bluedarling Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Crossposting in Learning Challenges and Accelerated Learners....guessing he's 2e! I have test results on Child #2!! Summary....GAI of 143 (I calculated off his scores...I thought she had calculated it, but its not in the report.) But achievement is average (with exception of above average math). Isn't average achievement underachievement? (At least the achievement scores explain why I'm not identifying him as gifted!! Achievement matches what I am seeing, with the exception he doesn't write as well for me.) Pseudoword decoding was the 37%-ile, again within norms. Does this mean he needs more phonics work? Most significant scores were Block Design 19, Similarites 18, Coding 5. She retested the coding with another measure that didn't require writing (just checkboxes), and the score climbed to a 9. Doesn't this signify that writing is an issue? Processing composite is 94 (at the 34th %-ile), which is poor in comparison to 99th %-ile verbal comprehension and perceptual reasoning. Overall, she felt his scores were "typical" of quirky gifted kids, though said our concerns about attention issues were clinically significant and should be reported to our doctor. They said if I placed him in school, they would definitely tell his teachers to watch for trouble and report immediately (not wait.) They believe me that there are issues, but the tests do not confirm it. Ugh. Anything I should make note of? I also had a really good conversation with a local friend who knows my son....and got good feedback on his Aspie symptoms. I scored him at the lower end of "Likely", which I was told was typical of gifted kids...but my friend really sees him as such (she has an Aspie herself) because of his lack of social skills. She didn't see Child #1 as such, yet I scored him at the upper end of "Likely"...and when we discussed symptoms we began to see a lot of similarities. He hides his issues better, I guess. He knows he's different, and compensates (acts shy)....where child #2 is more oblivious (and lets it all hang out)! Funny how two boys who are as different as night and day could have similar test scores and diagnosis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 If there's a gap between WISC scores and achievement, with achievement being lower, that's the hallmark sign of a learning disability. Since you mentioned the writing issues, has his visual-motor integration been checked? Has he been evaluated for dyspraxia? These can bring down scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 We are in a similar situation with a new set of scores, with the coding down at 5. Yes, the handwriting is a really significant issue. For my ds9, his hand is so much slower than his brain. Our psych sent us (1) to the covd optometrist to rule out developmental vision issues (check! that went very well! no vision problems - I am so relieved that his vision is off the charts good. What was really unbelievable - his handwriting was perfect and at an 8th grade level for neatness and speed - maybe because it involved copying a paragraph rather than his own thoughts?). (2) we are supposed to get a full OT eval due to that and the rest of his issues, which I am still on the fence about because I do not think they will diagnose SPD - he seems too "normal" and I hesitate to spend the money for nothing - but I may do it anyway. The OT at the covd noted minor bilateral issues. Plus, if the OT place comes up with a diagnosis, the psych will write a 504 plan now. Otherwise, we re-test again in a few years to see if his processing speed scores fall below the threshold for SAT accommodations down the road. His scores are close enough it is well worth keeping track. (3) the psych recommended another OT who has a special typing program for "kids like this" who often find normal typing difficult. At this point, being taught to type efficiently (even if that's not in the usual way) and being allowed to type, are the solutions, so I am told, and thank goodness for the state of technology. We will do a handful of sessions at the covd for a few minor things (they happen to have quite a broad practice, including an ot, etc), including a few brain-gym-ish things for the bilateral issues. The OT place is so booked up that we can't even get an eval for another six weeks anyway, so we'll see what we can do in the meantime. Eta, math is where I am afraid the handwriting issue will really bite in the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 If there's a gap between WISC scores and achievement, with achievement being lower, that's the hallmark sign of a learning disability. Since you mentioned the writing issues, has his visual-motor integration been checked? Has he been evaluated for dyspraxia? These can bring down scores. He had vision therapy a couple years ago...his visual-motor should be good. He had an OT eval many years ago, and they didn't dx dyspraxia, but I wouldn't be surprised if he were just by looking up the symptoms. Anyone have any resources that show average achievement as LD in a gifted child?