Any piano people there?

[hollyh]

So I want to start teaching my kids to play the piano. I don't play. I did take a few classes when I was in college. I don't own a piano or keyboard.

 

I want to buy a keyboard but don't have a clue which one to buy. I don't want to have to re-purchase one in a few years b/c I made the wrong choice but don't have a clue what to look for. Can someone simply go to amazon and provide a few links for me?

 

Thank you.

 

ETA: Hi. Ok, after reading a few of your answers, I am revising my questions. :)

 

1. budget is not in 1000s. Realistically I would not want to spend more than $500. The less, the better.

2. My purpose would simply be to teach piano, I am not as concerned about it being the perfect sound, etc. My kids are young and while I think I am pretty committed to teaching them, I don't want to invest a ton of $ in case they hate it...

3. Why would someone want a piano over a keyboard or vice versa.

4. Any reasons I shouldn't buy one off of craigslist? What would be things to look at/for?

5. What is the cost to tune a piano? Cost to replace keys?

 

Thank you so much for educating me! :)

[amsunshine]

You don't say what your price range is, but for a simple keyboard/digital piano that you won't need to replace in a few years, you can't go wrong with the Yamaha: http://www.kraftmusic.com/yamaha-p-95-digital-piano-black-home-essentials-bundle.html

 

Yamaha has some fancier models, too, but if I were in your situation and buying my first digital piano (and didn't want to spend a lot), I would get this one. It has nice sound and graded hammer key action, which is important because it mimics the action of real piano keys.

 

There are lots of nicer digital pianos out there, though, too. We have a Kawai and absolutely love it. It all depends on what you are willing to spend.

 

I also recommend the Pianimals series for teaching your kiddoes. This is what we started with and it is a lovely series for little ones, with CDs to help them with learning (and you with teaching).

[hollyh]

Yes, I didn't put a budget b/c I don't even know where to start... All budget ranges and reasoning behind purchase ideas are welcome! :)

[AlmiraGulch]

My husband is the Sales Manager at a piano store and has been doing that for about 20 years.

 

He agrees that most Yamahas are great choices for beginner digitals, with the Clavinova leading the pack. They're not cheap, though, so if your budget doesn't allow for that don't be afraid of some of the other models. He also agrees with amsunshine that Kawai makes very good entry level digital models.

 

He said make sure to look for something with the graded hammer action or you're really just buying a toy. And while all of the bells and whistles that many keyboards come with today are fun, and help keep people interested in the piano, they aren't really necessary if you really are just teaching piano basics. He did say, though, that the bells and whistles help tremendously with trade-in or resale value if you ever want to upgrade.

[amsunshine]

Ok, so here is a link to what we have: http://www.kawaius.c..._2010/cn23.html

 

This is one of Kawai's basic models, and it has a very nice touch and sound (I loved some of their pricier models, yet our budget did not allow for any of those). You can't purchase these on Amazon -- you need to go to a piano dealer that carries them.

 

So, there's a more pricey recommendation. Clavinovas are also very nice, and comparable in price, touch and sound. You would have to go to a dealer and get a feel for what you like.

 

As far as what you could purchase on Amazon, the YDP series from Yamaha is also very nice, for less money than a Clavinova. You can find some of these at a local Guitar Center, which is good because you can actually play them to feel how the keys feel, and hear the sound. They also have more of a furniture look.

 

Now that I've briefly looked at a couple models, I think I might look at the newer Yamaha P105 model, instead of the P95, because the speaker wattage is higher. Again, this is the lowest I would go in keyboards (as far as price and options), particularly if I was looking for something that would last. I would mostly stay away from Casios. Some people love them. I don't care for their feel or sound. Yamahas will also get you a good price on resale, if you wanted to resell.

[amsunshine]

I wanted to add that, if you are looking at something in the price range of say, a Yamaha YDP 161, you would do well to visit a couple of piano dealers to check their prices on DPs. We got our Kawai for about the price of what a YDP 161 sells for now. You never know what the sale prices are until you visit. Also, you might find a good rent-to-own deal, either on a dp or an actual piano, at a dealership.

