Granny_Weatherwax Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 After reading about how students apply to reach schools, middle schools and safety schools, I am wondering a few things. 1) If your reach school sends you info in the mail, so initial contact was from them, and you apply, is that considered a reach? 2) Is reach simply based on numbers of applicants and percent accepted? 3) Is it also based on tuition and amount of merit/financial aid received? DS received a letter from a prestigious, highly selective university; what we would have considered a shoot-for-the-stars school. This letter was quite different from the other ones he has received. It was more like 'hey, we have noticed you and think you would be a good fit here. Please contact our admissions department so we can discuss your plans." A one sheet letter on letterhead in a business envelope. It definitely stood out to DS. No hype, no silly mathematics equations, no postcards to return for planning notebooks or collegiate guides. We spent some time researching the school and, even though it doesn't have Marine Bio, DS is interested. I think he might be a little star struck and I don't him to get his hopes up but the simpleness of this letter makes me wonder if he has a chance. That is, if he continues to perform at the same level throughout the rest of high school. Or is this how the top schools recruit? Did they send out 35,000 similar letters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoggirl Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I would say a reach is one where the student is not in the top 25% of the published stats for accepted students OR a school with a notoriously low admission rate. Not sure exactly what number that would be and would be interested to know what others think. Looking at different set of numbers, I would say most schools in the top 25 of US News rankings would be reaches for everyone. But what do I know? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 I edited the initial post to include a bit more info. and why these questions came up. Karen - did MIT solicit your son, send him anything in the mail? Or did he contact them and initiate the process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 A reach school is one where the student doers not think his chances are good, based on his stats and the school's stats. One can have an academic reach school, an athletic reach school and a financial reach school. Or they could all be the same school. Or is this how the top schools recruit? Did they send out 35,000 similar letters? Yes, and at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoggirl Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Receiving mailings from tippy top schools means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Aw man, Hoggirl, you and Great White are peeing in my Wheaties, raining on my parade.... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Karen, MIT is an amazing school; every day is intense and intimidating and exhilarating. It is somewhat mind-boggling to be surrounded by and interact with that many brilliant people - both faculty and students. I was a teaching assistant for a professor that Time magazine recently names one of the 100 most influential people in the world. I had classes down the hall from Noam Chomsky's office. I'm not sure it was a reach school for me, but obviously the low acceptance rate makes it gamble no matter what. I am very glad, though, that I took my chances and applied. Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 The top schools are very cognizant of how USNWR does its rankings, and one of the ways they get 30,000+ students to apply for a couple thousand slots is by sending out these kinds of letters. If the school accepts a very low percentage of applicants, it's a "reach" even for the most qualified applicants (unless you're talking an Evan O'Dorney). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisabees Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 1) If your reach school sends you info in the mail, so initial contact was from them, and you apply, is that considered a reach? Sorry - I agree with the others. That is considered advertising, not soliciting. Remember, schools make lots of money on just the applications. 2) Is reach simply based on numbers of applicants and percent accepted? I agree with the poster who said that those top 25-30 schools can be a reach for anyone, even if your stats are in the top 25%. Most of those schools are looking for something other than stats, as many of the applicants have the stats. DS had one super, super reach school (only accepted 8%) and a few reaches (higher acceptance rates, but ds not solidly in top 25% of stats). It's tricky, isn't it? 3) Is it also based on tuition and amount of merit/financial aid received? Well, we definitely needed merit aid to attend any of the schools to which ds applied. We were disappointed by a couple of schools that didn't offer merit. And we were ecstatic when he received good merit from more reachy schools. Again, schools are looking for more than stats, so "reaches" are a combination of known/unknown factors. You just never know what admissions is looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 For us, a reach school is one that there is doubt about the child getting in (grades/test scores or acceptance rates) and/or doubt about whether or not we could afford it (enough scholarship money to make it even doable.) Whether or not the school sent us information is irrelevant to whether or not it is a reach school. Ds is getting mail from schools that are far-reach schools (and he is no slouch - decent test scores.) I figure he is getting mail because he took the PSAT, not because any of these schools give a hoot about him. We have heard from MIT, University of Chicago and Cornell. Ds16 is in no way one of their top candidates on paper. We just toss those in the circular file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Oh well, I guess we will enjoy the process. I am excited to learn about the different schools and see the approaches they use to entice students to apply or ask for more info. I guess I am a little overzealous since DS shows such promise. I don't want to mess things up for him by turning a blind eye (or an ignorant one) and having him miss out on an exceptional opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 (unless you're talking an Evan O'Dorney). How does one find out about those opportunities? No one from our area does anything like this and yet there are talented kids who would do well in some of those competitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen in VA Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Random thoughts on colleges and acceptances -- 1) At the top schools, getting 800's and 5's on every test is still not enough to guarantee an acceptance -- there really are THAT many kids who have great test scores and look good on paper! 2) At the tippy-top schools, acceptance or rejection may depend on whether you play the trombone, if you started a madrigals group at your high school, or some other oddball thing. The college is looking for specific skills that will complement the student body as a whole. Maybe they are looking for a top swimmer, or maybe they have enough oboes and do NOT want another oboe-player! 