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Eta, math is where I am afraid the handwriting issue will really bite in the long term. Doesn't AoPS have a math program you can type and work everything into? We're not there yet, but that is part of my plans for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Doesn't AoPS have a math program you can type and work everything into? We're not there yet, but that is part of my plans for the future. They have links and directions for using LaTeX. We were just discussing it today here over on the other board. I've also seen mention of Word having something similar. I haven't gotten very far in thinking about this yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 He had vision therapy a couple years ago...his visual-motor should be good. He had an OT eval many years ago, and they didn't dx dyspraxia, but I wouldn't be surprised if he were just by looking up the symptoms. Anyone have any resources that show average achievement as LD in a gifted child?? We also had a visual processing evaluation by an COVD fellow who said there was no visual processing problem, but he didn't check visual-motor integration. He did pick up something neurological, not visual, in the testing, but he said the therapy he could offer wouldn't help. I did not know until recently what dyspraxia really was. I have one dd who has not been tested except for OT, and the OT never diagnosed or even mentioned dyspraxia. She did diagnose muscle weakness, because therapy for that diagnosis is covered by insurance. Now that I have learned what dyspraxia is because of another dc, I honestly can't believe the OT never brought it up with the first one. Like you, just by looking it up, it seems like it would explain a lot. I guess I always thought of dyspraxia in more of a gross motor, not fine motor, sense. Fine motor dyspraxia is a virtually hidden disability. It can go hand in hand with sensory processing disorder, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 And a kid with SPD can look a lot like a spectrum kid. Have you had your child evaluated for dyslexia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 My oldest has always had sensory issues, but this child is if anything...under sensitive (oblivious to hot/cold, smells & such). I see it as an attention issue...he doesn't pay attention to his body's signals, but I'm open to other interpretations. He has not been formally diagnosed for dyslexia, but passed a screener when his older brother was sent to a school for dyslexics in 3rd grade. He was 1st grade then...and reading close to on-level (though he had speech articulation issues at that time...dismissed shortly after that. The screener is probably in a box somewhere...wish I could find it. I recall the guy saying that it was unusual to have 3 kids in the same family with these issues...grouping my two with speech/language issues with my dyslexic oldest. Apparently he expected issues, even though the screener didn't catch anything.) He reads well, so I haven't felt a need to evaluate him. We have covered phonics, so I don't know why he can't read non-words. I'm actually surprised by this! I was going to point out that his reading comprehension is fine (66th %-ile), but then I guess fine, and commensurate with ability are two different things! He may be working unusually hard at the reading....I don't know. I assign reading, now, not listen to him read. I do know he is going to resist phonics work. (And I agree...its boring with a 13yo.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 My oldest has always had sensory issues, but this child is if anything...under sensitive (oblivious to hot/cold, smells & such). I see it as an attention issue...he doesn't pay attention to his body's signals, but I'm open to other interpretations. FWIW, sensory under-responsivity is a sub-type of SPD too. Some people are even over-responsive in some ways and under-responsive in others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Dyslexia runs in families. With that kind of VIQ it is totally possible to have no reading problems at all. My son was reading Lord of the Rings in the second grade. "Luckily" he couldn't spell anything so it wasn't too hard for me to catch his dyslexia. Stealth dyslexia usually shows up as problems with writing and spelling. Reading is usually fine (more or less). Not being able to read nonsense words is very typical of dyslexics. Also you have big discrepencies in subtests and a pretty slow processing speed. Not that I am in any way an expert. It just looks familiar. Is writing a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 FWIW, sensory under-responsivity is a sub-type of SPD too. Some people are even over-responsive in some ways and under-responsive in others. Yes, and you can have both simultaneously (sensory craving, sensory avoiding) depending on the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mukmuk Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 "He reads well, so I haven't felt a need to evaluate him. We have covered phonics, so I don't know why he can't read non-words. " This is my son. It blew