her older sister remembers these too, but she's usually already thinking of the next story with an overarching theme. My 3 year old really delves deeply into the stories when we're talking, and we end up finding a lot more connections that way. Even the 2 year old, even though he's barely verbal, is clearly following the discussion and occasionally joining in. The toughest part there is figuring out what he's saying. Keeping him involved has gone a long way toward reminding me that he is able to understand at a MUCH higher level than he can express, and I'm hoping it makes up for some of the things that I've unintentionally delayed doing with him because his verbal delays make him seem so much younger. These discussions really are awesome.

[mamabmw]

Thank you to everyone for your input so far!

 

When dd was 6yo she did spelling with Spelling Power but she only did it from 5 to about 7yo. She had gone through all but the last couple levels and I didn't feel like she needed to do a formal program anymore. I took anything she misspelled in her writing and showed her how to spell it....it was rare for her to misspell anything.

 

This sounds just like our situation and now I'm thinking that we'll just drop formal spelling for now. There are obviously still many words in Spelling Power that she could learn, but I'm just not sure that it's a good use of our daily time right now, especially since it is frustrating to her to get even one word wrong. She's learning so much by reading on her own and I purposely choose dictation selections that will challenge her in this area (since I can't seem to stump her on grammar or punctuation!).

 

My only reservation about dropping a spelling program entirely is that my dd expresses an interest in participating in spelling bees in the future. She's not even eligible for our local bee for 2 more years, so we've got time, right? I'm torn :confused1:

 

 

I wouldn't personally use R&S with a gifted kid even if I were okay with the religious aspect because it is SO dry-looking.

 

Yes, R&S is a bit dry, but I like it for a couple of reasons: 1) the price is right, which is an important consideration for us! and 2) it seems to hit on the grammar topics that we need without too much extra fluff. Granted, I haven't looked at many other grammar programs so I don't have much to compare it to. We're using R&S orally so that she doesn't get bogged down with the writing and we're skipping many of the lessons that are too easy or repetitive (does this mean that we should skip to 4??). I did not have a solid education in English grammar, so honestly it is helping me to sit next to her and learn the parts of speech that I never learned!

 

I would love to hear more about Killgallon. I'm also intrigued by Writing Tales II. Is anyone using it?

 

We do read alouds almost daily. That is my favorite part of HSing :)

 

I absolutely agree! I have to remember that my dd is only 6 and I think it's SO important for us to be spending this time together. It gives us a chance to discuss the books and cuddle together while her younger siblings are sleeping. I intend to read aloud to my kids for years to come, no matter what their reading levels are :)

[Crimson Wife]

KISS grammar is available free and would be my choice if MCT weren't in the budget. What I like about KISS is that it pulls examples from literature like MCT and Killgallon do.

[Five More Minutes]

LA here is still a bit structured, because my LA-advanced 7yo dd does well with structure.

 

I've used AAS with her because she enjoys learning the rules. Right now I do about two steps a week with her in Level 4. (When she was 6, we blew through 2 & 3.)

 

WWE has been good for building her writing stamina and helping her sort out how sentences are put together.

 

MCT Island, which includes grammar and SO much more, has been a gift for this child. It seems to resonate with her soul. Words are important to her, and she loves thinking about how they fit together in different combinations. MCT challenges and delights her.

 

As for literature, we continue with read-alouds because we all enjoy them, and because they give us the chance to have conversations about story elements and literary devices without having to define the terms or hunt for them out of context. She reads an assigned book (at or even slightly beyond) her reading level daily for at least 20 minutes, often much longer. And my husband walks her and her sister through a couple of Shakespeare's plays each year, which is a highlight for her. (She likes the Bard's use of words ... :-) ).

[2smartones]

I wouldn't personally use R&S with a gifted kid even if I were okay with the religious aspect because it is SO dry-looking.

 

That's actually one of the pro's in my opinion. It's a very rigorous program without a lot of distraction on the pages (colors, pictures, graphs, etc.). The lessons are short and get the point across well. It's also easy to skip lessons you don't need since it isn't really all that spiral.

[3Blessings]

We do MCT and narration. We do FLL/WWE at higher levels. We read everything we can. We write letters a lot.

 

I was worried about spelling so we started with Spelling Workout at several levels higher, but we won't be doing that again. Others suggested the Spell it! list and I agree with that suggestion.

 

It is so nice to have fun with LA!

