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About ready to throw in the towel. (teaching writing)


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My 10yo is not a writer. She was a late reader, so maybe it stands to reason that writing will be delayed as well. We have tried WWE and IEW. Both were met with tears. She can do copywork fine, but the narration in WWE was difficult for her. With IEW, she can make the KWO but then can't use the key words to make a sentnece. She doesn't write in complete senences and doesn't consistently remember to capitalize the first letter of a sentence or put punctuation at the end.

 

Any suggestions?

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I don't have time to write a bunch right now, but I've been there. Adjusting writing expectations because of delayed reading ability is hard. We did use multiple sources, WWE 3 being the most productive. We never tried IEW. He's almost done with WWS I now.

 

I'll post some of the things we did, which included a two week custom writing intensive last year. Frustration was running very high in both of us and we needed to find some peace about it. I'll be back later.

 

Are you using a grammar program?

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I don't have time to write a bunch right now, but I've been there. Adjusting writing expectations because of delayed reading ability is hard. We did use multiple sources, WWE 3 being the most productive. We never tried IEW. He's almost done with WWS I now.

 

I'll post some of the things we did, which included a two week custom writing intensive last year. Frustration was running very high in both of us and we needed to find some peace about it. I'll be back later.

 

Are you using a grammar program?

 

 

 

I would love to hear about your "custom writing intensive!" Please do come back when you have time.

 

We have not done a grammar program. I tried FLL3 several months ago, but either she was not ready for it or it was not right for her. I just last night printed grade 5 of the Scott Foresman workbook, grammar portions only, not the writing portions. Do you think that will suffice?

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You might want to check out Writing Tales 1 or 2. It's been a while since I used 1 so it might be too "young" but WT2 might fit the bill. After that you could go into CW Homer, which is my plan for my ds10 who's just finishing up WT2. I'd like to put him in WWS but he's just not there yet.

 

 

 

I'll check into it. I have CW Aesop and can't honestly remember why I'm not using it. :o Do you like WT better than CW Aesop?

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I'll check into it. I have CW Aesop and can't honestly remember why I'm not using it. :o Do you like WT better than CW Aesop?

 

 

I didn't use WT with my dd, who went from WWE4 to WWS, so I have no experience with CW Aesop. I don't think ds is ready for WWS (does anyone else find that challenging??!!) so that's why he'll go to Homer after WT2. CW is much more like WT anyway, and since he's doing well with WT I think he'll do well with CW (crossing fingers!!)

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I didn't use WT with my dd, who went from WWE4 to WWS, so I have no experience with CW Aesop. I don't think ds is ready for WWS (does anyone else find that challenging??!!) so that's why he'll go to Homer after WT2. CW is much more like WT anyway, and since he's doing well with WT I think he'll do well with CW (crossing fingers!!)

 

 

 

Thank you for your input. I like the looks of the samples.

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I only have an Ipad to type on right now and I find it very annoying, so here is an abbreviated version of my thoughts.

 

I have had 2 kids that were very late writers. One was a very late reader and the other just really struggled learning the writing process. Learning the writing process via step by step breakdowns really helped them understand the "hows" of writing. My struggling writer finally understood how to express complete written ideas through "how to" paragraphs. Literally, she wrote them on every topic I could think of.......(how to make your bed, how to bake cookies, how to load a dishwasher......etc. Correct sequence has to be followed, all steps need to be included, etc or the paragraph won't make sense. Since they are sequenced actions, you can make them follow the steps to see if their instructions actually make sense or what did they leave out or put in the wrong order.)

 

I have a general description of the process that I have used with my kids in this thread (it is in 2 sequential posts.) http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/239259-bringing-karens-mention-of-essay-writing-to-a-new-thread/#entry2363522

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Well CW can be difficult to figure out. We did that before WWE 3 and actually got better results, now that I think about it. CW would also cover the grammar you need. Do you have the workbooks and core book? Aesop did well for us, Homer didn't work so well, partially my fault, partially the way he learns.

