Help with Disciplining 4 year old

[LizzyBee]

 

Part of why this is so intimidating is that my son is an INCREDIBLY difficult child, and I struggle to understand him. Sometimes he seems to understand things, but other times he lives in his own world. It has gotten to the point where I have to yell loudly before he even pays attention to me, and of course that wears on both of us. I come from a background of verbally advanced children who were speaking in complete sentences by that age and had a higher level of comprehension, so learning how to communicate with a child who is verbally behind is challenging to say the least. He also sneaks around the house getting into stuff when I am not looking, picks on his brother, and apparently is incapable of learning how to clean his room.

 

On a more positive note, he is very loving much of the time, physically active, and insanely imaginative.

 

 

I have two kids who have auditory processing disorder and delayed language skills, and the bolded sentence above just screams APD to me. The thing is, if you yell, your kids won't pay attention until you yell. The antidote is to get quieter rather than louder when you want to catch their attention. If APD is contributing to your ds' inattention, touch him on the hand or shoulder to get his attention, kneel down to look him in the eye, and then say what you need to say. Then ask him to repeat it back to you so that you know he heard and processed what you said.

 

As for cleaning his room, he is 4. Telling him to clean his room has no meaning. At that age, you have to go in the room with him, start at one end of the room, and give him one command at a time. "Bring the book and I'll put it on the shelf for you. Great. Now pick up the jeans you wore yesterday. Put them in the laundry basket. Good job. Now put all the legos in the box. I need to go check on sister, so I'll just set this timer. See if you can get all the legos in the box before the timer goes off.... Ok, I'm back. Oops, you missed some legos. C'mon, let's get this finished up so we can go get lunch. We can't have lunch until your room is picked up." And so on and so forth.

 

The sneaking around getting into things... well, that sounds very much like my youngest dd who has ADHD and is ALWAYS bored unless someone is paying attention to her. The only solution was to not leave her in a room by herself until she was about 5 1/2 and I could have some degree of hope that she was neither destroying anything nor creating a dangerous situation for herself. It's exhausting... but it eventually gets better.

 

Has your son had any speech or OT evaluations or therapy? If not, I highly recommend pursuing that.

 

I haven't read all the responses, so just ignore mine if it's redundant.

[LizzyBee]

Get Charlotte Mason's first book in her series, on kindle(or the Kindle Cloud Reader so you can read it on the puter) or the book.

 

A bunch of other moms and I are reading it together, and though I read it when I first started homeschooling many years ago I didn't quite pay enough attention. If I were to go back and write a book about parenting and homeschooling, it would sound like this book.

 

It is very attachment parenting oriented.

 

Stay away from the Pearls.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Charlotte-Masons-Original-Homeschooling-ebook/dp/B00A6XO23M/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1360365357&sr=1-1&keywords=charlotte+mason

 

You can get the 6 book set for $0.99 now.

[justamouse]

I'm saying this gently, and it's easy for me to understand since I've had four 4yos, but sitting with him while he's cleaning his room is one of the things that you need to be doing. I know how hard it is to have only littles. I know how hard it is to be pulled in too many directions at once. But, like a PP said, just b/c you have more things pulling at you doesn't magically make your little guy more independent and capable. He's still a little 4yo. You still have years of training ahead of you. Try to slow down and breathe so you can enjoy some of those years. Your goal is to get both of you to the other side with your relationship intact, and preferably, stronger than it is today.

 

 

My most favorite parenting book is Parenting With Grace by Popcak. The CM recommendation above is fantastic as well.

 

 

Do you specific issues that the Hive could help with? You have a huge pool of wisdom and BTDT advice sitting right here. My first, specific recommendation regarding the room cleaning would be to have a routine where you both stop everything else and pick up his room. Every day, maybe even twice a day. If you stop the mess from getting overwhelming, it won't overwhelm either of you.

 

My other specific advice would be to have a meal plan. Pick 5 breakfasts, 5 lunches, and 5 dinners. Rotate through those 5 meals Monday-Friday. Every week. Start there and see how you feel in a few weeks. FWIW, I rarely thaw meat before dinner. Part of my routine is to throw the meat into the microwave while I empty the dishwasher.

 

 

Ack, I forgot about that book! that IS the most awesome parenting book I've ever ever read. Ever. Man, I leant that book out--I should ask for it back so I remember to recommend it! :D

[mrseshaw]

While not a book on discipline, Whole Brain Child was a good read.

[Laura Corin]

You talked in your earlier post about his being in a world of his own and that leading to your yelling. There's a technique from 'Hold On To Your Kids' that might be useful. He talks about - I think he calls it this - collecting your child. Before you expect compliance (or anything much) walk up to the child, say his name gently, touch him on the arm.... only when he looks up and his eyes focus do you start talking. Until then, he's really not in your world. Both my boys have gone through phases of being difficult to drag back to this world. They grew out of them.

 

FWIW, Hobbes was a late speaker and still has a stammer. I now can't get him to stop talking and he impresses widely with his vocabulary. You never know how they will turn out.

