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Would you interfere if your kids felt left out?


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So in the fall I finally found a group of homeschooling moms that I like, and they have been very warm and welcoming to me. I have a pretty great group of friends now! The thing that makes me so sad and feeling with becoming more withdrawn is that several things have happened with the kids and my 2 boys have felt really left out. My boys are 6 and 8.

These are some of the things that have happened....

- while hanging out my boys were the only 2 kids who did not get a turn on a wii even when they voiced they wanted to play. The kids were playing for at least 3 hours.

- while hanging out again at the same house, 2 of the kids aged 11 and 6 were blocking the doorway to a room repeatedly saying my boys could not enter. All the other kids (like 12 of them) were in the room and my 2 boys were "locked out" so to speak.

- kids were playing with one of the boys guns at a different house. When it was put down and my son picked it up the owner of the gun (a 6 year old) said they were not allowed to play with it, and neither was my other son.

- one time 2 boys were in a room and a bunch of kids were outside. My boys were hanging out in the hallway and they knocked on the door to the room where the other boys were playing. One of the boys opened the door and shouted "Go away!" This was one time that I heard what happened and I went to investigate. I knocked on the door and asked if my boys could come in and play with them. They said yes, but immediately left the room when my boys tried to enter. I made sure the other boys understood that during these large group play times they weren't to be excluding others.

 

If we were new to a group of long time friends I could see why this might happen, but we are sort of newish friends. I can tell my boys are struggling and feeling left out. I have always had a hard time making friends so I can empathize with my boys. They are wonderful boys....they are adorable, don't stink, are kind, not domineering, and thoughtful and I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to hang out with them. I really want to tell my friends to tell their kids to stop being jerks to my kids, but maybe this is not the best way to handle it? I have told my boys if ANYTHING like this arises again to just come get me and I will help them work through it with the other kids. But I really want to let the other moms know that their kids are being mean to my kids!

 

I would love some insight into how you might handle something like this....if it is best to coach my kids and see if they can solve this with their peers (the other kids are aged 4-14, so some of them definitely know better) or if I should speak to the parents. I have seen some of the other moms rave about how wonderful their kids new friends are in this group (btw it's 9 families who regularly get together), and all I can think is that they are being horrible to my kids. Why my kids? These women are my support!

Thank you for reading my rant!

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I would have kids come to me, but I would also make an effort to not be too far away so I can keep an ear to the ground so to speak.

 

Have the other women heard or seen any of this? If so, what was their reaction?

 

Did you ask the kids why they were doing that? For example, did you ask the boys why they left the room when yours came in? Without asking them, I'm not sure I can help you because I don't know what the cause of their behavior is.

 

I would absolutely start calling out the other kids for being rude in a non rude manner.

 

For example

Me: can my boys play in here?

Yes. (they promptly leave)

Me: wait, why are you leaving? Why can't you guys get along? Is there a problem?

 

Pending their response, I'd either deal with my kids and or ask one of the other moms what response she thinks appropriate.

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Well, when they did leave the room in that particular instance I did approach the boy whose house we were at and ask him if there was a problem. He said no, and I reminded him that during these get togethers no one should be excluding others and he said, "Of course." He invited my boys to his birthday party last week, so it's not like he doesn't like them. So....I don't really understand either.

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We have had some problems like this and I've intervened. I've been shocked at the bad behavior I've seen from some of the kids in my hs group and unfortunately, the moms are so busy chatting that they pay no attention to the kids. So, i decided my first priority at these groups has been my kids. If they can be happy there, then I'll relax and chat. But my socializing needs (from this group) come second. It's not worth it if they're miserable and having to put up with 8 yo's who can't share and take turns :toetap05:

 

So, I've hung out with the kids instead of the moms and just kind of played with them. If I see my son ask to have a turn 10 times and never get one, i will say to the little bugger, "okay can someone else have a turn now?" After a few play dates like this, I now know which kids I just avoid since the moms (when they have been made aware of said behavior) clearly have some authority problems.