 

hth.

[gardenmom5]

Keyboards are cheaper, take up less space, and you can use headphones so you're not bothering someone else. they don't need to be tuned or require specialized equipment and a crew to move. Even my professional classical muscian nephew uses a keyboard.

 

a few must have features for a keyboard:

full size keys - full # of keys isn't necessary until a pianist is more advanced and needs the entire keyboard.

"touch sensitive" weighted keys

pedals (attached via usb).

either an adjustable stand, or an adjustable stool so it will be the correct height for playing.

 

they're around, and costco gets decent one in every fall for $500 or less.

[magnificent_baby]

If you aren't sure about your commitment and just want to teach basics, I would find a keyboard on Craigslist. Then, perhaps in a few years you can upgrade to a piano, if they are really interested and/or going to take lessons.

 

IMHO, I am not a fan of digital pianos if you think they will become more serious about piano, unless you can find one very cheap. They are just not the same feel *to me*, for the price. Also, from what I learned through researching online, it can be very difficult to control tone and dynamics. I owned one for a few weeks before returning it, and buying a regular piano. I could be wrong, but I also think they are limited to so many hours of play before they won't work anymore. But if you can find one cheap, than it's better than nothing!

[TeachingMyTwo]

For children to develop perfect pitch skills, they NEED a piano that is in tune. This is why I went with a basic, older model Clavinova. Digital pianos do not need tuning and it is vital for my children's ears that the piano is constantly, consistently in tune. You can also hook a digital up to headphones or learning software programs. It took about 8 months for my DD to develop perfect pitch and around a year for my son. We did a variety of things, but without a properly tuned piano the idea is hopeless.

 

I also liked the clavinova for the weighted keys and the fact that it's the same kind used at her group piano lessons. I eyed them on craigslist for months, and finally was able to get one for $150 (it even has pedals!) On a regular basis, they were posted for between $300-1000+ depending on the model. We also have a tabletop keyboard (which I ironically paid $200 new at the store) and the unweighted keys feel nothing like the clavinova. They are so flimsy and plastic, but I had no idea until I had something to compare it to. The small keyboard is nice to have when both kids practice at the same time and it's easier for a very young child to learn on, but DD had a bit of a tricky time transitioning to the weighted keys when we got the new one. It took a little time to build the finger strength.

 

I see no reason not to buy on craigslist. People unload pianos that are collecting dust all the time. There are programs that alert you when the item you are searching for is posted on CL based on your keywords (piano, keyboard, clavinova, whatever.) I called around to various piano shops and yamaha clavinova was the same answer I got again and again, and one of the salespeople even told me that if it came down to it, buy higher quality USED than brand new junk. It would serve us better, longer. I am sure one day we will upgrade to something acoustic and much nicer when the kids are in junior high or something, and when we can afford regular tuning, but right now I am very pleased with what we have.

 

ETA: Roland was also recommended several times as a reputable brand.

[amsunshine]

It's true that a dp will never feel exactly like a real piano, but then, I've found that every piano I've played has had its own unique feel/touch/tone. I disagree that one should only go with a cheap dp. Quality pianos are expensive to buy, and expensive to maintain. There are bad pianos as well as bad dps. Better to invest in a quality dp (even a used Clavinova), if getting a quality piano and maintaining it is not within the budget.

[catz]

We have a casio privia. My oldest has taken piano for 6+ years. We do have an acoustic piano, which I do prefer. He was serious enough that we decided to get this for back up and travel. this is not a fancy dp - no fancy sounds. It does have 88 weighted keys, and does get the job done here when we need it to.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PX150?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CNWQ67iqm7UCFY-iPAodlioAQQ

 

You can often get a decent used acoustic from a reputable dealer for a similar price to a decent dp. I would not buy an acoustic off of craig's list without having someone look at it. We have a couple dealers locally that sell and guarantee used piano. I'd look for someone like that. I know people who've gotten a piano off of Craig's list home and discovered it wasn't repairable. Pianos are expensive to get rid of! Our 100 year old well maintained piano costs us 75-100 a year in maintenance.

