Kendall Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 The first one is is from the Rod and Staff 7th grammar books. This issue is also in other Rod and Staff grammar books (a strong program that I will continue to use!) but I have been skipping it. I'm going off memory on the second two, but there are definitely problems like this. They are to choose the correct pronoun. Naomi told Ruth and (she, her) to return to Moab. John will attend with (he, him) and (they, them). (We,us and they, them) will go to the fair. I know the correct answers here, but these sentences are just unpleasant to listen to. I don't want them to write this way and I don't think that we(English speaking peoples) typically talk this way. I have been skipping these and only doing the sentences that are better. Do you agree/disagree with my assessment? Thanks, Kendall Quote
EKS Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 Yes, I agree. But because of that they are good exercises to help understand subject and object pronoun usage. Quote
Matryoshka Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 Well, if you're suggesting that what "sounds" correct to you is to use object pronouns in the subject position and subject pronouns in the object position, I know that it is widely done these days, but that incorrect usage grates horribly on my nerves. I think it started with everyone taught that "Jane and me went to the store" was wrong, so people started over"correcting" and thought that one should never use an object pronoun after "and", and instead of "Bob went with Jane and me" it should be "Bob went with Jane and I". Ow, ow, ow. No, no, no. Now it seems lots of people get it doubly wrong and say things like "Between you and I, Jane and me are really good friends." :svengo: :willy_nilly: Makes my ears bleed. Quote
Cosmos Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 Well, if you're suggesting that what "sounds" correct to you is to use object pronouns in the subject position and subject pronouns in the object position, I know that it is widely done these days, but that incorrect usage grates horribly on my nerves. I don't think she's suggesting that. I think she's suggesting that the sentence structures themselves are awkward and contrived. And of course they are! They are contrived especially to practice unusual pronoun situations. I guess what I would do is have my ds (who is also in R&S 7 -- not sure if we've gotten to these yet or not) choose the correct pronoun and then recast the sentence entirely in natural English. For example-- Naomi told Ruth and (she, her) to return to Moab. Naomi told Ruth and Orpah* to return to Moab. (It's unnatural to combine a name with a pronoun here, and potentially confusing.) *Had to look that one up. My Bible knowledge is appalling! John will attend with (he, him) and (they, them). John will attend with Henry and his sisters. (We,us and they, them) will go to the fair. The Smiths will go to the fair with our family. Quote
EKS Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 Well, if you're suggesting that what "sounds" correct to you is to use object pronouns in the subject position and subject pronouns in the object position, I know that it is widely done these days, but that incorrect usage grates horribly on my nerves. I think it started with everyone taught that "Jane and me went to the store" was wrong, so people started over"correcting" and thought that one should never use an object pronoun after "and", and instead of "Bob went with Jane and me" it should be "Bob went with Jane and I". Ow, ow, ow. No, no, no. Now it seems lots of people get it doubly wrong and say things like "Between you and I, Jane and me are really good friends." :svengo: :willy_nilly: Makes my ears bleed. :iagree: The I vs me thing is a different issue. It's the mixing of certain pronouns and proper nouns and two pronouns (except I and me and sometimes they and them), I think. Quote
Matryoshka Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 I don't think she's suggesting that. I think she's suggesting that the sentence structures themselves are awkward and contrived. And of course they are! They are contrived especially to practice unusual pronoun situations. Oh, okay! That makes much more sense. :) I do think they're important practice to reinforce avoiding horrors like "between you and I", but yeah, those sentences as written sound odd because of the sheer number of pronouns. And in regular usage, people don't tend to use "they" or "them" as a compound pronoun - the "they" or "them" would just include the person added with "and"... Quote
Kendall Posted February 9, 2013 Author Posted February 9, 2013 Yes, Cosmos- that is what I was meaning and those are great ideas to have them choose the correct pronoun and then to write the sentence in a better way! I'll do that. It is so many pronouns that sound odd. Quote
Alessandra Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 I don't think she's suggesting that. I think she's suggesting that the sentence structures themselves are awkward and contrived. And of course they are! They are contrived especially to practice unusual pronoun situations. I guess what I would do is have my ds (who is also in R&S 7 -- not sure if we've gotten to these yet or not) choose the correct pronoun and then recast the sentence entirely in natural English. For example-- Naomi told Ruth and (she, her) to return to Moab. Naomi told Ruth and Orpah* to return to Moab. (It's unnatural to combine a name with a pronoun here, and potentially confusing.) *Had to look that one up. My Bible knowledge is appalling! John will attend with (he, him) and (they, them). John will attend with Henry and his sisters. (We,us and they, them) will go to the fair. The Smiths will go to the fair with our family. What she said. Even though you can make a grammatically correct sentence, it sounds awkward. The rephrasing is MUCH better. Quote
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