 

It's also made me realize that ds is more assertive than I thought he was. I thought the problem was that he just didn't stand up for himself. Now I realize its really just these particular kids. Which has really made me fall in love with my own dc even more.

 

You have to do what feels right to you, though and I know it's hard when you feel isolated.

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First, it depends on the structure of the group. With my group, my number one priority is mom's night out, my kids don't enjoy the various group activities so except interesting field trips I don't fell compelled to do those and it is a 100 family group so no big deal.

 

If this is the only thing this group does, then you'll need to decide if you want to raise this concern. Do so after you've decide that if it can't be fixed you'll need to find another group (and depending on the area, maybe it would be wise to have auditioned a few other groups as well).

 

Do so in a non-confrontational way. I've got a concern and need your help and input, my children have told me this, that and the other happened. Do not name who's kid did what. Ask has anyone else heard about this? I have felt that at these events we need so basic ground rules for play. What should we do?

 

At the least the closed door thing is concerning. What are they doing in there? Are they keeping your boys out so they won't get old on for something they know they shouldn't be doing?

 

What you need to be is steeled to here some facts about your kids that you may not want to hear and may not be true. What you will want to do in advance is make a list of things that you think everyone should agree to for the group time: no closed doors, rules for sharing toys of the kid who's house you are in, rules for dealing with a kid who won't stop doing something, etc. Keep it short and reasonable.Maybe it will work out that you moms need to take turns monitoring the kids, you could do it for half an hour watches.

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Hmm. Idk. I'd have at least a minor problem with someone coming into my home and telling me we have to have certain rules when they come over.

 

I have given my teens permission for years to shut their doors against younger visitors. And tho I do insist everyone make an effort to be nice, no I don't make them share everything. It is their stuff, not communal property, they have every right to decide not to share it. This isn't true much for little kids, but I would think it is for kids over 8 and certainly Tweens and teens.

 

If a parent wanted to talk to me, the best approach would be:

 

"I've been hoping my boys would get over some new kid rough spots and settle in with some new friends. But that doesn't seem to be happening. They feel really left out and not liked by the other kids. Especially when x y and z happened. I probably should have said something to you then. (You should have by the way.) But I didn't want to make it harder for them by getting other kids in trouble."

 

Now that isn't accusatory. It isn't demanding. No one is claiming anything about each others kids. It's just a friendly mom sharing kid troubles with another mom. I am likely to respond positively. The ball is now in that moms court. Pending how it works out, you may decide the group isn't for you or maybe it's best to keep it as a mom event for you, or maybe things will work out.

 

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Hmm. Idk. I'd have at least a minor problem with someone coming into my home and telling me we have to have certain rules when they come over.

 

Then you probably shouldn't host a group play date. However, I do have small co-op that meets in my home, I set the rule that nobody goes upstairs except my kids during co-op hours. If one of mine wants to retreat, fine, but they don't get to bring others with them when we are doing a group activity. Needing to retreat isn't hurtful, bringing all the over kids of one age except one or two to a private space is.

 

I have given my teens permission for years to shut their doors against younger visitors. And tho I do insist everyone make an effort to be nice, no I don't make them share everything. It is their stuff, not communal property, they have every right to decide not to share it. This isn't true much for little kids, but I would think it is for kids over 8 and certainly Tweens and teens.

 

Again, it's a communal activity, if you don't want something played with then don't leave it out. In our case we have mostly 12 and up with two toddlers. I had been very low key about the toddlers mucking around in decorative stuff (there were even a couple of "gifted" objects that I suggested would be great to play with) but I realized when I couldn't find the key to an antique lock I usually keep on a low table that I needed to move it up out of toddler reach because although it was unbreakable I was kind of unhappy about the missing key (eventually found).

 

If I am reading the OP correctly a toy was on the ground not being played with and was taken away, not kosher unless there was a huge age difference in ability and toy and possibility of damage. As I read this, I did not see a teen being invaded by a bunch of toddlers or even ten year olds. I see a group in the same general age range. However a big age range, to me speaks even more powerfully of why there should be rules.