[aly9712]

We use MCT LA, because DD loves it, and DD is doing a Jr. Great Books literature class designed for GT kids online, which she's loving. The reading selections aren't at her level (she's doing a 5th grade course at age 8), but having other kids to discuss the books with is very different from just having mommy to do so, so I believe it's a good fit (they also offered a 6th grade one, but if the 5th grade one ended up being a good fit, I wanted something to do next year before I had to look at something else. DD is working on the Spell It! lists and studying words by word origins, because those are the words she struggles with-words that are from other languages and don't fit the patterns that she recognizes (words from French have been a sticking point for her). One of her goals is to eventually be in the National Spelling Bee (well, her goal is to WIN-which is one reason why I haven't looked for a preliminary that would let her enter and instead have left her in our local homeschool bee, which only sends the middle school kids on-if she wants to win, she needs as many years of practice and building skills as possible. I suspect she could win our regional preliminary now, because the words they quote the winners as having spelled correctly are within her skill set). She also does Spellodrome online (mostly because it was bundled cheaply with Mathletics after the World Ed games last year) "for fun". We started cursive in K (when she was still in PS and was in a pull-out reading group with 3rd graders, who were learning it, and wanted to learn it too), and added typing using Nessy Fingers last year. She creates visuals and does a weekly oral presentation for our co-op (she's one of two kids in her class who do this-at their grade level, it's optional, but DD enjoys it). I have a paragraph editing app on the iPad which she enjoys (she truly loves getting to mark someone else's work as incorrect)-I don't assign it, just open it occasionally and see what she's done.

 

For writing, along with MCT, we do Draw and Write through history, and she writes paragraph narrations on SOTW and illustrates them. On the computer, she did NaNoWriMo this year with a 10,000 word goal, and is still adding to her novel, which seems more like a collection of stories with the same characters. She enters writing contests when she can find them.

 

She gets a lot of grammar in Latin, too, which helps, too.

 

The funny thing is, I'd have said we don't do much for LA, until I wrote it all out.

 

Care to share the name of the paragraph editing app? Thanks!

[Dmmetler]

Daily Sentence Editing by Teacher Created Materials-different apps for different grades. I think DD has grade 6. She liked the daily editing by Evan Moor, and this is similar, but on the iPad.

[Tracy]

I don't think that grammar is at all important at this age, especially if the student picks it up easily.

 

For my gifted dd7, it has been important to keep her spelling up with her reading/composition level.

[mamabmw]

KISS grammar is available free and would be my choice if MCT weren't in the budget. What I like about KISS is that it pulls examples from literature like MCT and Killgallon do.

 

 

Thank you for reminding me of KISS. I remember looking at it when my dd was younger and being overwhelmed by the website, but I've spent some time sorting through the information and I think this would be a good option for us. The fact that I can begin with level 1 but use the 6th grade literature selections seems perfect for my dd! Anyone else use KISS in a similar manner?

[boscopup]

At that age, I don't think grammar and spelling are that important. My oldest is advanced in reading and grammar, and he really was bored by ANY grammar program until we got to 3rd grade level. I'm happily using R&S English 4 right now (yes, with a gifted kid - and we both like it! ;) ). It's quick and easy to get done, but it's thorough and actually does make him think some. I do NOT do it all orally. I'm finding the written work to be very beneficial for him. I assign usually about half of the exercises, written. If there are 10 sentences to diagram, I'll just pick 2 or 3 that involve different concepts, and he can do them on the white board.

 

I have focused on spelling since 1st grade, but my son taught himself to read and didn't have a strong phonics background. We're using R&S Spelling now, which is also quick and easy to get done, but thorough and contains some challenge in the exercises. I'm very happy with it, and it's independent!

 

I read aloud to him regularly and think that's a good thing to continue. I do not have him read aloud to me (he reads aloud from the Bible sometimes and does so in his class at church regularly... my DH, who taught the class some, said he reads just as well out loud as the other kids, which are 4th-5th graders... my son is 3rd).

 

I spend very little time on DS's stronger LA subjects, since I do want him to have plenty of playtime. In first grade, our entire school day was about 1.5 hours, including history and science. This year in 3rd, it's about 3-3.5 hours. I think I could have easily skipped grammar in 1st grade and just started with a grade 3 book in 2nd.

[MinivanMom]

I think LA instruction looks nonexistent in our home . . . or maybe it looks like we unschool LA. I don't require dd9 to read, but she reads for several hours per day. We don't do spelling or grammar, but she spells everything correctly and writes grammatically. We don't use a writing program, but she fills notebooks with stories.

 

Here's are the things that I do: I read aloud to her daily (literature, history, & science), I ask her about what she is reading, I set aside a daily time for writing (she chooses her own projects), and I occasionally look over her writing projects to give feedback (on the writing process, the structure of her writing, or little stylistic things). Other than that, I mostly just stay out of her way. Being advanced at a young age doesn't mean that you're ready for lots of instruction at a young age. She has a real love of language and the written word. I really think that too much instruction at too young an age would have killed that for her. Giving her lots of space for early elementary was absolutely the right choice for her.

 

Having said that, dd is at a point where she is needing more instruction, more structure, more challenge, and more guidance. She's ready to do just a little bit more. We will be starting some new programs in the fall. Right now we're leaning toward MCT along with some additional writing resources for inspiration and reference. Even the most natural reader or writer reaches a point where she needs a little more support to inspire her and help her reach her full potential.