 

ETA: you might like to include lots of exercise in the day - Hobbes needed at least an hour a day of good exercise at that age to allow him to behave well.

 

Laura

[briansmama]

I second Parenting with Love and Logic.

 

My 5 yr old ds has calmed down quite a bit but when he was 4 we had to make sure he had:

 

1. A solid rhythm that centered around main meals (with protein and fat), afternoon rest time, and a consistent early bedtime.

2. A gluten-free diet and as few grains as possible (causes spike in blood sugar and greatly affected his mood).

3. Swift action every time he acted out (we didn't spank but we did require that he sit down and calm down after an offense).

4. Limited time with other young kids.

5. Lots and lots of outdoor time, lifting heavy things, moving his body, running, bouncing, etc.

6. A mini trampoline can work wonders!

 

He's MUCH more reasonable now. But for a while there Dh, older ds, and I were pulling our hair out.

[briansmama]

Barefoot, I just read your longer post explaining more of your situation. Just wanted to tell you that you can totally do this, and that 4 is still very young. You have plenty of time! You do not need to start formally homeschooling your ds right now (and it sounds like he could use the extra time to get into his body more). Your youngest is still nursing quite a but and that is a big job.

 

As I posted before, I'd strongly recommend working on a solid daily rhythm with your dc. And also remember that most young children really can't clean up their rooms, get dressed, etc without your presence, guiding them. Maybe work on a morning pick up routine with your ds, and another in the late afternoon before dinner.

 

Just spending the next year working on creating a strong rhythm in your home will lay a great foundation for when you do begin formally homeschooling.

[Laura Corin]

Thank you all so much for the tips. My game plan for now is:

- Research recommended books and websites and buy at least one over the weekend.

- Come up with other consequences besides spanking.

- Whisper instead of yell.

- Hug Therapy.

- Stay with him while he does his cleaning.

 

I will let you all know how it goes!

 

It sounds like you are well on the way.

 

I'm going to suggest something really counter-intuitive. When Hobbes was about that age, he was always doing the wrong thing. The more I told him off, or put him on time out, the more he would do the wrong thing. Then one day, instead of punishing him, I started hugging him. When he was naughty, I would hug him close to me, talk to him about what he had done wrong and what was expected of family members, hold him until he went soft and snuggly in my arms. Then I would kiss him and send him off to undo/redo what he had done. It took a week or two for things to change, but at the end of that, he wanted to please me. To this day, I get compliments about how polite and caring he is.

 

As far as I can tell, the more I berated him or punished him, the more he felt pushed away from me and the more defiant he became. When I started to hug him to me, he felt accepted and wanted to follow the family rules. I need to stress that he did not 'get away' with things. He always had to undo/redo. But it was from within the family, not from a position of rejection.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

 

 

As for cleaning his room, he is 4. Telling him to clean his room has no meaning. At that age, you have to go in the room with him, start at one end of the room, and give him one command at a time. "Bring the book and I'll put it on the shelf for you. Great. Now pick up the jeans you wore yesterday. Put them in the laundry basket. Good job. Now put all the legos in the box. I need to go check on sister, so I'll just set this timer. See if you can get all the legos in the box before the timer goes off.... Ok, I'm back. Oops, you missed some legos. C'mon, let's get this finished up so we can go get lunch. We can't have lunch until your room is picked up." And so on and so forth.

 

 

This is exactly what tidying up was like when my boys were that age.

 

Laura

[JumpyTheFrog]

Stay away from the Pearls' materials. Don't read even a bit. We came from a church of Pearl followers and sadly used their methods on our oldest for the first three years or so. Eventually I realized how insane it all was and threw the book out.

 

Main problems:

 

-Their teachings cause parents to have an adversarial relationship with their kids. Following their advice leads parents to always assume the worst: the kid is rebellious rather than tired, hungry, etc. They lead inexperienced parents (like we were) to conclude that feeding a very hungry child before making them say, finish cleaning their room (rather than after) is "letting them get away with something."

 

-They are completely ignorant of normal development. They say that if you ask your kid once if he wants ice cream and he says yes, that from then on he can understand every command you give and anything other than immediate obedience means he's a little hellion in training. Even a barely verbal child is expected to fully obey, at all times.

 

-Children are only allowed to be happy.

 

-Spanking is really the method they endorse. They teach parents to use it for all offenses, no matter the age or ability of the child. That's how people have switch their kids to death because they specifically state to keep switching until the child's will is broken.

 

-The Pearls are incredibly arrogant and judgmental. They think parents that use other methods, like time out, are wimps and should expect their kids to all be gay humanists that love abortion, etc.

 

-One former friend told me that she was having to switch her son (maybe 3 at the time) about 50 times per day. She saw nothing wrong with it.

 

-The Pearls' followers wind up expecting their kids to be able to do various things YEARS before it's appropriate. The Pearl followers we knew expected their kids to sit quietly through a 2-3 hour church service by about age 18 months. If the toddler couldn't, they'd practice sitting still for church at home and would be switched every time they got too noisy or off their seats. Babies under a year were expected to play quietly for long periods (1-2 hours) on a small blanket without getting off.

