S/O on the LCHF diet. Atkins or South Beach?

[dancer67]

I have heard of a lot of controversy about Atkins. But not so much with South Beach. Anyone prefer one over the other, and could you tell me why? I have done so much reading on LCHF diets, that I need a beginning point. Easy recipes etc........

[Ellie]

South Beach does allow some carbs in the beginning. For those of us who are *very* sensitive to carbs (as in we tend to gain weight with more carbs/have trouble losing weight if eat carbs), Atkins would be better.

 

And since prime rib is my favorite dessert, Atkins is just right for me. :laugh:

[Trilliums]

I think some of the negativity associated with Atkins is due to the initial failure to stress eating enough vegetables. When I first heard about it, it sounded like an all meat diet. The newer Atkins books does a better job emphasizing the need to eat plenty of low carb veggies.

[Joanne]

Both, followed as written and not the urban legend Atkins, are good programs.

 

I found Atkins easier to plan/follow.

[dancer67]

Thanks ladies. In terms of exercise, I do Zumba instead of walking. (It is very icy outside at the moment). Everyone stresses walking, but I really prefer Zumba. Wondering if that is ok? I do it 2X a week for half hour, and an hour Tap class the third day. When summer comes I plan on swimming and walking because I like to be outdoors.

[Ellie]

Thanks ladies. In terms of exercise, I do Zumba instead of walking. (It is very icy outside at the moment). Everyone stresses walking, but I really prefer Zumba. Wondering if that is ok? I do it 2X a week for half hour, and an hour Tap class the third day. When summer comes I plan on swimming and walking because I like to be outdoors.

 

 

Why wouldn't Zumba instead of walking be ok??

[Ellie]

Both, followed as written and not the urban legend Atkins, are good programs.

 

I know, right? People always disagree with an Atkins that doesn't actually, you know, exist.

[Matryoshka]

South Beach is not high fat, although it is low carb, but no no carb or ultra low carb. For example, beans are allowed even in phase 1 (but no fruit at all). Dairy is low-fat - no cream or butter, no bacon (except maybe as flavor sprinkles, not as a meal).

 

I love South Beach. I like that it's not extreme. After the first two week virtually no-carb induction (ie sugar detox), it's pretty much healthy fats, lean meats, fish, legumes, lots of veggies, fruit and whole grains in moderation, and no added sugar.

[freeindeed]

Atkins. I've been living that lifestyle for almost three years. I feel great! And Zumba is an awesome workout. I love it, too.

[dancer67]

I will have to research Atkins more. Is their own site the best one, and do you have to pay to join? Or is it free? Oh,and I asked about Zumba instead of walking because everyone says WALK WALK WALK. And I love Zumba because I love to dance. I am still kind of leaning towards South Beach because it doesn't seem to be as extreme as Atkins. But I will certainly research it. Thanks.

[nono]

Gary Taubes says there's a fatal flaw in South Beach in one of his books. Of course, it is on my Kindle upstairs and I'm cooking in the kitchen. I will look it up later and post, I promise. (I have no idea if I believe Gary Taubes on that item, but I've done both and find New Atkins to be closer to how I like to eat, so it has to be better, right? ;) )

[Renee in NC]

I do a modified South Beach diet, but I need more carbs because of heavy exercise. I don't eat dairy (allergic) and I do eat some higher fat cuts of meat at times (and bacon! I love bacon!)

 

My carbs come entirely from fruits, veggies, and beans - no grains. I couldn't keep up my exercise routines without these carbs, trust me!

[Renee in NC]

Thanks ladies. In terms of exercise, I do Zumba instead of walking. (It is very icy outside at the moment). Everyone stresses walking, but I really prefer Zumba. Wondering if that is ok? I do it 2X a week for half hour, and an hour Tap class the third day. When summer comes I plan on swimming and walking because I like to be outdoors.

 

 

I don't know why you couldn't sub one for the other. I am currently doing Les Mills Pump (3 days strength/3 days heavy cardio), Couch to 5K, and some Insanity thrown in. This takes me an hour or so a day. If I had to limit myself to walking, I would never lose any weight!

[Ellie]

I will have to research Atkins more. Is their own site the best one, and do you have to pay to join? Or is it free? Oh,and I asked about Zumba instead of walking because everyone says WALK WALK WALK. And I love Zumba because I love to dance. I am still kind of leaning towards South Beach because it doesn't seem to be as extreme as Atkins. But I will certainly research it. Thanks.

 

 

You can walk into almost any bookstore and buy your very own copy of the Atkins Diet. If you're going to do Atkins, that's my best recommendation.

 

Or you can probably check it out from your local library and read it first.

 

It is not the *kind* of activity that is important; it is only the activity.