 

If a parent wanted to talk to me, the best approach would be:

 

"I've been hoping my boys would get over some new kid rough spots and settle in with some new friends. But that doesn't seem to be happening. They feel really left out and not liked by the other kids. Especially when x y and z happened. I probably should have said something to you then. (You should have by the way.) But I didn't want to make it harder for them by getting other kids in trouble."

 

Now that isn't accusatory. It isn't demanding. No one is claiming anything about each others kids. It's just a friendly mom sharing kid troubles with another mom. I am likely to respond positively. The ball is now in that moms court. Pending how it works out, you may decide the group isn't for you or maybe it's best to keep it as a mom event for you, or maybe things will work out.

 

I think while you are focusing on the one on one family interaction, I assume that this is something that occurs at different homes and with different kids, if so, it needs to be discussed as a group. While I wouldn't want a set of rules for a play date activity to be so rigid that most people don't want to host or come, I think it easier on all to have some good up front rules that apply at every house. Rules are a fence and good fence, I'm told make good neighbors.

 

Really, the best time to set some level of expectations is at the beginning of a group. I encourage anyone trying to set up even a fairly informal group to plan on leading a discussion on group expectations. I've learned from being on forums, that it is wise to ask things like, "Do you own guns? IF so are they safely out of reach? Can your own children get to them?"

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Sometimes I feel like a control freak when I'm the only one who speaks up when kids are being obnoxious to one another. But usually I decide that someone needs to, and I guess it will have to be me! I think that some perfectly kind, loving, responsible adults don't deal with this kind of behavior in a group of kids because it just isn't part of their own personality to get involved, so they ignore it even when they know it's going on. Since my personality/values are more likely to make me want to "wade in," I do when I think adult instruction is needed. Others may not think so, but as an ENTJ my strong sense of justice kicks in and I decide to act. Sometimes this ruffles feathers, but most often I find it emboldens other moms to do/say something next time or they even thank me for taking care of it!

 

I have an acquaintance who is obsessed with "no interference" playdates from the time they are babies. She thinks if left to themselves, the kids will always work things out and learn empathy for one another. I think it's more likely that bad patterns will be set up where certain children will use their personalities to exert control and bully the others. We don't hang out anymore.

 

Just yesterday I "interfered" with my son's playdate at the park to instruct the kids a bit. DS (3.25) usually plays quite well with his friend J (barely 5). They play imaginative games and DS is very good at playing along at a level that J is happy with. When T (5.5), who they only see rarely, joined them however, the two older boys abandoned DS and said things like, "DS can't play with us." "He's a baby." "Let's run away from him." "We win the race and he loses!" etc. I watched a bit. They started playing construction with buckets/trucks and DS tried to join them appropriately by adding some dirt to their bucket. They continued to exclude him. Then he tried harder to get their attention. He added a smaller bucket to the bigger bucket and J pulled it out and threw it at him, saying he was "messing it up." So DS dumped their dirt and they yelled at him.

 

This is when I intervened. First I talked to DS about not dumping their stuff. But then I explained to the boys, "J was playing nicely with DS before you came, T. Then you two decided to run off and leave him out. That hurts his feelings, so he's doing whatever he can to try to get back in your game. He tried to play nicely, but you were mean to him, so he started bugging you to get your attention. I bet if you told him what you are playing and what he can do to help, he'd play nicely with you." T immediately took my advice, and the 3 boys played nicely for the next hour! I think a little gentle instruction from another adult can be a good thing. It seems to work a lot better than what often happens when several moms just yell across the playground, "Be nice!" without any specific coaching.

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Meh. I host large gatherings of kids fairly often. Sometimes as much as 30 kids. I declare my house rules up front. *shrug*

 

I don't know the set up, but generally speaking people don't appreciate being told they have to follow someone else's rules in their home. Obviously ymmv.

 

The OP seemed to be asking how to bring this up to the other moms. I suggested what would resonate with me and most likely get a positive reaction. Again, ymmv.

 

Just because I open my home to a gathering does not mean I'm interested in developing group rules and so forth. These ladies have been meeting for some time before this lady came on scene iirc. New person deciding to call a meeting for rule making sounds like a fabulous way to alienate people and cause division in a group IMO.