 

-Mother's intuition is completely ignored.

 

The way we parented our oldest for his first three years verses our second is completely different. Guess what? Little Guy is three and can sit quietly through church for an hour and we didn't have to spank him into it. He behaves just as well, or even better, contrary to MP's claims that he'd end up a little hellion.

[beaners]

Babies under a year were expected to play quietly for long periods (1-2 hours) on a small blanket without getting off.

 

 

 

I saw a mention of "blanket training" somewhere else today and I haven't been able to shake it since. The whole idea makes me so sad and so sick to my stomach. It reminds me of the learned helplessness dog experiments. :crying:

[elfgivas]

hugs.

when the kids are squirrely, i always work on me first. i make sure i am going to bed early enough to get a good sleep. i make sure i'm getting up in a timely fashion, and that i have a routine to my early morning that includes unloading the dishwasher, reloading it and starting a load of laundry. and making breakfast. then, i choose a book to read aloud at breakfast, and sit with dear children and read while they eat. then everyone goes to their rooms for 15 minutes of tidying.

 

i add in lots of outdoor time, and limit media time, and after a week, i have myself in okay shape. then i start to add in school once there is a framework to hang it on.

 

re "how to discipline". its not a question i ever ask. rather, i ask "how can i help dc learn to speak politely to me?" or "how can i help dc develop the habit of making their beds each morning?" or ??? ie. the focus is on raising healthy happy competent children, not on disciplining them....

 

fwiw,

ann

 

re pearl's book: remember the song "the gambler"? "know when to walk away, know when to run".... run. run now. run fast.

[Mom-ninja.]

Playful Parenting is a good book for ideas.

 

It is hard to not lose your cool and yell. I know. It's my personal struggle.

[MEVmom]

 

I saw a mention of "blanket training" somewhere else today and I haven't been able to shake it since. The whole idea makes me so sad and so sick to my stomach. It reminds me of the learned helplessness dog experiments. :crying:

 

This statement is judgemental and not helpful. I haven't read and thereforde don't follow the Pearl books. But I have used/do use "blanket time" with my children when they are small. Not for 1-2 hrs though. More like 30 min. It is a tool to teach boundaries and contentedness when playing alone. It also allows me to take showers and other luxuries like that. This has been invaluable to me especially when I had toddlers and a newborn.

 

I'm just saying you don't know the whole story behind what people do and I don't think you should be so quick to assume it's abuse. My toddlers have always looked forward to blanket time as part of their routine.

[Mergath]

 

This statement is judgemental and not helpful. I haven't read and thereforde don't follow the Pearl books. But I have used/do use "blanket time" with my children when they are small. Not for 1-2 hrs though. More like 30 min. It is a tool to teach boundaries and contentedness when playing alone. It also allows me to take showers and other luxuries like that. This has been invaluable to me especially when I had toddlers and a newborn.

 

I'm just saying you don't know the whole story behind what people do and I don't think you should be so quick to assume it's abuse. My toddlers have always looked forward to blanket time as part of their routine.

 

 

And when you trained them to stay on the blanket, did you whip them with plumbing line when they tried to crawl off and explore?

[Catwoman]

 

And when you trained them to stay on the blanket, did you whip them with plumbing line when they tried to crawl off and explore?

 

 

If she follows the Pearls' example, she most certainly does. :ack2:

 

Otherwise, it's probably just a fun playtime kind of thing. ;)

[MEVmom]

Of course not. It stretches the limits of credulity that anyone would do that. I did give a swat and replace them on the blanket though (after I had established what I meant by "stay" and knew they understood it). Sorry if that offends you. Mostly I used a kitchen timer and built up gradually from 5 min at a time. They learned very quickly that I would come get them as soon as it rang.

[Catwoman]

 

This statement is judgemental and not helpful. I haven't read and thereforde don't follow the Pearl books. But I have used/do use "blanket time" with my children when they are small. Not for 1-2 hrs though. More like 30 min. It is a tool to teach boundaries and contentedness when playing alone. It also allows me to take showers and other luxuries like that. This has been invaluable to me especially when I had toddlers and a newborn.

 

I'm just saying you don't know the whole story behind what people do and I don't think you should be so quick to assume it's abuse. My toddlers have always looked forward to blanket time as part of their routine.

 

 

I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that you would leave toddlers unattended on a blanket for 30 minutes while you took a shower? :eek:

[Mergath]

Of course not. It stretches the limits of credulity that anyone would do that. I did give a swat and replace them on the blanket though (after I had established what I meant by "stay" and knew they understood it). Sorry if that offends you. Mostly I used a kitchen timer and built up gradually from 5 min at a time. They learned very quickly that I would come get them as soon as it rang.

 

 

More people than you'd think do it, and when the people around here refer to "blanket time" in regard to the Pearls, that's the kind they're talking about. Even the most enthusiastic pro-spankers here don't tend to take kindly to people who beat infants with a length of flexible pipe.

