Pen Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 My son's friend does what I now have come to call "going into a turtle" or "turtling". If something comes up that is new, or bothersome, or she is not good at, or has had negative associations with in the past (this includes reading), she will cross her arms over her chest, pull her head and neck down and into her self and sort of collapse as if trying to shut out the world. She will not talk in these situations. When he was in school they were in the same class, and he says the teacher used to yell at her which would then make it worse, also would send her down to kindergarten for the behavior. Anything ring a bell with this description? Any ideas what to do about it? I had never seen it before until the two of them were playing together yesterday, and then I saw it twice, once when I said something about reading, and once when, going to my son's fencing class with him, the instructor tried to get her to join in with the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 It could be her self-defence mechanism for perfectionism. If she is sensitive like my older boy is, that would include curling up somewhere and not willing to talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodob Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Perfectionism is also what occurred to me. Which is where one sets very high benchmarks for everything that one does. But when this is obsessive, it can then result in a 'fear of failure'? So that they may then avoid doing anything, unless they already know that they will be able to do it very well. That they already know that they are good at. Where 'going turtle' is a way to avoid it. If they don't attempt it, then they can't fail their attempt. But the obvious problem this causes, is nothing new can ever be learned? Resolving this, really involves reframing their attitude to mistakes and failure and getting something wrong? So that they rather see the value of making mistakes as we learn something. Which is the difference between knowing and understanding. Where it is through making and understanding our mistakes, that we understand why something is correct. Not simply know what is correct. So that it could be helpful for her to see the value of making mistakes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Thank you! As another adult who sometimes is around this child, would you have any suggestions for anything I could do or say (or perhaps my son if that were possible)--or that I should not do or not say-- that could be helpful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 When one of my boy goes into turtle mode, the other usually brings a "bribe" to cheer him up. Doesn't work most of the time but thats okay. I won't say anything differently. We just do whatever activity we are doing but near the "turtle" so that the child would peek and hopefully join in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 We had the experience of a young PE teacher asking for 'your best' and accusing our child of not doing his best. It was the case where the adult meant best effort, not most perfect accomplishment. The child had done his best effort and was penalized for not being able to do the activity up to the arbitrary standard. Child felt he would continue to be yelled at, and because of his sensory issues and knowledge of his personal capabilities, sought to avoid that adult. Since this young lady has had a year of being yelled at and banished, I'd seek professional help. Almost 4 years of it, from 1st grade to 4th. I was shocked. I knew she had been getting into "trouble" in school--my son coming home and telling me that G was in trouble again or was sent back to kindergarten again was frequent. But I had no idea till day before yesterday that it was for what I then saw, and my son said that yeah, that was what she used to do and Mr. X used to yell at her, and so on. I think most teachers and schools I have been in during my own schooling would likely have ignored it, and maybe the child would be left out and lost, but not actively yelled at and punished. She was kicked out of school now and so the parents are probably going to homeschool and thus I should be seeing a lot more of her, I expect, which is why I was asking for myself for if it comes up again in front of me. I think the parents are seeking professional help, though I am not sure if it is the sort of help that will actually help. For one thing, I think they see it as "resistence" or" defiance"-- while to me it seemed more like fear, like when a turtle hides. I might be able to suggest what sort of professional help might be helpful, but I am not the parent and it is not at all my call. They have their own ideas, which are very different than mine in such matters. I am not sure if it plays a part, but the father is German and I think maybe has a more toe-the-line attitude as well as an attitude that said the teacher is always right, respect the teacher, more than Americans tend to have. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but could be part of the perfectionism and fear of failure if that is what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 sounds like anxiety to me, also. i would make sure she has a safe place to be . . . like 'do you want to come sit here next to me?' and even talk ahead of time about - if you get upset, you can come sit next to me until you feel like participating again. and i would think the reading needs to go way back to a level and amount thats not stressful, and with really high interest books, so she becomes interested enough in it to voluntarily try again, but with no pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 A strong willed perfectionist child can be both defiant and afraid of failure. I am like that and so are my boys. My kids go to german school and the German parents are not as "teacher is always correct" as the generation before us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodob Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 While I appreciate her age, perhaps you could introduce her to a more scientific research model of thinking? Which basically involves posing a 'problem', and then have her briefly identify various possible options to resolve it? Having identified these options, then have her look deeper into each one? After doing this, she can work out which is the best option. Where the point is to highlight to her, that the only way to find the best option? Is to consider and perhaps test them all. So that 'failure' is rather seen as essential to eliminating some options, on the path to finding the best option. Where it was important for her to understand why some options failed? Also how these 'failed options' helped her to work out and understand the best option. So that she might rather see failure as a building block to understanding. Though failure shouldn't be dismissed, as it might be the best option in another circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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