 

One thing I had to do was remove any illusion about time frame on writing. We spread out some assignment over double the amount of time recommended. I also worked alongside him at every step.

 

My writing intensive took his problem areas and broke them down. I focused on words, sentences, and paragraphs. We rewrote some Shakespearean sonnets together, we discussed what quality words were. We read through The Gettysburg Address and discussed the power of the words. We discussed the absurdity of the English language, we looked at meanings of words, puns, anything funny about writing and English.

 

Then we read a few simple books together and he would write a narration at the end. Sometimes he would dictate the narration and copy it. We read The Tale of the Mandarin Ducks, mainly because I owned it, it had great pictures to help with the story, and he's fascinated with Japan.

 

We also read Stuart Little by EB White. White has such a way with words, his adjectives and verbs just sing. I would read to him a chapter a day, stopping to point out those descriptive adjectives and vivid verbs. He would narrate to me or copy it. By the end of the book, he had a nice narration.

 

We also did some Mad LIbs which are great for grammar. We also looked at different ways to write down information. My ds is pretty right-brained and outlines are just not the way he thinks. He does better with other graphic organizers. I showed him how to do a couple, simple to give him more options.

 

My whole point was to remove some of the frustration and add some fun to words and writing. It sparked an interest in linguistics itself, something he is possibly considered studying in college.

 

Most grammar books have not helped him. We've used Easy Grammar, Rod & Staff, CW, Latin and some freebies online. This year we're using KISS grammar. I like that you're using real sentences, not simple constructs to learn grammar. It's challenging (we're using the 6th grade book), but I feel like we're actually studying grammar. Other programs I considered were MCT and Kilgallon, but free won out, so we use KISS.

 

If you've ruled out learning disabilities and basic non-compliance, I would continue to move forward, even though it feels like a snails pace. I would also recommend SWB's lecture "A plan for teaching writing". I bought elementary, middle, and high school. It gave me a vision for her philosophy and where books like WWE and WWS were leading to.

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I only have an Ipad to type on right now and I find it very annoying, so here is an abbreviated version of my thoughts.

 

I have had 2 kids that were very late writers. One was a very late reader and the other just really struggled learning the writing process. Learning the writing process via step by step breakdowns really helped them understand the "hows" of writing. My struggling writer finally understood how to express complete written ideas through "how to" paragraphs. Literally, she wrote them on every topic I could think of.......(how to make your bed, how to bake cookies, how to load a dishwasher......etc. Correct sequence has to be followed, all steps need to be included, etc or the paragraph won't make sense. Since they are sequenced actions, you can make them follow the steps to see if their instructions actually make sense or what did they leave out or put in the wrong order.)

 

I have a general description of the process that I have used with my kids in this thread (it is in 2 sequential posts.) http://forums.welltr...d/#entry2363522

 

Thank you for linking your old post! I printed it so I can refer back to it. I love the idea of having her write a how-to. I think that may be an upcoming assignment.

 

Well CW can be difficult to figure out. We did that before WWE 3 and actually got better results, now that I think about it. CW would also cover the grammar you need. Do you have the workbooks and core book? Aesop did well for us, Homer didn't work so well, partially my fault, partially the way he learns.

 

One thing I had to do was remove any illusion about time frame on writing. We spread out some assignment over double the amount of time recommended. I also worked alongside him at every step.

 

My writing intensive took his problem areas and broke them down. I focused on words, sentences, and paragraphs. We rewrote some Shakespearean sonnets together, we discussed what quality words were. We read through The Gettysburg Address and discussed the power of the words. We discussed the absurdity of the English language, we looked at meanings of words, puns, anything funny about writing and English.

 

Then we read a few simple books together and he would write a narration at the end. Sometimes he would dictate the narration and copy it. We read The Tale of the Mandarin Ducks, mainly because I owned it, it had great pictures to help with the story, and he's fascinated with Japan.