 

If you have no idea what I'm talking about or who the Pearls are, check this out:

 

Why Not Train a Child?

[Reflections]

 

If she follows the Pearls' example, she most certainly does. :ack2:

 

Otherwise, it's probably just a fun playtime kind of thing. ;)

 

 

 

I've NEVER read the pearls - but I've heard of them here - and nothing that has been said has turned my stomach more than this. YEEGADS!

 

I'm off to scrub my mind clean and hug my children.

[Catwoman]

Of course not. It stretches the limits of credulity that anyone would do that. I did give a swat and replace them on the blanket though (after I had established what I meant by "stay" and knew they understood it). Sorry if that offends you. Mostly I used a kitchen timer and built up gradually from 5 min at a time. They learned very quickly that I would come get them as soon as it rang.

 

 

The Pearls have recommended doing things exactly like that. I know it sounds hard to believe, but they are really over-the-top. I was stunned when I read some of their parenting advice.

 

I won't comment on the "swatting" for leaving the blanket thing, because we obviously have very different parenting styles.

[beaners]

I'd prefer to put my baby in a playpen or crib instead of spanking them if I needed to be sure they would stay somewhere.

 

Yes, the idea of swatting a baby for crawling off a blanket makes me very sad and sick to my stomach. I guess you were right to find my statement judgmental.

[MEVmom]

GASP! I'm saying that I have no problem leaving a well-trained 2 yr old on a blanket in my child proofed bedroom while I shower in the adjoining bathroom. Younger than 2 and they are in a pack-in-play.

[Pamela H in Texas]

nd when you trained them to stay on the blanket, did you whip them with plumbing line when they tried to crawl off and explore?

 

I've blanket trained a few kids (wish I had with Monkey) and not once I have had to swat a kid to do it. ::::Editing since I read on and basically called a poster a name before reading her answer to this::::: Honestly, I think there is really a problem when people are hitting 10 month olds and 16month olds. I also think hitting infants and toddlers during training is ridiculous....at best. Additionally, I think there is a real issue with someone who would take a chance with a child just because they think their training is so great. I still PARENT children because they are children. I would never DREAM of leaving a blanket trained child on a blanket to take a shower!

[Joker]

Of course not. It stretches the limits of credulity that anyone would do that. I did give a swat and replace them on the blanket though (after I had established what I meant by "stay" and knew they understood it). Sorry if that offends you. Mostly I used a kitchen timer and built up gradually from 5 min at a time. They learned very quickly that I would come get them as soon as it rang.

 

 

Children are not dogs and that's what I thought of reading this. Of course, I even treat my dogs better than this I think. I know that sounds harsh, but I really can't believe I just read this.

[MEVmom]

I'd prefer to put my baby in a playpen or crib instead of spanking them if I needed to be sure they would stay somewhere.

 

Yes, the idea of swatting a baby for crawling off a blanket makes me very sad and sick to my stomach. I guess you were right to find my statement judgmental.

 

 

Define "baby". Under 2 yrs mine are in a pack-in-play for independent playtime. Over two and they are on a blanket. Do you judge every one who uses swats to dicipline their 2-yr-olds?

[Mergath]

The Pearls have recommended doing things exactly like that. I know it sounds hard to believe, but they are really over-the-top. I was stunned when I read some of their parenting advice.

 

I won't comment on the "swatting" for leaving the blanket thing, because we obviously have very different parenting styles.

 

 

I was just reading the quotes from the book on the site I linked to, and honestly, they're actually worse than I remember. I will never understand how people can read that and think it's good advice. "Switching" a four-month-old... *shakes head* Sick. Just sick.

[MEVmom]

I've blanket trained a few kids (wish I had with Monkey) and not once I have had to swat a kid to do it. ::::Editing since I read on and basically called a poster a name before reading her answer to this::::: Honestly, I think there is really a problem when people are hitting 10 month olds. I also think hitting infants and toddlers during training is ridiculous....at best.

 

 

I never said I hit 10 month olds. Under 2 yrs old I use the pack-in-play for independent playtime. Also I've never even read the Pearls' books so not sure why everyone is impying I follow their obviously extreme methods.

[Catwoman]

 

Define "baby". Under 2 yrs mine are in a pack-in-play for independent playtime. Over two and they are on a blanket. Do you judge every one who uses swats to dicipline their 2-yr-olds?

 

 

Are you really interested in what people think, or are you just trying to start a massive trainwreck thread?

 

You seem to be armed for battle, and I'm not sure why the OP's thread is being hijacked.

[Catwoman]

I was just reading the quotes from the book on the site I linked to, and honestly, they're actually worse than I remember. I will never understand how people can read that and think it's good advice.

 

 

I agree completely. I think they are certifiably insane, yet they have a cultish following. All I can think is that their supporters must be crazy control freaks who can only feel important when they're proving with physical force that they are more powerful than their infants. :angry:

[Pamela H in Texas]

MEV, the Pearls blanket train rolling and crawling children and hit them with plumbing line for rolling off, crawling off, touching the remote control put on the blanket, etc. You aligned yourself with those things when you used their words and didn't specify how you differ. What the Pearls advocate is ABUSE, plain and simple. If you advocate the same, so do you. No one is saying all spanking is abuse.