 

However it sounds like they are nice and want to include her and are maybe just oblivious to her kids not being as readily included by their kids. Which is fairly common and shouldn't be that hard for them to address if she approaches them diplomatically about it.

 

 

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These ladies have been meeting for some time before this lady came on scene iirc. New person deciding to call a meeting for rule making sounds like a fabulous way to alienate people and cause division in a group IMO.

 

However it sounds like they are nice and want to include her and are maybe just oblivious to her kids not being as readily included by their kids. Which is fairly common and shouldn't be that hard for them to address if she approaches them diplomatically about it.

 

I guess you and I are reading the OP differently. When I read this line, I get that this is a new group with all new to each other people.

 

If we were new to a group of long time friends I could see why this might happen, but we are sort of newish friends.

 

And a lot depends on what kind of language has already been used. Have they talked about this as a group, do they have a schedule? Rotate homes, etc? Or do they meet somewhat regularly and always at only one or two mom's homes? Is a group or is it just a get together? That I can only guess at.

 

To the OP: as you can see people have difference in how to handle this. If you enjoy these moms and would like to continue in this group, and maybe see it as having a possibly bigger future with more families, then you need to speak up to the whole group. On the other hand, you can handle it one on one and hope to handle it that way, but I think having everyone on the same page always makes for stronger group dynamics.

 

I think based on what you've written, you are at a cross roads, do you go forward? Or just leave the group quietly? If you do go forward do you work only with your children or the other kids too? Or do you work with the moms, all or just one on one? I'm not sure any path can offer a complete chance of success.

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Thank you everyone.

 

Sorry if I was unclear.....we are all new friends, mostly unschoolers, meeting as friends. We are not a co-op or organized group. Just friends who like to hang out. Rules would not go over well, however I don't feel it is fair to exclude during our visits. I don't host get togethers because I could not handle that many friends in my house at one time, but when we invite people over we don't exclude. They are our guests.

 

I guess my biggest question is should I tell the other moms my kids feel excluded by their kids? I know that if my kids were being hurtful towards someone I would want to know so I could coach them. I don't think the kids are cruel kids....maybe they don't think that what they are doing would hurt their feelings.

 

We are all in private Facebook group, and I thought about bringing it up on their by saying something like: my kids have been feeling generally excluded (I could provide examples). Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could help them? Something like that. :)

 

I feel like I want to tell my friends their kids have been unkind to mine (I wouldn't use those words....I'd have to come up with something more diplomatic and non accusing) I'm just trying to get a general sense of what is socially acceptable. Generally what happens is I let things fester inside me until I can no longer bear it, then I end up being passive-aggressive and somewhat rude because I have been hurting for so long. And when it involves my kids....well, the mama bear inside me wants to swat. Haha.

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Thank you everyone.

 

Sorry if I was unclear.....we are all new friends, mostly unschoolers, meeting as friends. We are not a co-op or organized group. Just friends who like to hang out. Rules would not go over well, however I don't feel it is fair to exclude during our visits. I don't host get togethers because I could not handle that many friends in my house at one time, but when we invite people over we don't exclude. They are our guests.

 

I guess my biggest question is should I tell the other moms my kids feel excluded by their kids? I know that if my kids were being hurtful towards someone I would want to know so I could coach them. I don't think the kids are cruel kids....maybe they don't think that what they are doing would hurt their feelings.

 

We are all in private Facebook group, and I thought about bringing it up on their by saying something like: my kids have been feeling generally excluded (I could provide examples). Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could help them? Something like that. :)

 

I feel like I want to tell my friends their kids have been unkind to mine (I wouldn't use those words....I'd have to come up with something more diplomatic and non accusing) I'm just trying to get a general sense of what is socially acceptable. Generally what happens is I let things fester inside me until I can no longer bear it, then I end up being passive-aggressive and somewhat rude because I have been hurting for so long. And when it involves my kids....well, the mama bear inside me wants to swat. Haha.