[dancer67]

I just saw that my library has it. I am going to check that one out. I do like to belong to forums because you always gain insight(and encouragement) from others there. Flaw in South Beach? Yes, would love to hear it.

[nono]

Still haven't gotten upstairs.* HOWEVER, I remember thinking at the time I read it that it would be easy enough, knowing the information, to adjust.

 

But my point really is that the plan that matches how you naturally eat is THE BEST for you (New Atkins aligns with my best way, so naturally, I'm a proponent!)

 

*(Watching last week's White Collar...)

[nono]

OK, who has a copy of Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat? Apparently, I used the Kindle Lending library to read it, and now it isn't available? Sometimes the KLL totally leaves me :confused: .

[Chocolate Rose]

OK, who has a copy of Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat? Apparently, I used the Kindle Lending library to read it, and now it isn't available? Sometimes the KLL totally leaves me :confused: .

I've got it but SB isn't listed in the index. Any idea on which part of the book to look?

[Ellie]

I just saw that my library has it. I am going to check that one out. I do like to belong to forums because you always gain insight(and encouragement) from others there.

 

That's true, but it helps to read the book first so that you know for sure what Atkins is all about.

[nono]

I've got it but SB isn't listed in the index. Any idea on which part of the book to look?

 

Well, that's a bummer! If I am remembering correctly, it was later in the book, and I'm recalling it as an asterisk footnote. I just checked my library and they don't have the book, otherwise, I'd drop by today and pick it up. Worst case, I can ILL request it. Because again, I seem to recall thinking, "Wellll.....easily fixed." It's like folks who say, "Atkins has no vegetables." Or infer that the induction part of the plan is the plan. Also, I'm not sure if the current version of South Beach is the same as when I did it, so it may have evolved, just like Atkins.

[Chocolate Rose]

Here's what I found as a footnote:

 

"* The South Beach Diet (2003) is another best-selling variation on this theme, but with the emphasis on lean meats and fats from vegetable sources (olive and canola oil, avocados and nuts, for instance) rather than animal. In the one clinical trial of the diet. weight loss, as expected rivaled the Atkins-like diets, but not the beneficial results for heart-disease and diabetes risk factors."

Is that what you were looking for?

[nono]

Yea! Chocolate Rose -- that might be it...for someone like me, I want the results not looking for a good bod at my age. But one could tweak SB with not eschewing the butter or animal fat all the time if that was a concern for them. I thought it was also something about it trending into too high a protein/too low a fat ratio...but I could be misremembering that. Heck, I couldn't even remember that I didn't own the book. :bored: :laugh:

[dancer67]

Here's what I found as a footnote:

 

"* The South Beach Diet (2003) is another best-selling variation on this theme, but with the emphasis on lean meats and fats from vegetable sources (olive and canola oil, avocados and nuts, for instance) rather than animal. In the one clinical trial of the diet. weight loss, as expected rivaled the Atkins-like diets, but not the beneficial results for heart-disease and diabetes risk factors."

Is that what you were looking for?

 

Well, the reason for Atkins or South beach is to lower my blood sugar(fasting has been around 105 for about 3 years, but post prandial readings are good). I have high blood pressure(controlled with lowest dose BP meds) and a stomach. I weigh now about 138. I was 143. Dr. says to aim for 130 pounds. Cut back on sugar and carbs. Exercise minimum 3X a week. South Beach seemed better because it wasn't so strict, and seemed doable for lifetime maintenance. But I have not read through Atkins in a long time, so I need to re-read it again. I do have a high Trig rate(197) overall cholesterol was 210. I was a sugar-aholic. Literally. I have since cut WAY back on both sugar an carbs. So eating high fat, doesn't that raise cholesterol? Or is that really a myth? Thanks for posting al this info.

[Ellie]

So eating high fat, doesn't that raise cholesterol? Or is that really a myth? Thanks for posting al this info.

 

 

My cholesterol went down 100 points in two months just by going back to Atkins.

[dancer67]

 

My cholesterol went down 100 points in two months just by going back to Atkins.

But what about long term maintenance? This is what I have to look at closely. If it is to hard to maintain a healthy weight on the maintenance phase, then there really isn't any point to doing it. Also, I need to find some studies that have been done(reputable, like NHI or PubMed) on the long term effects of being on a diet like Atkins. How are the overall cholesterol readings after say, 5 years of STAYING on Atkins. Here is what I see, and please correct me if I am wrong. When you cook bacon, what happens to that fat if left to long? Right, it hardens. So if it hardens in the pan, what is it doing to your arteries? Second question is this. Can that be avoided, by drinking something hot when eating something like bacon? Heat will keep fat from hardening. If you eat bacon with orange juice, for example. Wouldn't it make "logical" sense that it would harden? Not looking for an argument. Just trying to understand the whole high fat does not = high cholesterol and/or heart disease. And Ellie, you said "by going back to Atkins". So that tells me you did not stay on this consistently, correct?