[Pamela H in Texas]

All I can think is that their supporters must be crazy control freaks who can only feel important when they're proving with physical force that they are more powerful than their infants.

 

Cat, I think it is more likely their supporters are fearful. If my 6month old acts like X, then my 26yo will do this and my child will go to a fiery hell to burn forever when they die at 86. The Pearls pretty much SAY as much.

 

Most people who don't fall for that baloney simply know better.

 

ETA: BTW, I can say this because 1) I've seen it and 2) I've lived it. When my first kids were young, I was scared to death, especially as my son became a toddler, got very strong willed, was into everything, etc. I was in a *very* conservative "little house on the prairie" baptist church. And I was scared to death my son would be like a certain family member who had gotten in trouble. I sought advice and was turned onto certain materials (not Pearls). It made sense. And it played into my fear that my two year old was going to have trouble forever if I didn't get ahold of him IMMEDIATELY. Of course, my ds simply was not going to submit. Had we tried to follow through with that, we definitely would have had to abuse him, if not been one of those families on the news. Seriously. So we learned better instead and stopped giving in to fear. In fact, we used almost NO punishment, certainly not spanking or time out, with him and his sister. My ds is now 17, in college, and an absolutely WONDERFUL, though possibly not "easy," young man :)

[Joker]

 

Define "baby". Under 2 yrs mine are in a pack-in-play for independent playtime. Over two and they are on a blanket. Do you judge every one who uses swats to dicipline their 2-yr-olds?

 

 

I wouldn't swat my baby or toddler for getting off a blanket. Ever. That's what I don't get. When my dds were young, I took my showers when dh was home in the evening. I see it as part of the price of being a mom. I'm not saying I didn't need to do something sometimes and needed them occupied, but usually I could coordinate those things with a nap. If not a nap, they could help out and be engaged. Not laying on a blanket alone afraid to move.

[MEVmom]

MEV, the Pearls blanket train rolling and crawling children and hit them with plumbing line for rolling off, crawling off, touching the remote control put on the blanket, etc. You aligned yourself with those things when you used their words and didn't specify how you differ. What the Pearls advocate is ABUSE, plain and simple. If you advocate the same, so do you. No one is saying all spanking is abuse.

 

 

Ok, I'm sorry my original statement was unclear. I thought I expressed that I haven't read, nor would I read the Pearls book. I certainly wouldn't defend the methods you describe. I used what I call "blanket time" with my kids when they were small. It had nothing to do with pipes or anything like that. When they were less than two I used the pack-in-play instead. I used the timer as a training tool not because I think my children are dogs but because they don't have a concrete sense of time and this tool helped them understand that playing independently was a predictable part of their day.

[MEVmom]

I wouldn't swat my baby or toddler for getting off a blanket. Ever. That's what I don't get. When my dds were young, I took my showers when dh was home in the evening. I see it as part of the price of being a mom. I'm not saying I didn't need to do something sometimes and needed them occupied, but usually I could coordinate those things with a nap. If not a nap, they could help out and be engaged. Not laying on a blanket alone afraid to move.

 

Ok, Horton. I concede. You're better than me. You just are. So now we've gotten that out of the way and you can go on enjoying the the straw man you've set up in place of who I actually am. But for the record...my 3 yr old is usually reading books, working puzzles, playing with potato heads, or something like that on her blanket. Not lying there afraid to move.

I'm sorry. I thought this was place where the mommy wars weren't raging like they are on the rest of the internet. I guess I was wrong.

[Joker]

Ok, I'm sorry my original statement was unclear. I thought I expressed that I haven't read, nor would I read the Pearls book. I certainly wouldn't defend the methods you describe. I used what I call "blanket time" with my kids when they were small. It had nothing to do with pipes or anything like that. When they were less than two I used the pack-in-play instead. I used the timer as a training tool not because I think my children are dogs but because they don't have a concrete sense of time and this tool helped them understand that playing independently was a predictable part of their day.

 

You can do this without the blanket method. Both of my dds played independently and I never had to use a timer or the blanket method. I could place them on the floor and be nearby to supervise them but they did not need me to interact. They would happily play for as long as they wanted, and it took place everyday. As they reached the 12-18 month stage they would happily toddle off on their own to their rooms to play alone. Again, I was nearby to supervise. I much prefer that than training/forcing them to stay on a blanket.

[Catwoman]

Ok, Horton. I concede. You're better than me. You just are. So now we've gotten that out of the way and you can go on enjoying the the straw man you've set up in place of who I actually am. But for the record...my 3 yr old is usually reading books, working puzzles, playing with potato heads, or something like that on her blanket. Not lying there afraid to move.

I'm sorry. I thought this was place where the mommy wars weren't raging like they are on the rest of the internet. I guess I was wrong.