me away when I was told he was stealth dyslexic because he reads at college level. Anyway, these kids read by pattern or shape of words. Spelling should be poor as well as they don't rely on phonics. In my son's case, he actually spells well, but only because he remembers what the word looks like. You mention that your child's reading comprehension is in the 66th percentile while verbal comprehension is in the +99th percentile. This points again to a reading issue, because he can clearly understand so much better if its not in written words. My son as well, except he understands by inference. I'm trying to change this because, for short passages where there isn't a lot of context with which to base his inference, he can be dramatically wrong. Like in math questions. I constantly remind him to visualize each word (he needs a lot of effort to focus on a word at a time), and he's improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Dyslexia runs in families. With that kind of VIQ it is totally possible to have no reading problems at all. My son was reading Lord of the Rings in the second grade. "Luckily" he couldn't spell anything so it wasn't too hard for me to catch his dyslexia. Stealth dyslexia usually shows up as problems with writing and spelling. Reading is usually fine (more or less). Not being able to read nonsense words is very typical of dyslexics. Also you have big discrepencies in subtests and a pretty slow processing speed. Not that I am in any way an expert. It just looks familiar. Is writing a problem? He struggled to read in K, but then took off once he had the basics down. His spelling followed a similar pattern (but much later...possibly after vision therapy 2-3 years ago.) He's now an excellent speller on tests, but not so much in writing (which I attributed to lack of attention....his writing also tends to be devoid of capitalization and punctuation.) However, he scored well on his writing test during testing! (Another mystery.) Writing is an issue....I know its an issue. Take his latest science lab report....what he wrote was "heavyer objects can handle air resistance better than lighter objects. though gravity accleterates all objects equally, some object have more of a accleration upwards from air resistancthan others." OK...we know he understood the concepts, but he didn't really hit on the point of the experiment in the writeup. We had him redo it. He's an ace speller, yet had some misspellings. No capitalization. Incorrect punctuation. This is normal for him. His second attempt was "in the first part of the expiriment, air resistance alterd the true results, in the second part however, air resistance was removed from the expiriment and both objects fell at the same speed." Better on communicating the point of the experiment, but the mechanics did not improve. I'm not sure "dyslexic" is the correct term for his issues. But yes, writing is a struggle....less of a struggle than his brother, but still a struggle. He struggles to write on a line, and prefers unlined paper (but then its all over the place!) His handwriting is immature, but readable. He definitely prefers to type, but it really doesn't improve much...even using MS Word, he still manages to turn in papers devoid of capitalization and punctuation. This is what prompted the evaluation....I was complaining of these on here, and you all told me to get him evaluated! But...writing was the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1BEXokDGhc The Eide's have helped me so much. Are you familiar with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1BEXokDGhc The Eide's have helped me so much. Are you familiar with them? Do you have a link to this DVD? The clip says it is available on Amazon, but I can't find it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Do you have a link to this DVD? The clip says it is available on Amazon, but I can't find it at all. Sorry, no. I only know about the little free excerpts on youtube and of course their other online stuff. (and the books) I think most of the info from the videos is available in the books. (Dyslexic Advantage, Mislabled Child). http://dyslexicadvantage.com/ http://eideneurolear...g.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Do you have a link to this DVD? The clip says it is available on Amazon, but I can't find it at all. I was able to find it...here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 I remember reading The Mislabeled Child when my oldest was around 7. I wasn't really sure what to make of it at the time, as I couldn't tell what applied to my son and what didn't. Probably wouldn't hurt to re-read it, now. While I am in the greater Seattle area, an evaluation with them will NEVER happen at $5000! Ugh. I got the Dyslexic Advantage from the library a month or two ago (before testing) but only skimmed it...its hard to care about the advantages of a dyslexic brain when you aren't sure your kid has one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I was able to find it...here Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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