[Arcadia]

Keyboards are cheaper, take up less space, and you can use headphones so you're not bothering someone else. they don't need to be tuned or require specialized equipment and a crew to move. Even my professional classical muscian nephew uses a keyboard.

 

 

I agree. I had a Yamaha upright that cost $100 to tune annually and $300 to move. Now I have a used piano that I bought from a piano dealer/store and that cost $70~100 to tune depending on who I call. Moving the piano would cost me a lot here. I used a Roland synthesizer keyboard when I was in university hostel band.

 

There are many ways for children to acquire perfect pitch.

[amsunshine]

OP, I read your revision. In your case, I would go with something like this: http://www.kraftmusi...als-bundle.html Not much different from what I originally suggested, other than the stand and stool. This is probably the minimum you would want to spend. Check your local Guitar Center for sales/coupons. This is a quality keyboard in that pricerange. A P95 will also have an excellent resale value if you decide you need to resell.

 

P.S. You could also look for a P95 on Craigslist.

[lllll]

..

[Amy in NH]

Free pianos are listed all the time on craigslist. We got one a few years ago by asking on Freecycle.

 

A cheap keyboard won't feel or sound the same as a piano. Even a free one is better.

[hollyh]

Thank you for the replies. I have spent many hours researching today. I'm thinking I will need to save up to get what I want. Bummed to have to wait, but excited to have direction as to what I want! :)

Good ideas about looking for free ones for the time-being. I may do that. Thanks for all your help.

[Roadrunner]

Free pianos are listed all the time on craigslist. We got one a few years ago by asking on Freecycle.

 

A cheap keyboard won't feel or sound the same as a piano. Even a free one is better.

 

 

This.

Ask when it was made. Don't bring home anything too ancient.

Tuning costs will wary. We are in CA ad spend $300 for tuning. Our piano is being played on daily for several hours.

I don't know how much it costs to replace keys, but any significant reconstruction work will be very costly.

It's important to keep piano in tune and in shape. And no, it doesn't have to do with perfect pitch, which isn't something you can develop.

I was told there are keyboards with weighted keys that imitate the touch of the piano. If you can't get a piano, look into this option.

[LucyStoner]

A free out of tune piano, perhaps in need of repair, that one needs to pay to move and then have repaired and re-turned could easily cost as much if not more than a quality used digital and comes with an annual tuning cost to be helpful to a student who can't learn the notes incorrectly. I paid $400 for our barely used digital Yamaha (full set of keys, pedals, graded hammer action) off of Craigslist and have no ongoing costs. When we move, we can move it. No tuning. Headphone jack so as to not disturb others if practice time is early or late in the day etc.

[hollyh]

OP here. One more random question - do you need to put a cover on a digital piano? I know they look nice, but is it necessary? I like some that have the wood covers, but others I saw had a material wrap to cover them... I can't really imagine the kids doing so... and I don't want to everytime they use it.

[Arcadia]

Depends on how dusty your home is. My home and BIL's home tend to get dusty so we have to cover our piano and keyboard or the piano keys would have a thin layer of dust after one day.

[amsunshine]

I like having the integrated piano key cover and keep it closed when not in use to keep dust off the keys, but I haven't found that I've needed to cover the whole piano at all.

[TeachingMyTwo]

It's important to keep piano in tune and in shape. And no, it doesn't have to do with perfect pitch, which isn't something you can develop.

 

 

I respectfully disagree with this statement. There are many programs out there that successfully teach absolute/perfect pitch to young children. I don't expect you to read through or look at every single link below, but the idea that perfect pitch cannot be taught to young children is misinformation. It simply does not help a child's ears to play on an out of tune piano and it is detrimental to them acquiring perfect pitch. I am not trying to hijack this thread, but it is absolutely possible to develop a child's ears in this manner.

