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Classical Conversations Challange A? Or something else? Thoughts.


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DS is in 5th this year, but in exactly one year I will have to determine which way he's going to go for middle school. I like several aspects of CC Challenge, and dislike others. CC is like a boxed curriculum, but with a tutor (though I dislike working on another person's schedule). Essentials moved quickly and I found myself annoyed by having to rush. I also have a strange problem with turning assignments in to someone. I am a control freak. I want to have those Socratic discussions with my son, but I do see the value of having them with the group, too. I'm annoyed by him having to be in class all day. DS is one those people who may never love a classroom. I see him starting his own business and being out in the world versus being in a cubicle all day long. I love the dual enrollment option of the higher Challenge levels, as well as the accreditation.

 

I am rambling. What are my other options for classical middle school? I am very attracted to the Great Books curriculum, but would have to add Latin. I have pieced together elementary with no problem, but middle and high school is some serious business.

 

Someone with clearer thoughts than I have please respond.

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Online classes? I opted for these over CC because I can choose exactly which classes each of my students take each year and which instructors they have. I think, at the higher levels, it is especially helpful to have instructors who are passionate about their subject and who are experienced at teaching that subject.

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I second online classes. I had my son take a TOG online class this year and while it would be better to have face to face interaction, it is the next best thing. He'll be taking two next year. This way, I get to pick the teachers who are better at teaching a certain subject. I can also farm out the subjects that I can't teach as well and keep my ds on an individualized education plan. It sounds as if you wouldn't like giving up the control over your child's education. It seems as if the people who really like the Challenge classes are more willing to give control to another entity. Online classes may be better for you since you can give up control in the areas you decide. There are a lot of options available - Potter;s school, Veritas Press, Laundry Academy, Memoria Press, to name a few.

 

I had considered doing Challenge this past year, but knew that some of the subjects they were teaching were below his level of learning, but the next level up had other subjects that were too advanced for him. You'll find it's an age segregated classroom deal where everyone is taught the same thing regardless of ability (unless you have many challenge classes and they let your child sit in at different levels - like math for instance). I figure that if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I may as well get what I consider to be a superior product which for us at this time is online classes. If on the other hand, you want "socialization" and face to face discussions, online classes won't fit your goals.

 

Beth

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Under those circumstances, I think you'd be unhappy with Challenge A. A lot can change in a year though, so it is worth thinking about. In my experience, those who are happiest with Challenge are those who take it as a package, as-is. If you start subtracting and adding too much, it doesn't work as well. I really like the subjects in Challenge A though, and we have a top-notch tutor.

 

One of mine did through Challenge I, and I have no regrets about that because it fit our schedule and priorities at the time, but doing a few online classes and a few home-taught has worked better of late. Next year if it works out, one will do local classes for 1/2 a day (not CC) with online Latin, and one will do three online. The rest will be mom-taught.

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I would love for my daughter to do an online Latin class next year using Henle Latin. She did the first one part this year, but the drive is too far for us to continue. Does anyone have any recommendations for me?

 

Also, has anyone done any type of online math tutoring? This would be something I would be VERY interested in for her.

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In regards to the Challenge Program . . . I do think you're right: Challenge is like a boxed curriculum, but with a tutor. Interestingly enough, I had never thought of it that way -- and I have tutored both Challenge A and Challenge B! This is our 6th year of Classical Conversations. I currently have kids in Challenge A, Essentials and foundations. The Challenge tutors really are supposed to partner with both the students and the parents. There is a set curriculum with an assignment schedule, however parents are able to tweak/make changes as they see fit. Parents definitely stay in control of the assignments because they remain the teachers! My son's challenge tutor does not collect assignments -- parents keep track of their children's work. However, students do share their reports and read/critique assigned essays. The tutor work presents material in class and teaches the lessons, but the parents are the ones who have to continue the work at home.

 

CC really tries to emphasize that parents CAN homeschool their children through high school, but recognizes that many parents feel most overwhelmed when their children hit the logic and rhetoric stages. The tutor leads students through 6 seminars and then the parents work through the material with their children at home, but they have HELP from a tutor! Admittedly, it is a long day for the students, but they really do use their time wisely. Much is accomplished in those 6 hours! The assignment guide keeps parents informed about what is expected of the student, but it also outlines what the tutor is supposed to cover in class! I think many parents appreciate knowing that they are not working through some of these difficult subjects alone.

