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A pastor's criticism of homeschoolers


warmthnstrength
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I'm curious to hear some reactions, particularly from conservative Christian women, to the following criticisms of homeschooling found on a pastor's website. The comments underneath are mostly "We homeschool, and actually these ARE the major problems with it." Agree? And how do you avoid these pitfalls in your home?

 

 

Quote 1: http://baylyblog.com/blog/2010/05/recovering-little-schoolhouse

 

"The conservative Christian, however, tends to be more captivated by the Sirens over yonder, on the other side of the trail. He wanders off that way to avoid the Government School and Mainstream Christian Schools along with their pitfalls and spiritual landmines and lameness, but he fails to regard the traps concealed in the Home School. (He forgets that hearts deceitful above all things and desperately wicked populate the home as well as McKinley Elementary School.) The most significant trap is as big as the broad side of a barn. Much bigger actually. ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s Fortress Home School. The idolatry of the Fortress is more difficult to identify because Hugh Heffner and Big Brother arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t superintending the classrooms. Mom is the superintendent, and she bakes apple pies and chocolate chip cookies. And she happens to be very beautiful.

What are the dangers? One danger is that the children themselves become idols and the exclusive recipients of the motherĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s ministry outside the church (and in some cases, the exclusive recipients, period). The children, in turn, fail to learn that the home should be a place of extending the mercy of Jesus Christ to the weak and oppressed. Instead, they are taught that the home is not the place to practice hospitality to strangers, clothe the naked, feed the poor, or wash the feet of the saints. Who has the time or energy for that?

Another danger is that parents come to think that they are the exclusive repositories of all wisdom that concerns the education of their children. Or they become unwilling to make any accommodations toward a common effort in training the children of others and their own.

Another danger is the lack of manly training, accountability, and challenges for older boys during much of the day. While fathers of past generations were able to work with their sons during certain seasons of the year or times of the day, modern socioeconomic realities and divisions of labor simply wonĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t permit it. So even in earlier eras in which the home school predominated and even if the mother bore most of the responsibility for what we would today call academic instruction, the father was relatively close to home and could discipline and teach and push his sons to work hard. In Fortress Home School, the mother contends with her older boys. No matter who prevails, this contest has no winners. The mother risks overpowering her son or ending every day in frustration and bitterness."

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All I can say is that he doesn't know the homeschoolng families I do. One family in particular spends a large amount of time doing ministry work - handing out food and clothing to the homeless. They are probably the most mission minded people I know - period. They are academically rigorous and work in the soup kitchen and hand out blankets and clothes to the homeless on the streets on the weekends.

 

I can just say his preaching wouldn't be my cup of tea at all. God gave me these kids to take care of. What else God has me to do is between God and me. And I don't know what he's getting at with the older boys thing. Dads haven't been able to work with their sons the way he describes since farming days.

 

I don't have the conflict with my older boys he describes here.

 

(Edited because I totally killed a kitten with an apostrophe)

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Perhaps this is the case with some families. We've found that we have more time to be involved with the church and volunteering, than if they were in school. I purposely am not involved in Awana, children's church and youth group, so that the kids are with other adults. I want them to have other adults to listen to and learn from. As to a male influence, homeschooling helps the most with that. Hubby is a firefighter and we have a computer repair business. Both professions allow for lots of time for DH to spend time with the kids. I think anyone needs to be aware that generalizations are never good.

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The problems with this statement is that 1)He offers no evidence that sending kids away to school solves his proposed problems and 2)He doesn't explain what is so wrong with some of his objections.

 

The idea that homeschooling makes you so tired you have no time to serve anyone else is laughable. If you don't homeschool, you're working full time. Talk about being too tired to do anything else. Lack of male role models? And how could anyone guarantee that if you send your boys off to school that he would get a male teacher, let alone a godly one?

