Classical Conversations as a secular family???

[KristenR]

I keep coming back to CC. However, my family is rather secular which is why I never went so far as to attend one of their information sessions.

 

I should state that I am not adverse to my children learning about the bible-- indeed I want my children to eventually have a good grasp of all the main religions of the world.

 

I love the classical approach we've been creating at home but I LOVE the idea of the classical co-op. The only thing in my area of any consistent and numerous attendance is the CC classes. Sure there are occasional secular co-ops that pop up but nothing as rigorous and rewarding as the classical CC approach. FYI - at this point, I have no interest in attempting to start up my own co-op.

 

That being said I went to a CC info session today and really loved everything I saw. They informed me that they have several non-Christian families and I want to try to talk to them a bit to see how the implementation works. In the meantime, I thought I would ask if there are any secular folks here who are enrolled or have attempted it? I'd love to hear if you felt it was manageable or not.

 

Was the biblical worldview incorporated in everything or were you able to work around it?

[foxbridgeacademy]

Interested in this also... moving to a very religious area with only 1 co-op nearby (must sign a statement of faith:( ) thinking the local CC might be an option if it is looser with its definition of "faith". Otherwise we would have to drive 30 miles into the city to find something secular.

[Paula in MS]

I would say that this could vary between communities. The timeline does cover a lot of Christian history, but you sound like you would be fine with that. (It also covers Confucius, Taoism, Islam, and Buddhism.) They are young earth in their science approach, but if I remember correctly, that will only come up in a few science weeks in cycle 3 (about origins.). The science experiment book that they use is secular. The history is very world focused.

 

Our community's morning assembly time is pretty religious. We go over the scripture passage and sometimes have a devotional. If your community has non Christians in attendance, it may not be religious. This is entirely up to the community, though. You could skip this if you had to, but it is a great way to meet people in your community. I would talk to other people in the community who are not religious and see how they feel. If they feel welcome there, I say go for it!

[Guest jeke]

I agree that it probably varies from community to community, but Timeline begins at "Creation & the Fall", History sentences include the 10 commandments, and the Latin includes learning John 1:1-7. Most, or all, communities begin with a prayer to Jesus and all tutors must sign a statement of faith. So, if you are comfortable with all of that, then it might be a good fit for you.

[MeganW]

I am in a middle-of-the-road Christian group for CC. The group south of us is much much more religious, and most members at that CC are fundamentalist Christians. The group north of us is a bunch of hippies, and I can't imagine that many are Christians. The point of this is to tell you that the groups REALLY vary a LOT. You need to get in with a group you will be comfortable with.

 

As far as the CC materials themselves, last year we memorized the beginning of John 1, and this year it is the 10 Commandments. There are also a few Bible events in the timeline. So not too much, but there definitely is some Christian content.

[fourisenough]

I'm drawn to CC for similar reasons, and also concerned we wouldn't fit in, being a secular family. I'll watch the responses to this thread closely.

[KristenR]

Thanks everyone. I have decided to go to the open house for the group nearest us. I figure this way I can meet and talk to the folks involved and see how they would feel about having us. From what you have all said, I would be fine with the amount of biblical content. I can even handle them memorizing the Ten Commandments because historically and culturally they are important. Sounds like I would have the rest of the week to impart my views and interpretation of things.

 

I think my biggest concern is that my girls may eventually feel like outsiders though.

[k3bzr18]

for what its worth, I am a Foundations Director and CC accepts all families as long as those families realize we are a Christian community. That means there is not an issue with someone being secular as long as changes are not expected to be made to accomodate non-Christians. I hope you do check it out, we have an amazing campus and my children love it. I was so glad we started it!

:001_smile: :001_smile:

[fourisenough]

Thanks everyone. I have decided to go to the open house for the group nearest us. I figure this way I can meet and talk to the folks involved and see how they would feel about having us. From what you have all said, I would be fine with the amount of biblical content. I can even handle them memorizing the Ten Commandments because historically and culturally they are important. Sounds like I would have the rest of the week to impart my views and interpretation of things.