 

Perhaps you don't realize how confrontational and defensive you sound. If anyone has started a "mommy war" on this thread, I'm sorry to say that it was you.

 

But it's not a big deal. You're still new here and we don't know you yet, so we haven't learned your personality and may be misinterpreting your intentions. I'm sure we probably agree on more things than we disagree; it just didn't seem that way in this thread.

[Joker]

Ok, Horton. I concede. You're better than me. You just are. So now we've gotten that out of the way and you can go on enjoying the the straw man you've set up in place of who I actually am. But for the record...my 3 yr old is usually reading books, working puzzles, playing with potato heads, or something like that on her blanket. Not lying there afraid to move.

I'm sorry. I thought this was place where the mommy wars weren't raging like they are on the rest of the internet. I guess I was wrong.

 

I don't think I'm better than you but it seriously hurts me to think of kids being trained to stay on a blanket. Maybe it's just something about the wording. This isn't the mommy wars. I just really don't like the idea of training kids to stay in one spot.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Okay, in MEV's defense...As a teenager, I worked in a Montessori school. Each child would grab his carpet square and work and would sit to do it. IMO, this is no different than MEV describing her daughter working puzzles or Mr. Potato Head. I think she simply accidentally aligned herself with the Pearls. Honestly, I do not see an issue with putting a 10 month old on a blanket and teaching him to stay there and play. We did this with D (a baby we had six years or so ago). I didn't want him near the dishwasher when we were emptying it. I also didn't want him getting too close when I was working out. He only slept in my arms. So I used a blanket because he hated the play pen I had. Again, I never once felt the need to swat him to keep him on the blanket. But I think it did have a purpose. But again, I'd not dream of leaving him (even had he been a year older) so I could shower.

[blondeviolin]

The year or so before we began homeschooling (and my oldest is only in first grade, do it wasn't long ago), we worked on getting a good daily routine down.

 

It meant I started really making sure that I was up with the kids and not dozing on the couch while they watched TV so I could pull it together in the AM.

 

It meant the TV or anything with a screen didn't even turn on until morning chores were done. My son was only 3.5 at the time so cleaning his room was a step-by-step process with me in there directing him. My oldest also needed step-by-step directions, but I didn't need to be in her room. I could tell her to pick up all the laundry. Then she'd come back tell me that was done. Then I'd send her to pick up five toys and come back and report. Eventually they both both got to the point where they could do it without me. My current 3.5 yo is required to make her bed, come back, then pick up five things. (I show her my full hand and say, "This many!" And she does.)

 

After we got good with no TV until chores were done and consistently getting bedrooms cleaned (them) and the dishwasher getting unloaded (me) and the table getting cleared (us), I added in reading lessons for my oldest. Eventually, we were able to add in more as the kids and I got settled each time the routine changed slightly. Their chores now include unloading the dishwasher, cleaning their rooms, and picking up the living room (in the evening).

 

This bit before you start homeschooling is a great time to get a good routine going. I second others who said make sure your health (mental, physical and spiritual) is optimal as possible.

 

On the parenting thing... Joanne's GOYB that was referenced earlier is really good. I also enjoyed Christlike Parenting. While religious in con content, a lot of it is great behavior modification training. I have one son that is really stubborn and strong-willed. Consistency and picking my battles are key for him. It's exhausting work. But he's a great little boy and the ebb and flow of his "days" is getting longer and more predictable.

 

Also, EXTEND YOURSELF SOME GRACE. Being the mom of littles is exhausting. So what if your floor has toys all over it? So what if you skipped picking up said toys to spend a good two hours in the backyard in the sunshine enjoying your kids? Those are the best days here! I love the spring and summer because we spend half the days outside and I can just watch my kids play and laugh and run. And if they'd black from dirt, well a bath is even more fun! THAT's what childhood, and ultimately parenting are about. Succeeding in parenting isn't about having a show home or the best dinners. It's about enjoying time with your kids so much that you lost track of time and missed cooking dinner because you were outside playing with your kids for five hours and whoops now it's dinner time. ;)

[MEVmom]

Thank you for making an attempt to understand, Pamela. I appreciate the respect. To the OP, I apologize for hijacking. This is your thread and I'm sorry. I wish you the best with your challenging child, as I understand what that is like.

[MrsJewelsRae]

He's only 4. :) My Youngest is 4, and he is my baby! With my first I expected so much of him so much earlier (behavioral wise) because he was a "big" brother at 22 months, I had no experience, and I didnt realize how truly too fast babyhood/toddlerhood goes. It's a trap that most moms of multiple children naturally fall into. I wish I had realized just how young 4 really was back then, give him time to still be a "baby" even if he is the bigger brother, savor his sweetness...