 

The discussions and special projects that are interwoven into the challenge levels provide middle schoolers and high schoolers an opportunity to discuss ideas, and argue, and spend more time with their peers. The challenge program was developed so that kids can have an opportunity to study alongside other cohorts and provide a positive, comfortable environment for students to discuss the big ideas that are interwoven into literature, history, current events, science, etc. I think the kids especially appreciate that part of the program! The friendships and support from like minded families is invaluable - IMO.

 

I must admit . . . many of the subjects do feel rushed -- and that can be frustrating! That's when I have to step back and remind myself that it is not about getting the assignment done, it is about teaching a specific skill and working through things in order to LEARN! We do almost always get our assignments completed, but if something pops up in our week it becomes much more difficult! Ugh! I suppose the good part about the set schedule is that we constantly plug along. We certainly have not fallen behind on things this year, which has been a hidden blessing!

 

After you investigate further, you may discover that you'd happier with outside classes or following a self-paced program that guides you through some of the difficult subjects, such as Tapestry of Grace or Omnibus. But, while you are considering your options, I recommend that you attend a "Window into Challenge" meeting or a Classical Conversations Information meeting. Either of these "seminars" would inform you more about Classical Conversations and the vision of the program for the upper level students. It is very different that Foundations and Essentials. The goal of challenge is not to work though a four-year schedule of classes, but to teach kids *how* to think and to provide them with a skill set and knowledge base that will better equip them to affect their world in a positive way. You do not have to relinquish control of your child's homeschool journey if you participate in the Challenge Program, but you probably need to agree with some of the big components of the program and the overall vision.

 

Also: there are some very helpful audio clips about the program HERE: Challenge Program Overview I have listened to them on a few different occasions and have found them to be quite informative.

 

Best wishes!

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Yes, very good analogy -- "boxed curriculum with a tutor." If you want someone else to make the curriculum picks and drive the schedule, it very much fulfills that. I would add that it is also a classroom program, so you have the pluses of group work but not the individual pacing and focus in the tutor-led portion. To some extent the parent can customize, but not as much as if you were doing the subjects on your own or one-on-one with a tutor.

 

I haven't used them, but both Memoria Press and Latin and Classics offer Henle online.

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Thank you all for the feedback. I think Challenge is low on our list at this point. The responses have helped to clarify my thoughts. I want to pick curriculum and drive the schedule. That is why Essentials makes us crazy. I am glad we did it for two years, though, as the grammar portion is fabulous and it made me realize what we want.

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I also recently sat in on a Challenge A class. This particular tutor's class management style doesn't align with mine, so Challenge is off the table for now.

 

 

This is really for those who look at this thread later, but yes, it is so important to observe the tutor. I live in an area with many CC campuses, and there are major differences in both the campus culture and the tutors. We had a year where the tutor's classroom management skills and overall expectations were lacking, and it affected everything. Even my motivated student got dragged down into it.

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This is really for those who look at this thread later, but yes, it is so important to observe the tutor. I live in an area with many CC campuses, and there are major differences in both the campus culture and the tutors. We had a year where the tutor's classroom management skills and overall expectations were lacking, and it affected everything. Even my motivated student got dragged down into it.

 

I sat in on a whim, and I'm glad I did. I made the incorrect assumption, before seeing a class, that the expectations regarding behavior at the Foundations level are carried through the Challenge level. We have a strict Foundations campus, which I have later found out is not always the case. Most of the people at our Foundations campus are there because those expectations align with theirs. I understand that Challenge A is different than Foundations, but I didn't realize how much. I would also much rather see a class size of 6, rather than up to 12.

 

The class atmosphere, combined with my previous concerns about choosing the curriculum and schedule, cemented my decision. They just don't work for us at this time.

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I sat in on a whim, and I'm glad I did. I made the incorrect assumption, before seeing a class, that the expectations regarding behavior at the Foundations level are carried through the Challenge level. We have a strict Foundations campus, which I have later found out is not always the case. Most of the people at our Foundations campus are there because those expectations align with theirs. I understand that Challenge A is different than Foundations, but I didn't realize how much. I would also much rather see a class size of 6, rather than up to 12.

 

The class atmosphere, combined with my previous concerns about choosing the curriculum and schedule, cemented my decision. They just don't work for us at this time.

 

Yes, it will be different for different people. A friend of mine had a kid in the same Challenge class that I was unhappy with, and she was fine with what was going on. So I held my thoughts after awhile and let it go.

 

I also found that the atmosphere of Challenge changed significantly. I've never met the parents of some of my kid's peers in class, and the majority of the Challenge families didn't come up through Foundations/Essentials. The majority of parents never sit in class at all during the year, and most look at it as a drop-off program that they don't need to be involved with. Sometimes people coming from Foundations/Essentials feel the void. I know I did.

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