 

I think my biggest concern is that my girls may eventually feel like outsiders though.

 

 

Hi, Kristen. Just curious if you did visit a CC community and, if so, what you thought about it. As I said earier in the thread, we are also a secular family thinking of joining CC for next year. I loved my recent visit and am leaning toward giving it a shot...

[km123175]

We are a secular family (learn about lots of different religions). The group we visited had many fundamentalist christians with very conservative social views as well. I was willing to deal with the Christian content for the community, but then I realized I felt like a spy in the community. Everyone assumed they were in their good Christian community and I did not want to disrupt their thihnking in that way.

 

So, while they would have welcomed us, I felt like I didn't belong - even though they would have accepted us. If I lived near the hippie group then I'd be all about it, I'm sure. :)

 

I'm still looking for a secular version of sometihng similar. My husband and kids attend a co-op established by a group of christians and for some reason I feel a bit less "spy-like" in that group. That may be because my best friend and I decided to join together; so, we both know there's at least one other free thinker there. :) We just keep our heads down and our nose out of their political conversations.

[fourisenough]

 

I'm still looking for a secular version of sometihng similar.

 

I've given this a lot of thought. Not sure what you're currently using for curriculum or the ages of your students, but I think you could use a lot of the Peace Hill Press materials in a "CC" type of way. In fact, that is what we've evolved into doing this year. It is a work-in-progress, but both my 8-year old and I are having fun with it.

 

SOTW could be used for the history memory work. The review cards from the student pages could be your 'history sentences' to memorize; add dates to the cards and they could also be used for timeline memorization. Grammar definitions (from FLL) and lists (such as prepositions, helping verbs, common pronouns, etc) could be added to a deck of index cards for memorization. Spelling/syllabication rules, math formulas, geographic features and locations, would be nice additions, as would poems and greek/latin roots or vocabulary from foreign language of choice.

 

Of course, the big issue, at least for me, is still needing community and accountability. CC seems to be a great solution to both of these problems, but it introduces the worldview dilemma to those of us who homeschool secularly.

[KristenR]

 

Hi, Kristen. Just curious if you did visit a CC community and, if so, what you thought about it. As I said earlier in the thread, we are also a secular family thinking of joining CC for next year. I loved my recent visit and am leaning toward giving it a shot...

 

 

 

 

I did attend the open house. I loved everything that I saw education-wise. The folks were open and friendly so I figured I would just be brutally honest and stated we were non-Christian but open-minded and that we were not looking to be converted or what have you. They seemed extremely open-minded back and I feel better for having gotten that part out of the way from the get-go. No surprises for anyone down the road and all.

 

My dh and I are 99% certain CC is the route we will go next year. At first I was bummed that there wasn't a secular co-op and I toyed with the idea of starting up my own co-op. But I honestly don't have the time or energy right now. Also, I know I do want my children to have some exposure to the bible, it's such a powerful cultural and literary staple of society. I think CC will be perfect for us for that. With CC, I am still my child's teacher, and I do the majority of the teaching. We will take the bible passages and biblical worldview that comes up in class and discuss it at home together afterwards. It'll be a great way to start a dialogue.

[fourisenough]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like CC could be a terrific fit for you and your girls.

[Guest kimberwindas]

I just recently attended a CC open house and decided to join for the upcoming school year. I am new to home schooling and I too have a secular approach to education. I also have a Christian upbringing, believe in God and have tried to raise my son with good manners and strong values, albeit we are not religious and do not attend church. I felt CC was very welcoming and while I didn't announce myself as a non-Christian- for this wouldn't be true either- I plainly stated my interests in CC were academic based. Most of my friends have pulled their children from our neighborhood public schools and have them in one of several religious affiliated private schools despite the fact those decisons were based on academics, not religion. I think most of my friends are like myself, not overly religious but consider ourselves to have strong values, and view some religious instruction as a benefit, so long other academics are competently addressed and context is still given by the family. I was also a high social studies teacher and let me tell you there is an extreme liberal bias in today's public education system to the extent that in many ways it could be viewed as socialist indoctrinization. The bottom line is no matter what "community" you belong to there will be an underlying belief system influencing it. While CC is not in total alignment with my beliefs I think there is enough common values and a shared educational vision, to offset some adjustments in my son's educational exposure. So with just my toes in the water, I see a lot more positives than negatives. I really liked the people I have met in the CC community we are joining, and given the extensive conversations I have had thus far with the half a dozen members I have met, the educational standards of CC more closely mirror mine than those I have seen in the overly secularized and socialistic public venue I have witnessed as a parent and an educator. So I guess what I am trying to say is I hope CC will be a good fit despite my secular orientation to education, that the religious exposure will enhance my son's education and I am excited to give it a try.