 

As for the Pearls, I am very familiar with them. I was given their book when my oldest was an infant, from a couple who literally bought cases of the book to hand out to others. I shook when I read it, i felt nauseous, I felt angry and almost traumatized imagining those things being done to my child! The Pearls claim their kids have turned out wonderfully- but the end doesn't justify the means, I know hundreds of people who turned out wonderfully and none of them had to be whipped, shamed and beaten to get there. I'd better leave it at that, but here is an excellent article that really sums it up nicely, and I believe it may be a 2 part so look for part 2 as well. Also, the Pearls have managed to somehow gain a very diverse and surprising following- and some have seen something in the book beyond the actual details of how to mete out the punishments, so I myself have met a few Pearl followers who I know do NOT whip, switch or beat their kids- ever! I don't understand how they can separate the abuse in the book and find a deeper theme in it... Its confusing, they don't practice the training instruction in the book, yet they recommend it anyways?! I personally believe the book is very dangerous, I would strongly advise you NOT to read it again (Ithrew my copy in my fireplace) and get that in your head. If your friend continues to push it, you need to tell her to back off.

 

http://www.challies.com/book-reviews/how-not-to-train-up-a-child

[Mom in High Heels]

I recommend the 1 2 3 method as well. I used on Indy starting around age 2.5 and after just a month or two of being completely consistent, it clicked for him that I was serious. Most of the time, I never got past 1 and he stopped doing whatever it was (or started doing what he was supposed to) because he hated sitting in the naughty chair, which was his punishment. He had to sit in the chair 1 minute for each year of his age (3 minutes at age 3, 4 minutes at age 4, etc). He hated the naughty chair because I wouldn't look at him or talk to him until his time was up. When the time was over, I would kneel down and ask him why he was in the chair, and then we would talk for a few minutes, I'd hug him and tell him that I loved him on life went on. I have never spanked him and he's a really good kid. I get compliments all the time about his behavior. Of course I may be eating my words with Han Solo. He could be super easy, but then again, you never know.

 

Good luck with this, and please try to get some help for yourself. Have you thought about trying natural supplements for your depression? Many people swear by Ginsing.

[Shawna in Texas]

One of the most interesting things I've learned as a parent is that my husband and I can have two children so far apart in personality and academic levels. My first: Easy child. Never a tantrum, reading by three, doing Latin in K, always ahead in math. Slept with us/in our room until the baby was born which people never understood, but geez, she's 14 now and has never talked back. What on earth did we do so right?

 

Now my 5yo. Well. If she were my first, I'd just now be able to shower without my husband home. She's lovable and loud and school pretty much is math and hours playing with arts and craft stuff. She refuses to learn to read. She was a late talker too, so I'm nearly convinced she'll just one day wake up knowing how to read. I've had to learn to parent in a totally different way because my 14yo was the one who taught us to be parents. She doesn't really have tantrums anymore, but she does have episodes of rigidity, maybe. Not contrariness, but like she's been overloaded with whatever (she does get overwhelmed by her spaces being cluttered, so teaching her, and I can't express how much of a sanity saver this is, her own organizational skills, has been great at helping keep her calm). We bought her a half dozen 12"x12" bins and she uses those to "organize". I've allowed her to be in charge of where her things go and it's helped bring some peace to her.

 

But at this very minute, under her craft table is shredded paper from an entire spiral notebook (there were some cut strips, but I think the scissors were getting tedious, she has tiny fingers and could pass as a 3yo). Upon asking what she was doing earlier (I never asked why she was making such a mess because I knew that wasn't her purpose, but my goodness it is such a mess), she said that she was making a nest for the cats. And the reason it's not picked up? Because two of our cats are lying in their paper nest and they haven't budged. The cat whisperer, she is.

 

I'm learning that there's a reason for every little thing she does and my job is to watch her and love her and let her teach me what I can do to help her grow up relatively normal (or like my 14yo says, "Provide just enough emotional baggage that I'm creative, but not a prostitute"). Sometimes I do have to put myself in time-out, though. And yeah, sometimes we have days where we both have to go in time-out and the 14yo gets the living room to herself.

 

And by time-out I mean, separating yourself from the situation because I/she am not/isn't able to continue the conversation rationally. And we need to go cool off.

 

The thing is, we parents aren't perfect, and trying to correct behavior in our little people without acknowledging our own limitations and faults can lead to more frustrations. And there are always going to be things to overcome, but some days will be good, great even, and some habits will end, but new even more annoying ones will replace them.

[La Texican]

I have a five year old and a two year old. We have a couple of these to keep their toys in. http://reviews.walmart.com/1336/14705368/dora-the-explorer-multi-bin-toy-organizer-10th-anniversary-reviews/reviews.htm

 

They are sturdier and last longer than they look. The toys are not organized in the bins, they are put in the bins daily to be kept off the floor. It's not my five year olds job to clean yet. It is his job to learn how to clean. He picks up the toys in their rooms once or twice a week, I pick up the toys completely by myself four times for every one time he cleans. IMO it's better to keep the toys out of the living room as much as possible.

 

Sign up for flylady. com email list to learn a new and better way to approach housecleaning. I watched the emails for about a year before the new cleaning mindset set in. Now my house is not perfect but I'm never behind. It's good. She does sell cleaning supplies. She does send a lot of daily emails. Simply delete the ones you don't feel like spending time to read. Simple.

