UrbanSue Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I have a workbook-hating ds8 who is very strong, linguistically. He reads at a high level, speaks like he reads at a very high level but isn't a super-confident speller. He also is pretty allergic to writing at all. We do LOF, for example, and he will always, always write "eleven ducks" by writing the number "11" and then drawing (quickly) a very charming sketch of a duck. WRTR has really worked well for him. He really likes the "pull it apart and analyze myself" method for spelling rather than the fill in the blanks approach. I also think he is a very whole-to-parts learner. We are doing Cambridge Latin (completely orally with no writing yet) and he is eating it up and plowing through it (it is a "reading" program, for those of you unfamiliar). He has thus far tolerated FLL. We did levels 1 and 2 last year at double-speed. Now with level 3 he'll do it but I abbreviate the lessons to minimize writing. He's getting the information, for the most part, but I feel like the approach is more belabored than he needs. I guess what I'd like is a concise guide for me so I know I'm covering the major topics. I had terrible grammar instruction in school but have naturally good grammar. So I'm bad at explaining "rules" and I never learned diagramming. I'd like a guide to diagramming and the rules listed for me and then maybe an outline of how to present the information. I guess I'm thinking something like the WRTR manual for Spalding but for grammar. I don't mind a learning curve for me, but I don't want a lot of fussy set up. I want something we can do with a pencil and paper. I don't think I want to leave off doing grammar altogether. What else might work for a whole-to-parts workbook-hating, writing-phobic, linguistically-advanced learner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquility7 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 My 6yo DS sounds *much* like yours! I **highly** recommend MCT for grammar!! It is all read-aloud and discussion for us (other than PI, which I commented on below). Since you are already through FLL1 and 2, you *might* want to start with the Grammar Town level... there won't be anything new in Grammar Island, but he might like the story (mine did), and I love how MCT presents the relationships between parts of speech, sentence, etc. This is what we have done: - FLL1 and 2 - MCT Grammar Island and start Practice Island (4 level sentence analysis) while doing FLL 2 (PI can be done orally, with you writing his answers) - MCT Sentence Island and Music of the Hemispheres while doing FLL 3 (you could skip FLL 3 if you wanted) - Continue with Practice Island, but now after the 4-level analysis, also diagram the sentence. You could skip FLL 3 and just get Rex Barks to teach the basics of diagramming (it is quick and easy to get started and learn the basic concepts). - Then continue with Practice Island, moving on to MCT Town level when DS is ready. My DS *loves* doing the sentence analysis and especially the diagramming. I don't require him to write much while diagramming; basically just draw the diagram lines and either put the first letter of the proper word on each line or just draw lines from the words in the sentence to where they belong on the lines. Sometimes he just draws the diagram lines and then tells me orally where the words go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquility7 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Btw, I also love whole-to-parts and think MCT does this by presenting a sentence for analysis. All of the "parts" are reviewed while you analyze the "whole" (the sentence itself) - and the review is a fun puzzle for my DS because every sentence is a little different. I also sometimes make up silly sentences (using the PI sentences as patterns) that make him laugh just to make it more fun. Oh, and lastly - we also have carried over our MCT 4-level sentence analysis and diagramming into our Latin studies. Like yours, my DS also loves to read Latin (we use a couple of programs; Lingua Latina is one of them, and it is also a reading program - in fact, I have Cambridge on my list to investigate!) and so I just find a good sentence in our Latin reading that I know he could analyze and diagram, and we do it together. It is a little different since it is in Latin, but it is a *great* exercise (for both of us!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Maybe GrammarWorks, by Jay Patterson? It has the same methodology as Spalding (dictating, analyzing words, keeping notebooks). Mr. Patterson also wrote a book that's supposed to help you teach Spalding, but he made some changes to the method that I'm not comfortable with...I forget what, lol. But GrammarWorks isn't too bad; there is an error in the pronoun section, though, where he uses "they" with "someone" ("someone" is singular, and is a "he" or a "she," not a "they"). Otherwise, it's not too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanSue Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Btw, I also love whole-to-parts and think MCT does this by presenting a sentence for analysis. All of the "parts" are reviewed while you analyze the "whole" (the sentence itself) - and the review is a fun puzzle for my DS because every sentence is a little different. I also sometimes make up silly sentences (using the PI sentences as patterns) that make him laugh just to make it more fun. Oh, and lastly - we also have carried over our MCT 4-level sentence analysis and diagramming into our Latin studies. Like yours, my DS also loves to read Latin (we use a couple of programs; Lingua Latina is one of them, and it is also a reading program - in fact, I have Cambridge on my list to investigate!) and so I just find a good sentence in our Latin reading that I know he could analyze and diagram, and we do it together. It is a little different since it is in Latin, but it is a *great* exercise (for both of us!). I'm reading through a zillion MCT threads right now. I don't know . . . I don't love what I see in the samples. It's expensive. But I'll keep looking into it--thanks for your thoughts on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanSue Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Maybe GrammarWorks, by Jay Patterson? It has the same methodology as Spalding (dictating, analyzing words, keeping notebooks). Mr. Patterson also wrote a book that's supposed to help you teach Spalding, but he made some changes to the method that I'm not comfortable with...I forget what, lol. But GrammarWorks isn't too bad; there is an error in the pronoun section, though, where he uses "they" with "someone" ("someone" is singular, and is a "he" or a "she," not a "they"). Otherwise, it's not too bad. Well, so far I like what I see! The all-in-one non-consumable manual has appeal for me. Do you know if there is anywhere online to see samples of it? I think my ds responds well to the idea of creating his own work. After all the struggles we had with workbook-based spelling I am still shocked every time he speaks excitedly and reverently about his spelling notebook. But, yeah, he also likes the snuggly narrative-based stuff. So I'm looking at MCT, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I have not seen it anywhere on-line. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yperalta Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I use WRTR as well. For grammar this year I'm using Voyages in English a two part text book that consist of writing chapters in the front of the book and grammar lessons in the back section. The grammar section is thorough with nine sections teaching nouns, pronouns, adjectives, adverbs, verbs, prepositions, conjunctions, interjections, sentences, phrases, clauses and diagramming. Before Voyages in English we used First Language Lessons For the Well Trained Mind and I liked all of the books 1-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I have not seen it anywhere on-line. Sorry. I also would really like to see samples. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanSue Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 I also would really like to see samples. :( What do you use Hunter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I don't think I want to leave off doing grammar altogether. What else might work for a whole-to-parts workbook-hating, writing-phobic, linguistically-advanced learner? I just asked the same thing about my dd, who is exactly like this, in this thread. We use SWR, a spin-off of Spalding. I have decided that SWR and WWE has enough grammar for the early years and then I will start MCT in either 3rd or 4th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanSue Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 I just asked the same thing about my dd, who is exactly like this, in this thread. We use SWR, a spin-off of Spalding. I have decided that SWR and WWE has enough grammar for the early years and then I will start MCT in either 3rd or 4th grade. I realized after I posted that there were about a dozen grammar threads going at once! You are going to go with MCT? I wish I could get my hands on it. The samples just don't do it for me. My ds is already halfway through 3rd grade and I'm wondering if I should just can FLL for now. I mean, he does it more or less willingly but I really hate wasting his time. He uses his free time very well and he's probably picking up more grammar from Swiss Family Robinson or whatever he's reading right now. Not to disparage FLL at all. I think it will be perfect for dd in a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I realized after I posted that there were about a dozen grammar threads going at once! You are going to go with MCT? I wish I could get my hands on it. The samples just don't do it for me. My ds is already halfway through 3rd grade and I'm wondering if I should just can FLL for now. I mean, he does it more or less willingly but I really hate wasting his time. He uses his free time very well and he's probably picking up more grammar from Swiss Family Robinson or whatever he's reading right now. Not to disparage FLL at all. I think it will be perfect for dd in a couple of years. It is really hard to decide on grammar for a kid who really likes and understands language. I am not convinced that this kind of kid needs years and years of grammar practice, though I also don't believe that a single year of AG is sufficient, either. I have decided, though, that the repetition of FLL would kill dd's love of language. I am not completely sold on MCT, either, but it is the only program remotely like it. Everything else is textbooks and worksheets. It doesn't matter how you package a workbook--it is still a workbook, and dd will still despise it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm4him Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Classical Conversations advocates WRTR and they have a fabulous grammar program called Essentials.....You have to join a community (meets once a week for 2 hours in the afternoon) to buy the guide, though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanSue Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 It is really hard to decide on grammar for a kid who really likes and understands language. I am not convinced that this kind of kid needs years and years of grammar practice, though I also don't believe that a single year of AG is sufficient, either. I have decided, though, that the repetition of FLL would kill dd's love of language. I am not completely sold on MCT, either, but it is the only program remotely like it. Everything else is textbooks and worksheets. It doesn't matter how you package a workbook--it is still a workbook, and dd will still despise it. This is what I'm thinking as well. After talking with dh last night I think we'll just shelve grammar for at least the rest of this year and maybe next. I have lots of fun stuff planned for 4th grade before we get to middle school where I want to kick his writing expectations up a notch. Maybe at that point I'll get a diagramming text for myself and we'll just choose sentences from his reading to pick apart together. I told dh, "I want to do just enough to turn him into a low-level grammar geek." I think maybe waiting until he's old enough to really use grammar knowledge in real work will foster his love of puzzling through diagrams. In the meantime, we're having fun with Latin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 What do you use Hunter? I'm in the middle of tweaking and hopping right now. In the past, I mainly just taught Latin and Greek, and used Students of the Word to parse and diagram KJV sentences. Sometimes I used a bit of Learning English with the Bible. Latin(Henle) and Greek(Machen) just are too much for my remedial tutoring students, so I'm having to learn new ways to teach grammar, that don't include inflected language studies. When I went through a period of heavy seizing where I was sustaining significant brain damages and was really confused and disorganized, I used the Amish CGE workbooks. If I ended out in a similar situation again, that's what I would do again, but the integrated lessons are hard for me to teach from when I am capable of meeting my students right where they are at. I've used the Cozy Grammar videos with ESL students. I've been winging it for months, just teaching sentence compositions during phonics/spelling, using examples from English handbooks and the curricula that I'm not otherwise using. I'm also at point of changing how I teach writing. Loosey-goosey doesn't work for me, but I need to stop teaching topic sentences for ALL writing, as that is rendering my students mute, and I know I don't write like that. For example look at this post. I've been acquiring some 1950s grammar and composition handbooks and reading some free vintage books, and am learning a lot. I think I'm narrowing in on what I'm going to do. I'm also taking another look at SOW language arts and playing around with that at least for my own teacher education. And I've been studying my overpriced Principle approach books. Sorry! No link to something open-and-go. All you get is a ramble from a tired tutor. Is it really still morning? UGH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanSue Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 Sorry! No link to something open-and-go. All you get is a ramble from a tired tutor. Is it really still morning? UGH! I'm not necessarily looking for open and go and it is encouraging to hear where others are. Since my ds seems to be picking up knowledge much as I did (only more so since he has SO MUCH more free time than I had as a ps student) I'm hoping that if I get excited about self-education in more rigorous grammar study, he will see it as something fun we do together. But I don't seem him getting there for a couple of years. Mostly this thread is but one more manifestation of the constant war between my unschooling tendencies and my classical ideals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.