[fourisenough]

I just recently attended a CC open house and decided to join for the upcoming school year. I am new to home schooling and I too have a secular approach to education. I also have a Christian upbringing, believe in God and have tried to raise my son with good manners and strong values, albeit we are not religious and do not attend church. I felt CC was very welcoming and while I didn't announce myself as a non-Christian- for this wouldn't be true either- I plainly stated my interests in CC were academic based. Most of my friends have pulled their children from our neighborhood public schools and have them in one of several religious affiliated private schools despite the fact those decisons were based on academics, not religion. I think most of my friends are like myself, not overly religious but consider ourselves to have strong values, and view some religious instruction as a benefit, so long other academics are competently addressed and context is still given by the family. I was also a high social studies teacher and let me tell you there is an extreme liberal bias in today's public education system to the extent that in many ways it could be viewed as socialist indoctrinization. The bottom line is no matter what "community" you belong to there will be an underlying belief system influencing it. While CC is not in total alignment with my beliefs I think there is enough common values and a shared educational vision, to offset some adjustments in my son's educational exposure. So with just my toes in the water, I see a lot more positives than negatives. I really liked the people I have met in the CC community we are joining, and given the extensive conversations I have had thus far with the half a dozen members I have met, the educational standards of CC more closely mirror mine than those I have seen in the overly secularized and socialistic public venue I have witnessed as a parent and an educator. So I guess what I am trying to say is I hope CC will be a good fit despite my secular orientation to education, that the religious exposure will enhance my son's education and I am excited to give it a try.

 

 

How old is your student/what grade? Will you be doing Foundations? Foundations + Essentials? Glad that you have found a 'fit' with CC. I could have written your post; in our situation, religion is less of a barrier or dividing line than academic standards and educational goals.

[airforcefamily]

We decided against CC when we learned some of the assignments involve copying and/or memorizing bible verses. I'm generally ok with the kids attending programs that call themselves Christian but, as Catholics, we were not ok with this particular group.

[Guest kimberwindas]

How old is your student/what grade? Will you be doing Foundations? Foundations + Essentials? Glad that you have found a 'fit' with CC. I could have written your post; in our situation, religion is less of a barrier or dividing line than academic standards and educational goals.

 

 

My son is 9, in 3rd grade. We are starting with just the Foundations program- in part because I want to make sure this will work for us and also because the rigor of Essentials would be too much for my son in 4th grade. I sat in on a Foundations class (with my son) and an Essentials (without) to check out the programs and to help me with a few curriculum choices for next year. I really liked the material in Foundations and the classroom interaction- very positive. I did like the Essentials teacher that I observed and felt the material was well presented but overreliance on Biblical scripture and the depth of the material definitely gave me pause. I chose the new 4th grade Hake Grammar as a possible bridge to Essentials because it is secular but also a comprehensive grammar and writing program which appears to have the right amount of cogency for my son. I say "possible" because I may skip Essentials or do just one year in lieu of a more secularlized grammar and writing program and move to Challenge A ( with its very compelling scope and sequence) at the appropriate time. Knowing that the originator Leigh started this community at the Challenge level, I don't think this idea is that out of the park and it certainly is less expensive. I will make the choice that best fits for my son and hopefully that decision will be supported by CC. There are many new families in the CC community I am joining and many of them didn't have their sons start Essentials until 5th grade anyway. These are my thoughts right now on the matter- a lot will depend on how this thing moves from theory to reality. The good thing is my son already knows a few CC home-schoolers through a gym activity we are involved in and these same kids asked about my son the one day I went without him. How comfortable he is in the CC classroom both socially and academically will dictate the success of this program for me.