 

My son has washed dishes a few times, cleared or set the table quite a lot of times, swept once or twice, I have a little patch of weeds in my yard that I don't mow and I send my kids over there with a hoe to knock them down.

 

One day my house was looking really good, bookshelves organized, etc. I looked around and said, "This house looks really good!" My kid folded his arms and said haughtily, "Yeah, because of me." uh-huh, Sure. :)

[MommiNEnd]

I really like Parenting with Love and Logic and Grace Based Parenting. I've been given several of the Pearl's books by friends and have destroyed/disposed of them in the landfill rather than passing them along to others through the thrift store. There are a few useful things in them, but I don't find sifting through the junk and raising my blood pressure to be worth it.

 

Loving your kids on purpose - Danny Silk

Hes with Love and Logic.

Funny and really effective.

Trying it out on my 2 yr old and 5 yr old right now.

With some progress and small successes.

His parenting dvd 'loving your kids on purpose', is really fun to watch.

 

I have tried Kevin Leman, Dobson, and others.

But this one seems to make sense to me.

 

Pearl's books, I have heard 'not good things'

Even though i agree with spanking, pearl's book on parenting freaks me out.

(From what ive heard about it)

[violamama]

I really like Parenting with Love and Logic and Grace Based Parenting. I've been given several of the Pearl's books by friends and have destroyed/disposed of them in the landfill rather than passing them along to others through the thrift store. There are a few useful things in them, but I don't find sifting through the junk and raising my blood pressure to be worth it.

 

 

I'm not reading all the other responses because I'm lazy and because I think your reluctance to use anything related to the Pearls is a good instinct to follow.

 

We have LOVED parenting with Love and Logic. If you can get training, do. The book for teachers is by far the best and most explicitly helpful.

 

We've got a crazy-expressive and smart 4yob and I'm not sure any of us would survive with much joy in this phase without the gameplan we have through Love & Logic. It really helps diffuse our firecracker of a child!

[Barefoot Explorer]

Thank you all for all of the useful, practical advice. I am sorry that I have not posted an update yet, as I have been sick with the flu, and then Aunt Flo, and then some kind of crazy gas bubble that was worse than being in labor! (Wow, sorry that was probably TMI...) Anyway, I am trying to get back into the swing of things, and I am still having a lot of challenges with my son. Last night, I sat with him while he cleaned his room, and he actually did it, so that was a small victory.

 

One small issue that I would like some help with is this: NAPTIME. Nap-time has become battle-time around here, and I am at the end of my rope. I usually put him in a cot on the floor in our room so that I can keep an eye on him and know that he isn't sneaking around playing with toys while I put the baby down for his nap. Instead of settling down, he thrashes around, kicks the bed, rustles his covers endlessly, and is just insanely annoying. I suppose the main reason that this bothered me so much is that I was on the verge of sleep myself, and every time I almost got to sleep, he made a loud noise. So I whisper, "Matthew, stop wiggling around and go to sleep!", and he doesn't respond. So I say it in a louder voice, and he still doesn't respond. I ended up having to just get out of bed and give him a spanking because he was refusing to stop. Of course he never goes to sleep, so a few minutes later I just told him to go sit on the couch and read a book. So much for me EVER getting a nap around here.

 

This is approximately what happens everyday, regardless of how tired he is. He just refuses to ever sleep. Then I am stuck with an insanely crabby child by around 4. Often when we head out to go someplace for the evening (around 5) he will fall asleep in the car on the way, which to me means that he really did need the nap, but he is just to stubborn to take one.

 

Does anybody have any tips for how to handle this. I am losing my mind apparently...

[Laura Corin]

 

 

One small issue that I would like some help with is this: NAPTIME.

 

 

Naps are hard at this age: they sometimes still need one but not enough to overcome their wish to experience the world. I suspect that this is just a stage to live through - in a few months time the need for the nap will have diminished. I know that Calvin was not napping when he was 4 3/4 - I'm not sure when he stopped his nap though.

 

If you want him to carry on napping is there any way of getting him a good hour of really physically exhausting play in the morning? Otherwise, I would impose 'quiet time' rather than insisting on sleep. He can 'read' books, play quietly, etc., but he can't raise a ruckus and disturb the rest of the house.

 

Laura

[2squared]

Few 4yos still nap. From the sound of your exchange, your ds doesn't really need the nap anymore. When they transition out of naps, they will still fall asleep in the car and they will need earlier bedtimes. My 8yo still falls asleep in the vehicle sometimes, but he obviously doesn't need a nap anymore. When I've had 4yos and babies, I give the the 4yo screen time while I nap. Alternatively, I could have given them room time. Personally, I wouldn't care if my 4yo was playing with toys as long as he/she was quiet and I was able to nap. My goal was always for me to nap.

 

I certainly wouldn't spank for not taking a nap. You can't force someone to sleep, and a kid can't sleep if he/she really isn't tired. I say this as a huge proponent of naps. I still lay down with my toddler for 15 min every day, and I've been doing that for about 8 years.