 

We also read Stuart Little by EB White. White has such a way with words, his adjectives and verbs just sing. I would read to him a chapter a day, stopping to point out those descriptive adjectives and vivid verbs. He would narrate to me or copy it. By the end of the book, he had a nice narration.

 

We also did some Mad LIbs which are great for grammar. We also looked at different ways to write down information. My ds is pretty right-brained and outlines are just not the way he thinks. He does better with other graphic organizers. I showed him how to do a couple, simple to give him more options.

 

My whole point was to remove some of the frustration and add some fun to words and writing. It sparked an interest in linguistics itself, something he is possibly considered studying in college.

 

Most grammar books have not helped him. We've used Easy Grammar, Rod & Staff, CW, Latin and some freebies online. This year we're using KISS grammar. I like that you're using real sentences, not simple constructs to learn grammar. It's challenging (we're using the 6th grade book), but I feel like we're actually studying grammar. Other programs I considered were MCT and Kilgallon, but free won out, so we use KISS.

 

If you've ruled out learning disabilities and basic non-compliance, I would continue to move forward, even though it feels like a snails pace. I would also recommend SWB's lecture "A plan for teaching writing". I bought elementary, middle, and high school. It gave me a vision for her philosophy and where books like WWE and WWS were leading to.

 

Thank you for taking the time to type this out. I do have the CW Aesop core book and workbooks. I may give it another try but I'm worried about what will happen when we get to Homer. In addition to homeschooling, I work full time and have younger children. I don't have a lot of time for lesson planning. I have WWE 2, so I might give that another try. Maybe she really does need more time at the narration/dictation stage. Mad Libs are a good idea. I remember those being so fun when I was a kid! Haven't seen them anywhere lately but I'm sure Amazon has them. I guess I just need to decide if I want to try CW or WWE again and go from there. I also have IEW but she hates, hates, HATES it. Thinking of getting my money back on that one.

 

Thank you both for taking the time to respond and share your thoughts with me. I appreciate it very much.

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You might want to check out Writing Tales 1 or 2. It's been a while since I used 1 so it might be too "young" but WT2 might fit the bill. After that you could go into CW Homer, which is my plan for my ds10 who's just finishing up WT2. I'd like to put him in WWS but he's just not there yet.

 

Does WT2 cover outlining at all? I didn't find it in the online scope and sequence.

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I wouldn't focus on teaching her to write.

 

I'm thinking maybe it would just be better to do something like R&S's English, probably Beginning Wisely (3rd grade) and have her do all the written work. (You'll want to read the directions for each assignment carefully to make sure she's only writing what needs to be written; IOW, the instructions might be to write just the subject of each sentence, not the whole sentence.) This way she'll have the practice of actually putting her pencil to paper; she won't have to come up with topics to write about; she'll be learning to use capital letters and end punctuation properly without having to figure it out on her own; and she'll actually be learning...how to write. And there is a variety of topics in the book, too, so that she won't feel like she's always Having To Write.

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I wouldn't focus on teaching her to write.

 

I'm thinking maybe it would just be better to do something like R&S's English, probably Beginning Wisely (3rd grade) and have her do all the written work. (You'll want to read the directions for each assignment carefully to make sure she's only writing what needs to be written; IOW, the instructions might be to write just the subject of each sentence, not the whole sentence.) This way she'll have the practice of actually putting her pencil to paper; she won't have to come up with topics to write about; she'll be learning to use capital letters and end punctuation properly without having to figure it out on her own; and she'll actually be learning...how to write. And there is a variety of topics in the book, too, so that she won't feel like she's always Having To Write.

 

I agree with Ellie and Susan in TX (only I couldn't figure out how to use the multiquote thingy.) My kids are learning writing skills through their language arts program. I also give them the opportunity to do free writing a couple of times a week which they really enjoy. My 8, 10, and 12 year olds all have a story in progress but it is a free choice story, not something that is a set topic with structure. This allows them to apply the skills they have learned while choosing their own content. It works for us.

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