If an employer says...

[BarbecueMom]

"You aren't a good match with this workplace," or something similar and fires you, what would you take that to mean? Not a good fit skills-wise? Not fitting in socially with the rest of the office? A bit of both? Something else entirely?

 

In hearing the employee's side of how things were going a week or so ago, I saw this happening. I can figure out what the employer was thinking, even with the biased version of the story. If asked for advice (and I know I will be), I'm not sure how to explain what I'm "reading between the lines" without it coming out... blunt. Former employee will get defensive, of course, maybe irrational, but obviously doesn't want this to happen again.

 

I just know I'm going to end up sticking a foot in my mouth one way or another.

[Cassy]

I'd take it to mean that there was probably a personality clash of some sort with either one or a number of their colleagues. I'd also be wary of blaming the employee, as I have seen situations where perfectly nice, normal people have been made a scapegoat in what might be considered a dysfunctional workplace.

[Guest inoubliable]

Live in a right-to-work state?

 

That's a line used by employers here to fire people without getting in trouble or having to pay unemployment. You could say that's just something employers say and it's not really a reflection on the employee. If you're not comfortable pointing out short comings, I mean.

[AnIslandGirl]

I'd take it to mean, "There are other people that could do this job, and we all here would be happier with anyone but you!"

But, "You aren't a good match with this workplace" sounds much kinder!

[kalanamak]

It's pretty non specific and kind of strikes me as a cop out.

 

Or an attempt to not have one's car keyed (or the place sprayed with bullets). Or sued. Even if there are no reasonable grounds, if you anger someone they can badger you with complaints, cranked-out lawsuits*, etc. Really, if you think the employee will just take it wrong and not improve him/herself, I'd cop out, too.

 

* my ex was sued for a car accident, and the paperwork was obviously from another accident with wite-out over the names, and the description of the accident clearly different from the one he was in.

[bettyandbob]

In some right to work states, employers can fire for any reason they want, just as long as the reason doesn't fall under discriminatory ("you're too old", "we don't think people of a certain race attract good clients" etc). Perhaps the employer just wants to thin the payroll and he wants to pick who to keep rather than go by seniority. Perhaps, he wants to make room for his nephew who graduated from college last year and hasn't landed a job yet. Perhaps he's decided that the person to be fired looks like his soon to be ex MIL. Sounds lame, but legally he may not be required to give you the real reason.

[BarbecueMom]

I'd take it to mean, "There are other people that could do this job, and we all here would be happier with anyone but you!"

But, "You aren't a good match with this workplace" sounds much kinder!

 

This is sort of what I'm picturing. I think it was a problem of mismatched personality and workplace types, combined with struggling a bit to keep up skills-wise. Neither alone an ideal reason for firing, but together... I can see the problem.

 

I know it was not an age thing. All the employees in the department are the same age, some with obvious health problems (in case insurance costs was an issue). They were also having trouble hiring enough people and keeping them from quitting, so now they're quite short-handed.

 

Wash hands of it and move on, I say. Something's got to be better around the corner. Not that the thought will make the person feel much better today.

 

ETA: No, we are not in a right-to-work state. Office itself wasn't union, but the rest of the company likely is.

[SKL]

Considering that I was a social outcast (at work) over things like wearing white socks with my jeans on weekends, it's hard to give an objective answer. I've been a performance manager for people who were really a square peg in a round hole, though. It's always hard to counsel someone who needs to realize he needs a different kind of job.

 

If I were in that position with a friend or my adult child, sibling, etc., I might do it as a question-answer session. Did you feel there was a culture or social cues you didn't understand? Etc. I would try to get the person to come to the conclusion that he's better off not working there and should look for a job where those cultural elements don't exist or aren't important. Or if he decides he has areas for improvement and really wants to try, there are probably some targeted training opportunities etc.

 

I would stress that it isn't at all unusual for a person to be counseled out, or pressured out, of a particular work environment. Assuming there was no unlawful or really obnoxious behavior, it doesn't say anything about the value or aptitude of the individual. It just means that he hasn't yet found the job he's meant to have. Some of the world's most successful people were fired early in their career.

[Orthodox6]

Agreeing with observations already made about "right-to-work" states. This misnomer really should be changed to "right-to-fire" states. I hate it. Never have suffered from it, but I sincerely disagree with the concept.