 

 

No, no, no, not on FB! In person, if at all possible.

 

If it were me, I'd be saying out loud, to *my* kids, as they run off to play: "Make sure you don't exclude those who want to play with you!" Hopefully the other parents will follow suit.

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I agree....definitely not on Facebook. In person, talk to the other moms and mention that your kids aren't really enjoying the get-togethers because they feel left out and excluded. That should be enough to get the idea across. Then, if things don't improve after a few meetups, then let them know you will be dropping out since its just not a good fit for your kids.

 

If you do it on Facebook, someone will end up taking it as a personal attack on their parenting or on their kids.

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Definitely in person!

 

I think this could really go any which way, and without knowing the personalities involved, there's no way to know for sure.

 

We have had issues between my son and two cousins (one a year older, the other a year younger). My sister in law was amazing in coaching her kids through it, and I worked a ton on things with my son. In my case, ds was being annoying after being excluded so I'd say to sil: "sorry he's pestering. I feel badly for him though, I think he's feeling really excluded. Let me go talk with him." She talked with her kids too, and we basically just worked on it from there. Now (2 years later), the kids generally get along really well. I really credit her willingness to teach her kids patience and empathy.

 

I agree with being more present and addressing things during the playdates, including asking questions of the other kids. I agree with bringing it up with a parent with whom you feel comfortable and seeing how they respond. I agree with loudly saying (to your own kids) "make sure you include everyone!" as kids run off to play, and then lots and lots of coaching of your boys on how to respond to situations.

 

I know that our issue with the cousins wouldn't have resolved if it hadn't been for both of us working really hard on it. I hope you (and the other parents!) can help the kids to resolve this, and you can keep being a part of this group, since it sounds like you enjoy the moms!

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I have an acquaintance who is obsessed with "no interference" playdates from the time they are babies. She thinks if left to themselves, the kids will always work things out and learn empathy for one another. I think it's more likely that bad patterns will be set up where certain children will use their personalities to exert control and bully the others.

 

:svengo: She's read Lord of the FLies, right?

 

It's too bad you don't hang out with her anymore... I'd LOOOOOVE to hear how well her no-interference policy worked out for her kid. :leaving:

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:svengo: She's read Lord of the FLies, right?

 

It's too bad you don't hang out with her anymore... I'd LOOOOOVE to hear how well her no-interference policy worked out for her kid. :leaving:

 

Totally OT, but I've always felt Lord of the Flies got it wrong; I think I read The Admirable Crichton before it. It's always made me think that in a real desperation situation the cream would rise to the top which I think in Flies would be Pig who instead is killed.

 

However, I do believe children need a lot of interference.

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"They don't stink." LOL!

 

That is a hard situation. I agree that addressing it on FB is a bad idea. I would send an email to the moms or talk to them in person. I know some people think email is a bit impersonal for addressing a problem like this but 1) you are needing to talk to multiple moms, so this would save you multiple phone calls. Obviously you don't want to stand on a soap box and address your concerns to ALL the moms at the group, ya know? I can't think of a better alternative than a thoughtful email. 2) you can word your concerns carefully, 3) they won't feel put on the spot and can think about what you've said and respond thoughtfully.

 

If you send an email I would try to:

 

1) Play down it being a "big deal." It's already going to seem big enough that you are sending a mass email to them. So emphasize how much you like the group, enjoy their company, etc, though this one thing is bothering you.

 

2) Emphasize that their kids might be being playful and not realize how it makes your kids feel. (So you don't sound too accusing.)

 

3) Tell them that out of respect for their authority over their own kids, you don't want to rebuke anybody or embarrass anyone's kids who are doing the excluding.

 

4) State that you would just appreciate it if they could just mention it to their kids so they are aware.

 

5) Emphasize that you don't like to see your boys' feelings hurt and make it clear that this is the intention of the email (i.e. NOT primarily to tattle-tale on their kids).

 

That should definitely get the ball rolling, and my guess is that if you are nice enough about it they will totally understand (especially if they already like you), apologize, and give their kids a talking-to.