 

Why is becoming the "exclusive repository of wisdom" a bad thing? I'm not saying I don't see the danger, I'm just saying he didn't back up his argument. If my kids were going to fall victim to having an "exclusive repositor of wisdom", better me than a stranger with a secular humanist worldview. Why does there need to be a common effort in training other people's children? He doesn't explain that one either. Again, not a bad thing, but the Bible makes it very clear that parents will be held accountable for training up THEIR OWN CHILDREN. Not other people's.

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I have known homeschool families like that. It's pretty sad really as the kids grow up self centred and unaware of the world around them. I don't see the first problem as being an issue here. I don't help at many of the places where my kids go so that they are with other adults sometimes. I do however make sure my home is always open to anyone and we have a lot of people come through here despite the fact that I am a bit of an introvert. I am constantly telling the kids that life will never be fulfilling if we don't pour love and time into the people around us. It has to be other centred not self centred. As for the male role models, my dh works oilfield so he's gone a lot but I have worked hard to make sure my kids (dd as well ds's) are spending time with good men in our community and church. I have actually had a trusted men in our church take my ds aside and deal with behaviour problems before. My kids have adults beyond me that they trust to talk to about their problems and that I know will direct them in a healthy way. That after all is supposed to be what a church family is for, not the school. Home schooling shouldn't change any of that.

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I wonder what he would say about the millions and millions of families who 'homeschooled' before school was institutionalized and mandatory? School as we know it is a relatively new invention, historically speaking. Didn't most of humanity learn alongside their parent (mother, since she was typically the one in the home)?

As for the serving aspect, we are able to serve MORE BECAUSE we hs. We learn about serving our brothers and sisters daily. We learn how to treat our friends, neighbors, grocery baggers, tellers, servers, ect. on a daily basis. We volunteer, we donate, make things for others, together, BECAUSE my kids are here with me and they see me doing it. We will be foster parents soon (Lord willing!) and my kids will get to experience hospitality DAILY and in a very real way. I'm happy to invite friends, neighbors, and family over for dinner, because I have the time to prepare. My kids all know that when we have guests, we make our home comfortable, they help me cook and welcome everyone. We make meals to take to new moms, sick friends, or people just going through a rough time. My children know the situations, help prepare the meal and go with me to deliver them.

 

As for the boys not getting enough 'manly influnce' by not going to school, that's hogwash. Most teachers are women. That leaves peers being their 'manly influence'. Um. No thank you. My children are JUST AS influenced by my dh, who works full time AND travels a lot, as they are by me. They enjoy the things he does, he's taught them a ton, and they admire and respect him just as much as they do me. Both my 4 and 7 year olds have male teachers in Sunday school, as well as female teachers. I have all girls (so far!) but they enjoy rough housing, rock climbing, rappelling, camping, fishing, sling shots, climbing trees, catching lizards, snakes, and bugs, 'ninja warrior' play (lol), and a myriad of other things typically associated with boys. Being with their introverted-could-read-and-crochet-all-day-long mom hasn't made them just like me. At all.

 

I'm sorry this pastor believes this. I sure wish he could see all of the amazing HS families I know. He would surely have a change of heart!

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I know plenty of people who are as described and there children attend traditional schools. He makes a poor argument and offers no proof that traditional schooling would yield a different result. In fact, for my family we find we now have the time to begin ministering outside of our home because we homeschool.

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I hate to say it - but the phenomenon he's criticizing does exist.

 

I recognize what he is talking about. I lived it, that's how I was homeschooled. I'm sorting out my own neurosis, but meanwhile my older brother is a completely self-centered, self-absorbed brat. Smart, yes definitely, but... there are more important things.

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I would roll my eyes and walk away. Maybe in certain denominations things like that are a problem, but I've not met any.

 

Actually, that letter was so harsh I wouldn't even bother responding. I wouldn't go to that church, I would walk away. I think he's got four fingers pointing back at himself, and I'm pretty darned conservative.

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Two initial thoughts on this...

 

First, I must be running in the wrong homeschooling circles.

 

And second... yeah, I guess I do homeschool to shelter my son. From subpar educational environments, emphasis on testing, constant peer pressure and distraction... you know, stuff like that.