 

It is up to the employee to wrest specific details from the supervisor. He or she needs to know the truth of what reason is being alleged because that reason is going to be cited when the employer is called by future possible employers for that person.

[kalanamak]

Yeah I guess. I'd just rather know. I would take it to mean simply "I don't like you." Which would stink because I am who I am. If the person had been working there awhile did it really take so long for the company to figure out they simply didn't like someone?

 

An IL of an IL will serve as an example. This woman is ball of energy and lots of fun for the short run. As the months go on she becomes hyper-critical. Like a screw tightening down.

 

The last 10 years of her working career she had a PERfect job. She worked as an efficiency officer who flew into a city, worked with the local location for a week, and then flew out. She came back ever year or so. She was loved for her flair, energy, encouraging attitude, etc.

 

So, while not a bad person, she really became "not a good fit" if she stayed with one team. She needed the go-go-go of travel, the change of faces, and the new situation every week to blossom. Too bad there were 25 years of bouncing around and getting fired leading up to it.

[Dandelion]

Sounds like a losing proposition to give this person advice in this situation. Even if you have a pretty good idea of what the employer may have been thinking, in reality there could probably be other explanations.

 

I would just listen to the person, help them feel heard, and offer suggestions/help with their upcoming job search if they plan to look for work. If you think this individual has a "career-limiting" issue that led to their termination (e.g. doesn't work well on a team), you might ask a few questions to help the person come to this insight on their own (e.g. "What issues did you encounter with your work team that might have contributed to your employer's impression that you weren't a good match?").

 

This person is probably feeling raw and likely won't take any criticism (whether real or perceived) well right now. But a few good open-ended questions, asked in a gentle and caring manner, may help them gain clarity on what led to the termination. And if they feel like they gained the insight themselves (rather than from you), they'll be much more open to acknowledging any issues that might exist.

[Miss Mousie]

If you can avoid the discussion, that's the route I'd take. It sounds like you are not a co-worker in the same place, so anything you say is speculative. Even if you *are* a co-worker in the same place, if you are not the one who made the decision, it is still speculative.

 

If it is unavoidable, then I'd go with Dandelion's advice.

[Mrs Mungo]

I would think personality conflict. Although, it's hard to say these days. I know someone who got that speech after he repeatedly refused to go to the strip club with his boss and co-workers after work.

[BarbecueMom]

If you can avoid the discussion, that's the route I'd take. It sounds like you are not a co-worker in the same place, so anything you say is speculative. Even if you *are* a co-worker in the same place, if you are not the one who made the decision, it is still speculative.

 

If it is unavoidable, then I'd go with Dandelion's advice.

 

 

No, I'm not a coworker. I just, um, lived with this person for twenty of my twenty-nine years.

 

I think I'll just give it a few days to settle, then go with Dandelion's approach. Seems like the most fruitful way to talk about it.

 

I would think personality conflict. Although, it's hard to say these days. I know someone who got that speech after he repeatedly refused to go to the strip club with his boss and co-workers after work.

 

 

Eeek! Well I know this wasn't the problem! :ack2: Though if it was, I would have been recommending to run long before it got to this point.

[Anne in CA]

Well, I would make sure there was not some discrimination before I agreed with the personality clash reason, although I think that it probably right. I have a friend who had three male coworkers complain about her to human resources about the dumbest stuff, and it is clear they don't want to work with women. They have a pattern of complaining about women, but they don't get called out on it, because it is in the mining industry.

[BarbecueMom]

Well, I would make sure there was not some discrimination before I agreed with the personality clash reason, although I think that it probably right. I have a friend who had three male coworkers complain about her to human resources about the dumbest stuff, and it is clear they don't want to work with women. They have a pattern of complaining about women, but they don't get called out on it, because it is in the mining industry.

 

The office was all women. But even though you can encounter sexism and discrimination in mixed-gender environments, an all-female office can be very tough socially. I think this person has been VERY lucky in previous jobs to make great friends each time and had expectations for the social environment set unrealistically high. I always went into a work situation expecting cattiness and backstabbing, making friends slowly and carefully, but that kind of environment doesn't really match this person's personality.