[fourisenough]

Thanks for the detailed response. My daughter is a young 3rd grader (end of October birthday), so if I enroll her in Essentials, she'd be turning 9 two months into the program. I haven't yet observed an Essentials class; the first CC community I visited doesn't have an Essentials group this year (their first), but they plan to add one for next year. I am scheduled to observe at another community on 3/19 that does have a current Essentials class.

 

I just ordered the DVD set Tour Guide: Essentials of the English Language, 6-Disc Set by Leigh Bortins. I'm hoping I'll have a much better feel for the program after viewing the DVD and sitting in on the live class. My daughter is a strong writer and really enjoys grammar, but she is young for the group. We're happily using FLL 3 & WWE 3 this year and I could certainly continue with the next level of each next year, joining Essentials the following year. I'm basically talking aloud to myself here, although it is helpful to discuss this with others who are in a similar situation.

[Guest kimberwindas]

Thanks for the detailed response. My daughter is a young 3rd grader (end of October birthday), so if I enroll her in Essentials, she'd be turning 9 two months into the program. I haven't yet observed an Essentials class; the first CC community I visited doesn't have an Essentials group this year (their first), but they plan to add one for next year. I am scheduled to observe at another community on 3/19 that does have a current Essentials class.

 

I just ordered the DVD set Tour Guide: Essentials of the English Language, 6-Disc Set by Leigh Bortins. I'm hoping I'll have a much better feel for the program after viewing the DVD and sitting in on the live class. My daughter is a strong writer and really enjoys grammar, but she is young for the group. We're happily using FLL 3 & WWE 3 this year and I could certainly continue with the next level of each next year, joining Essentials the following year. I'm basically talking aloud to myself here, although it is helpful to discuss this with others who are in a similar situation.

If your daughter is strong in grammar and likes to write she may do very well even if she is on the young side and I have been told that it is intended to spiral in terms of mastery. There was a range of 9 to 11 year olds in the class I observed. My son is weak in both of these areas. Because this was our first year homeschooling and there was no attempt to teach grammar, spelling or proper writing in the public school he attended last year, we were starting from square one with all the basics- noun, verb, utilizing punctuation, paragraphs. Curiously, I found that he is actually a decent speller now that he is held to a standard and dosen't try to spell everything phonetically. So I started off this year in panic mode and I calmed myself by focusing on "catch up". Next year I want to build on the scope of my instruction (although I have been slowly adding on as the year has progressed) and go beyond the basics with a comprehensive foundation(thats where CC comes in.) Let me know how you like Essentials- I am always thinking ahead and appreciate others reviews- while I am not afraid to take a leap, I do a lot of research on curriculum choices before I jump onboard. Good luck with it all.

[fourisenough]

Let me know how you like Essentials- I am always thinking ahead and appreciate others reviews- while I am not afraid to take a leap, I do a lot of research on curriculum choices before I jump onboard. Good luck with it all.

 

Just got a shipping notification from CC on the Tour Guide: Essentials DVD set: it should arrive Wednesday. Now, the real coup will be trying to find time to watch the whole thing! Once I've seen it and visited the Essentials class on the 19th, I'll report back with my impressions and my decision about whether to enroll this year or next or not at all.

 

I can understand why it would not have been a good option for you in your first or even second year homeschooling. Building a proper foundation after coming out of public school is critical, even if just to establish (in your son's mind) why learning grammar is important.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

We decided against CC when we learned some of the assignments involve copying and/or memorizing bible verses. I'm generally ok with the kids attending programs that call themselves Christian but, as Catholics, we were not ok with this particular group.

 

During Cycle 3, you do memorize John 1 in Latin and English as a type of translation exercise, and Cycle 1 & 2 each have a (non-required) Bible passage to memorize. I can't think of any time where copying Bible verses is required. (FYI, I'm a CC director and we've been in CC for seven years.)