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Guest inoubliable

I know you asked for reactions from conservative Christians, but I just have to say that it's stuff like this that's contributing to the rise of the Nones. The guy sounds like a loon.

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Weird. Of course the answer to his issues with homeschooling are the one room schoolhouse he is creating.

 

Another bizarre quote from the article:

 

Less obvious forms are the idolatry of the State and our societyĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s whole-hearted prostration to the Bitch Goddess Success. That god and goddess have bewitched and ensnared a great many Christian schools and tempt you and me constantly. One aspect of the idolatry of the State is an enforced docility, servility, and homogeneity in the students...

 

 

The bitch goddess success? Do some more math, kids. I want more bitch goddess success worship around here.

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Read the whole article/post/rant/whatever. My thoughts, (in no particular order):

 

There goes 5 minutes of my life I could have spent watching BBC.

 

I should kiss DH and thank him for hastening our escape from patriarchal pastors and all the *ahem* stuff they spew.

 

I am extra glad Academy is in our "official" school name.

 

DH is going to start worrying about me if I do not wipe the OM STARS SOMEONE IS AN INCREDIBLE IDIOT look off my face.

 

Even a kilted cupcake could not redeem that tripe.

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Guest inoubliable

 

The bitch goddess success? Do some more math, kids. I want more bitch goddess success worship around here.

 

 

I spit ginger ale all over my keyboard! If I only knew how to make a sampler...

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1. I disagree with the first "danger". Since I homeschool, my kids have 10-15 hours less time per week dedicated to school. This is because we don't have to spend time travelling back and forth to the school, and because my kids don't have any homework. That leaves a lot more free time to do other things. We have more time to interact with other people and other families compared to my public school neighbors. If I sent my children to school, that would eat up so much time that I think it would significantly limit my interaction with outside "recipients" and hospitality.

 

2. Though I doubt many homeschool parents consider themselves the "exclusive repository" of wisdom for their children's education, I think they often are the primary source. However, I look at that as a positive. When my kids were in public school, I wasn't paying much attention at all to their education and programs. I just blindly trusted in our "good" school district. Virtually all of the public school parents I know in my area do the same thing. After I had to withdraw my kids from the public school, I began researching and realizing how dreadful the academic, social, and spiritual programs and influences at the public school are. Dh and I continue to research and thoughtfully put together the very best curriculum we can, both from an academic and a Christian point of view. We can guard our kids from negative outside influences when they are young. Therefore, I see the fact that parents are taking responsibility for the education of their children as not only more effective academically but more beneficial for the children's lives in general.

 

3. Regarding the common effort in training the children of others, the statement should be taken in context of the original text on the blog. The author was referring to helping educate the children of the families in his church who are not able to homeschool. The author and others are in the process of starting their own Christian school which will theoretically help to train the children of the others in their church. Without that context, the statement is absurd. A few times in my life I have offered advice to help in the training of other people's children, and that advice was met with severe wrath from the kids' parents. I try to never be involved with the training of other people's children if I can avoid it.

 

4. In general, fathers are least involved with their children in a public or private school situation. Homeschool allows the children to be at home most hours of the week and potentially able to interact with their fathers for longer amounts of time. My dh and I plan the curriculum together, and he does the majority of the teaching on the day of the week that he is off work. He would have significantly less time with our kids if we sent them to a school.

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I think there are pitfalls to homeschooling, but I'm not sure he hit on the ones that are mainstream. I think he hit on ones that are extreme and apply to only a small subset of society.

 

If my children went to a public or private school, they would see less of their father, not more. I fail to see how they would be better discipled in that case. With his disability, homeschooling allows them to spend time with him when he's able, which may not necessarily be during the hours after traditional school. So, the issue with Dad discipling his sons and daughters is not simply a matter of school preference.

 

One thing that I find very curious is the idea that mom's time should be spent in all kinds of ministries, and that if she is not involved in those things, homeschool must somehow be an idol. There are seasons for everything, and I think young moms, whatever method of schooling they choose, need to be careful not to spread themselves too thin.