 

1. The Taneda Method out of Germany (marketed as We Hear and Play in the US) has a near 100% success rating their school. A friend of mine recently called over and spoke with their Director personally. This school has been open for several decades now.

 

2. The Eguchi Method is one of the most highly regarded pitch training programs in the world. They are based out of Japan and have successfully trained thousands of children with the flag/chord method. http://www.washingto...009072602370���

http://www.ichionkai...rfect pitch.htm

 

3. Shichida Academy schools in Japan, New York, and Hawaii teach it as part of their right brain education enrichment program. Here's a youtube video of one of their music classes. http://youtu.be/UZtgDrctX-0?t=3m12s

 

4. Brainin Method out of Russia

 

5. I taught my kids primarily with BrillKids Little Musician. It took them between 8 months and a year to recognize all of the white keys, my daughter has even correctly identified the pitch of a car alarm. My kids did not have absolute pitch when we started. I know this because I would play M & M testing games every other month to see how their ears were developing (they were rewarded simply for trying, not just for correct answers). But for many months, they didn't get a single note correct.

 

6. Right Brain Kids teaches it with DVD's and the most reputable brand of tuning forks on the market. A mom that I spoke with said it took her daughter just a couple months to develop her ears with tuning forks. http://store.rightbr...mart/Itemid,26/

 

7. Musician Bonnie Tevelde in California is unveiling a new program shortly that will be available for at-home learning (video based), but she has already successfully taught Perfect pitch to over 250 kids through her school, including at some preschools, I believe. The TAP program will not be available to the public though until her patents are finalized, which should be any time now. http://www.thetapmethod.com/

 

8. Professor Diane Deutsch at the University of California stresses the importance of starting early to be successful. She even says that just putting fun stickers on the keys can be enough for a very small child to pick it up. http://www.wired.com...-perfect-pitch/

 

9. Some parents are also reporting success with Soft Mozart piano software

 

Two more supporting articles can be found here: http://www.apa.org/m...eb05/pitch.aspx & http://www.perfectpitch.com/suzuki.htm . The first article addresses two very important facts- 1) all babies have and use absolute pitch during early speech development and 2) Absolute Pitch is far more common in Asian countries that have tonal languages. It is inherently trained as part of learning the rise and fall of spoken words. Keep an open mind! I urge interested parents to slap some stickers on a properly tuned instrument and give it a shot!

[hollyh]

Ok, LAST question now... :)

 

So, suppose my only two options were

1. Get this keyboard for free (from my charter school) to use and start lessons right away.

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-WK-225-76-Key-Sensitive-Keyboard/dp/B0059ZVQ22/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1KXSU67S9E18L&coliid=I2PTB3VOFLX137

 

2. Don't do any piano for at least another year while I save up to buy what I really want.

 

What would you do? Is it really that big of a deal to transition from keyboard to piano or dp. Is it worth waiting the year+ when she could be learning?

[Arcadia]

I would take the keyboard. I learn from a keyboard when I was four while my parent saved to buy me a Yamaha upright. There is no harm done in using a full size touch sensitive keyboard as a starter instrument.

[lllll]

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[TeachingMyTwo]

Yep, I agree. I would absolutely start with the keyboard. It's what we did while I was waiting for the "perfect" used dp to show up on Craigslist. Dh got tired of waiting and bought a keyboard in the meantime. It was a great first step until we could get something else, it was fine for starting out. So they spent all that time learning, versus doing nothing until I could find what I wanted. My only regret was not buying *something* sooner! I didn't look at the model you are looking at, but I wanted to say that I started my kids young while they were still building finger strength (not yet writing fluently, etc) so the difference in the weighted keys was probably exaggerated in our situation on account of their age. With an older child, it would be less of a difference I think.