 

If their parents can deal with it, I would bring any behavior issues to the parents' attention and steer away from correcting other people's kids unless it's really necessary.

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I'm so sorry!!!! My family had something very similar happen in a park day group. For unknown reasons, the "head manipulator" as I called him decided that my boys would be his targets, and made it known that the other kids could either go along with it or become additional targets. It was flat out bullying, and we endured it for too long. The other moms (except the mom of that boy) came to see it, too, and saw the influence on their kids. We tried an intervention, it failed.

 

Eventually, our family and others pulled back from the group. I loved the moms, but my boys had to come first. DS12 eventually discovered that his buddies in scouts and swim team (all in B&M schools) were a nice gang and is fine. DS9 is getting there.

 

Honestly, please, for your boys sake, intervene sooner rather than later. Bring it up to the moms. It is very possible that this is being led by only 1 or 2 boys, with the others going along. You might discover they are more aware than you realize, and you can all work together on this. Or you might have to forego the group.

 

Very best wishes!

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"They don't stink." LOL!

 

That is a hard situation. I agree that addressing it on FB is a bad idea. I would send an email to the moms or talk to them in person. I know some people think email is a bit impersonal for addressing a problem like this but 1) you are needing to talk to multiple moms, so this would save you multiple phone calls. Obviously you don't want to stand on a soap box and address your concerns to ALL the moms at the group, ya know? I can't think of a better alternative than a thoughtful email. 2) you can word your concerns carefully, 3) they won't feel put on the spot and can think about what you've said and respond thoughtfully.

 

If you send an email I would try to:

 

1) Play down it being a "big deal." It's already going to seem big enough that you are sending a mass email to them. So emphasize how much you like the group, enjoy their company, etc, though this one thing is bothering you.

 

2) Emphasize that their kids might be being playful and not realize how it makes your kids feel. (So you don't sound too accusing.)

 

3) Tell them that out of respect for their authority over their own kids, you don't want to rebuke anybody or embarrass anyone's kids who are doing the excluding.

 

4) State that you would just appreciate it if they could just mention it to their kids so they are aware.

 

5) Emphasize that you don't like to see your boys' feelings hurt and make it clear that this is the intention of the email (i.e. NOT primarily to tattle-tale on their kids).

 

That should definitely get the ball rolling, and my guess is that if you are nice enough about it they will totally understand (especially if they already like you), apologize, and give their kids a talking-to.

 

If their parents can deal with it, I would bring any behavior issues to the parents' attention and steer away from correcting other people's kids unless it's really necessary.

 

 

This is what I needed...a step by step process. I really am terrible bringing up things in person. I lose my words and things come out all wrong. We communicate to each other via the emails on FB, so that is what I meant by putting it on FB - by sending out a private message to them all...which is the same as an email. I'm terrified of addressing them face to face because I am just socially uncomfortable in general with people. Especially when everyone is looking at and listening to me. I clam up and get tears in my eyes. Talking to 3 or 4 people and having them all listen to me is akin to standing up on a stage and talking to thousands....I get that level of fear.

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When these sorts of things happen in my group of friends, I just tell my friends what is happening. Each and every one always jumps up to correct or discipline their children. I could not continue these friendships if I didn't feel like everyone was looking out for each others' kids.

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I skimmed this thread, but my thought was: could you have one or two children over at a time to play with your children? It's possible that the other kids didn't mean to exclude yours but were just being kids, which can mean that they're not always sensitive to other kids' needs. Especially if your kids are new to the group, the other kids may just be playing with kids they already know and may find it hard to remember how to include other kids. We've been hanging out with a particular group of kids for about 3 1/2 years now, and it really took a good couple of years before my kids felt really a part of things. For that matter, while the other moms were very nice to me, it took a couple of years before *I* felt like I was a real part of the group. It really helped me to get to know one or two moms at a time, and I've seen that gradually happen with my kids as well. I don't think it's unreasonable to remind other kids of things like, "everyone gets a turn," but I'd focus on finding a couple of other kids that yours click with best, and hopefully that will, in time, open the whole group up more.

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