 

The mom has a responsibility before God to disciple her children. That should include showing hospitality, reaching out to the poor, helping others, as a normal course of life. It does not necessarily mean being involved in all kinds of "programs." Programs do not necessarily mean "ministry." I think we should each use our gifts and abilities that God has given us, but there are so many "activities" that pull families apart, and that's not always healthy.

 

Families can have all kinds of involvement in helping others without being in some kind of formal program though. Visiting the sick or elderly, raking leaves for neighbors, taking a meal to someone who is sick or who has had a new baby, helping out at a food pantry or homeless shelter, various kinds of volunteer work to help others (shoveling walks, caring for young children, meeting other physical needs)--all of these kinds of things are being the hands and feet of Jesus and require no involvement in an official "program."

 

I do think homeschooling can become an idol, and that pride can be a stumbling block (as it can in any area of life). It would have been much more helpful if he had found real, closer-to-home types of examples of these pitfalls (and then instruction that would be helpful in counteracting such pitfalls). Instead, it basically sounds like he has some kind of personal vendetta against homeschooling. Perhaps he doesn't want to homeschool (or his wife doesn't), and there is either real or perceived pressure that those who homeschool are somehow better parents or more holy, and his arguments are a backlash against that. Or maybe in his area, these things are more of an issue for more families. It may be that the programs in his church are understaffed and he blames it on homeschooling instead of considering whether those programs are really the work that God would have his congregants doing.

 

Merry :-)

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One thing that I find very curious is the idea that mom's time should be spent in all kinds of ministries, and that if she is not involved in those things, homeschool must somehow be an idol. There are seasons for everything, and I think young moms, whatever method of schooling they choose, need to be careful not to spread themselves too thin.

 

The mom has a responsibility before God to disciple her children. That should include showing hospitality, reaching out to the poor, helping others, as a normal course of life. It does not necessarily mean being involved in all kinds of "programs." Programs do not necessarily mean "ministry." I think we should each use our gifts and abilities that God has given us, but there are so many "activities" that pull families apart, and that's not always healthy.

 

Families can have all kinds of involvement in helping others without being in some kind of formal program though. Visiting the sick or elderly, raking leaves for neighbors, taking a meal to someone who is sick or who has had a new baby, helping out at a food pantry or homeless shelter, various kinds of volunteer work to help others (shoveling walks, caring for young children, meeting other physical needs)--all of these kinds of things are being the hands and feet of Jesus and require no involvement in an official "program."

 

Merry :-)

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: Can't post enough of them! I typed deleted retyped and deleted a similar comment. You have no idea how happy I am to read your comment. Hits very close to home for us as we are looking for a new church home b/c of issues related to your post.

 

ETA: And who deserves to be harangued for not serving others more than homeschool moms? We're such a selfish lot. Imagine my surprise to hear just such a sermon on Mother's Day last year.

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In Fortress Home School, the mother contends with her older boys. No matter who prevails, this contest has no winners. The mother risks overpowering her son or ending every day in frustration and bitterness."

 

 

I don't think this is necessary. I think it's a mom's job to respect her son as a person and to work with him, rather than become his antagonist. She needs to recognize that he is growing up, and that he has a God-given desire to become a man and a leader--she can't treat him the same way that she treated him when he was 4, 8, or 12. Dad plays a big part in whether son respects mom as well. The way dad treats mom and disciples his son is of critical importance. But mom certainly can homeschool a son through high school, and they can come out with a good relationship.

 

That's not to say there won't be struggles, or that there won't be times when a different schooling method should be considered--and parents who stubbornly don't consider options certainly could fall into such a pitfall.

 

On the other hand...I know moms who have public or private schooled sons who have the same issues of contention in the home. Again...the method of schooling isn't the issue. The heart of the issue has more to do with the climate in the home as well as the personalities of the parents and child, as well as extenuating circumstances that are sometimes out of everyone's control. When contention exists in a home, it's wise to look at many factors. This broad-stroke kind of statement paints an inaccurate--and unhelpful picture.