[dancer67]

From what I have read on SB, the maintenance phase is easy to maintain for life. Both PubMed and NIH states that this is a well balanced dietary program. Especially for those who want to lose weight, control blood sugar, high blood pressure and be able to eat healthier foods. Off to look it up on Atkins.

[dancer67]

This is an interesting read. Atkins has the highest sodium intake. Not so good if you have high blood pressure. Looks like SB is middle of the road. And two other diet plans seemed to outrank both SB and Atkins. With Atkins being last. Hmmmm.....I don't like all that sodium.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040023/

[Joanne]

This is an interesting read. Atkins has the highest sodium intake. Not so good if you have high blood pressure. Looks like SB is middle of the road. And two other diet plans seemed to outrank both SB and Atkins. With Atkins being last. Hmmmm.....I don't like all that sodium.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040023/

 

 

Atkins is, essentially, meat and vegetables. As such, sodium intake is easily regulated by the dieter themselves.

 

Also, from your article:

 

 

 

 

was calculated via sample menus provided in published media for the New Glucose Revolution, Weight Watchers, Atkins, South Beach, Zone, Ornish, and 2005 US Department of Agriculture Food Guide Pyramid (2005 Food Guide Pyramid) plans.

 

I don't buy into the science behind WW, Ornish and the US Dept of Agriculture and Food Guide. Therefore, the comparison is not meaningful to me.

[Ellie]

This is an interesting read. Atkins has the highest sodium intake. Not so good if you have high blood pressure. Looks like SB is middle of the road. And two other diet plans seemed to outrank both SB and Atkins. With Atkins being last. Hmmmm.....I don't like all that sodium.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040023/

 

 

I don't know why Atkins would hve the "highest sodium intake." That doesn't make sense at all. You eat veggies and protein, with as much fruit and high-carb food as your body can tolerate; where's the salt in that??

[Ellie]

But what about long term maintenance? This is what I have to look at closely. If it is to hard to maintain a healthy weight on the maintenance phase, then there really isn't any point to doing it. Also, I need to find some studies that have been done(reputable, like NHI or PubMed) on the long term effects of being on a diet like Atkins. How are the overall cholesterol readings after say, 5 years of STAYING on Atkins. Here is what I see, and please correct me if I am wrong. When you cook bacon, what happens to that fat if left to long? Right, it hardens. So if it hardens in the pan, what is it doing to your arteries?

Seriously? Bacon drippings (and other similar fats) harden at room (and colder, such as the fridge) temperatures. Your body is not room temperature, and the fat is digested. There's no sitting out 'til it hardens.

 

Second question is this. Can that be avoided, by drinking something hot when eating something like bacon? Heat will keep fat from hardening. If you eat bacon with orange juice, for example. Wouldn't it make "logical" sense that it would harden? Not looking for an argument. Just trying to understand the whole high fat does not = high cholesterol and/or heart disease.

 

Um...your question isn't very logical. Sorry.

 

And Ellie, you said "by going back to Atkins". So that tells me you did not stay on this consistently, correct?

 

I have long-term, under-medicated low-thyroid issues. I don't lose weight on Atkins. I don't *gain* weight, either. I did a low-fat, calorie-restricted diet for six months; although I did lose weight, at the end of that six months my total cholesterol was over 300.

[dancer67]

So from what I have researched, there has not been any long term studies done on either diet. I am going to ask my friends husband who is a cardiologist and see what he thinks. In the end, I will make the final decision. What I DO know that eating low carb does decrease blood sugars and trigs. It is just a matter of how much your body can handle once re-introduced, and how one can maintain this way of eating long term. I am still on the fence about eating all that fat. Especially all that meat. I like meat, but not in large quantities. I have the Atkins book on hold at the library. Thanks Ellie for sharing your experience with me.

[Joanne]

So from what I have researched, there has not been any long term studies done on either diet. I am going to ask my friends husband who is a cardiologist and see what he thinks. In the end, I will make the final decision. What I DO know that eating low carb does decrease blood sugars and trigs. It is just a matter of how much your body can handle once re-introduced, and how one can maintain this way of eating long term. I am still on the fence about eating all that fat. Especially all that meat. I like meat, but not in large quantities. I have the Atkins book on hold at the library. Thanks Ellie for sharing your experience with me.

 

Why We Get Fat by Taubes might be a better option for you right now. You seem to want brain food from a scientific standpoint. That book (and the earlier Good Calores/Bad Calories) does a good job of explaining the science of low carb. But, more importantly, it chronicles the low fat agenda.