3) The best thing IMHO that you can do for your son is to encourage him to develop his gifts and talents, whether they be sewing 18th C clothing or building kites or playing the harpsichord. You never know where those skills and talents will lead, but even if they do NOT lead to an acceptance letter from a prestigious college, your kid will then have those developed skills and talents for the rest of his life. (My son founded his own company the moment he turned 18 and never took a fourth year of a foreign language. Funny thing -- no one in admissions ever asked about his "missing" year of foreign language, but they were certainly impressed by his entrepreuneurship!) In other words, punch the buttons, take the "necessary" tests, take the outside classes for outside verification, but focus on encouraging your child to develop the skills and talents that make him tick and make him special. Some of those skills will be in the academic arena, but many won't. Developing those EC's will give your kid confidence, make him stand out, and help him to become the kid he was meant to be. My budding music major is getting emails from Cal Tech. (Hah!) Don't take those mailings seriously at all -- they are just an advertising ploy and a distraction. For a depressing but fascinating read on this subject, look at What Colleges Don't Tell You by Wissner-Gross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in Richmond Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 How does one find out about those opportunities? No one from our area does anything like this and yet there are talented kids who would do well in some of those competitions. The American Mathematics Competitions (AMC) welcome everyone, including homeschoolers. Your student can take the exams as an individual if he's not part of a group. The AMC 8, 10 and 12 levels are open to any student in the designated grade level or below. High scorers advance through AIME and USAMO invitational levels. From there, top kids are chosen for a summer training camp, where a team is selected to represent the USA in the International Math Olympiad (where Evan O'Dorney earned a medal). Lots of us here have kids who've participated. Some old threads: AMC 8 Exam AMC--As a Homeschooler at a School Math Olympiad Anyone's Kids Take the AMC10 or 12 Today? And from the AMC folks: AMC 10/12 Homeschool Administration Rules Lots of info & practice exams are also available at the AoPS website. I know that the Intel Science Talent search & the Scripps spelling bee also welcome homeschoolers. Maybe someone whose kids have done those competitions will chime in. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisabees Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 3) The best thing IMHO that you can do for your son is to encourage him to develop his gifts and talents, whether they be sewing 18th C clothing or building kites or playing the harpsichord. You never know where those skills and talents will lead, but even if they do NOT lead to an acceptance letter from a prestigious college, your kid will then have those developed skills and talents for the rest of his life. OP, if your son is only 15, then the above advice is perfect. Now is the time to set your ds apart from the others who also have wonderful grades and scores. As long as you follow your ds's passions, it could be a most rewarding experience. And just to clarify, unless you're an athlete, colleges do not typically "recruit" or "solicit" specific students. Especially the top tier schools. At least not in our experience. Schools want a record number of qualified applicants each year, so "recruiters" travel the country and send letters and make calls if you've visited. It is much more money and ratings motivated than we'd like to think. Once a student has been accepted, however, the contact may increase, because they want your child to choose their school over a competitor. If I am wrong, feel free to let me know! As a side note, ds did have email exchanges with an admissions director of his top choice school after he applied, but before he was accepted. The admissions person wanted to know more about ds's projects and how they might fit in with the college. Still, we tried not to read too much into it. Thankfully, he was accepted and is very happily attending as a freshman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 The top schools are very cognizant of how USNWR does its rankings, and one of the ways they get 30,000+ students to apply for a couple thousand slots is by sending out these kinds of letters. If the school accepts a very low percentage of applicants, it's a "reach" even for the most qualified applicants (unless you're talking an Evan O'Dorney). :iagree: Further, school bond ratings which govern the amount of interest they pay on loans is also judged partly on their exclusivity. So don't buy anything at face value, but if the letter gives specific contact information, I 'd certainly encourage your son to try following it. What you find will probably tell you whether the letter is real or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttichen Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I know that the Intel Science Talent search & the Scripps spelling bee also welcome homeschoolers. Maybe someone whose kids have done those competitions will chime in. :001_smile: Yes! Having a national award that schools recognize is a great way to make your student stand out. My son who is curently a senior got second place in computer science at the Intel ISEF and was a Siemens finalist. He was accepted at Harvard early action. (He also had 2380 on the SAT, three 800s on subject tests, and 12 5s on APs.) We haven't tried the spelling bee, but my older kids did things like National History Day, Young Epidemology Scholars, and the USAMO and were admitted to top schools. Other kids do things like great volunteer activities or entrepreneurship. You just need something to make you stand out from the many kids with incredible scores. For us a "reach" school was a top ivy -- a school with such a low admissions rate that it's not a sure thing for anyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Or is this how the top schools recruit? Did they send out 35,000 similar letters? This can be how top schools "recruit..." They are generally form letters, but they definitely sound different, don't they? Any student getting a top score on the PSAT/PLAN, ACT or SAT will get them. My middle son got at least one mailing from all of the top schools and multiple mailings from many of them. I had to caution him not to think more highly of himself than he ought as they really are ego-boosts, but those top schools with low acceptance rates NEED to make many think they are "wanted" to keep those apps coming in and keep their selectivity. They quite probably send out more than 35,000 of them. My advice to students is to look at the mailings as they come in to see if there are schools that interest them, but then critically look at the schools for fit just as you would any other school. If my guy wanted to major in Marine Bio and the school didn't offer that, it'd be scratched from the list. I agree with the others as to what constitutes a reach school - generally any school where one is not in the top 25% of stats, schools where the acceptance rate is < 20%, or schools that may not be financially affordable even if one is accepted. There is no "need" to apply to reach schools if none fit (esp academic reaches). One should always have at least one (preferably two) safety schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 How does one find out about those opportunities? No one from our area does anything like this and yet there are talented kids who would do well in some of those competitions. Get yourself a copy of What High Schools Don't Tell You, and also Academic Competitions for Gifted Students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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