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The OP has only 10 posts. The only reason this was posted was to rile us up. Don't fall for it! This is silly, silly, silly.

 

Troll.

 

 

Yep, I need to repeat the above over and over.

 

Definitely got me riled--hit too close to home b/c we've been getting some of this irl.

 

But, you are right, it's silly in the extreme, which is why I deleted most of my serious responses and am now considering Fortress Homeschool as our official school name!

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I think it's not particularly helpful to take a whole group of people, lump them together, and make sweeping generalizations as to what they should do.

 

If a pastor, or any Christian friend, wants to really be helpful, he should encourage specific homeschoolers he knows, get involved in their lives, and point out when he sees particular weaknesses, and offer to help.

 

That's why growth groups/small groups are important for church goers. Rather than taking in sweeping generalizations, people can really get to intimately get to know one another, and that's where real growth and change occurs.

 

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Personally would have preferred the "*** goddess" quote in the OP. That would have provided the quickest way for me to categorize this accurately and so avoid wasting time on it.

 

Technically, he used the term incorrectly. MW has a nice definition. It means ": success; especially : material or worldly success". Adding success to the end of the word makes it redundant. According to MW, it was used first in 1909.

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Did y'all read the comments? One lady has some serious issues. Here is one particularly interesting comment she made:

 

 

"ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s all the rage to follow the narrow path outlined in the homeschool bible, a.k.a The Well-Trained Mind, while the real Bible collects dust. This homeschool bible is too tolerant to mention incorporating Christ into education, yet scores of Christian families cower under its unreasonable requirements.

But it isnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t only this book, itĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s a whole movement. When Brian mentioned Ă¢â‚¬Å“prostration to the Bitch Goddess Success,Ă¢â‚¬ it made me think what a great subtitle that is for much of Classical Christian education.They insist our kids arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t educated unless they know Latin by 3rd grade, Greek by 5th. They should know the Iliad and the Odyssey backward and forward and have read all of ShakespeareĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s plays by a minimum of 4th grade or how dare you call them educated.

I feel that a whole generation of homeschooling families need to repent of offering up their children the idol of educational pride. No, your home school canĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t be everything the new classical says it must, and show hospitality as well. There arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t enough hours in the day."

 

 

I think we found the subtitle to the next edition of the WTM. :D

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The OP has only 10 posts. The only reason this was posted was to rile us up. Don't fall for it! This is silly, silly, silly.

 

Troll.

 

Yes, and if I'm remembering correctly, another post by this same member got everyone riled up, as well, and they never came back to that thread....

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Sadly, I know too many Pastors that fit the 'stereotype' of this guy and none of the homeschooler 'stereotype' that he sets forth. Legalistic - 'If I don't approve of the ministry then it doesn't count.

 

As far as the comments? I think that's hysterical. I love The Well Trained Mind but I do not think knowing Latin or not knowing Latin is the make or break for my kids. :laugh:

 

I'm all about being the b@tch goddess though.... Love that. DH does too.

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"The conservative Christian, however, tends to be more captivated by the Sirens over yonder, on the other side of the trail. He wanders off that way to avoid the Government School and Mainstream Christian Schools along with their pitfalls and spiritual landmines and lameness, but he fails to regard the traps concealed in the Home School. (He forgets that hearts deceitful above all things and desperately wicked populate the home as well as McKinley Elementary School.) The most significant trap is as big as the broad side of a barn. Much bigger actually. ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s Fortress Home School. The idolatry of the Fortress is more difficult to identify because Hugh Heffner and Big Brother arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t superintending the classrooms. Mom is the superintendent, and she bakes apple pies and chocolate chip cookies. And she happens to be very beautiful.

 

 

 

What I think is that I would never take advice on my children's education from someone who randomly capitalizes terms that are not proper nouns.

 

Terri

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